Waitangi Day to stay - how about more holidays
Peter Dunne’s bill to change the name of Waitangi Day to New Zealand day has been rejected by the Justice Select Committee. Good job too. The Treaty is a founding constitutional document and having a national day named after the Treaty, and timed to coincide with the anniversary of the signing of the Treaty, makes a lot of sense. Of course it’s still a contentious issue but that’s cause we’re still finding our way to deal with the fact of colonisation.
But what would be really good would be to have more holidays around Waitangi Day, when the weather’s generally a lot better than xmas. If we added a public holiday to Waitangi, and then nicked the Boxing Day public holiday and moved it adjacent to Waitangi Day, then we could get a critical mass of holidays in February. Or should we just keep all the public holidays we currently have and add another week annual leave? Four weeks annual leave might seem a lot but it isn’t compared to the rest of the world.
I reckon part of overcoming a colonial mindset is matching our holidays to the weather of the place where we actually live (as well as coming to terms with the displacement of those who lived here before European colonisation). We still have our holidays around Christian dates when barely half of us are now Christian and the weather at xmas and Easter isn’t generally that good.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Given that we go to four weeks annual leave from April, another Public holiday will hurt some businesses hard at this stage. Any discussion on additional holidays would best wait a year I think.
The purpose of 4 weeks holiday is to give people the ability to negotiate when they can take time off that suits them - so go for summer using those.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm
What a pity this has failed, we as a nation have missed a golden chance to unite the country on a National day.
And as for the holidays (Boxing day and the like), leave them where they are thank you, they are part of my heritage and I would be culturally offended if anybody changed these day around without consulting me or my family.
My ancestors came from the northern hemisphere, it would do their spirits no good at all should we stop observing days that were very important to them.
There is more than one race of people in NZ who have a cultural identity that they wish to preserve.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
You’re unlikely to succeed in moving Easter or Christmas. But what about shifting the school holidays? Give the kids Christmas and New Year’s off but otherwise keep them in school through most/all of December and January. Then give them all of February off. I think that would go down well with a lot of people, without ruffling too many feathers..
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Repton, that’s a point, and we wouldn’t be competing with all those aussies for vacation reservations.. nor they with us…
I’d go for it.
So I guess it’s doomed then
BJ
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:34 pm
BB,
Your ancestors, like everyone else’s, come from Africa.
Of course, it would appear that your lot have not evolved quite as quickly as others.
Heh.
February 23rd, 2007 at 8:00 pm
I’ve met some people from Africa, and they were very evolved.
I like the idea of moving the school holidays. Just make the Christmas-New Years break a term break. That might be 8-10 working days (make Christmas Eve Day a school holiday if it falls on a weekday)
I do not like the idea of dropping or changing Easter and Christmas.
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Now this IS worrying!!!
Interest in Treaty at dangerous low, says academic
Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 9:39 am
Press Release: Auckland University of Technology
Interest in Treaty at dangerous low, says AUT academic
Public interest in the Treaty of Waitangi has plummeted in the last two years, says AUT University academic and leading Treaty expert Professor Paul Moon.
“Despite the millions of tax-payer dollars being poured into Treaty education, there has been an alarming drop in public concern with anything to do with the Treaty,” he says.
By analysing references to the Treaty in the media and gauging the amount of public discussion on it, Professor Moon estimates that the past two years represent a new low in awareness of Treaty-related matters.
He puts this down to several reasons, including a failure by many to see any relevance in the Treaty, the lack of progress in settling the hundreds of outstanding claims, and what he terms the “spectacular disinterest” in the Government’s recent Treaty road show.
“We are possibly seeing the beginning of the end of the Treaty in the country’s national life,” warns Professor Moon. “If New Zealanders do not see a purpose in the Treaty, then in just one generation it could disappear altogether from the national consciousness, and will be remembered afterwards solely as an historical agreement.”
Note: Professor Paul Moon is will be attending Waitangi Day celebrations at Waitangi on February 6 and is available for media interviews. Journalists can contact him directly: ph (09) 921 9999 ext 6838 or mobile 021 036 6592.
Paul Moon, MA (Hons), MPhil (Dstnct.), PhD, FRHistS, is Professor of History at AUT’s Faculty of Maori Development, Te Ara Poutama. His specialist areas of research include the Treaty of Waitangi and the early period of Crown rule in New Zealand.
Professor Moon has published two best-selling books on the Treaty of Waitangi. He has also produced the biographies of Governors William Hobson and Robert FitzRoy, and the Ngapuhi chief, Hone Heke, and the ground-breaking book Tohunga: Hohepa Kereopa. He has also written a major biography of the Ngapuhi politician and Kotahitanga leader Hone Heke Ngapua (1869-1909), and wrote the best-selling Fatal Frontiers – a history of New Zealand in the 1830s. Future books include a history of New Zealand in the 1840s and a major work on Maori cannibalism.
ENDS
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/print.html?path=ED0701/S00037.htm
jh
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Of course it’s still a contentious issue but that’s cause we’re still finding our way to deal with the fact of colonisation.
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Still, [stiff upper lip], one gets over things,… one gets by…… (one moves on)!
jh
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Smokey
Is that the best you can do?, I am sure you could have slipped in the odd racist allegation as well.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:01 pm
OK, here you go Bro.
I suspect that your ancestors actually came from Flores in Indonesia - home of the short-*rsed mental midget.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Bro loves to get a caning, he keeps asking for more…
Character forming, isn’t it Bro? But doesn’t seem to correct delinquent behaviour.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:25 pm
I cant see moving the school holidays to February will make any difference. Dont they say the reason February is so nice is because we are back in work and school (wishing we werent) and the weather is pretty much the same?
And as for another public holiday, we are going to need one eventually given that surely we have to become a Republic sooner or later. we can just set a date in February some time. Big Bros wish to have a unifying national day where we can celebrate the country we have become can be fulfufilled too. Although it has to be one of those holidays that always falls on a friday or a monday, you just cant have a public holiday on a saturday or sunday (well we do and its stupid)
Im all for the Matariki holiday to, its not all about the summer holidays, its a break from the greyness of working in winter aswell.
February 24th, 2007 at 12:49 am
pdublley,
I like Waitangi Day, and I’m all for the Matariki holiday too!
(However, I would recommend that big bruv goes to work alone on that day, in solidarity with his Northern Hemisphere anncestors, who DID NOT celebrate Matariki… nor did they approve of, or even know about, the signing of Te Tiriti … probably because they were still in Europe.)
Ancestral loyalties can become a bit of a problem as none of us really know when and where our ancestors moved on from Africa, but if we each went back far enough we would find that we are all related to prettymuch everyone else on the Planet!
Now we are all people of the South Pacific. This is our chosen home, and it has customs of its own that are suited to its location in the World. If we haven’t done so already, we should embrace these customs. If we don’t, our children will!
February 24th, 2007 at 1:24 am
Eredwen,
Im sure despite big bros opinions, he is as tolerant as you and me and would glady take the day of work and attribute it to a culture that is unique but also has (for a long time) been integrating with his own (but being a pakeha im not sure maybe i should preface that with not an ideology of assimilation or homogeninity, but more of cultural exchange). See keeping waitangi day and having our independence/republic day (as opposed to the other independence day nobody knows exists sometime in october give or take a month) in February should keep everyone happy, more holidays, people can express their kiwiness or in Big Bros case his englishness (why he would do that I dont know) in the same month and will teach us that we can celebrate different things in our nation about our nation in the same month. Cool eh?
February 24th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Sorry big bro,
Dont mean to confuse you with saying that I dont know why you want to celebrate your englishness. Chances are your prob a mix from all over the uk (there cant be any Irish in you) with a dash or more of continental europe in you. While I dont understand why you want to celebrate it (i mean you have plenty of opportunity to do that on other public holidays like xmas, easter, queens birthday) I can definitely tolerate you doing so and have no wish to ban these european traditions to replace them with indigenous holidays that serve no purpose in a modern multi cultural society.
If anything we need a mix of holidays to show where we have come from being xmas, easter and matariki, waitangi and another holiday to show the country isnt stuck 150 years in the past when we didnt call our selves kiwis because kiwis didnt exist, back then there were settlers and Maori, now we have Kiwis. Hence my call to celebrate where we came from as a nation and where we are now through a mix of public holidays.
February 24th, 2007 at 7:13 am
eredwen Says:
February 24th, 2007 at 12:49 am
Now we are all people of the South Pacific. This is our chosen home, and it has customs of its own that are suited to its location in the World.
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Purporting the idea that culture is a biological and geographical fact
======================
If we haven’t done so already, we should embrace these customs. If we don’t, our children will!
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with assistance from world improvers deep in some govt department.
jh
February 24th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Russel, I don’t think that you’re onto a vote winner with the idea of ditching Christmas hols. Whether one is Christian or not, most New Zealanders see Christmas and Boxing Day as significant and like the idea of holidays at the end of the working year, whatever the weather.
I agree with Big Bruv - these are deep-rooted parts of our culture. There is nothing wrong with respecting the fact that for the majority of Kiwis our cultural heritage comes from Europe; it is the sign of cultural cringe to suggest otherwise.
I’d be interested to know how many of the people on this site advocating a Matariki Day actually know why Matariki is significant to Maori, can point out Matariki in the night sky, and know the European name for the Matariki constellation.
February 24th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Off topic a bit but Christmas> consumerism> bill boards, I’m surprised this wasn’t picked up by someone. I.e the degree that the Auckland business community is threatened by the ban on bill boards. I can understand people needing signs for their coffee shops etc, but their reaction highlights the affect that the missinformation has for the environment and the well being of society.
The most popular adv on TV was the baby in the SUV. How about a billboard saying “the diesel you waste today wont power the combine (harvestor) of tomorrow” [picture of rusting combine]. Or “Christchurch the Garden City” [Picture of flower pot on cobbled driveway, knocked over and cracked by bumper of sports car]
jh
February 24th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
My understanding is that Chrismas and Easter actually have little to do with Christian tradition, and more to do with traditional winter solstice and spring festivals. So it would make sense to shift them to June and October respectively. This would still acknowledge the European cultural traditions, while also adapting the holidays to our geography.
February 24th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Queen’s Birthday is our midwinter feast (albeit a couple of weeks early), and Labour day is our spring celebration. Silly to rename them to the Christian names when the Christians would object.
Xmas and newyears make not too bad of a summer holiday, even if it is six weeks earlier than it should be. Easter’s terribly out of place, especially wandering about as it does, but that’s what you get for living on the ass-end of the planet. 8]
February 24th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
The Strategist says:
I’d be interested to know how many of the people on this site advocating a Matariki Day actually know why Matariki is significant to Maori, can point out Matariki in the night sky, and know the European name for the Matariki constellation.
Woo Hoo! What are you implying here?
In shorthand:
*navigation (South) Pacific-wide / crop planting indicator
*when far enough above the horizon (seasonal) hence Matariki Celebration
*Plieades
February 24th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Eredwen - if the sky is clear tonight, say around 10pm, you can see the Pleiades (Matariki) in the northern sky to the lower left of Orion and the Hyades, in Taurus.
Years ago I worked with a kaumatua from Ngati Tuwharetoa ki Kawerau, ane he told me that his ancestors used Matariki as a kumara planting indicator in winter, when the constellation first rose in the early morning sky.
In Europe the Pleiades has long been a significant constellation. For example, ancient Greeks and Egyptians used the rising and setting of the Pleiades as signals for sowing and harvesting crops. Maritime Greeks put to sea on long-distance trading voyages when the Pleiades rose.
The point I’m making here, eredwen, is that let’s not rush off and propose that Matariki (or some other event) be made a national holiday until we’re sure that it means something to most New Zealanders. Let’s also get our facts right about what Matariki means to those whose ancestors came here from the northern hemisphere. And let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater - I for one would welcome a Matariki day, and a winter solstice celebration as well, but also like celebrating Christmas and Easter and having time off work to do so.
February 24th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Yes, kumara planting … I live on a hill in Christchurch, above an estuary where people had lived for 900 years of more (according to Ngai Tahu). The big cave where they lived has a clear view up the Canterbury coast to Kaikoura and beyond. (An excellent vantage point for spotting any Waka coming south, well ahead of their arrival!)
My father, then the first “Education Officer” at the Canterbury Museum, took me, as a small child, to watch the “official” archeological excavation of that cave in the mid 1940’s …
South Island Pakeha have not had that strange/strained relationship with Maori that is now evident in many parts of the North Island … (less people involved, no Pakeha-Maori Wars and perhaps proportionately more inter-marriage?) There is a real sense of pride here about the success of Ngai Tahu and of the Ngai Tahu Corporation.
I agree that “official” recognition of Matariki needs to come in its own time, but that time already on its way, as increasing numbers of Kiwis are celebrating it each year … the younger generations are “just getting on with it” here!
February 24th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
That’s good to hear, but let’s make sure that they understand what it’s all about, and that someone tells them where to look for Matariki/Pleiades in the night sky, and at what times of year.
It could be a good programme for schools: teach kids how to identify five constellations in the southern sky, five native plants, five native bird species, five types of rocks etc, and their history, significance…
February 24th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
I’m all for that!
My tennant is an enthusiastic young teacher at the local primary school.
I’ll discuss this with her …
When I think of it:
* My parents, both teachers, often took us camping under the night sky.
* Over the years we have turned our property back into a botanically “significant” indigenous forest. (It requires no watering, because the seeds/plants, courtesy of LandCare Research, are the correct varieties of the correct species that originally grew on this slope.)
* My father’s “hobby” was ornithology. He had various articles published on migratory birds that “winter” in the local estuary here.
* I have two years geology as part of my degree … and we live on Banks Peninsula which was a volcanic island across the sea from the Southern Alps whose glaciers ground up the rocks and the rock flour was blown by the nor’westers onto the volcanoes to form the loess which still covers the volcanic rock … and that same rock flour gradually helped to build up the Caterbury Plains … and …
*I’ve lived in this area most of my life …
Maybe we could do a “pilot study” of your idea, with my tennants class, in my old primary school ?
I’ll get back to you!
February 24th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
If Big Bruv’s and ZenTiger’s idols at the National Party had their way, we would have no holidays.
Good if we kept Waitangi day as it is and added one more “New Zealand” day.
February 24th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
The Strategist:
No clear skies here tonight I’m afraid!
We’ll probably add to the few days of “summer” we’ve had this season, when the winter snow should be falling in the Southern Alps.
February 24th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Very clear sky here though. I’ll have to get outside with the binoculars.
February 24th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
I’ve never voted National Shaky. You’ll have to think of new idols for me.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:04 am
A New Zealand Day would be good.
Waitangi Day has no significance to me (other han a day off), or anyone I know. Too political, one-sided, and not a celebration of national identity for the majority.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Slightly off topic I know but what do fellow forum members think of the Maori parties latest racist out burst?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/3973886a10.html
Can you imagine the out burst if another party had suggested we stop bringing refugees to NZ or suggested we stop Pacific Island immigration?
February 26th, 2007 at 11:14 am
I think it is another indication that the nature of the political arrangements here are not properly balanced. We really do need to reform the “Consitution” here to render their political power properly equal to that of the Pakeha… which would make their actual numbers relative to Pakeha irrelevant and remove this distraction. I’ve suggested a dual parliament in the past. I still favour that notion.
respectfully
BJ
February 26th, 2007 at 11:30 am
BJ
With respect that is not the issue.
We have here a member of parliment who is proposing a policy that would have the press up in arms if she were a white Kiwi suggsting that we stop brown immigration.
February 26th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
BB - I actually don’t care much about the opinion of individual members of parliament or interpreting “xxx” as racist or otherwise.
That person was complaining about lacking/losing power in parliament as a result of a policy that I have gone through. I do not recall any question that indicated my species… and the points total which is needed to get a look contains no points for being green or purple. There are points for gold, provided you have enough of it, but that’s a whole different category of migrant.
Power, political power, is the question I addressed. Resolve that problem and any objective basis for the complaint disappears.
Whether there is actual racism I am not going to guess. It is a very easy charge to make and a lot of well-meaning people get trapped by some interpretation of their language. I don’t commonly call people that name nor accept it in general because to actually look inside their heads and know why they said “XXX” is impossible (and if it were possible it would likely be both disgusting and rude).
respectfully
BJ
February 26th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I’m not sure how a dual parliament would work BJ.
Are you suggesting two seperate law making / amending parliaments?
BJ
While the suggestion of to parliaments may have merit I dont how they would function if there was a conflict between the two. Say for example the one parliament passes a law that makes customary title to foreshore and seabed be vested in the crown. The other parliament say no, it is to be vested in local iwi and hapu.
Do you envisage a upper parliament for dispute resolution?
The only wayI could see two parliaments working if you physically divided the country up so that one parliament had jurisdiction in a finite area of influence over all the people who lived in that area and the other parliament jurisdiction in the other.
Or do people have choise in which parliament they would vote for and whose laws they would follow? Practically I dont know how you would propose this works without splitting the country in to distinct regions with their own parliament.
February 26th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
I was regarding it more as a mutual veto arrangement. Both must agree for a measure to become law. I don’t think it’s ever been done that way. So if one claimed X and the other claimed Y, neither would get their way. Legislation would have to be fair to both to be passed. One Parliament would belong to the iwi and the other to us newcomers.
As a Constitutional base it would have to in addition, retire the Treaty as the ruling document. The “Crown” would become both houses, neither having an absolute mandate by itself. I believe that it would also unravel the foreshore/seabed and other contentious issues, but Waitangi based complaints are historical… so those would continue until we finally clear that closet of skeletons.
Disputes don’t get resolved by picking winners. They continue until the participants compromise. I am still considering how the executive might work and whether you are right and there should be some way to actually do dispute resolution. The prospect of having one side or the other getting petulant and freezing the government at some critical juncture is real enough. Unrelated issues being used as levers to get their way on something specific seems to be a problem with it. Exchanges of special laws might also be a problem with it.
Laws that are good for all New Zealanders would be easy to make happen.
Rugby stadiums, roads, rails, fisheries… all that sharing of responsibility might actually lead to some better results than we’ve had.
I haven’t spent a lot of time thinking about the mechanics, I believe they can be worked out, but some things are clearly harder when done this way.
The problem I am trying to address is that the treaty divides the whole nation into iwi and non-iwi, and it accords some very uncertain rights on each. That leaves us split from top to bottom right through the whole nation, and at odds with each other over all manner of things. This would formalize the division of course, but would also push it into the beehive and IMHO , off the street. It’d cost pakeha New Zealand some power but it would give Maori what I think is a rightful ability to actually function as stewards for the land and sea… without ceding them ownership.
Heading in the vague direction of one law for all New Zealanders.
Sorry that this isn’t fleshed out that well, but I’m speculating out loud here, not presenting a well finished solution. I reckon that if it were fleshed out a bit it’d look nothing like my initial concept except for moving the division out of the streets and into parliament house.
Which is fine by me.
respectfully
BJ
February 26th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
“I’d be interested to know how many of the people on this site… actually know why Matariki is significant to Maori, can point out Matariki in the night sky, and know the European name for the Matariki constellation. ”
Me for one.
Wonder how many people know what Easter is all about, or what Wellington Anniversary day is based on?
“Waitangi Day has no significance to me (other han a day off),”
Really? The day NZ lost its independence has no significance for you?
Though I guess I could say the same about Christmas/Boxing Day/Easter/Anniversary Day/Labour Day.
February 26th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
For a long time, Queen’s Birthday had no real significance for me. But that was before I had learned about what’s behind it.
Not only is it not the Queen’s actual birthday, it isn’t even something like the first monday after the last full moon before her birthday. It has absolutely nothing to do with the timing of her birthday whatsoever. And the UK celebrates Queen’s birthday on a different day from us, and there’s has nothing to do with her real birthday either. I think ours is something like the closest monday to King Edward the 7th’s birthday, though I may be wrong.
The point is that New Zealand has been so busy passing women’s suffrage acts and nuclear free zone acts that we never had time to do anything about the strange situation whereby we are nominally reigned over by someone who is neither a citizen nor a resident of this country she supposedly reigns over, and who plays no part in the governing or national life of this country. And we celebrate her birthday on the wrong day. And that’s something that at least the clan McGillicuddy should feel proud of.
But I’m intrigued by Tussock’s claim that Queen’s birthday is our mid-winter feast. Nobody has ever invited me to a feast to celebrate Queen’s Birthday. Now I feel all left out! I bet all you guys have been to Queen’s Birthday feasts and it’s only me that never gets invited.
February 26th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
kahikatea,
Nobody has invited me either!
February 27th, 2007 at 12:11 am
BJ :
No need for constitutional innovation. The two-parliament concept sounds “too hard” to me.
Much simpler : a Senate, composed of Maori elders.
Most functional parliamentary systems are bicameral. It often greatly improves the quality of lawmaking. Certainly it slows it down, which is rarely a bad thing.
It is important that the senate be selected on a different basis from the members of the lower house (otherwise it’s simply redundant). The actual mechanism of selection doesn’t seem to be too important : in the US, the states elect the senators; in France, it’s the mayors; in the UK they are political appointees. But in each case, the senate provides a valuable check on unbridled executive power and slapdash legislation.
In the case of Aotearoa/NZ, it would be an ideal symbol of shared/ambiguous sovereignty…
February 27th, 2007 at 3:19 am
Alistair - I reckon I like that idea. It’d do the job quite nicely. I do feel some need to do something to replace the Treaty with something less ambiguous, but to do so the Maori have to have real power in government. Your suggestion satisfies (I think) that requirement. I would however be considerate of the bipolar nature remaining in balance.
If, at any time in the future, the parliament should become majority Maori, the upper house should become some elected “elders” from among the Pakeha. In other words, at no time could there ever be NO minority representation in the government.
I believe that the Maori should also have to have the power to originate bills, not just pass on those that are created in the lower house.
Tricky stuff… the machinery of government. It is the stuff of civilization and it appears that despite our years of study the human species has yet to get this quite correct.
respectfully
BJ
February 27th, 2007 at 7:00 am
Sam - “Wonder how many people know what Easter is all about, or what Wellington Anniversary day is based on? ”
This is an argument for ensuring that people know about what these holidays mean, rather than remaining ignorant. But my guess would be that a lot of people would know at least the basic idea about about Easter, whether they are Christian or not.
February 27th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Sam
Really? The day NZ lost its independence has no significance for you?
Though I guess I could say the same about Christmas/Boxing Day/Easter/Anniversary Day/Labour Day.
February 27th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Sam
>>Really? The day NZ lost its independence has no significance for you?
It has no significance to me.
Neither does Queens Birthday.
Time to move on…
February 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Please let us have holidays that reflect the climate in the Southern Hemisphere and the multi cultural society with minimal interest in religion. Religious holidays should not be part of the holiday pattern. Really - Easter in the Autumn celebrating the supposed rising from the dead of a probably fictional charater is not what most of us want to take a holiday for. Christmas as a time to celebrate the birth of the same character is also a bit far out, for what was a winter celebration.