by frog
Last night Parliament voted overwhelmingly to amend a whole range of provisions in the Criminal Procedures Act. Like far too many of Labour’s bills it was packed full of a great deal of different issues, limiting Parliament’s ability to pick the good and reject the bad. Most notably these amendments included a change that allows juries to find people guilty with only 11 of the 12 jurors in agreement rather than by an unanimous decision, and amendments to provisions around double jeopardy legislation.
Both of these are longstanding legal traditions that have come under scrutiny in recent years as people have become increasingly demanding for quicker and tougher guilty verdicts from a court system often seen as too concerned for the rights of the accused.
The Greens voted against the legislation along with the Maori Party and independent MP, Taito Philip Field. Some who are fans of the play (and movie) 12 Angry Men, may have a few misgivings about Parliament’s decision last night.
Published in Justice & Democracy | Parliament | Video by frog on Fri, June 20th, 2008
Tags: 12 Angry men, accused, courts, crime, criminal procedures, double jeopardy, Frog, frogblog, green party, greens, hung jury, new zealand
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
frog said: The Greens voted against the legislation along with the Maori Party and independent MP, Taito Philip Field.
Well, I’m not totally confident that Taito Philip Field’s motivation for his vote was totally altruistic, given the criminal charges he is himself facing – maybe a fair weather friend.
But it is appalling that the Labour and National Parties would compromise the principle of “beyond reasonable doubt” by allowing majority verdicts. If one juror has reservations, then there is reasonable doubt.
Sure, Joh Bjelke-Petersen, the late and corrupt Queensland Premier, bought his jury. But still better for 100 guilty people to go free than for one innocent one to be convicted.
A plague on all your houses, Nats, Labs and those misfits who voted for this Bill – “beyond reasonable doubt” should mean that no juror has reasonable doubt, not just 11 of the 12. If the twelfth one has reasonable doubt, then ther is reasonable doubt.
If the jury is proven to be unlawfully influenced, (as, it should have been in the Bjelke-Peterson trial) then that is grounds for setting aside a verdict.
But the law passed last night is a very, very bad look for individual rights and protection from persecution by the State.
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Yeah yeah, I know this post if off topic but given that Toad assures me my posts will not be censored I thought I would produce this little gem that I stole from Kiwiblog.
WHY I’M VOTING LABOUR
I’m voting Labour because being part of a collective gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling all over. Yes, we’re all individuals.
I’m voting Labour because common sense and the most basic of intelligence tells me Communism will never work regardless of how many different ways and times you try it, and will actually cause more harm than good.
I’m voting Labour because true Communism has never been tried, and all it needs is another 70 years and 120 million deaths for it to work.
I’m voting Labour because New Zealand is run by the Business Round Table.
I’m voting Labour because businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.
I’m voting Labour because big corporations (powerful entities with lots of money made from selling people goods and services they want to buy), can’t be trusted; but Big Government (a powerful entity with lots of money robbed at gunpoint from its rightful owners), can be.
I’m voting Labour because I need to be told what is good and bad for me.
I’m voting Labour because I can’t think for myself.
I’m voting Labour because rich people should be told just how “fair? their fair share really is, without ever defining what “rich? is (thus leaving the door open to the state-sponsored plunder of as many people as possible).
I’m voting Labour because thinking for myself is redundant when a politician or bureaucrat with a sociology degree has the best handle on what’s good for me, how to spend my money, how to educate my children etc.
I’m voting Labour because I believe the government should be able to take the property and income I’ve worked for, and give it to someone else who refuses to work or save.
I’m voting Labour because I don’t pay enough tax.
I’m voting Labour because I want more radical-left judicial appointments.
I’m voting Labour because I care about the real victims of crime — criminals.
I’m voting Labour because everyone deserves crappy healthcare. Sure, you’ll have to wait years for that life-saving cancer surgery. But it’s first come, first served at the cemetery!
I’m voting Labour because motorists aren’t paying enough for petrol.
I’m voting Labour because if I don’t have enough money, the solution is for the government to take more of my money. After all, who needs money when petrol is $2.11 per litre?
I’m voting Labour because it looks like they’re going to hit “greedy? oil companies with windfall profits taxes, which means I get to pay even more for fuel.
I’m voting Labour because truth and justice are too judgmental.
I’m voting Labour because one day, I will be a victim too.
I’m voting Labour because I don’t understand human nature or economics, and I don’t want to.
I’m voting Labour because that I believe that two people can live off one another indefinitely without working.
I’m voting Labour because I love that warm glow associated with the redistribution of other people’s money.
I’m voting Labour because I feel guilty for having always worked hard. Now I want to give everything to some worthless slot who went out and got pregnant at age 15 so she could stop going to school and live off other people for the rest of her life.
I’m voting Labour because paying more than 50 percent of my income in combined taxes is not enough and I want to subsidise more illegal immigrants and hip hop tours.
I’m voting Labour because I cannot be successful without the government taking care of me.
I’m voting Labour because I hate having to make decisions for myself.
I’m voting Labour because I’d prefer to live in a state house.
I’m voting Labour because I am tired of working for a living. I want a benefit.
I’m voting Labour because I ‘m entitled to everyone else’s success, no matter how much harder they worked or how much more risk they took.
I’m voting Labour because I want one of those free converter boxes I keep hearing about for my TV. I hope it works on the new 65″ flat screen that I bought with the rich honky tonks’ tax money. Lord knows I deserve it for raising all these children on my own.
I’m voting Labour because I want smart people who worked hard all their life to pay for my bad choices and self-inflicted shortcomings.
I’m voting Labour because I am a victim of every earthly affliction.
I’m voting Labour because CO2 emissions must be drastically reduced to save our planet, even if our living standards revert to those prevailing in the Dark Ages.
I’m voting Labour because I believe we need other countries’ permission for me to use my heater or drive an SUV.
I’m voting Labour because hunters and fisherman don’t care about the environment, but loony activists who’ve never set foot outside the faculty lounge and Starbucks do.
I’m voting Labour because any person who flushes his travel documents on the plane should get massive legal aid to stay in New Zealand, bring out their whole family, and go on the dole.
I’m voting Labour because I believe making peace signs at people whose declared intention is to kill me will make them go away.
I’m voting Labour because I want the United Nations to govern my country.
I’m voting Labour because I was thinking about converting to Islam anyway.
I’m voting Labour because one day I want to press #4 for English.
I’m voting Labour because all this white guilt is killing me.
I’m voting Labour because the Treaty of Waitangi is a “living document? requiring periodic editing from unelected activist judges.
I’m voting Labour because the real cure for racism is hate speech laws and preferential policies based on race.
I’m voting Labour because young Kiwis should be brainwashed at school instead of learning dumb stuff like Maths and English.
I’m voting Labour because I’d rather everybody was illiterate and ignorant and never questioned anything the government does as long as Nanny State guarantees that I can live off other people for the rest of my life.
I’m voting Labour because I don’t like the English language and prefer being forced to learn Maori.
I’m voting Labour because after 17 years in higher education I realise an inflated and unjustified sense of self-esteem is more important than teaching kids to read, write, or critically analyse anything.
I’m voting Labour because Maori and Polynesian students with inferior Bursary results deserve preferential admission to limited entry university courses.
I’m voting Labour because competitive examinations are racist, but racial quotas aren’t.
I’m voting Labour because I enjoy being humiliated and told my beliefs are no longer welcomed in this “enlightened? society.
I’m voting Labour because the only hate speech I approve of is against white people.
I’m voting Labour because, as a European New Zealander, I accept the blame for all the problems, failings and personal inadequacies of anyone with a brown skin.
I’m voting Labour because Pakeha racism is responsible for Maori pathology, even though we don’t put a gun to Maori heads and make them sleep around at age 12, give birth to underweight premature babies in their teens, drink, smoke and take drugs, drop out of high school, beat their children to death, or commit crimes that send them to jail.
I’m voting Labour because I am against the death penalty for known murderers, but in favour of abortion-on-demand of unborn innocents.
I’m voting Labour because it’s my body, and if I want to kill my baby, I’ll do it, even if its head is in the birth canal.
I’m voting Labour because foetal parasites are the true enemy of the state.
I’m voting Labour because Sue Bradford and Cindy Kiro care more about children than their parents do.
I’m voting Labour because the same teacher who can’t teach five year olds how to read is somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
I’m voting Labour because gender roles are artificial, but homosexuality is natural.
I’m voting Labour because the institution of marriage should be expanded to include people of the same sex, multiple partners, and even animals.
I’m voting Labour because the ideal family is two homosexual bonobos, a goat and a parrot raising a human baby. Love and compassion is all it takes to make a successful family.
I’m voting Labour because I want to marry my cat. We love each other. I can’t visit him at the vet when he’s sick. It’s not fair. I’m entitled to his tinkle ball and his litter tray when he passes too.
I’m voting Labour because gay pride parades celebrating cross-dressing, sodomy, and bestiality are “legitimate forms of self-expression? but manger scenes and Christmas Carols should be removed from the public square lest they offend non-Christians.
I’m voting Labour because I enjoy reach-arounds from Chris Carter and Tim Barnett.
I’m voting Labour because thinking is much harder than feeling.
I’m voting Labour because I hate freedom.
I’m voting Labour because my feminist girlfriend said she’d dump me if I didn’t.
I’m voting Labour because family values are important. I love my Big Sister, Auntie Helen.
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I think we have two fundamental responses to violent crime anger and rose coloured spectacles (bleeding heart…… Green Party default reaction). It’s a matter of weighing up both sides. Y’ gotta remember that some people are excited by sadistic violence. One man in Bishopdale answered a knock on the door to be slaughtered by a machete. The guy “wanted to know what it felt like” (better to give than to receive as the good book says). His widow never went back in the house and my friend got a bargain when he bought it.
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BB – your “Why I’m Voting Labour” post above has got to be the best reasoning I’ve seen yet to vote Green! Well done!
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Except, BB, for this one:
“I’m voting Labour because gender roles are artificial, but homosexuality is natural.”
which is true.
But still no reason to vote Labour – Green is a better option, taking all into account.
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Can we watch the whole of that movie Frog. There’s nothing on TV
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You want that guy to be able to hold-out out and prevent a proper acquittal that everyone else agreed was just?
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Yay for the Green Party, nice to have something entirely positive to say in their direction.
The removal of the protection against double jeopardy is really bad.
In the process of the state bringing a defendant to trial, the state hold all the cards. They decide if to prosecute, and if so, who they prosecute, when to prosecute, and what charges to lay. The state has (in effect) a limitless resource pool with which to investigate.
When a prosecution fails it is always the fault of the prosecution.
In my ideal world, the trial process is almost a rubber stamping exercise. If someone is taken to trial, then the prosecution has evidence beyond reasonable doubt that will lead to a conviction.
In the real world, many trials are not like that. There are no official numbers to back it up, but unofficial numbers do pop up from time to time, such that if the chances of a prosecution of succeeding are better than 50/50, then they’ll go to trial.
The existing double jeopardy rules act partly (though not entirely effectively) as a safety valve; the prosecution are required to make a judgement call. Do they go early with incomplete evidence and hope for a sympathetic jury, or hold off and hope for better evidence.
All to often they opt for the first path, and thus you get aquittals, and when it happens in high profile cases, theres public disappointment.
Unfortunately, no-one seems to be held accountable for poor prosecutorial decisions.
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So with the new poll out the Greens are slowly but surely increasing the %
We should be over 10% by November
(for a rolling poll avg visit)
http://www.nelsongreens.org.nz/election08.html
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BigBro,
a little heavy on the irony Bro – I beginning to believe you will vote for the bastards !
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i knew they were talking about removing the jury unanimity requirement a few years back, but what about removing the double-jeopardy prohibition? has this just entered consideration after the recent couple of high-profile murder acquittals? if so that is a terrible knee-jerk reaction, or maybe a gift to a government which would have liked a propitious moment to remove a few more of our rights
from this angle it seems that the police felt under pressure to bring prosecutions even though they must have known they couldn’t reasonably hope for a conviction.
there’s worse: “the legislation allows for judge-only trials in cases that are likely to be long and complex.”
where was the public discussion of this? as i noted, i remember the idea of changing the jury unanimity rule some years ago, & had assumed the issue had gone away. then i wake up & find it is a done deal. who is at fault here? the government for not having adequate consultation? the media for not keeping the issue alive? the public, including me, for not having organized as soon as the issue was raised & staying organized & informed?
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I have believed for some years that ‘western democracies’ have a joint hidden agenda possibly driven by ‘the bilderberg group’ that makes imperative the ramping up of ‘legal’ strictures on our civil rights. It is a drip -drip philosophy which will mean that when the crap really hits the fan as it is doing now big time, all the requirements will be in place for mass repression. Given the short fast slide into ‘the new paradigm’ we are now seeing there will be armed troops and paramilitary police on every street very soon. We will mostly accept it as ‘normal’ and ‘necessary’. Ho Hum !!
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