The Greens’ new best friends
Something curious is happening out there in the provincial newspapers. Check out these quotes from various Labour MPs:
Steve Chadwick in The Daily Post (Rotorua) on Wednesday (offline):
Meanwhile, she thought the Green Party had been given a raw deal by being left out of the formal coalition, Mrs Chadwick said.“The Greens acted with absolute integrity … many of their initiatives were great.”
Jill Pettis in the Wanganui Chronicle on Tuesday:
Mrs Pettis was also delighted the Greens had come to an agreement with Labour on policy areas.
Greens and Labour had worked together successfully and built up good relationship on a personal as well as a professional level, she said.
Damien O’Connor in Greymouth Evening Star on Tuesday (offline):
“The objectives they have - more solar panels, more public transport in Auckland and Wellington - they’re very sound policies.
O’Connor again, this time in The News - Westport also on Tuesday (offline):
“While we have some different policies occasionally, even ones the Greens have laid down are sensible in terms of their key committments. The ones on public transport, solar heating and Buy New Zealand are things most New Zealanders would endorse.”
O’Connor qualifies both his quotes with statements that either Labour supporters or the public generally would not be overly upset that the Greens aren’t in the Government, but from one of Labour’s least-left MPs who represents a region where the Greens are hardly popular, these are still a couple of remarkably friendly admissions.
What is going on here? Supposedly, post-election, the provinces are even more hostile to the Greens than they are to Labour. Why are Labour MPs suddenly trying to be the Greens’ new best friends?
My first theory: Actually the Greens are more popular in the provinces than Labour, and their local MPs have figured out it’s a good idea to appear to be buddies.
My second, better, theory: The ninth floor of the Beehive has given them instructions to schmuse the Greens publicly because it’s in Labour’s long-term interest for their disaffected leftish voters to go to the Greens rather than NZ First.
My third, less cynical, theory: They actually mean it, because they’re actually quite uncomfortable with the Government they’re now a part of.
Do we have anyone here from Rotorua, Wanganui, Greymouth or Westport? What’s the happs in your parts? Does it strike you as strange that your local Labourites are singing the Greens’ praises?
October 21st, 2005 at 10:54 am
I think it reflects the reality of the campaign. In my area, Rakaia, Labour was under attack from almost every other party (NZ First, United Future, National, Act) but my Green opponent and I got along very well. We even helped fix each others hoardings when they went down. My understanding is that the Greens and Labour were on friendly and co-operative terms in most electorates. And it reflects that Labour/Greens have a lot of common policies, ideas and values. And I also think it reflects the “greening” of NZ in general. People are starting to look beyond the scaremongering when it comes to the Greens and realising they have some sensible ideas and have an important role to play in our democracy.
October 21st, 2005 at 11:08 am
I have cousins who live on the Coast, and they’re fervently anti-Green, and at first those Damien O’Connor statements really surprised me, given my perception of his seat as right-Labour, pro-mining, pro-forestry, etc. The party vote on the Coast very narrowly went National. But the Green vote there was the third largest, after the two major parties, so you’d have to say there must be some constituency there.
I hear rumours from the Nelson-Marlborough region that a lot of artistic hippy types who can no longer afford property prices there have moved to the Coast, but that is hearsay.
October 21st, 2005 at 11:11 am
It’s not just in the provincies, it’s nationally. On wednesday, apparantly new energy and transport minister David Parker said something like I’m unexperienced … so I’ll be asking the Greens for their advice … they’ve been thinking about these issues more than anyone else.
Aside from Steve Chadwicks comment, they are all about policy.
I think it is because the vast majority of Labour members and a good whack of Labour voters would prefer a Labour-Green government, and this is Labour’s way of emphasising that we are still heavily involved with Labour, and that this government will acheive green policies.
October 21st, 2005 at 12:06 pm
Hell, Frog, I’m slightly to the right of Ghenghis Kahn and still think you guys got the raw genetically-modified prawn. I think stuey has a point: Is anyone - left, right or otherwise - really buying Winston’s “I’m not in the Government, I’m not in Cabinet, I’m certainly not taking the pills” line? Labour better swallow hard and start making nice to the Greens - because you’re going to be a more reliable ally than Winsome.
October 21st, 2005 at 12:17 pm
Fact is no-one could love this government.
I know a bloke - was a citizen for Rowling, voted Labour all his life, has been waiting 18 years for Labour to straighten up and do what it promised in ‘87. He’d rather have Muldoon than Peters. Reckon his sense of humour has just about run out.
I wouldn’t like to be his electorate MP.
Labour faces a real prospect of collapse of public support, and while the Greens may benefit in the long term, the short term will be… fluid.
October 21st, 2005 at 3:43 pm
I don’t think Damien O’Connor has ever cared much about what the Coast thinks of him - he seems to get re-elected without actually being liked by anyone (as far as I can tell).
As for the Coast being more pro-Green, I’d have to say that’s not likely. Round these parts (Greymouth) people are still rabidly anti-Green and more and more people are anti-Labour (”politically correct, social engineering”, etc). When we first moved here 5 years ago, people would chat to us, ask us where we came from. When we said Wellington, they’d look us in the eye and say “you’re not *** Greenies are you?” Whereas in the north of the electorate, up Golden Bay way, the Greens do really well and are popular.
But people from the cities are moving here and things will change, even if the locals don’t like it. Heck, there are even vegetarian options in some cafes.
October 21st, 2005 at 9:22 pm
Both (2) and (3) I would say.
October 21st, 2005 at 9:56 pm
Stuey, that’s pretty interesting about David Parker… Nats have already bagged him for being too inexperienced for such a crucial portfolio… has Clark set him up to be under Green influence? … that would be lovely.
Interesting to see who he appoints as policy advisors etc…
It would be ironic if the Greens actually turned out to be more influential, in terms of policy, than NZF… Winsome plays with his baubles while we get down to business…
Hey, maybe he’s twigged, and that’s what the ructions over seating in the House are about?
October 22nd, 2005 at 11:01 am
I think triffid made a good point about the coast, the difference between those in the buller/grey area and those up in golden bay is huge. The comments O’Conner made could be mainly for their ears, but in my experience the whole west coast is divided between people concerned with the primary extraction industries and hippies. (i.e. those ‘alternative’ types who are quite likely to vote green… or alcp).
October 22nd, 2005 at 12:14 pm
Greens and Labour will always be friends unless Greens push any particular policy too hard, or Labour does. An alignment in which much is done that Greens would approve of and advocate, despite not being ‘officially’ in government is pretty much a win, especially when their absence from government is entirely on the insistence of the other parties.
I think Peters entire preoccupation is with not being called a liar. In every other way he’s comfortable with the outcome. The only danger is Dunne because he’s so aligned against Greens. Hopefully his sad legacy will soon be at an end. I’m sure people can see that the ridiculous ‘on paper’ changes which have to be made to all of our constitutional conventions come entirely from the refusal of this ‘centrist’ to accept a government containing the Greens. Couldn’t he just have an uneasy truce, objecting only when anything really against his principles is raised? No, he’d rather wield his 3 votes like a veto.
I’m surprised to read this morning that people see this as a failing of MMP. Would they rather have the FPP result which would have been National + ACT + UF + NZF, despite also (according to the stats) being happy that we now have a Labour government? People can say what they like about MMP failing to deliver, but the truth is the election was close and the government we get reflects that by truly reflecting the indecision of the population. When we’re unable to make a clear choice, the mixed bag we have is by far the best and most sensible course. Perhaps it will be three years of only pushing the most sensible and popular policies, and pretty much just debating the rest until the next big poll when the outcome of the debate can be chosen.
If we really do get some Green energy and public transport initiatives, I will consider that a really good outcome for the Greens, as it will put them squarely in the ‘rational and effective’ camp, rather than radicals. I would dearly have loved to see Green drug policy getting some air, but it looks like people are going to take some more convincing before they let all those people out of prison and the closet. 3 years of debate and studies could do it, along with some solid progress on energy efficiency.
October 22nd, 2005 at 1:18 pm
well, I’m related to red-neck Labour voters in the Horowhenua/Manawatu area, who have been pushing my buttons about Green policy for a decade or so.
Got a birthday card and a polite e-mail post election, WTF was that about, I thought at the time, but now I realise the truth: my family are finally trying to suck up to me
Better late than never, eh?
October 23rd, 2005 at 11:18 am
What gives? Every time I post it doesn’t show up. Is this not an open thread?
October 23rd, 2005 at 11:10 pm
Ben
There’s some auto-filtering that gets triggered if you use some of a long list of words related to spam and offensiveness which frog posted a month or so ago. It isn’t real easy to know what the words are, some are REAL weird… it also gets triggered if you have more than 2 links in your post. Frog SOMETIMES manages to set it up so that it tells you that it is “awaiting moderation” but that hasn’t worked for me for at least 2 weeks. With Frog off fishing or ferrying crates of stuff through the Beehive, the moderation won’t happen for another day.
That’s as best I know. I’ve posted a few like that myself, and been real puzzled.
respectfully
BJ
October 24th, 2005 at 12:18 am
yeah so the frogmaster can moderate comments too, so you don’t have to wait until tuesday. The list of words that send a comment into the moderation queue is actually only to catch spam trackbacks - this software treats user comments and trackbacks as equivalents so it has to do both - it’s a pain, but I don’t want to ban trackbacks. (I expect there are other spam blocking plug-ins we could try that only block trackbacks and not user comments, but it’s not high on the list of priorities).
Meanwhile I have removed a couple of words from the list, e.g. drug, that might be commonly used - the rest are pretty obscure. It’s not done for offensiveness. The only offensive word on the list is penis, and that is only because it is common in spam.
He he maybe we should add fwwog to the list.
October 24th, 2005 at 1:48 am
No worries. Someone’s gotta stop all this forum spam. :0 I think I used the word darned, but I was talking about my socks…
October 24th, 2005 at 11:22 am
I second that motion, frogmaster,
can we formally take a vote on that, bloggers?
normal democracy applies, peterquixote, that means you have only yourself to vote/blame for this!
like the little devil mask, how do you get that???
katie
October 24th, 2005 at 12:30 pm
this software supports all the same emoticons as other open source software such as the forum package phpBB. So if you go into any phpBB forum, e.g.
http://www.nandor.net.nz/bb/
http://www.norml.org.nz/modules.php?name=Forums
http://forum.greens.org.nz/
and write a post, you’ll see all the emoticons beside the posting window. Clicking on one of those will place the emoticon into your post, and the code for it will be displayed. The code for the devil smilie is : twisted : with no spaces. Also try
: oops :
: roll :
: lol :
: shock :
: evil :
: wink :
but remember, remove the spaces between the : and the word.