Brethren strike again
One really has to wonder at the extent of Brethren involvement in the electoral process worldwide. It seems wherever there’s an election, they are there, spending mega-bucks campaigning to support conservative parties and/or demonise Green parties and centre-left governments. And we only know of the instances where the involvement has come to light.
This time it’s in Sweden, where a down-to-the-wire just saw the left-wing Social Democrats, who have been in government since 1994 and for 65 of the last 74 years, lose by a narrow margin to a centre-right Alliance promising to cut taxes but not dismantle Sweden’s “social model”.
Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet apparently reveals the story (it’s in Swedish), and No Right Turn and this Swedish blog, Social Democracy, comment further.
Meanwhile, the Swedish Greens managed, despite the setback, to increase their vote from 4.6% to 5.2%, securing two more seats in Parliament (from 17 to 19). This interview with Swedish Green Spokesperson Peter Eriksson, while dated in terms of the election result (it was published in May) makes for interesting reading from a New Zealand Green perspective: he discusses what his party was able to achieve in the last Parliamentary term despite being passed over for ministerial posts by the Social Democrat government it supports. Some of the parallels are quite striking.
September 19th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Oh Dear Oh Dear
The grubby wing-nuts are toppling the worldwide leftist cabal
Come on you lot
cant you see the voters of these countries are getting sick and tired of left wing socialist policies and the welfare state and are voting for the chance think for themselves and spend their own money.
September 19th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
Alliance for Sweden won’t dismantle the welfare state. Only one of the four parties in the Alliance wanted to significantly alter (but still retain) the welfare system.
September 19th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
“Come on you lot”
Sigh. If you want to be so cavalier with your democracies fine. In Sweden it seems they were back to their old tricks of false names and addresses on material, front companies in the UK, the works.
What I would be interested in hearing is not whether Sweden’s “right” is particularly liberal or not (I suspect they are) but what their foreign policy is likely to be? Are they “gone by lunchtime” Iraq invaders or not? That seems to be a connection in other cases.
Any Swedes out there care to comment?
September 19th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
“voting for the chance think for themselves and spend their own money”
Are you saying they currently are unable to think for themselves? And, spend their own money? Apparently we live in a representative democratic society, so for a few to consume more goods and services than the majority is something we collectively allow. If some cheekily wish to take alot and give only a little back, we can choose to change this.
September 19th, 2006 at 8:20 pm
The welfare state, over many years, eases tension between the rich and the poor. People in society are less afraid and forget why it was instituted in the first place. The lack of residual fear and the overall comfort level within society then breeds a certain level of contempt for the institutions that have managed to keep the peace. Even scarier is the fact that the spirit in which the welfare systems were created is forgotten as they become institutions with a life committed only to their own survival. I think that this may be what people rebel against. Not the system itself but it’s lack of spirit.
September 19th, 2006 at 8:58 pm
Artyone gets a rec (recommendation), if the blog had them. That was as succinct and accurate a description of the way things work in societal terms as I have ever seen.
respectfully
BJ
>
September 19th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
VERY WELL SAID artyone !
September 20th, 2006 at 10:53 am
And in Australia also…
September 20th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Panda I agree with you and hope that NZ follows Sweden’s example at the next election (which I think might come sooner than expected)
It is about time we stopped funding the social engineering agenda of this sick government.
I would also like to see a binding referendum on MMP at the next election, the sooner we get rid of it the better.
September 20th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
big bruv: I agree, we should match Sweden. Raise our taxes to match theirs, except for their corporate rate which is too low. Increase our levels of welfare to match theirs. And Helen Clark’s government is sick, nearly as bad as Don’s party. Atleast she didn’t drop the tax rate though, and gave assistance to families that needed it.
And yes, MMP is awful, the 5% threshold is too high. The threshold should be one MP.
September 20th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Yeah… let’s do what the Swedish folks do… they went to a lot of trouble to actually calibrate their tax rates so that with taxes and benefits considered the effective tax on greater income was a monotonically increasing function. Here it falls off once you’ve got an income over 80K. Let’s have a top rate of 55%… PLEASE.
respectfully
BJ
September 21st, 2006 at 10:09 am
Ha ha..It seems the left are becoming increasingly nervous.
Face it BJC, lower personal and corporate taxes are on the way.
Anarchist..I could be convinced about the merits of MMP if the threshold was raised to 10%, the current system gives the minority a far bigger say in matters than they deserve.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:10 am
One more question…..Why are Labour/Greens so scared of the Brethren?
September 21st, 2006 at 10:26 am
Big Bruv,
Funny thing is that the current crop of labourites are actually from the fabians which, if I remember correctly, were the first bunch of christian socialists. But I think it boils down to the fact that the brethren are basically fundamentalists as opposed to most christians being more into metaphorical interpretation of the bible as opposed to a fundamentalist literal interpretation. So therefore the brethren don’t have to resort to factual argument and can appeal directly to peoples fears. It’s like letting an angry man run an anger management meeting. All the work thats been done to draw people away from their instinctive fears and look at problems with logic and the positive discrimination is washed away. I think thats why these people are to be feared… Oops, kept a close eye on.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:46 am
BTW bigbruv, the greens support lower personal + corporate taxes too.
We also support making up the shortfall with higher pollution taxes, but hey.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:53 am
I must say in the interest of being fair I would like to congratulate the Greens on their stance the election spending
I wonder if Helen Klark is now wondering if her slap in the face to the Greens after the last election was such a good idea
September 21st, 2006 at 11:40 am
Arty
Don’t get me wrong, I am no fan of the Brethren (or Religion in general) but the fact is these people have the right to spend their own money how they see fit.
What I find offensive is the way they are being attacked by Klarke for no other reason than they wanted a change of government, that to me smacks of communism.
Stuey
Good, we agree on lower taxes, we do not agree on pollution charges, that is just ridiculous.
September 21st, 2006 at 12:03 pm
Bruv, do they? I suppose they do. As current legislation stands but they are treading a fine line. At least I think they are. As far as I understand we have no rights as regards how we spend our money. If anything we are under an obligation to spend our money as we see fit to steer the course of consumerism given the laws, both factual and in spirit, of the land. In that respect you could almost say that they are breaking the law in spirit because, as far as I understand it, the government is a secular institution and therefore, in the spirit of fair play, religion should stay away from concerted efforts to play with democracy. They can build as many churches as they like and convince their punters to vote whichever way they choose but unless they become a political party and follow the rules inherent in the democratic process they should be stopped from playing in the grey areas that we haven’t thought to create laws around simply because that area is well understood to be one nobody, acting under the guise of fair play, would go into. This is their obligation within a democracy.
September 21st, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Help, the gratuitous use of the letter ‘k’ is making an appearance. Please, save it for people that kare, try Sir Humph’s or kiwiblog, they think it is funny over there.
September 21st, 2006 at 1:04 pm
as for the Brethren , if they campaign openly and are willing to justify their position to public scrutiny, like the Destiny Church, unions, Helen Clark and Don Brash, rather than hiding behind false names, false addresses and fake companies, bring them on. Until they do that and prove some respect for one of NZ’s core values - democracy - they can get stuffed, nothing to do with their religion.
September 21st, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Jeeves.
You must be “havin a laugh”..Klarke is not interested in democracy, nor are most on the left, you only have to look at the ridiculous resource management act to see that.
She stamps out (or attempts to stamp out) anybody who dares to argue with her.
P.S…Pay back the money you stole from me please Helen.
September 21st, 2006 at 2:10 pm
BB - and your point is? …I mean, besides gloating over something that happened on the other side of the planet owing to dishonesty.
Reminds me a little of the USA which is governed by a minority government because a very similar group of people cheated. Will it come good? Yes. Will blood be shed? Likely in the end. The repression is only just started.
You are welcome to come here with your opinions, even though they fill a much needed silence, We would of course actually VALUE more meaningful contributions… if you are capable of making them.
BJ
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:18 am
I agree all advertising should be legal, even by the brethren if people are dumb enuff to be convinced by a few pamphlets then they shouldn’t be able to vote, i am sick of the left-minded thought that we should allow everyone into our country after they have over-populated theirs, its a disgrace because all that will do is over-populate our country aswell.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:00 am
ekstatek
Why did our ancestors (yours and mine) come here? Mine came for a better life in a country where that was possible.
I do agree with you about overpopulation however … and about intergration into a friendly and basically egalitarian Aotearoa/NZ.
My reading of the current reasons for migration is that they are rather more “right” than “left” in that the exponents talk about “more consumers” and “more workers” to produce the consumables for local and for overseas “markets”.
September 22nd, 2006 at 8:16 am
Speaking of immigration….why the hell are we letting in another 300 potential terrorists!
We should be bringing in people who can add to the country not bludge off it.
September 22nd, 2006 at 10:15 am
Why should we be allowing some people in as refugees? It is one of those social contract things, and somewhat involved, but the logic I offer is this.
We are the proud possessors of a lifeboat. We aren’t the only ones, but we have one.
We have room for a limited number of people in the lifeboat, and only a few empty places remain.
A whole lot of people, some of whom may die if they fail, want to get into the lifeboats.
If we tell them all “No way” there is no support for our position from other nations and as we offer no respect for their human rights, they are not obliged to have any respect for our own. If we accept a number of them in support of the UN refugee programs the respect and the support stay in place.
…and some of us can still sleep nights, and look at ourselves in the mirror.
Not simple, but such things seldom are.
You want a better class of migrant? Make it clear that the rules favour them and that you really do want them. When I came from the USA it was quite nearly impossible to migrate here… and from the questions I get from my compatriots still there, the impression our immigration service made then is still predominant. The rules are easier now, but most of my former co-workers don’t know that.
It’s actually too late for some of them now. Selling the house and moving isn’t an easy option when the value of the place just dropped 10% in the past couple of months and you’re suddenly underwater in your loan.
respectfully
BJ
September 24th, 2006 at 10:55 pm
Lets not forget the others, such as the liquor industry. They had their own lobbiest in parliment until Mat Robsin got his parlimentary pass revoked.
Henry
PS I have had dealings with the Brethertons, the’re a wierd mob, percieving the likes of me to have unclean thoughts.
September 25th, 2006 at 12:12 am
…and do you Henry?
September 25th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Hey bigbruv, I think you need to make more use of the IMHO acronym. Or at least offer some justification or some references for your sweeping statements that anything you diagree with is “ridiculous”.