by Catherine Delahunty
As New Zealand starts experiencing a wave of educational reforms, real debate about what actually works for schools is crucial.
On Thursday morning I am hosting an education forum at Parliament with special guest Pasi Sahlberg from Finland and Associate Professor Graeme Aitken of Auckland University. My co-host is fellow Education Select Committee member Scott Simpson.
This forum is an opportunity to hear from two leading educationalists.
Pasi has been touring, and talking about Finland’s strategy, which has lead to sustained international success in education.
They’ve achieved that by attracting the best people into education and building school systems based on the pedagogy of quality education for all. This means teaching has high status and remedial support in subjects is available to every student as a norm.
Pasi argues that Finland has succeeded with many migrant cultures in their city schools by maintaining a focus on equity and a consistent Government commitment to eradicating child poverty. There, every student gets a free lunch!
Pasi has named the standardised testing, competitive and privatisation models that are infecting the world GERM (Global Education Reform Movement) and describes how the Finns have succeeded by building a consensus around the priority education has and the model that’s best to deliver it.
Unlike KIPP and other Charter school models, the Finns achieve high academic results in much shorter school hours, with a focus on play and creativity.
I am looking forward to hearing from him and from Graeme Aitken because our own educationalists also need to be heard.
Educational debate is vital and key tests for educational ideas right now have to include – do they strengthen the identity and confidence of all learners especially tangata whenua and Pasifika students? And will they help Christchurch school children regain their sense of stability and love of learning?
Published in Society & Culture by Catherine Delahunty on Tue, October 2nd, 2012
More posts by Catherine Delahunty | more about Catherine Delahunty
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
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sprout says “In Pasi’s Finland teachers are regarded as professionals, not technicians (as they are by this government). ”
That’s because they ARE professionals in Finland.
Instead of having ONLY top quality teachers in NZ, we also have some pretty bad ones who are protected by the unions.
Sprout says “Imagine what would happen if medical assessments and treatments were determined by political ideology.”
You don’t have to imagine. It’s already been done, with great results.
Do you not see the regular half page newspaper ads with countrywide results comparing performances of DHBs? Effectively DHP performance league tables.
They’ve been happening for quite a while now and are a great incentive for DHBs.
And there’s been quite a lot of improvement since the comparisons and published results started.
It’s worked really well and countered performances that had been getting worse and worse for years.
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Saves trying to fix the real problems. government ineptitude, neo-liberal economic failure and unjustifiable incomes/wealth at the top, I suppose.
And. the health systems performance was getting worse because of the corporate management style by ignorant bean counters. Just like NACT plans with education.
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Unfortunately, Photo is correct in this statement.
I know of a school which has a terrible teacher, and in one of the core subjects, and parents ask year on year why she isn’t dumped, rather than being promoted.
The recently published national standards confirms that her students do less well in this area than in the other area(s) in which they are measured.
As someone (I can’t recall who) said in another thread in another time on this very blog, we already know which the underperforming schools are. But its not underperforming schools, its underperforming teachers, and heads seem powerless to fix it. Or maybe the head doesn’t want to fix it. I don’t know. All I know is this awful teacher continues to ruin the lives of kids, and nothing is being done about it.
Ok, this is a sample size of one, but it illustrates that Kerry’s attempt to discredit the possibility that “teachers need fixing” is unsubstantiated in at least one case. FOr all I know, there may be loads more.
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No DBuckley, your sample size is much larger than one. You have a single instance in a large group of teachers that you have heard of. I have heard of none such in the schools my Son and Daughter attend. I examine our overall performance as a nation on the PISA exam which compares countries, and we don’t underperform. So the approach Photonz and the rest of the National sycophants are promoting is not (and CAN not) be aimed at improving teaching performance or schools. Which absolutely begs the question of why they undertake these changes. With some nasty answers likely.
Worse of course is that there is nothing like the pay or respect for teachers here that there is in Finland. Which means (among other things) that any competition for teachers to replace this poor performer is going to be a new graduate if anyone can be found at all.
It doesn’t pay to be a teacher here. You have to really want to do it, AND have a spouse with a decent job. So our performance on these measures is remarkable tribute to a lot of people who are quite dedicated and who make a lot of SACRIFICES to give kids a good learning experience.
So if you think we’re being a little hard on National here, it is still far less hard than they actually are deserving.
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Significant that one bad Teacher stands out so much. Don’t you think!
Nobody is surprised to find a dodgy financier, crooked lawyer or incompetent politician!
It is also funny that the same people who think that managers and directors need hundreds of thousands a year, to motivate them to do their job, think they will get good teachers by underpaying, micro-managing, giving constant ignorant criticism and making working conditions as difficult as possible.
It shows the dedication of the majority of teachers, that they stay in the job despite all the crap that gets thrown at them.
The process for getting rid of an incompetent teacher is no different from the process in any other job.
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The process for getting rid of an incompetent teacher is no different from the process in any other job. If there is one still teaching that is entirely a management failure.
Which can be laid at the door of those who brought in yet another politically motivated fuckup. Tomorrows schools.
No easier to sack a teacher in Finland. There Unions are much more powerful than here. Even striking is illegal in NZ.
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Kerry doesn’t let facts get in the way of his cultish beliefs – “And. the health systems performance was getting worse because of the corporate management style by ignorant bean counters. ”
Patients getting cancer treatment within 4 weeks.
65% in 07/08
100% in 2012.
Immunisation for 2 year olds
76% in 07/08
93% in 2012.
How many DHBs hit their targets so we would get an extra 4000 operations
- 100% (the actual increase was 13,000 operations)
So by measuring and comparing we’ve been better able to identify problem areas, better able to see what is working and what is not, and hence the huge improvements in measurable health outcomes over such a short period.
But for some reason teachers are apparently completely above criticism and every one of them does a fantastic job. The vast majority of them do – the vast majority.
But if people don’t even acknowledge there are problem teachers, then we can throw away any chance of that improving.
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bj says “It doesn’t pay to be a teacher here. ”
Average teacher pay in 2012 is $71,526. ($73,995 average secondary, $69,660 average primary).
If you think that’s not much, you must be one of those rich pricks many here complain about.
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The average pay for teaching is lower than that as those figures include amounts for management positions.
Only teachers who have taught for 7 years and met required professional standards (boards of trustees and principals determine this) get anything like these figures – c$70,000.
The starting pay is $45-47,000 for primary and $47,000 for secondary.
http://www.teachnz.govt.nz/teaching-in-new-zealand/salaries/
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As for health board measures, the same criticism as for NS applies. Teachers working to test requirements rather than wider education and health boards working to met operation targets at the expense of wider health needs. Most outcare funding (not measured) is being reduced and those dependent in their homes for care and health checks are receiving a cut back service. This undermines their standard of living and health.
I am not sure as to how long understaffed hospitals can perform a greater number of operations without burning out – the one real gain is better focus on operating theatre availability and logistical flow, the rest is achieved by placing expectations on staff that is not sustainable without improved resourcing.
It may place on staff pressure to accept zero wage rounds so more staff are affordable within the budget, but staff have better pay and work conditions on offer over the Tasman.
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SPC says “The average pay for teaching is lower than that as those figures include amounts for management positions.”
Those are the average teacher pay figures from the Ministry of Education.
As you said yourself, a teacher with only 7 years experience can be on $70,000.
As for your claim of cuts in health funding – it’s increased 40% from $10b in 2007 to $14b in 2012.
That’s a $4000 MILLION INCREASE ! Per year.
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That the average pay is calculated including management pay only some teachers receive, means teachers do not receive that much on average TO TEACH.
The top teacher pay is $70,000 – those teaching less than 7 years, have pay ranging from $47 to $70,000, THUS the average to teach must be below $70,000. Depending on the make up of staff at a school it could be a lot less.
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I suppose your conflation of my statement that health boards are cutting back out patient care service standards with overall health funding cuts is just an attempt at diversion from the point.
Any specific focus on measurable standard – comes at the cost of other services not so measured. As costs for the former will go up. If there was extra funding to enable the improved surgical performance, then there would not need to be cuts elsewhere. Yet these are occuring and they are impacting on well-being and health of those requiring out care.
It is well known that health requires more funding each year to just maintain existing services because of the aging of the population and the growing problem of obesity – diabetes etc. Quite apart from the growing cost of keeping up with technology advances and drug cost increases.
I wonder why you relate 2007 expenduiture to 2012? Why not 2009 to 2012?
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More about Pasi: http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/why-finland-leads-in-education.html
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Photonz1, some suggestions to improve teacher quality (even though our worst teachers probably out perform many in other countries):
-Rehire all the advisors that National sacked.
-Bring back professional development that meets teacher need not a government agenda
-Raise the status of teaching so that people want to do the job
-Remove the endless hours of assessment, data collection and replace it with time to plan exciting learning activities.
-Stop the government from continually blaming teachers for the effects of poverty and income inequities that they have exacerbated.
-Ensure we have enough support for high needs children and restore the $25 million funding cut to ministry that has reduced frontline staff.
But I guess it is cheaper to just blame the teachers and watch our quality education system erode…
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sprout – where is all the money to do all those things going to come from?
I dont think there are enough rich pricks. Not with everything else you no doubt plan to do and with allowing for the loss of tax revenue from all the jobs that will be lost in assorted unapproved industries such as mining and dairy farming.
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SPC says “The top teacher pay is $70,000 – those teaching less than 7 years, have pay ranging from $47 to $70,000, THUS the average to teach must be below $70,000.”
Duh!! Some teachers have taught for more than 7 years. MANY teachers have managerial roles and extra credits.
Average teacher pay is average teacher pay.
To make it look as low as possible, you now want to exclude any teachers with any type of managerial role, any teacher who has gained extra credits, and any teacher with more than 7 years experience.
In other words, for YOUR average teacher pay, you exclude MOST teachers.
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They do not get paid more TO TEACH after 7 years, unless they take longer to go through the teacher standard assessments.
Only a minority get paid for the extra managerial work in addition to their teaching. Most teachers do not get this “overtime” work pay, though many do work unpaid in providing coaching etc for school activities (such as sports).
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SPC says “They do not get paid more TO TEACH after 7 years”
Complaining about a 70,000 salary, even after just 7 years – are we supposed to think 70,000 is living in poverty?
Most nurses would love to get a teacher pay, and the holidays.
SPC – some advice – you’ll never win an arguement that teachers are poorly paid.
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Sprout says “Ensure we have enough support for high needs children and restore the $25 million funding cut to ministry that has reduced frontline staff.”
Far from a $25m cut, total education spending, and special needs spending, have gone up.
$9,269 million – Total Education Spending 2007
$11,883 million – Total Education Spending 2012
$263 million – Special Needs Education Spending 2007
$321 million – Special Needs Education Spending 2012
If there’s not enough money for everything, as you claim, what good did spending an extra $2,000 million per year achieve?
Sprout says “Raise the status of teaching so that people want to do the job”
And protecting useless teachers and keeping them in work will help raise the status?
Sprout says “-Remove the endless hours of assessment, data collection and replace it with time to plan exciting learning activities.”
We’ve had the argeuement that National Standards are no different to what was being done. Now we get the opposite arguement.
Opponents need to make up their mind on which false arguement they want to use.
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We were debating what the average pay of a teacher was. You want to move on (reframe the issue) because you cannot defend your original claim.
If the most a teacher gets for teaching is $70,000, the average for teaching is less.
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Most nurses do get the teachers pay, their pay is similar.
It’s $45-47,000 to $70,000 over 7 years for teachers. They however have to assume managerial roles to match the pay of more senior nurses.
Nurses with one to three years’ experience earn between $45,000 and $52,000 a year.
Those with three to eight years’ experience can earn between $52,000 and $67,000.
Senior nurses with more than eight years’ experience earn from $65,000 to $103,000.
http://www.careers.govt.nz/default.aspx?id0=60103&id1=j35111
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I note you again compare 2007 figures with 2012 spending figures (originally for health, now education).
Why not 2009, with 2012 – the period under National?
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Oh dear, Photonz1, you didn’t know that most of the new education spending involves the $1.2 billion that is needed to fix all the leaking school buildings caused by National’s building regulation stuff up in the 90s.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10764979
There is little new money going to support children’s learning. Given that your spending comparison is over 5 years, I wonder how much that means in real terms per child? National is very good at throwing around figures to make it seem they are doing a good job but just a little analysis exposes their dishonesty.
Also remember Photonz1 that many of the extra millions are being spent on private schools, not the public system.
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SPC – teachers are paid on AVERAGE $5900 each in addition to their standard pay for usits earned for extra responsibilities or skills.
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Sprout scores a great own goal with
“Oh dear, Photonz1, you didn’t know that most of the new education spending involves the $1.2 billion that is needed to fix all the leaking school buildings caused by National’s building regulation stuff up in the 90s”
After claiming most of the $2000 million additional spending each year is taken up by fixing leaky buildings, he links to a story that says the annual budget for leaky buildings is $82 million.
Lucky you’re not a 7 year old at school – you’d stuff up your National Standards maths with that one.
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