Julie Anne Genter
Day 8 – Made it!

For those of you who have followed my journey, I figured I’d better let you know that I made it safe, sound, and not even too fatigued at the Keep the Coal in the Hole summer festival south of Mataura.

A bit anti-climactic, isn’t it?

I woke early this morning, and headed for the hilly route west along the Clinton-Mataura highway. It was a great 50km ride on reasonably still and chilly morning. I got to the festival just in time for morning tea.

I’ll post an epilogue with some reflections on the journey and the festival after it has ended. So far it’s been a day of very productive and interesting conversations, delicious nourishing (and unquestionably ethical food), and some great live music. I’m very keen to see what the community open day tomorrow will yield.

View the first post in this series

73 thoughts on “Day 8 – Made it!

  1. Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12 (-11)

  2. Well done, I really like the fact that you were flexible enough to take an easier option for some of the Dunedin hills
    Hope your food source was not to close to Kaitangita when you ate the “unquestionably ethical food”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  3. ..do you mean ‘free-range/organic’..dead animals..?

    If the normal dead animals that I eat taste so good, then I wonder what the free-range/organic kind taste like?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 (+1)

  4. Congrats Julie Ann. Tis a long ride – well done!

    Phil – What are you even doing here (apart from trying to start arguments off topic)? I know that this site is one of the few remaining that will tolerate you – apart from Megaupload perhaps………oh wait… but given this don’t you think that you should try to be a wee bit more polite?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 (+1)

  5. xcheq:..what are any of us doing anywhere..?

    ..and when a green mp has three days in a row written celebrating the species of animal/creature she has masticated/eaten the night before…

    ..i see questioning that as being totally on-topic…

    ..and just because farrar closed me down in the lead up to the election..

    ..i don’t see that as a web-wide ban..

    ..in the last 24 hrs i have taken the piss at whaleoil..

    ..and commented @brian edwards’ blog..

    ..on the subjects of addiction/dairy..and luncheon sausage…

    ..so..?

    ..and as for being ‘polite’..?

    ..the animals/fish asked me to shout even louder..eh..?

    ..being ‘polite’ hasn’t worked that well up until now..

    ..(15 yrs campaigning for slightly larger cages..

    ..is the definition of failed-incrementalism..eh..?..)

    ..and my questions have been considered/polite in tone/timbre..

    ..so..?

    ..back to the kiwiblog-swamp for you..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 8 (-5)

  6. and i see you have joined the megaupload-lynch-mob…?

    ..you are obviously a deep-thinker..

    ..did yr school reports read:..’is easily led’..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 10 (-8)

  7. also great..ms genter..

    that you are continuing that hierachial-position of being a green mp means you never have to even acknowledge any criticism..

    ..let alone answer any specific questions/concerns..

    ..of/from us peasants…

    ..eh..?

    ..unless you are being fawned over..

    ..it is all one-way traffic..

    ..eh..?

    ..and that for three days in a row you celebrate/attempt to normalise what is really barbaric/totally ungreen behaviour..eh..?

    ..an addiction in fact..

    ..and is disturbing in showing how unthinking you are/what a tin-ear you have on this subject..

    ..are all the new green mp’s cut from that same cloth..?

    ..(he asks with a sense of growing dread….)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 (-6)

  8. I met Julie Anne at the lignite festival, Phil and spent the good part of an evening talking with her about cycling, the universe and everything.
    You’re haranguing a friend :-)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 (+1)

  9. You can only expect accountability/response from an electorate MP, a Minister, or those of the party you are a member of phil. Ask Hone what he ate in the past week … good luck with that.

    For those interested, the MP has declared that one one day she had pancakes, on another fresh fish and chips and on another fish, rice, veggies and salad.

    What one can derive from that would be defined as delicious and nourishing and unquestioningly ethical one can only leave for phil’s imagination (or paranoia) about what the rest of us get up to when we feed. Our only clue is that she made this comment about what she ate after she arrived at the keep the coal in the ground gathering – thus it was most likely food that came out of the earth. Too subtle for some …

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 (0)

  10. “..Too subtle for some …..”

    what exactly is ‘subtle’ about killing/dismembering/cooking/eating formerly sentient-beings…?

    ..(and fly..)

    “..and spent the good part of an evening talking with her about cycling, the universe and everything…”

    did you talk about the moral complexities/questions of/around eating animals..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11 (-9)

  11. is it not significant that no green mp has ever stepped up to defend their eating of animals..

    ..i’ve been trying for an answer for some five years now..

    ..i’ll persevere..

    ..might get lucky one day…

    ..someone might step up to defend the indefensible..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11 (-9)

  12. Clearly people who eat fish and food that comes out of the earth can be more subtle than you phil …

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 (+1)

  13. could you define ‘subtle’ for us…?

    you seem to be somewhat incoherent…

    ..are you fond of alcohol..?

    ..it is quite late..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11 (-9)

  14. Shall I compare phil to a high minded cloud on a summers day
    yet he so often resorts to base personal denigration

    Shall I compare leaving coal in the ground
    to taking food out of the ground to eat instead

    for that would be much more delicious a prospect
    and more nourishing for the earth

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 (0)

  15. Well done Julie Anne, your cycle trip was a real achievement. Pity about the wind at times, but you made it!

    At what point does the moderator edit out comments like those from phil u? He is aggresive and personal and seems to expect people to follow his dis-jointed rambling. Human beings are omnivores, some chose to be vegetarian or vegan, but we evolved to eat plants and some meat (that’s why we have incisors & canine teeth) fact of biology. Eating less meat would make more sense resource-wise and for most people’s carbon footprints. Disecting comments and attacking people verbally on this site is just sad.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 (+4)

  16. Great to see you there too, Julie Anne, and what an excellent turnout of Green MPs: yourself, Kennedy, Eugenie, Gareth and the retired (but still very active) MP, Jeanette. I am impressed that with two prominent issues in the media currently (the POAL/MUNZ and the Coal in the Hole Festival), it is the Green Party that has a presence and an opinion. Where are Labour, National, NZ First or the Maori Party? I will have to get you down to Invercargill to talk to our City Council about inner city planning, your knowledge about car parking would make a valuable contribution to current planning.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  17. The food at the festival was excellent – beautifully prepared and as vegetably, fruity, nutty, beany and pulsey as you could hope for, Phil. Considering the kitchen was a tent and the atmospheric conditions ‘changeable’ the way it can be in Southland, those cooks were champions. I heard not one complaint.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  18. i gather viv..that you are a carnivorous ‘green’..?

    ..(that walking oxymoron..?..)

    ..protecting yr turf/defending yr most-un-green lifestyle/hypocrisies..eh..?

    ..and thanks for the laugh-out-loud at yr ‘fact of biology’…eh..?

    “..He is aggresive and personal..”

    ..you should hear what the animals you eat say about you..eh..?

    ..to them you could hardly be more “aggresive and personal’..eh..?

    “…and seems to expect people to follow his dis-jointed rambling…”

    now that one hurt…!

    (..and almost bordering on “aggresive and personal’…there..by that viv..eh..?..whoar..!)

    ..try reading it as spoken-out-loud speech…eh..?

    ..that might help…

    ..we don’t write as we speak/speak as we write..

    ..in my own little way..

    ..i am trying to bring those two closer together…

    ..eh..?

    ..it’s an uphill battle..

    ..but then much/most worth fighting for is..

    ..eh..?

    ..(that’s how the animals feel anyway…)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11 (-9)

  19. “…Eating less meat would make more sense resource-wise and for most people’s carbon footprints…”

    yes viv..talk/just-flapping-the-gums is cheap/easy..eh..?

    ..so..why don’t you do what you already claim to know..?

    ..less + less = zero…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 10 (-6)

  20. “..beautifully prepared and as vegetably, fruity, nutty, beany and pulsey as you could hope for, Phil..”

    i am salivating..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7 (-6)

  21. “..Disecting comments and attacking people verbally on this site is just sad…”

    y’know what is really ‘sad’ there ..viv..?

    the killing/dismembering of the animals you feel you must eat..

    ..eh..?

    ..how could it not be..?

    ..do you ever think what you have done to them..?

    ..as you eat them..

    ..do you ever even question those barbaric/cruel-practises..?

    ..or are you just unthinking in yr consumption of flesh/fat/blood..?

    ..your ‘green-ess’ has a certain rosy tinge around the edges..eh..?

    ..i think that is from the blood of what you eat..

    ..and if you listen real carefully..

    ..you can hear them screaming in agony..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 12 (-9)

  22. Phil,

    If you are so evangelical on the rights of animals etc, why don’t you petition the people who are in charge of Frogblog to start up a new thread on your topic of Green MP’s hypocrisy.

    Better still, why not set up a blog and post all about it over there. Once you’ve done that, come back, tell us the name of your blog and, if we are interested, we will go over, read it and comment.

    In the meantime, perhaps you could extend a bit of courtesy to the blog owners here, stop hijacking threads that have nothing at all to do with your agenda and stick to the discussion?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 (+4)

  23. Phil, I was planning to ask you if I could respond directly by email with some of my thoughts on food because it is not the direct topic of these posts. I don’t have perfect answers, but I do consider the views of animal rights activists and vegans to be valid and very important considerations. I fully supported requests made by Green Party members for food at conferences to be vegan (or at least vegetarian), and I admire and support your commitment not to consume animal products.

    However, I don’t appreciate the way in which you’ve hijacked the thread of these blog posts. I did relate what I was eating honestly, not to argue that others should eat fish (as I currently do), but because I was telling the story of my day as it happened, and food was part of it.

    I think your approach of attacking people, assuming the worst about them, and calling them hypocrites is a disservice to the cause. It doesn’t inspire people to change what they’re doing to be harangued. Just a suggestion: if you can make your message a bit more positive and encouraging, you may win more people over.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 (+8)

  24. first:..thank you for your response..

    ..you..by your describing day after day how ‘delicious’the creature you ate for dinner tasted…

    ..as a green mp..in a green party forum…

    ..is an attempt at ‘normalising’the barbaric practices of feasting on other creatures…

    ..and i will fight that until there ain’t breath in me..eh..?

    ..and i would prefer you not respond to me by email..

    ..i wd prefer you responded here…

    ..tell us here in this forum why you feel you have the right to end the lives of other creatures..

    ..just so you can eat them…

    ..it’s a simple/straightforward question..

    ..an attempt at an answer would be appreciated..

    “..It doesn’t inspire people to change what they’re doing to be harangued..”

    why don’t you tell that to the ‘haranguers’ of/from history..eh..?

    ..’cos i’ll tell you one thing..

    ..staying silent/doing nothing changes nothing…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7 (-5)

  25. Phil. Turning down Julie Anne’s offer is your right, of course, but you’ll no doubt have noticed that she’s made a reasonable and polite request of you.
    Gentleman (and I include the word’s implications in that) or barbarian, you?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1 (+5)

  26. “Gentleman (and I include the word’s implications in that) or barbarian, you?”

    Nicely said, Robert.

    “..you should hear what the animals you eat say about you..eh..?”

    Viv, don’t hold your breath for a rational response if Phil is currently hearing animal voices.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 (+3)

  27. i want the subject discussed in public..

    ..what is not ‘gentlemanly’…about that…?

    ..btw..fly…do you feel ‘gentlemanly’ about/towards the creatures you kill/dismember/eat..?

    ..so..’impolitenes’(in yr eyes) is ‘barbaric’..?

    ..killing/eating animals that have lived short/brutalised lives in animal concentration camps is not..?

    ..but questioning about it is…?

    …whoar..!

    ..that’s a pretzel of a stand..eh..?

    ..phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8 (-7)

  28. to be ‘polite’..

    ..should i ask..

    “..did you draw a discreet veil over their lives….give their limbs room to move independantly of each other..and then have a delightful repaste of them..?’

    is that ‘polite’ enough..?

    ..actually.the subject matter defies ‘politeness’..eh..?

    …maybe ‘cos of all the blood/suffering..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 (-6)

  29. I’ve got it!!
    Let’s encourage Green MPs to communicate openly with the public, on a blog, and when they do join the discussion, let’s harrange them over meat-eating, no matter what the topic of the thread!!!
    Ya’ with me???
    Eh?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 (+10)

  30. phil, you again presume that when the term delicious food (unquestioningly ethical) is used by others it refers to some creature being eaten, yet when you use the term it means something else. Why presume and then harangue when you can politely ask?

    I’ve given you reason – context of keeping coal in the ground and eating food out of the earth to question your presumption, yet you would rather presume to imagine the worst and so on …

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 (0)

  31. i repeat fly…i reacted after three ‘celebrations’..of eating creatures…

    ..the oohing and aahing over ‘salmon-frittata’ was what tipped me..

    ..and the eating has been a large part of the threads on this bike-ride..

    ..so totally on-topic…

    ..and i note you have answered none of the questions i have asked you..

    ..a difficult/sticky/prickly-subject for green carnivores..isn’t it..?

    ..being confronted with the realities of how un-green/cruel they really are…

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 7 (-6)

  32. sorry spc..maybe it’s me..

    ..but you make absolutely no sense..

    ..wtf are you trying to say..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5 (-4)

  33. Simply that you are your own worst enemy.

    If other vegetarians wanted to be in the face of other people on this issue and to actually achieve some progress they would

    1. politely ask someone what they meant by the term “delicious and nourishing food (unquestiongly ethical)” rather than presume to know when they did not.

    2. suggested to that vegetarian food could be defined that way, and raise issues about the ethics of other food.

    3. noted the context of food at a keep the coal in the ground gathering, and how the earth as a sutainable habitat supplies finite resources and can best feed all humans sustainably via food that came out of the earth rather than grazing stock (fish still being a separate issue howeever).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 (+2)

  34. “realities of how un-green/cruel they really are…”

    So the amount of “Greeness” that one has is directly proportionate to the amount of animal flesh (in all guises) that one consumes.

    Mmmmmm. So while the rest of the world is gripped by peak oil, environmental and social disasters galore and issues that threaten us as a species, we should, instead, be focusing on what MPs eat?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 (+2)

  35. sorry..still no clearer..

    ..my bad..

    ..(i get the ‘worst enemy’ bit…

    ..but yr food analogy sails right by me…

    …is it me..or you..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3 (-3)

  36. Well phil, greenfly’s post at 7.47am this morning sort of nails it.

    The sort of food available on the bike ride route and the sort of food available at the keep the hole in the ground gathering might be a little different. For here are some ethical people gathered …

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  37. “..et’s harrange (sic..) them..”

    ..is ‘harranging’ a form of macrame or origami..?

    ..i always forget which it is..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 (-1)

  38. or rather the “keep the coal in the hole” gathering (though I would have used the term ground – is there a hole there now?).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  39. There’s no question that the food served at the ‘coal camp’ was excellent, from breakfast to evening meal. I was surprised to see a three-legged black and white dog, much like my now-extinguished Sparky, scootling around the farm, the way farm dogs do. I was pleased to see that none of the campers ate him.
    While the issue of meat is an important one, Phil, lignite and the dire consequences of mining it is demanding our immediate attention here in Southland and I’m unhappy that discussions around that, be they descriptions from one of the Green MPs who made the huge effort to get down to Southland (she rode her bicycle, Phil – no mean feat), or comments of a general nature about Solid Energy and their plans are being detracted-from by an insistence that we discuss your ‘pet’ issue. Harsh, but I’m sure others will agree, true.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 (+1)

  40. You say ‘harangue’, I say ‘harrange’ – let’s call the whole thing off…
    I’ve always had a blind-spelling-spot over that word. Guess I’m just not the haranguing sort!
    SPC – I struggle with the ‘hole’, though of course it rhymes. Further to the confusion is the detail that lignite is not coal – it’s … lignite!
    ‘Keep the lignite in the ground’ would do me fine.
    Any suggestions from you would be appreciated. The concept of a ‘lignitemare’ is being developed and a team of street performers trained for the purpose of broadcasting that idea to the good people of Southland and that might add some colour and drama to the otherwise dark picture.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  41. One way for phil to engage on this would have been to first support keeping the lignite in the ground and then raise the issue what the best use of the land was … grazing or growing?

    A question for phil, does he prefer sheep grazing to dairying because there is less pressure on our waterways, or is he uninterested in the debate about farm managment … opposing all grazing stock products, this all stock farming?

    Keep the lignitemare in a dark place (in the ground).

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 (0)

  42. 1)..i have stopped nobody saying anything about anything..

    2)..my lignite-question is why is it at this late date that we are hearing about this..?..that there is this action against this..?

    ..isn’t everyone kinda late to the party…?

    ..why wasn’t there this green energy/activity around this before now..?

    ..i mean..the place opens in a month or something..dosen’t it..?

    ..shouldn’t this have all happened at the planning/application stage..?

    ..not as the diggers are about to arrive..

    ..and..do you realistically have any chance of stopping this..?

    ..or are you just pissing into the wind/venting…?

    3)..spc..i am opposed to all farming of animals..

    ..farmers should grow food..not run concentration camps…

    ..and if you are unable to see how this exploitation of animals has screwed this country over..

    ..and how any/every green should be adamantly opposed to it..

    ..we are obviously seeing very different shades of green..

    ..you reckon it is all just a matter of ‘farm-management’..eh..?

    ..and carry on/steam on ahead with the concentration-camp-economy..?

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 (-2)

  43. Phil – some may only now be hearing about this, but others have been busy broadcasting/fighting the issue for some time. The initial development (briquetting plant) is in itself a small thing and the group active in opposition modest in size just now but both seek to grow significantly. If you seek the information/press releases, news articles, you’ll soon be up to speed. Drop Julie Anne a line. She’s got a handle on it :-)
    Good suggestion SPC.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  44. Some say keep the lignite in the ground and some say keep farm stock off the ground.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 (-1)

  45. Some coal must come out of the ground, some stock must tread the pastures.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 (+1)

  46. ms. genter:..

    i repeat from 1.15 pm..

    “….tell us here in this forum why you feel you have the right to end the lives of other creatures..

    ..just so you can eat them…

    ..it’s a simple/straightforward question..

    ..an attempt at an answer would be appreciated…”

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4 (-3)

  47. XChequer, phil is a purist, this means he gets to play trump with the vegetarian card.

    This leads to an independent minded assertiveness (a little like that from one true church and or religion Christians) in all areas where the Greens dare to compromise to work with others to get results. And overuse of the trump card.

    However lest we think he is the most noble of Greenies, he then votes for Mana and not for its policies on food or the environment …

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 (0)

  48. mana had/has strong anti-poverty policies…

    ..i haven’t been a green party member for six yrs plus…

    ..and i am not a vegetarian…i don’t eat any/wear any animal bye-products..

    ..vegetarians often do…

    “..where the Greens dare to compromise..”

    ‘dare’.?..’dare..?’…whoar..!

    ..and is eating animals an essential-’comprimise’..is it spc..?

    ..and for the record..i have watched in dismay as the greens have achieved sfa…for all those years of energy/etc..

    ..with the criminal neglect of the medical marijuana bill being a particular nadir…

    ..that and yr female co-leader delighting in strutting about clad in dead-animal-hide…

    ..and proudly proclaiming she is no way a green in her personal lifestyle…

    ..y’know..!..it all adds up…eh..?

    ..so ‘dare’ to comprimise..?

    ..the greens have just wasted thru neglect the vast reservoir of political-capital/support they had…

    ..thru serial comprimises with each govt..

    ..their voice silenced..and for peanuts…

    ..i think they have a history of ‘daring’ too much…

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4 (-3)

  49. Sorry phil, I did not realise that the average vegetarian is also trumped – is there any term apart from vegan plus for those who make no exploitation of animals for food, clothing or chemicals or for transport?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 (0)

  50. so basically..what you are saying fly..

    ..is that you still want to continue eating them..

    ..you’d just feel more comfortable if they had slightly larger cages…eh..?

    ..and i gather from yr non-answer to my question that you and ms. genter did not discuss that particular vexed subject..?

    ..when you discussed life/the universe/everything..?

    ..understandable…

    ..it’s the elephant in the room carnivore-greens tend to studiously ignore..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4 (-3)

  51. “..”When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they will either cease being mistaken, or cease being honest!”..(anon..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 (0)

  52. Consider how you feel when you read Phil_U’s sanctimonious posts about what is “correct” and moral behavior.

    Now consider how non-greens feel when greens lecture people about “correct” use of transport, energy, housing, food, and all the rest.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 (0)

  53. my posts are in the cause of ending the suffering of those animals..

    ..and of alerting people to the cancers/slow-death they are sentencing themselves/their children too…

    ..that said..that ‘consider how you feel’could be an interesting exercise for carnivore-greens..

    ..but not in the way you mean..

    ..more as a mirror for them…

    ..as they see their own truculence/denial/aggression/ignoring/self-justifying reflected back at them…

    ..what they are so used to seeing in/from their opponents on those ‘safer’ green topics/arguments..

    ..and what i see in/from them..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 (0)

  54. Suffering compared to what, Phil? An animal in the wild? Their life is very brutal compared to farm animals.

    I agree with you that animals should be treated well. I think they should be killed quickly and humanely. I have no issue with eating meat, any more so than you have an issue with people eating plants. We are omnivores who may choose to only eat plants.

    Would you like someone who found eating plants abhorrent lecturing you about your choices?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 (0)

  55. “I was planning to ask you if I could respond directly by email with some of my thoughts on food”

    Don’t bother – after much complaining from Phil, I stated my case for my diet a while back, and he simply ignored it.

    “Just a suggestion: if you can make your message a bit more positive and encouraging, you may win more people over.”

    I said the same some time ago, Phil responded by saying he had no interest in “winning me over”. I conclude he isn’t really interested in animals, he just likes the feeling of moral superiority and a position from which to attack people.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 (+2)

  56. your choice/yr funeral elise..

    http://whoar.co.nz/?s=meat+dairy+cancer

    it’s not just the matter of the cruelties inflicted upon the animals..

    ..and it is the cancer/health of the consumer reasons that will see consumption of animals fall away..not any animal-rights reasons..

    ..it will be self-interest/fear that will do it..

    ..and really..are you a believer in anti-logic..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 (0)

  57. buchanan..

    i couldn’t care less what specious/convoluted reasons you may construct in an attempt to justify yr cruelties to animals…

    ..it’s all horse-shit..

    ..eh..?

    ..and not worthy of any response…except mockery..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 (0)

  58. there has been a program on monday nites on prime that i have found both gross and affirming…

    ..it is an english show where a couple go back to another era..and eat the diet of that time for a week…

    ..and thus providing a window into those times…

    ..what has been gross is what people used to actually eat…

    ..and the combinations of…

    ..what has been affirming is how different those eras are from each other..

    ..and from now…

    ..which has confirmed that massive mass changes in diet are/have been a constant…

    ..and will happen again…

    ..what is now will not be the future…

    ..so maybe best to hold off on any conclusions that now is our culinary/diet-destination..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 (+1)

  59. your choice/yr funeral elise..

    Cancer can strike anyone. The major influencing factor is genetic luck. Vegetarianism is no insurance. See Linda McCartney. Vegetarianism can also result in illness due to poor dietary planning.

    Meat can contribute to bowel cancer in some individuals. Alcohol can contribute to heart problems and liver disease in some people. But I’ll continue to do both. The risk is manageable and worthwhile, in my view.

    We’re not going to live forever, Phil. I’d rather a sudden heart attack than a lingering “healthy” death from dementia, which will become more and more common for people who don’t die of cancer or heart attacks.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

  60. and in the positive-spirit of that future animal-abuse-free mass-diet..

    ..here is a tool to help you get there..

    ..it’s the recipie for my cheap-as-chips vegan gourmet-burger…

    ..(another benefit is that this sucker is 20 mins from go to whoa..

    ..whoar..!..eh..?)

    ingredients/cost…for two burgers..

    4 slices of a high-quality bread..(some bakers’-delight do a $6.50 deal on two loafs..i recommend lekkerbrot…hassle those that don’t..to..)

    vegemite/marmite..

    half an avocado..

    one tomato..

    ..some sprouts..

    ..beetroot…

    ..hummus..

    ..black pepper..

    ..lemon..

    for the main filling in the bun..you can go for those fake-meat burgers/sausages in supermarkets..(i call them meat-methadone..)

    ..you can go over the top and make yr own vegan patties..

    ..or you can go the really cheap way..

    ..supermarkets sell packets of frozen vegan somosas..(50 @ approx ten cents each…)

    ..if using somosas..you’ll need eight…

    ok..!..how to..:

    turn on oven to 220 deg fah..at same time place eight somosas in oven…

    ..put timer on for ten minutes…

    ..then go and sit down for ten minutes…

    ..(i often reach for an appetite-stimulant at that time..ahem..!..)

    ..when the buzzer goes off..get up and put two slices of toast in toaster..

    ..assemble other ingredients..

    ..toaster pops..insert other two..

    ..smear veg/marmite on those two slices…

    ..then half the half avo on each slice…

    ..squezze lemon juice onto avo…then grind black pepper onto it..

    ..other slices will then pop from toaster..

    ..on them smear a healthy dose of hummus..

    ..then slice tomato into four pieces..

    ..two for each slice…

    ..and grind some black pepper onto them…

    ..then put sprouts/carrot/why on the tomato..

    ..and then beetroot on top of the sprouts..

    ..by now (approx ten minutes…)..the somosas will be ready..

    ..put four on each slice smothered in ave..(nestle them down in there..)

    ..and season with tomato-sauce..

    ..flip the beetroot-slice bread onto the soms/avo slices..

    ..and then press down gently…and slice in half..

    ..and you are set to go…

    ..the appetite-stimulant should have kicked in..

    ..and whoar..!

    ..i am addicted to them..

    ..and have them/variations on them at least two-three times a week…

    ..it’s twenty minutes from go to whoa..(ten of which are spent in repose…)

    ..tastes a million dollars…

    …no animals were hurt..

    ..and as you can see…it cost s.f.a…

    ..true budget vegan-gourmet…

    ..enjoy..!

    ..come join me in my current-addiction..

    ..and stop hurting animals..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 (+3)

  61. elsie..we have world-beating rates of some of those meat/dairy sourced cancers..

    ..and world-beating rates of consumption of that meat/dairy…

    ..whaddayareckon..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2 (-2)

  62. I’m guessing you won’t give up the “appetite stimulant” because of the known health risks to both mind and lungs, Phil?

    Not that I have anything against the “appetite stimulant”. No doubt you’ll ignore the medical evidence concerning the slightly elevated mental health risks, and continue to do it because you enjoy it.

    Understand that, and you’ll understand why the slightly elevated risk of bowel cancer doesn’t dissuade meat eaters.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 (+2)

  63. Phil, too much meat and dairy is not good for you. Just like too many drugs aren’t good for you, either.

    Everything in balance and moderation.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 (+2)

  64. I’d don’t think of food or drink as poison, Phil ;)

    Today. I’ll be drinking a Rosé. I usually favour red wine. It might kill me. Might.

    That wouldn’t stop me drinking it. It tastes so very good.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 (+1)

  65. ‘cos if you do..you officially have an alcohol-problem..

    ..i can’t/don’t drink..’cos i quickly get to expect it every night..

    ..and as far as yr longterm health prospects are concerned..

    ..i hafta tell ya that being a pot-smoking vegan is better for you..

    …much better than being a flesh/dairy/alcohol-every-day user..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 (-1)

  66. “..…whats with the..

    ..elipses..

    ..”

    i started with full-stops..

    ..but soon moved to the hard-stuff…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>