Gross misuse of Taser
Not from New Zealand (thank goodness) but here’s one for the anti-Taser file: In this You Tube video, a UCLA student is tased repeatedly after failing to comply with a random late-night ID check in a computer lab at one of the University’s libraries. The handheld camera footage is a little shaky and hard to follow, but the audio gives you a pretty fair idea of what is going on. This incident occurred last Tuesday 14 November.
The most disturbing thing about all the taser videos I’ve seen is that officers frequently tase people a second and third time for refusing to stand up or roll over after the first shock. The victims often say “I can’t” - which is pretty darn plausible given the paralytic shock they’ve just suffered - and yet they are tased again and again.
The details of this case are highly disturbing. It’s just so ridiculously disproportionate. Obviously we’re not at the point of having Campus Cops armed with Tasers here, but as far as I’m concerned, the many, many videos like this from the US provide ample reason to believe that having these weapons in New Zealand is a terrible idea.
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:20 pm
still not keeping up with ‘the best little news service in new zealand’..
eh frog..?
this (and more) was posted on whoar..oh..!..ages ago..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
btw..over 200 people killed in u.s. in last five years by tasering..
see..!..if you kept up..i wouldn’t have to be telling you all this..would i..?
oh..and did you know i got an exclusive on the gore visit/speech/presentation..?
i guess you couldn’t have..eh..?..
or else you would have mentioned it to your readers..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:22 pm
I’d like to taser Nicky Hager.
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:28 pm
Actually Phil, I read your post about Al Gore (after you posted about in in the comments here) and found your analysis interesting. I’ve just searched your site for the story about this taser video but couldn’t find anything with the terms “taser”, “tazer” or “UCLA” - got a link?
November 22nd, 2006 at 12:55 pm
Come on Frog, that type of post just enforces the idea that many Greens are scare mongering when it comes to this issue.
Just what are the police supposed to do when faced with a criminal who is not going to co-operate?…..personally I would favour shooting some of them but given that this is not acceptable the taser is a good option.
The criminals masquerading as protesters at the recent G20 (i think that is what it is called) conference would have thought twice if they were faced with tasers.
November 22nd, 2006 at 2:25 pm
You didnt’ watch the video did you big bruv…
This was police brutality served cold, using pain to bully someone out of passive resistance, instead of just handcuffing the guy and picking or dragging him out.
The world is a harsh place, little bruv, and its understandable to go into a state of perpetual denial that anything bad is happening. However that leads you to sit idly by while society’s liberties are eroded by those with power… and one day, if for whatever reason those in power don’t like what you’re saying, or who you are, you find yourself being tortured in the back of a paddy wagon, just remember how you denied the truth back in the days, cos it was just too scary…
November 22nd, 2006 at 3:12 pm
Tom
The minute I can see a video of the NZ police doing something similar I will agree with you, until then the question remains (It would be great if you answered it) what do you propose the Police IN NZ do when confronted with a violent criminal?
It is interesting that you mention society’s liberties being eroded, one of the green party members is attempting to do just that right now with the smacking bill, if you are so concerned about civil liberties then perhaps you should have a chat with Sue Bradford.
Tom, I am well aware the the world is a hard place, I wonder how many of the Chardonnay socialists (not that I am suggesting you are one of them) actually realise just how hard a world it is, therefore we need people with power if only to keep the peace.
I sense a hatred of the Police in your post, obviously as I do not know you I can only guess as to why that might be but one thing I do know is that it is highly unlikely that I will ever be tasered.
Even the corrupt Labour government in NZ are not yet at the stage of tasering anybody who does not agree with them so to suggest that is (once again) simply scare mongering.
November 22nd, 2006 at 4:54 pm
Frog, thanks, I now have a view on tasers that is not favourable.
Just to lighten the mood, here is a comedy of errors, the only thing the cop lacked was a gun, otherwise he might have blown a hole through his foot:
http://stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3865433a4560,00.html
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:01 pm
It seems to me that in every system, there will be abuses by people who shouldn’t be doing the job. That should be factored into assessments, but need not rule out measures completely. It would be sad (but possible) if genuine measures that could help deal with problems are themselves ruled out by the detriment likely to arise from abuse.
One hopes that abusive, violent police will end up where they belong - behind bars.
November 23rd, 2006 at 7:06 am
This is (apparently) another area where I part ways with some of my friends here. The improper use of the taser by the control-freak at UCLA is in no way similar or related to the uses here. The choices for NZ police when confronted by a lunatic with a knife or a club are to let him go or to get hurt… badly. This is not necessary.
Phil is on point that there is a lot of misuse in the USA… where officers do not take its use as seriously as they would if they weren’t even more heavily armed, and where respect for the police is often a matter of fear rather than real respect, and where some departments (LAPD is particularly big on this) seem to attract real control freaks. First hand knowledge….
…but that is not the case here, at least not yet, and I am inclined to let the police here have a chance to retrieve situations that have gotten out of control with this (usually) non-lethal weapon. Rather that then have their blood let out on the street as well.
The point about the police and the guns is important. The police have almost always been heavily armed in the USA. They are inclined to view the Taser as a toy as a result… and its overuse is IMHO based on that perception. I don’t think that that CAN happen here. If we issued a 9mm to every officer would this trivialize the Taser. In the USA, cops generally carry at least 2 and often 3 different guns. Moreover, I would put the odds at 60-40 that the Kampus Kop in the video was carrying when he tased the student.
It’s an important difference.
respectfully
BJ
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:35 pm
Big Bruv
happy to help out:
“until then the question remains (It would be great if you answered it) what do you propose the Police IN NZ do when confronted with a violent criminal?”
2 options: if he/she is not armed, then the police can threaten to use pepper spray, followed by using the spray if they are attacked. Once they’re incapacitated, smack some handcuffs on them.
If they’re armed, so that getting close enough to use pepper spray is going to incur a high probability of getting hurt, the armed offenders squad can be called. These guys carry guns, but I’d be happier to see them carrying tasers, which will have the incapacitating effect with the bloody hole in the chest.
So I’m not against tasers per se, that would be ridiculous.
“I sense a hatred of the Police in your post”
Thanks, yoda. To infer that I hate police, or am an anarchist, would be a bit ridiculous, don’t you think. I dislike police brutality, as was obvious.
The UCLA incident was needless police brutality. Do you disagree?
The UCLA incident also doesn’t fall into the category of “confronted with a violent criminal?”, does it?
Nice effort at a sidestep dressed up as a rebuttal…
What’s a Chardonnay Socialist? I do like Chardonnay, I do vote Green, but I’m not a socialist, whatever that is anyway. I don’t think labels are very helpful.
Regarding pain as an instrument of compliance (eg UCLA tasering of a passive resisting student)…
“The minute I can see a video of the NZ police doing something similar I will agree with you”
Do you recall an incident where, in order to get a prisoner to unclench his buttcheeks (while in custody), the police pepper sprayed him? Or another, where a man lying on the ground handcuffed (outside the ‘fight for life’, if I recall) was sprayed in the face for being obnoxious?
These incidents were both dishings out of pain not to prevent any harm to the officers involved, but to ‘teach the guy a lesson’ or to make policing tasks easier, not safer. Ditto UCLA - tasering a guy on the ground because he won’t get up was apparently easier than handcuffing him and picking him up (he wasn’t actively resisting). Probably the police motivation was more about enforcing ‘respect through fear’ like bjchip says, but the police seemed to think they could get away with it because tasers/pepper spray are, apparently, allowed to be used to induce compliance.
This is what I think should be absolutely illegal - the use of pain, or the threat of pain, to make an officers job easier (not safer). This is brutality, pure and simple.
My problem with the introduction of tasers in NZ is that they are unequivocally NOT being used as a replacement for the guns carried by the armed offenders squad. They are going to be used as pepper spray is currently used - as an instrument of compliance. Pain, to ensure cooperation.
Also, I just spotted this gem
“personally I would favour shooting some of them”
…I think if I’d seen this earlier I probably wouldn’t have bothered replying…maybe shed some of your hate and come back in a few years…
good luck
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Wow frog. Pretty disturbing stuff. Anyone who claims that it couldn’t happen here is deluding themselves. Unfortunately we share the same colonial agro-gene as the Americans and the Aussies, with only a moderately less violent society as a result. We’re also catching up fast, hence the perceived need for tasers.
November 23rd, 2006 at 7:27 pm
I don’t mind NZ Police having Tasers.
I’ve been following this UCLA case and it sounds like the campus officer in question is simply a dick. Apparently he has previously gotten in trouble for choking a student with a baton (for which he was suspended) and he shot a mentally unstable homeless man in a campus bathroom.
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:10 pm
Tom
I have read your lengthy and emotional post, to be honest I found it quite entertaining, while I was a little disappointed to see you resort to abuse I am happy to let that slide as I find that is the norm when discussing something with those from the left.
The issue of what happened in the states is not relevant, I note that you mentioned the chap who was pepper sprayed outside the fight for life, now I (and I am sure you do not either) know ALL the details surrounding that incident but I would wager that the bugger deserved everything he got.
As for the chap who would not unclench his buttocks (not the nicest mental picture) I have no issue with that either, what were the police supposed to do in that case?..”please Mr Criminal can you do as I ask”…you seem to be suggesting that the police are dealing with normal same people on a day to day basis when in reality that is far from the truth.
I also note that you claimed not to have a hatred of the police yet you go on to contradict yourself, we have few Police as it is in this country, you can never find one when you need one and I am all for them having every possible tool at their disposal to get the job done as safely as possible, if this means a few low life sum bags are tasered or pepper sprayed then so be it.
November 24th, 2006 at 12:23 am
big bruv says: “I have read your lengthy and emotional post, to be honest I found it quite entertaining, while I was a little disappointed to see you resort to abuse I am happy to let that slide as I find that is the norm when discussing something with those from the left.”
big bruv: You give the impression of one who is “a legend in his own mind” … believing that he is so “tolerant” and so “urbane” and so “far above all the pettiness” of these beings so far beneath him.
In contrast, Tom, whom you criticise, writes in a direct, friendly and non emotive manner.
Having giving you the benefit of the doubt for a considerable time now, I agree with Tom’s assesment …
“maybe shed some of your hate and come back in a few years” …
November 24th, 2006 at 8:01 am
eredwen
I believe everybody has the right to hold their own opinion, you seem to agree with that as long as other peoples opinions are the same as yours, I am not sure why you have such a problem with dissenting opinions.
I go back to one of my original posts here, I actually support some of the issues that the greens stand for.
The trouble is that they will never receive widespread support until the drop the more radical and idiotic side issues.
November 24th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
“I would wager that the bugger deserved everything he got.”
Bit hard to argue with this sort of comment, as it seems to suggest “I assume the police are doing everything right, whether I know the facts or not”.
How about this example? The NZ police raid an activist group’s office using a warrant that a judge later rules should never have been issued, carry out a search that is later ruled to be outside the scope of the warrrant anyway, make an arrest, later rule to have been unjustified, which sets of a minor scuffle, and then, when a person (me) asks why the guy was being arrested respond by batoning him in the face, resulting in seizures and two days unconscious in intensive care. When he complains, he is arrested for assaulting police. Police witnesses tell three contradictory stories in court about why he was batoned and the judge throws the charge out saying “the police evidence has an air of unreality about it”. Are these the people you think can be trusted with tasers?
Can’t offer a video to back this account up, but I have lengthy files, statements and the judge’s decision if you want to check through them.
There’s also a mate of mine who got pepper sprayed by a hyped up young cop even though he didn’t intervene, followed police instructions, and backed off after coming across an aquaintance of his being arrested. The problem apparently that he was a scruffy young punk.
And another friend who was arrested for holding up a flag the size of a tea towel at a demo, which police claimed could have obstructed their view of criminal activities (they didn’t suggest there actually were any such activiites), and in any case, the police waited untill the end of the demo before three of them grabbed her and severely dislocated her shoulder while handcuffing her (she needed surgery and a couple of years to recover), and broke the wrist of another friend who intervened. Once again, the judge threw all the charges out, and condemned the police’s actions.
Sorry, Big Bruv - I just don’t trust many of this crowd with tasers, there’s a few good apples in the police, but not enough to justify giving them new toys.
November 26th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
Its the attitude and motivation of the tazer-carriers that worry me.
Police Association head Greg O’Connor’s recently described the NZ polics as ‘the coercive arm of the state’, and ‘must be able to impose the state’s will on the public’.
That doesnt sound much like a parliamentary democracy to me.
November 26th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Sam
That is a terrible story and I would hope that the people concerned were dealt with severely.
However I cannot support the call to take away the Tasers or the pepper spray, given the danger they face every single day of the week they need all the protection they can get.
It does disturb me that a few here don’t seem bothered about the safety of the Police, sure there might be the odd bad apple but that is no reason to deny the vast majority of the Police the protection they deserve.
November 28th, 2006 at 10:12 am
“That is a terrible story and I would hope that the people concerned were dealt with severely”
Two got a ‘black mark’ on their records that hindered their chances of promotion for a couple of years - and were sent to ‘counselling’.
The police paid out some money in an out of court settlement, but never admitted any wrongdoing.
Statistically, there are a lot of jobs more dangerous than policing - forestry, ditch-digging etc. Sure, police face violence, but not to the degree often supposed.
“Police Association head Greg O’Connor’s recently described the NZ polics as ‘the coercive arm of the state’, and ‘must be able to impose the state’s will on the public’.”
That sounds exactly the role the police are required to play. Why else do we have police?
November 28th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
“To arm the police is to arm the criminals” is the saying that we, as a country, have lived by successfully for generations.
Unfortunately the increasingly evidence of the arming of some crims, and some gangs, etc is at least in part a result of the violence they have watched on (imported) movies/TV programmes all of their lives. “There is no such thing as a free lunch” and we as a society are paying the price for these cheap imports.
Personally, I would prefer the use of SPECIALIST “Armed Defenders Squads” to back up police officers where firearms are evident. Probably there should be more such sqads, perhaps with different formats to suit, in parts of Aotearoa/NZ.
I would hate to see the cumulative efects of making Tazer a “standard issue” for all police. (Tazer as a backup is understandable, but it is not desirable because of the inevitably escallation in this process that it will cause.)
Let’s not go down this slippery slope!
I believe that all concerned citizens need to be vocal in their concerns … and write to local politicians, and police every time there is an incident that involves the use of such force.
November 28th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
I agree with eredwen. I don’t want to see an arms race between ordinary police and criminals. Criminals with tasers - a scary thought.
February 19th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I have changed my opinion on the police having tasers after yesterdays shocking incident in Wellington where the little kids were attacked with a carving knife.
I now want tasers banned altogether, if the Police did not have tasers they would have been forced to shoot the scum bag who stabbed the little kids.
Do away with Tasers and issue Glock pistols immediately.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Where is Keith Locke now?
If our police had tasers there would not have been a fatal shooting in Christchurch last night, Locke should hang his head in shame.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:54 am
RCMP USE TASER ON CHILLIWACK MAN DURING ARREST
A Chilliwack, B.C., man was subdued by a Taser on Monday, just hours after the province’s top Mountie said he was worried his officers won’t
use Tasers when they need to in light of angry public reactions to the
death of Robert Dziekanski.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/19/bc-taser.ht ml
TASERS ARE A NECESSARY POLICE TOOL, DAY SAYS
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said he’s not surprised most people who get shot by Tasers by police are unarmed when it happens.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2007/11/19/stockwell-taser.htm l