Human Rights are Not for Sale
Those in Welly may like to take part in tomorrow’s rally, (organised by us, Amnesty, Falun Gong and Friends of Tibet).
The media were invited up today to meet with Yonglin Chen, who’ll be amongst the speakers tomorrow. He defected in 2005, and has been on the frontline of promoting alleged human rights abuses by the Chinese government since.
He made some dramatic allegations today, that ended up leading One News, regarding an alleged kidnapping of a New Zealand resident.
Here’s the Scoop report on the meeting with Yonglin Chen.
And you can read the entire Aussie inquiry into the affair here.
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July 19th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
Wish I could be there! Am just reading ‘Tibet - My Story’ by Jetsum Pema, sister of the Dalai Lama. Shocking abuse by the Chinese. I shall never buy anything made in China again…
July 19th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
the conditions of tibet under china are terrible from a human rights point of view, but in comparison to how tibet was under the dalai lama and the lamist serf system then china is a god-send for tibet.
98 percent of the population enslaved by the remaining 2 percent is hardly a great country in the way of human rights, especialy considering the hardships pushed on to that 98 percent on purpose. i am not typing this because i support china, i dont support china, i am typing it because im annoyed that everyone always blindly follows the dalai lama and his path of ‘peace’ without investigating the conditions of tibet under his rule and the alliances he formed and the massive human rights violations.
alot of the style of living which he preaches is good, i have afew of his books, but that does not mean he himself is, looking at his “middle way” he doesint even want tibets freedom, he just wants control of the money.
i wonder if this will be censored? always has been in the past
July 19th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
it went through, i wonder if it will stay up
there is a very good article on it somewhere, i think part of it was intitled “when the dalai lama ruled; hell on earth”, do yourselves and tibet a favor and read it.
i remmeber a lamist quote highlighting the hatred of women in the lamist class (the religious upper portion of the 2 percent), i beleive it goes approximatly: “of ten women; you find 9 deamons”
btw, all the human rights violations are of that upper 2 percent who want their status back
July 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this “alleged” kidnapping had happened. We have regularly seen the Communists (Gongfei) throwing their weight around in New Zealand, and it pretty obvious that they don’t seen terribly perturbed about upsetting our democratic sensitivities.
The Nationalist government in Taiwan under Chiang Kai-shek was renowned for its spies on campuses worldwide, so it is highly likely that the PRC government does the same, (IIRC Iran also does this).
Try even vaguely talking politics with any PRC resident here who intends to return to China….. and for god sake’s don’t mention Taiwan unless you want to hear the standard PRC government diatribe.
It is also pretty common knowledge among the Chinese communities here in NZ that the embassy regularly “talks with” the Chinese media here..make of it what you will. It is also rumoured that various papers are financially supported by the Chinese govt, (I will say that while I don’t know the truth of these rumours, the fact they are in common circulation is a statement in itself).
in reply to Sapient….while the Tibet under the Dalai Lama…50 YEARS ago, may or may not have been “free or democratic”, you seem to be trying to excuse one evil (that of communist occupation) by comparing it to another evil (a “backward” Tibet ). One does not excuse or mitigate the other. In addition, the CURRENT evil, that we CAN do something about is the Communist occupation.
jingyang
July 19th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
im not trying to excuse the chinese ‘occupation’ , i am strongly against it, what i am saying is that the enemy of your enemy is not neccaraly you friend, esspecialy when the enemy of your enemy is more guilty of the crime that you hold your enemy accountable for than you enemy is, in this case the crime being violation of human rights, the enemy being the capitalist (yes, capitalist) regime of china and the enemy of your enemy being the dalai lama.
my point is that we are standing against a massive human rights violations yet our greatist ally is much more guilty of the same crime.
the only way we can deal with china would be to convince our governments to impliment massive sanctions against china until which time as they release tibet, but in implimenting sanctions we would be responsible for the even greater attrocity of starving millions of people.
sapient
July 19th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Will the Greens send a protest letter to the North Korean embassy in Canberra (accredited to NZ) about its gulags? If not, why not? They are the only prison camps in the world where children from infants up are imprisoned and worked as slaves.
China’s treatment is appalling, but there are signs of progressive improvement. North Korea is not moving at all though.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:43 am
I remember going to a few communist party meetings here in NZ and thinking that the solidarity thing is a bit silly. We in the west came out of the Judeo - christian protestant thing and it makes us think that our ways of doing things is the way everybody should do things.
The peoples of Asia have come a different way and only they can define what life on earth should be for them. Most of the stuff we base our standard of living on comes from Asia and as long as we subscribe to all that stuff though our mouths may say one thing our hands are definitely saying another.
It’s total hypocrisy to even start to think we could be telling Asia what it should be doing. If the west, in utter humility, were to change our ways, and then suggest to the East that we’ve been total idiots and did it all wrong and could they please think about that for a little while - this might soothe our consciences and be from a vantage of realism - but I’m sure the East would still be angry that we’ve been complete ar@%holes for as long as we have.
China is not the enemy - they are people just like us who have to deal with a past full of expectations for a future that we are all unsure of. A future that may be brighter for all of us if we just take our hands off the pistol and going back to working with a spade - in our own back yards.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:08 am
“It’s total hypocrisy to even start to think we could be telling Asia what it should be doing”
I’m not telling ‘Asia’ what it shouldn be doing - I’m telling Asian governments to stop oppressing the Asian people, same as I tell ‘western’ governments to stop oppressing ‘western’ people.
And I might just put in a word for the Uighers, who are facing colonisation and severe repression and whose history is much the same as the Tibetans. Unfortunately, they are muslim and lack a spokesperson who appeals to the west, so their struggle has been barely noticed.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
artyone, i just thought i would clarify that i do not beleive china to be an enemy, the use of the word was mearly because thats the stance many take. many people suffer under the chinese “communist” regime, the west should however do little to interfare, if the chinese people do want a different way than they have now they must win their freedom through overthrowing the ruling party, it sounds harsh but if they dont their society will not develop in a desirable way, and the main case, it simply wouldint work from external preasure, all that would happen would be mass starvation as a result of the international actions such as sanctions, the most we can do is starve the chinese and hope that they will get so pissed off they rebel, of course thats if their spirit isint already entirly broken, not very humane
July 20th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
To compare the abuse of Tibetans during the time of the Dalai Lama and that of the CCP is utterly wrong. There are numerous articles published online and in print claiming horrific abuses by the Dalai Lama in Tibet - however, they can all be traced back to Chinese sources who’s only endeavor is to discredit the Dalai Lama for their own purpose of the continued occupation of Tibet.
The CCP go to all lengths to paint the Dalai Lama as a separatist who wants to split the motherland. Realistically, he is renown around the world by people in almost every country to be one of the leading figures in the modern day peace movement. He is a Nobel Prize winner for his efforts in peace. All of his literature is to do with peace and harmony.
Sapient, perhaps the Dalai Lama you speak of is long gone. Lost to feudal Tibet.
If one were to be excused for his/her past injustices, the Dalai Lama would be the first. He is what he is now. He does what he does now. Without him the world is a poorer place.
Also, revolutions are not just country based. They are not restricted by border. It is our duty to ensure pressure remains on those who do no comply with international law of human rights. China is one of the gravest offenders in this case. So, it is in solidarity with the Chinese people, who so desperately want basic freedoms, that we MUST continue to ‘interfere’.
Perhaps you should do some more reading and speak to more and more Chinese people. They are asking for help and to say that, “their society will not develop in a desirable way” unless they take on their government without international help is utter rubbish.
Also, everyone check out the posts about Human Rights abuse in China on YOUTUBE. There are many and they are up to date and shocking.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
The present Dalai Lama was only 21 when he and his family had to go into exile in India so blaming him for cruelty is wrong. I think I would prefer to read his sister’s account of life in Tibet, and after, in her book ‘Tibet - My Story’ by Jetsum Pema. Another person, like the Dalai Lama who has devoted her life to peace, understanding and educating children.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
# ash Says:
July 20th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
> Sapient, perhaps the Dalai Lama you speak of is long gone. Lost to feudal Tibet.
Unless you believe in reincarnation, in which case all the past Dalai Lamas are the same person as the corrent Dalai Lama
July 20th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
it would be kind of weird if i beleived in reincarnation when i dont even beleive in the ethereal soul
the points raised above are valid, even if his motivations may be suspect, this cause is a cause that must be fought, i spose our individual views on the history of tibet matter little in comparison with the present situation, so, i shall swallow my opinion and shut up about the lamist class and the dalai lama.
the problem is the chinese regime, or more accuratly the government at the top of that regime. a regime or government falls only when a) the legitimacy is lost to such a point that rebelion by the people takes place or another power is accepted by the people to takes over, or b) when the government is totaly destroyed. unless we intend to destroy the government the most our governments can do is impose trade sanctions apon china in the hope that they will change their activities, if this were done to a signifcant margin then the people and companies would begin to suffer, the lack of imports and exports would put the people out of jobs and leave them without food, killing hundreds of thousands, the bourgousie would have decreased incomes, there are two likley scenarios should this happen, a) the bourgousie which are members of the communist party take disfavour at their cut income and decide to change the parties ways, this is not likley because in doing so a resistance would rapidly rise and oust the communist party and ultimatly cut the bourgousie income even further, the other option b) is that the bourgousie will try and stick in, maybe raiseing wages very slightly in the hopes the sanctions will drop, but with the sanctions in place the food imports wont be availible and the money used to purchase food wont be availible because the exported products which had generated the income for the chinese are no longer being sold, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths from starvation, the plus side to this is that it would ultimatly lead to riots which would oust the communist party, the question is how many have to die? what i was getting at with the undesirable influence on the society is that relying on another to oust may make future generations more dependant and with less national or individual pride, think of what the war of independance and the civil war are to the americans.
and just a end note, just cause it annoys me when people say “inalienable human rights”, there is no such thing as inalienable human rights, human rights are a human construct brought about by the social contract between individual humans and ultimatly between any governing authority, in the case of china the governing authority has decided it has certain powers that breach the social contract as we would reconise it, thats not to say it would be in breach of the social contract of a different culture, that doesint realy have much to do with what we are talking about since it quite oviously does breach it, but still, interesting to think about. makes me want to go vegitarian, or become a cannable, cant decide which.
July 21st, 2007 at 12:30 pm
As we all know, lots and lots of stuff comes out of china, and lots and lots of stuff goes into china. So much so that most of our western economies are based on using the stuff they supply and a significant portion of the world economy is based on supplying them raw materials. Sanctions against such a thing would be like cutting off one of our own legs. Look at the way our government gets rid of the protesters when the Chinese officials arrive. It’s not going to happen. That said the only thing we can do is personally stop buying Chinese goods where possible. Given a significant proportion of our retail industry imports from China then even that would have a far greater detrimental impact on us than it ever would on China… but maybe more importantly, we’d all feel better in our own skins…wouldn’t we?
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:02 am
“Sanctions against such a thing would be like cutting off one of our own legs.”
Hmmmmm… can’t see why this is so - the main effect of trade with China seems to be to kill off manufacturing jobs in NZ in exchange for cheap consumer goods - the modern equivalent of trading land for glass beads.
That said, I’m not calling for sanctions - and not just because I want to keep buying canned fried dace with salted black beans (try them with pasta or noodles, excellent tramping food if you eat fishy things).
Trade sanctions seem a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to international issues these days, I think as a result of the anti-apartheid movement’s success. Trouble is, they seem to be the only weapon in the international solidarity armoury. I recall a newspaper editorial responding to the East Timor independence movement by sternly opposing trade sanctions on Indonesia. Odd thing was, nobody had called for sanctions. The paper just seemed to assume that if people didn’t like a foreign government, they must therefore want sanctions on it.
Instead of sanctions, we could insist on basic labour conditions being included in the Free Trade Agreement being negotiated with China. We can call on our own government to publicly reject the Chinese government’s pressure to halt international contact with opposition figures. We can support anti-government activists in China, both morally and financially.