by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Sun, April 22nd, 2012
Tags: general debate
General debate, April 22, 2012
Published: April 22, 2012
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* The precedent of needing commercial sponsors to pay for things that I think we should be doing anyway. What happens when this contract runs out if the commercial environment’s less viable in future?
* The likeliness that only highly visible and popular things will ever gain sponsorship, or that DoC will need to sacrifice other things to get the money it needs.
* The emphasis of this particular deal on sponsoring Great Walks, which are already highly saturated with visitors. I’m hoping that Air NZ is merely trying to poach tourists from other airlines rather than pull in even more Great Walk tourists. I’m also hoping the tourist back-country experience doesn’t become a heavily commercialised junket, such as by renaming all the huts people stay in to indicate sponsor’s names. It wouldn’t be the first time the back-country’s seen commercial sponsorship in such ways (eg. Walking up to Sunrise Hut in the Ruahine Range has a heap of signs sponsored by a local business), but it’d be the first major time.
* What’s meant by a “high end group experience” and how will it effect remote back-country and environmental programmes? eg. Does it mean flying tourists from high-dollar-value countries to Kakapo breeding sites? Does it mean building Air NZ mansions in remote places and flying in people with lots of airpoints? So far the press releases have been very non-specific about this, as well as I’ve been able to find.
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http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/national-hell-bent-on-selling-new.html
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Romney is a joke
It’s little wonder that Barack Obama’s so-called Truth Team has decided to make fun of the opposition. What else can they do when presented with such vast amounts of material…
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$1.7 trillion wasted on war
Spending so much money on war is not only a waste because there are far more humanitarian and productive undertakings that deserve those funds, it’s a complete waste of human potential as well…
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17%
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The same media has maintained a deathly silence about all the other land sales and now has highlighted the Crafar sale (and the farms were in the public eye before the sale, due to other concerns), so what did they expect?
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Sam,
Would it be fair to say that the Green party maintaned a deathly silence while far more frequent and larger in volume farm sales were transacted under the last Labour party government?
Sales to people in Lichtenstein, Germany, etc.
Political point scoring by the Greens or genuine concern about land sales?
Would the Greens have a policy to nationalise the already sold to foreigners farms?
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Dunno, the Green Party has spoken out against foreign ownership in the past, so I don’t think you can say it’s been a ‘deathly silence’ (you could possibly claim its been inadequate, but all parties tend to deal with concerns that are in the public arena at the time). The Greens response isn’t a particular concern of mine, so you’ll have to ask the Green Party about it.
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My despair with what is happening in education has changed to horror when I witnessed the treatment dished out to Moerewa School and its community. Shocking and unforgivable!
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/lesley-longstone-management-style.html
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Speaking of such things, Fonterra recently chose to invest in farms in China, presumably they believe China is a better bet than NZ for dairy investment, otherwise they’d invest at home. So much for our much vaunted comparative advantage.
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It’s more a case of Fonterra increasing production to the world market and that means more produced offshore – the already have farmers supplying them in New Zealand.
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Low value exports fail
The Productivity Commission released its International freight transport services report (PDF) today. I’ve highlighted a few extracts, and the one that really stood out for me was about the additional cost New Zealand faces because of the distance to our offshore markets…
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“It’s more a case of Fonterra increasing production to the world market and that means more produced offshore”
Exactly – Fonterra are judging that it’s no longer economic to produce things here and ship it overseas, better to produce elsewhere. Good from an environmental perspective but a bit of a worry for the economy.
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It’s more a case of there being little capacity left to increase production here, even if we were prepared to exacerbate environment problems. So Fonterra can only grow via offshore production or added value or bio-tech.
The local exports are still profitable, the cost problem is not so much transport as the cost of land/servicing debt.
But sure, offshore production close to offshore markets makes sense.
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Jackal says “and the one that really stood out for me was about the additional cost New Zealand faces because of the distance to our offshore markets…”
I thought it would be blatantly obvious, that as the most remote country on the planet from main world markets (and a very small country), we would face significant additional freight costs.
In the mid 2000s we had massive stockpiles of logs on our wharves because all the bulk carriers were being chartered by Australian mining companies and there were no ships to move logs.
It would make sense add value (and jobs) by manufacturing the logs into at least sawn timber, if not finished products, but we need more free trade agreements as so many countries have high tarrifs on our sawn timber and timber products.
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photonz1
The first part of your sentence I agree with, but free trade agreements aren’t going to resolve the issue. If an effect of a free trade agreement is to disincentives our own productive sector, then it’s not a worthwhile agreement in the first place photonz1.
The other problem is that having such a huge low value export sector pushes up prices here. Our building materials are around 35% more than in Australia for instance. This means less houses being built, which directly effects society.
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jackal says “If an effect of a free trade agreement is to disincentives our own productive sector, then it’s not a worthwhile agreement in the first place photonz1.”
When we have very few tarrifs, free trade agreements offer a lot of advantages for us.
Jackal says “The other problem is that having such a huge low value export sector pushes up prices here. Our building materials are around 35% more than in Australia for instance. ”
That’s mainly to do with factors including –
1/ us being a small market at the end of the globe,
2/ with a small number of major suppliers controlling material prices
3/ and building new houses, one at a time, all to different specifications, by very small companies.
In Australia they mass produce to a point where I can pick up a brochure, tick the boxes for a house plan, cladding type, roof colour, appliances, heating, bathroom fittings, right down to bedroom paint colour and curtain material.
In five minutes I’ve made every decision I need to make, whereas the same planning alone in NZ would take months, and need to be done through a large number of different suppliers, each wanting their cut.
Don’t underestimate how much saving you can get from scale. A friend built a house last year and got the bathroom companies to tender for all fittings three bathrooms. Effectively, just by doing that, he paid for two bathrooms and was supplied three.
In todays paper a German company is importing insulation that is HALF the cost of what is currently available.
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@ photonz1
We might be a small market but we produce a lot of building material. This and the distance to our markets should actually work to our advantage to keep building product prices low.
Companies like Fletcher Building are jumping up and down about foreign products undercutting theirs. The main reason for this is that they’re terribly overpriced to begin with. New Zealand unfortunately creates monopolies and importing products can only go so far in rectifying them. In my opinion, our building material industry needs intervention from the government to increase local market trading and competition. We’re unlikely to see this from National though.
You would think that our comparatively low wages would keep building costs down. I think the scale of building projects doesn’t count much in terms of building material cost. Unfortunately it’s all about the middle men and exporting low value product. Chop out the middle men, create competition, train more and reduce low value exports… problems solved.
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When we have very few tarrifs, free trade agreements offer a lot of advantages for us.
Given our competitive DISadvantages, that is considerably more ideological than otherwise. In fact, given those disadvantages, the lack of some balancing effort at the societal (read that as governmental) level CONDEMNS us to low value primary production.
In other words, tenant farming.
That’s your economy in a nutshell Photonz, and a more appropriate receptacle would be hard to find.
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Could WE make them cheaper? yeah…. even by hand in our basements. If we did the importer would drop the price to put us out of business.
$20 here except in the built-into-the-wall form that is required by code in every new bathroom and only imported by one company.
Go ahead Photonz… deregulate and free trade us into peonage… at some point you ideologues are going to figure out that more of the medicine that makes you sick, will not make you well. We can always re-nationalize, re-regulate and rebuild after you have completely trashed the country… but it is going to cost us all more than it was ever worth, even to the rich-pricks who think they own it.
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Dunne doctors suicide stats
It’s despicable of Peter Dunne to try to manipulate the public concerning suicide statistics to promote the governments policies…
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I’m not convinced the numbers are rising as you’ve stated (12.20, 12.04, 12.26, 12.65). To me it looks more as if they’re staying on roughly the same flat line around the 12.5 mark as it was with most of the Labour led government since about 2002. We’re talking about roughly 1/1000th of the entire population, and it should be expected to jump around a little in the short term. It’d be better for a qualified person to make such a judgement than me, though.
Politicians have manipulated information to suggest good things of their administration since the beginning of politics, and Dunne’s being himself. I think a more relevant observation, not that it’ll make any difference, is that NZ media outlets suck at serious statistical analysis, along with many other forms of analysis that aren’t taught in modern journalism schools, and they only have a limited comfort zone within which they’re happy to challenge information that’s provided from potentially biased sources and hold Ministers and other MPs to account. If there was an easy fix for this that didn’t conflict with politics then it probably would’ve happened long ago.
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So the article states; “44.1 per 100,000 in 1995″ (when the actual figure is 15.1) and Peter Dunne says “The declining rate is very encouraging” when the provisional statistics show an increase of 5% between 2008 and 2011… and you’re not convinced this is dodgy because:
The article was propaganda at its worst! It ignored relevant data and provided incorrect figures. Considering this is suicides we are talking about, I would have thought the government would treat the statistics with a little respect.
My word, the link you provided shows a high rate of suicide throughout the 90′s while National was in power. It shows a decline of around 20% during Labours last governance. So what are you talking about MikeM?
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Who else has discovered our Kiwi Goddess, Kimbra, set to become an international superstar. Sooo much talent. She’s only 21!!!
Try these for a start…
http://youtu.be/6i1mr9amqeg
http://youtu.be/5XjNlpe7hII
http://omroep.vara.nl/media/92375
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A double dip recession in the UK.
I guess retrenchment has its consequences when there is no dairy price boom or earthquake rebuild.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17836624
Polling shows widespread perception of unfairness in the political/economic system.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17847372
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Sorry @Jackal, I didn’t notice the reference to youth suicide so didn’t look at it (and now I don’t have time to check it out properly).
My word, the link you provided shows a high rate of suicide throughout the 90′s while National was in power. It shows a decline of around 20% during Labours last governance. So what are you talking about MikeM?
My point was that it wasn’t necessarily rising since National came into power so much as remaining flatly consistent with about the same level Labour’s government left it at for most of the time since about 2000. This is in reference to the total rate, not the youth rate, so maybe I sidestepped your thing somehow, and I’m really not qualified to analyse stats like these on my own in any case.
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Researchers at the Universities of Liverpool, Maastricht in the Netherlands, and Auckland found that children who experienced childhood trauma were three times more likely to develop schizophrenia in later life.
Their findings were based on a meta-analysis of 46 studies involving 80,000 subjects, covering physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, bullying, and parental death.
That pointed to primary prevention implications. “These things can be prevented if we provided safe, nurturing childhoods.” That was quite different from the viewpoint that they were biological illnesses, about which nothing could be done. Tackling major childhood poverty would be a major step forward. By itself, that would reduce not just psychosis, but all mental health problems in adulthood, Prof Read said.
The study meant current mental health services were completely wrong. Now, a large majority of those diagnosed with psychosis would be put on medication immediately, and a tiny percentage would be offered any sort of psychological therapy.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/6812942/Schizophrenia-linked-to-childhood-trauma
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When you combine the Sky City deal with the Crafar farm sale and combine it with the Warner Bros deal you end up with such a huge pile of steaming corporate influence you would have to wonder who is governing our country and for whom!
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/dodgy-hobbit-deal-revealed.html
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sprout says “When you combine the Sky City deal with the Crafar farm sale and combine it with the Warner Bros deal you end up with such a huge pile of steaming corporate influence you would have to wonder who is governing our country and for whom!”
sprout would have taxpayers/ratepayers fork out $300-$400 million more for a convention centre. A big loss for taxpayers.
sprout would have Crafar Farms creditors lose an additional $50 million so Michael Fay gan get his hands on it, then flog it off, probably to overseas interests anyway.
sprout would have NZ lose the massive benefit of the Hobbit to the UK, as Warner forked out quarter of a billion dollars to buy the Harry Potter studios, the VERY WEEK the govt clinched the deal for NZ.
Under your ideaology NZ would
- lose the convention centre,
- lose tens of millions on the crafar farms
- lose the Hobbit.
At least you’d be able to convince yourself that the loses, and resulting cuts to eductation, health, benefits, environment etc, were for your “ethical” reasons.
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John Banks – Asshole of the Week
It’s likely John Banks intentionally tried to hide the $15,000 donation from SkyCity, but where he’s really going to come unstuck is that if the donation was legitimately anonymous, the candidate must give the donation (less $1500) to the Electoral Commission within 20 working days. John Banks failed to do this and is therefore at least guilty of an illegal practice…
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photonz1
The convention centre is only financially viable if the global recession ends. Making a law change that allows more gambling machines, which equates to more social disintegration, is not the answer. The social costs outweigh the benefits.
There were more than two offers on the table photonz1. You can either support foreign ownership that makes Kiwi’s tenants in our own country or you can support New Zealand being for New Zealander’s. Obviously you don’t know what patriotism is.
The Hobbit would still have been made in New Zealand if National had not changed the law to accommodate Warner Brothers further profiteering from our already low waged economy. They used the dispute to kick workers in the guts, which is generally why our productivity is low.
Your free-market idealism is and has always been a failure photonz1.
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jackal says “only financially viable if the global recession ends.”
So you think it will never end?
jackal says “There were more than two offers on the table photonz1.”
Yes – The others were even more opportunistic than Michal Fays one – and his one meant Crafars creditors would lose an additional $50 million. The others were worse.
jackal says “The Hobbit would still have been made in New Zealand if National had not changed the law to accommodate ”
That’s naive in the extreme.
Warners had just finalised spending quarter of a BILLION dollars on a studio set up to make movies in the same genre, the VERY SAME WEEK.
All of a sudden they had another very good, and very viable, place to make the Hobbit – and they owned it all. But not only one – other countries were offering TWICE the financial incentives we were if the Hobbit was shifted.
The big surprise is that they didn’t shift.
Jackal says “They used the dispute to kick workers in the guts, ”
Utter nonsense.
In Wellington thousands of workers marched IN SUPPORT of Warners, and AGAINST the union.
It was a case of unbounded stupidity by the union, that just about cost thousands of people their livelihoods.
And as if a giant own-goal wasn’t bad enough, Helen Kelly dismissed the march by thousands of workers as not important, by lieing that it was merely something organised by Peter Jackson (who had nothing to do with it).
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John Keys dodgy deal with sky was underhand and looks like rich business men dong each other favors.
The Crafer farm deal is bad for New Zealand and again the deal making behind the scenes looks dodgy. The whole things another national party mess.
The Warner brothers ‘corporate welfare’ deal was about union bashing and warner brothers getting more money ….
Former National party minister John Banks and his ‘secret’ donations sum up the national party. Give them enough money and they will change the law to suit you……… and stuff whats good for New Zealand.
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The fishy smell is becoming more pungent by the day.
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/scent-of-fish.html
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nznative says “and stuff whats good for New Zealand.”
Yeah – losing the Hobbit, losing and additional $50 million on Crafar farms, and losing the convention centre would have been a really big benefit to everyone.
What a win.
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The problem with the Nats is that they are so dishonest on every issue and their true intentions.
Who sais we would have lost the hobbit?, thats just fear-mongering to justify the corporate welfare and union bashing that the Nats did.
And selling our farms to the Chinese is plain bloody stupid. Even more stupid than selling our state assets. It would have been far better to sell the farms individually to NEW ZEALANDERS.
And the convention center deal is a con and a sham. John Keys should be had up for fraud on that one …… calling for tenders when you’ve already given the wink and the nod to your rich friend.
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What will crush-less Collins do?
If Judith Collins has any competence as a minister, we should see heads roll.
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@1:57am
“What a whine.”
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The problem with the Nats is that they are so dishonest on every issue and their true intentions.
Ha! HA!!!
Doesn’t it suck?
You guys really need to take a look in the mirror.
*Best hypocrisy eva*
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justify the corporate welfare and union bashing that the Nats did.
The unions bashed themselves on that one, what, with their own members rejecting their leadership.
Oh, and lets not forget their blood stained hands re Pike river.
Incidentally I saw a chap from the EPMU the other day at the petrol station, pumping gas while on the cell phone, I was very tempted to ask him if he was trying to cause another explosion.
I didn’t, but I took several photo’s.
What a jerk.
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Oh, and lets not forget their blood stained hands re Pike river.
That’s a pretty severe allegation.
Are you able to point out anything in the commissions findings to support your statement that the EPMU policy or personnel had anything to do with the Pike disaster?
PS – Worth noting that the use of a cellphone can’t trigger an explosion at a gas station; it’s been effectively debunked, so I’m not sure what you are getting at.
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Gregor W
Worth noting that along with smoking the use of cell phones is banned on service station forecourts.
You will see quite a few activites that are banned (such as having the engine running while filling up).
Yes, it has been proven that cell phone use is pretty well certain NOT to trigger an explosion (static electricity from clothing is the biggest), the fact that its use is banned is reason enough not to flout the rules.
Unless the EMPU and its members are exempt from these and any other rules (particular in returning finacial records as all incorporated societies are supposed to!)
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The facts and the Parliamentary Library support Russel’s claim that the tax cuts have caused the economic crisis.
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/tax-cuts-caused-current-crisis.html
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@ Gerrit
What I was getting at is Shunda’s specious causality.
He was making 2 unconnected propositions in an attempt to develop a strawman.
Entirely similar in fact to your strawman connecting a tax situation (a legal issue) to using a phone at a gas station (a courtesy).
So unless you are suggesting that an individual who breaks any rule while nominally representing an organisation (for example, you jaywalking while wearing a jacket that names your employer) is somehow representative of their employer or employer’s policies, then my statement still stands.
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Are you able to point out anything in the commissions findings to support your statement that the EPMU policy or personnel had anything to do with the Pike disaster?
Oh spare me the bullshit.
The EPMU had ten f@cking years to lobby a Labour government about restoring the mines inspectorate and didn’t so much as make a friggin phone call.
The Pike river disaster is an epic fail for workers rights in this country, it is the greatest failure of workers rights in the modern era in this country, yet it is as cold as cold can be, no one gives a shit.
The collective guilt and will to not learn the true lessons of this horrific work place accident is defining, and the EPMU is one of the worst offenders of the lot, where were they when they were needed most?.
The unions are not what they used to be, and their values are as corrupt as all hell.
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Gregor W
A forecourt is private property where the rules to enter a clearly stated, it is NOT a courtesy, as in being able to make a choise to use or not to use a cell phone.
The rules are simple, no cell phone use.
You cannot use a cellphone if a provision to enter a property you are asked not to do so.
Much like smoking inside.
No, what I was refering to is rule breaking, that is not a strawman argument.
We ALL have to file financial returns. The state seems hellbent not to investigate SOME incorporated societies (not for tax purposes – though UNITE still owes a swag).
You saying we can ignore some rules?
Can I suggest I dont bother to file a tax return, that would help me as my cheque for a not inconsiderable final tax payment for the year is in the mail to the IRD.
Maybe I should cancel the cheque?
After all why follow rules?
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@ Gerrit
I’m not saying anyone can ignore some rules.
I’m saying the positions are unconnected.
No amount of dubious reasoning can make them connected.
If a member of the EPMU suggested in their capacity as a representative of their employer, that the EMPU is exempt from these rules (either filing correct tax details or using phones in gas stations) then their would be something here.
But as it stands, it’s a series non of connected events with a weak attempt to connect them.
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Absolutely spot on Gerrit.
But this is lost on certain people here, they think people that obey rules are blinded by their neo conservative values and hopelessly blinded to “the better way”.
Incidentally, I just had a nasty phone call from ACC, turns out I am paying more than the equivalent of a third of my income tax to them (not including other ‘hidden’ levies), oh calloo callay happy day.
Their attitude to people like me that have NEVER made an ACC claim is ‘pay it or else’, but you can be damned sure if I ever need it……
Oh bless our socialist masters.
I’m supposed to feel good about this, right?
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Oh spare me the bullshit.
@ shunda
So you have nothing to back up your statement then other than your opinion, unless of course you are fully cognisant of the inner workings of the EPMU and their relationship to the government and the mining industry?
Or, have you been party to some other enquiry that the rest of us know nothing about?
Thought not.
Maybe take your own advice and spare us your bullshit.
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Gregor my dear, dear little socialist, your trust in “officialdom” is very cute indeed.
But when events happen in ones own ‘neck of the woods’ it is not hard to determine the truth in said events.
I notice you have made no comment on the EPMU’s decade of ‘indifference’ I referenced earlier, you really have nothing to say about that?
No, you don’t, do you.
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Since when is the EPMU ‘officialdom’?
Last time I checked, they are a union.
Or are you suggesting that the Royal Commission is somehow a fraud?
That we have all been duped?
That there is some massive shadowy conspiracy that only you are aware of?
If so, then prove it.
Or do we just believe your ‘truth’?
I made no comment because your allegation is baseless; why respond to something that has no basis in fact?
Would you respond if I merely stated my opinion that the world is run by lizards? With anything other than ridicule, I would hope not.
So again I will ask; prove your allegations of EPMU involvement in Pike, prove your allegations of a ‘decade of indifference’, prove your supposition that the Commission is somehow compromised in its findings.
Produce emails, meeting minutes, policy statements…anything to that effect will do.
As a side note, snide character smears don’t work either.
They are the recourse of people who can’t form an arguement.
They belittle the promoter rather than the target. It might pay you to remember that.
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Nothing to see here says the union rep, 10 years and not a mention of reinstating the mines inspectorate, but nothing to see here folks.
Lets leave the door open to capitalist exploitation for a decade, do nothing for a decade, sit on our collective hands for a decade, and then cry foul when a Labour govt approved coal mine explodes in one of our worst workers rights abuses ever.
Good on you Gregor, you’re a real champ.
You are the one that needs evidence chum, my evidence is the guys (I personally know) still lying in that f@cking coal mine.
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Nothing to see here says the union rep, 10 years and not a mention of reinstating the mines inspectorate, but nothing to see here folks.
Who said this?
All I’m asking for is some document, press article or minuted comment that the EPMU hasn’t done nothing – not lobbied, question or petitioned – to restore the inspectorate.
Frankly, I’m not in a position to know. I don’t profess to know.
You do and thus, you have the burden of proof.
Give me that and I’ll support what you 100%.
Keep sidestepping with opinion and cheap shots, and I’ll continue to call you on it.
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All I’m asking for is some document, press article or minuted comment that the EPMU hasn’t done nothing – not lobbied, question or petitioned – to restore the inspectorate.
Oh! ok! so now you think that Labour may have denied them?
Blarr-dee-hell.
This is getting beyond an effing joke.
Loyal to the bitter end, I will never cease to be shocked at the blinding ability of certain ideology.
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You make an unqualified statement which is essentially a subjective proposition, not fact based, that somehow magically holds water because it has not been disproven?
Seriously, that’s the essence of your arguement?!
There’s a term for that; conjecture.
Once again to address your weak, ham-fisted diversions; I have no ‘loyalty’ to defend, no ideology to buttress to the ‘bitter end’.
I’m merely calling bullshit on you and your fact free insinuations and posturing.
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Gregor are you serious? did or did not the Labour party reintroduce the mines inspectorate?
Did the unions succeed in lobbying the Labour party to reintroduce the mines inspectorate that they were very vocal about when it was axed?
NO THEY BLOODY WELL DIDN’T, they didn’t even bother to try.
Are you capable of seeing the big picture? (even though it is as plain as the nose on your face, you do have a nose don’t you?)
29 guys went to work and died, they are still there, if there was a mines inspectorate there is no way this would have happened.
The unions, the Labour party, the 1990′s National party and the department of labour are all complicit in this.
This was a progressive break down in values and all these groups have blood on their hands.
If you don’t like my tough talk then tough friggin luck, I am appalled by this injustice and the fact that my country thinks that it is ok for 29 men to lie dead on their work place floor since 2010!!
Have you seen the pain in the eyes of a Pike river widow? or in her voice? have you heard first hand of the anger, the pain and the despair of someone who’s partner went to work one day and never came home, lives ruined, a 16 year old boy killed on his first day of work. This reads like something out of the 19th f@ckin century, and all you can say is where is the proof the unions didn’t do their job?
People like you are part of the damned problem, and this will happen again if the lessons aren’t learned.
You left wing pricks are big on preaching and very short on action where it counts, you disgust me deeply, your values are corrupt and you are parasitic on once great ideals.
As far as I am concerned, the left in this country are as bad as any government that sells asset’s and then some, you are all collectively no damned different, and potentially a great deal worse.
I am angry about this, and I make no apology for that fact.
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Welcome to the left wing Gregor.
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Yeah, just one big hypocritical happy family, the chardonnay will run out soon enough…………
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Shundu, i think you need to turn your autopilot off.
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Shun who?
Who are you talking to? seems your autopilot needs a bit of calibrating.
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Something for Frog.
http://www.sangrea.net/free-cartoons/polit_boil-it-slowly.jpg
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Some ideas proposed for Wellington’s tranpsort future here.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6831260/Subway-proposed-for-central-Wellington?comment_msg=posted#post_comment
My preference is the cheapest option.
I would run buses along the waterfront to Courtenay Place – these going on to either the hospital or the airport.
I would also have free bikes and helmut available (refund when handed back in) from the railway station to Courtenay Place run (on a good day, whatever route) – either way or round trip. People could go to a cafe then shop walking back etc or go right to the hospital by bike etc.
We don’t have the volume for anything larger than buses in any case – so these options are not economic. It’s more a case of planning a more walking and bike and bus friendly city system.
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I take your point, if others don’t, that there were more failures than simply the removal of that protecting agency.
It is, without a doubt, something that a LOT of people failed on.
There is a question of course, if WE could have done anything, but I do find that most people are a lot wiser after the blood is spilled, than they ever were beforehand. Safety rules are written in blood.
… and when money is involved, that is how the world works.
It should not however, have been necessary for ANYONE to tell Labour to repair the damage left it by National.
At this point we should know that we have to examine every law passed by that wholly pwned subsidiary of the one-percenters, to decide whether to change them back… and most will need to be reversed. The only downside to that requirement is that labour is not much less responsive to the money.
Calm down. Can’t change history.
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Thanks for you comments BJ.
I guess I find it amazing that more people can’t see the wider failure regarding Pike River, perhaps I shouldn’t be amazed, but either way I find it thoroughly depressing.
The guys that died weren’t all ‘red neck’ miners, I know that for a fact, but I sense that this is part of the reason that the left don’t seem to ‘care’ like they once would have.
The Pike river disaster is something that would have received far more interest from workers rights activists once upon a time, I really believe that NZers would have at least demanded the bodies are returned to their loved ones at any cost.
We don’t leave our dead behind in circumstances like this, this is not the NZ way.
There is a political incentive to not learn some of the lessons of this disaster from both sides of the spectrum, I think this needs to be exposed for what it is.
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@SPC: “I would also have free bikes and helmut available (refund when handed back in)”
There’s a public bike share system in Melbourne, but they don’t have free refundable helmets and I think that was because of some issue around safety requirements whereby it’s too hard to be certain it hasn’t been in an accident upon being returned. Instead, cheapish helmets are available for ~$5 from most of the 7-eleven shops around town. I don’t know exactly how popular they are for certain, but I almost never see anyone riding them around when here on a day-to-day basis despite a fairly good road infrastructure to support cyclists.
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Shunda, I think it’s totally fair to slam the Labour Party, given they were in government and were avid supporters of the Pike River project, but you are going to have to come up with some evidence that the EPMU didn’t work on safety concerns rather than just repeating your apparently baseless assertion like a stuck record.
I think the EPMU are a worthless organisation BTW.
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And for what its worth at this stage, the EPMU apparently did lobby for check inspectors, and was turned down, argued for higher standards in the industry body, and ordered workers of the job at one stage due to safety concerns. That’s according to a union worker so you can proclaim disbelief if you choose, but you might have to provide some actual evidence to refute my claims.
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Sam, do you believe that if the EPMU wanted check inspectors (that National Axed and they weren’t happy about at the time) that Labour would have denied the request??
It was nearly 10 years Sam, and nothing changed, nothing at all.
The Pike river disaster was entirely predictable, it was caused by a systemic loss of values across the board.
The right are guilty for deregulation in the 90′s and the left are guilty for doing nothing for a decade.
The Pike River disaster is an astonishing event, because it was <completely avoidable.
If we don’t learn the lessons, next time it might be an Air NZ Boeing 777.
That those 29 guys are still down that mine is a national disgrace.
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“do you believe that if the EPMU wanted check inspectors (that National Axed and they weren’t happy about at the time) that Labour would have denied the request?”
Doesn’t seem unlikely, Labour didn’t do a lot of things unions pushed for.
“the left are guilty for doing nothing for a decade.”
If you think Labour is on the left you are about 25 years behind the times.
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we are doing nothing for the laborer community.. we are celebrating 1st may.. would you like to tell what is benefit to them.. we celebrate holiday on that day but they work. this day does not belongs to us . it belongs to them. alas we are doing nothing..and the GOVT
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Stats highlight growing bigotry
Gerry Brownlee claimed in the House of Representatives today that employment has grown by 9000… but Statistics NZ’s latest Household Labour Force Survey report (PDF) shows that employment grew because of an increase in part-time employment, while full-time employment actually decreased by 3,000 over the latest quarter. This means more dependance on supplemental welfare support.
The other main statistical change is that unemployment for woman has grown dramatically as well as for pacific people. National’s policies are clearly adversely and disproportionately affecting people who are not white and male. This indicates a chauvinistic, racist and myopic policy direction, which is ultimately detrimental for New Zealand.
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Sorry! That’s meant to be Steven Joyce, not Gerry Brownlee who made those claims. I always get those two confused.
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