by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Wed, September 7th, 2011
Tags: general debate
General debate, September 7, 2011
Published: September 7, 2011
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i have some sympathy with the concerns expressed by mutu..
as one example:..it has long disturbed me that we have become a white-flight from south africa bolt-hole…
(those coming here because they couldn’t handle the blacks ‘taking over’..?..)
..and the effects this will have on our delicate racial/cultural-mix…
..as they bring their ‘blacks are inferior’-baggage with them..
..how this problem can be ‘fixed’ tho’…i have no idea..
..screening of immigrants wouldn’t work…they would just learn to lie..
..and we have a long history of this importing of toxins..
…the virulently-racist poms who flocked here..
..’to escape what england is becoming’..i.e..multicultural…
..then there were the reactionary dutch..who also bolt-holed here ‘cos of how ‘liberal’ the netherlands were becoming..
..the south africans are just the latest wave…
..and those ingrained prejudices against..say..hiring maori..
..must only increase the pressures on an already marginalised/stigmatised maori..
but as i say..i don’t know how you could solve/fix that undoubted problem..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Probably too late for a majority in parliament
http://www.becominghuman.org/
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actually looking at our pakeha-make-up/sources..
..it should come as no surprise at how uncaring the white majority/political leaders are to long-documented/easily-solvable ‘problems’facing maori..
(i touched on this uncaring in a poem(?)i banged out upon the exit of clark/the last labour govt..
http://whoar.co.nz/2009/commentwhoarthe-kids-up-north-have-still-got-rotten-teethbut-heyhelens-at-the-uneh/
(apologies/regards/obeisances paid to the gil scott-heron magnum-opus..’whitey’s on the moon’..the concept of which i have unabashedly ‘stolen’/borrowed/paid homage to..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I don’t think we can just assume that all South African immigrants are coming because “they couldn’t handle the blacks ‘taking over’”. Some might be coming just because the country is a mess.
For the sake of future harmony, it would be good if immigrants were questioned over their commitment to decolonising New Zealand but (a) that ain’t going to happen, and (b) it would probably just privilege educated liberals who know to say the right thing, regardless of their real attitudes.
But perhaps there is a possibility of giving Maori considerably more say in setting immigration policy?
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i never used the word ‘all’…for any of the immigrants i cited..
..if asked to further define…’many’ would pretty much cover it..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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shame we don’t have a racism-scanner…
..that could be run over people as they applied/arrived…
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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‘beep.!’..and ya don’t get in..
that’d sort it…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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mind you..it wd really chop into our australian tourist numbers..
..that scanner…
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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mind you..thinking a bit further on this..
..something that could/would help…
..would be that any application-screening ..
..should/must include a ‘search’ for the online profile of the applicant..
..and if he/she were a raging-racist…
..you’d think there’d be forensic-traces/slicks…eh..?
..and clear evidence of that a reason to decline the application..
..i’m with mutu..
..i don’t want fucken racists polluting our country..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Thinking a bit further on immigration.. population…
Do any Greens have any thoughts about population?
Do we need to increase the NZ population? Oh, we do.. with skilled migrants.. Then we don’t need to upskill any here already.
Do I have last settlers sydrome, probably, although I’m made in NZ, from local and imported ingredients.
Sam’s suggestion about giving Maori more say sounds good. But do you mean the Maori party or Mana, or an Iwi(s)?
If we really do want to increase the NZ population can we get some Kenyan runners so then we can win some track medals at the Olympics.
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Well, I don’t mean the political parties. But it should be up to Maori to choose their representatives – I don’t think Maori have ever really been presented with a choice of how they want to be represented – iwi, hapu, some new form of elected body, or whatever.
Generally the composition of the ‘Maori voice’ has been decided by the government for its own convenience.
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Years ago, when you applied for a marine radio operators licence, you had to sign a statement that you would maintain “secrecy of correspondence”.
“Secrecy of correspondence” was the legal principle that, “Under no circumstances would you divulge the contents of any radio message to a third party”.
In other words privacy of communication was sacrosanct. All radio operators hearing a message, including Government radio operators , were only allowed to divulge the existence or the contents of a radio message to “the proper recipient”.
I am sure this was often honoured in the breach by intelligence agencies. But the principle that an individuals right to privacy overrode any other interests ,for any reason, was there.
Similarly it has been a legal principle, in most “democratic” States, that phone calls can only be intercepted on reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
Usually by a judicial or court order. Police are not allowed to listen to private phone calls at random.
WHY THEN! Are we allowing the State, and even worse, private ISP companies and copyright holders to breach a our privacy IN CASE WE ARE BREAKING THE LAW.
WE DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO BREACH OUR “PRIVACY OF COMMUNICATION”, ON THE TELEPHONE, LIKE THIS.
Sure they have all sort of laudable reasons. Protecting copyright holders, attempting to limit paedophilia and catching organised criminals. But anyone, who wants to intercept other forms of communication to prevent these crimes, has to see a judge.
Of course reasonable people support intercepting paedophiles and terrorists on the internet. Who wouldn’t.
However, those people can easily find ways and means to bypass internet scrutiny.
While the rest of us have our rights to privacy and free and open communication with our friends trampled on.
Once a Government starts internet scrutiny do you think they will stop with intercepting illegal traffic. How long before they intercept Wikileaks, The New Zealand Socialist Party. The Labour party! Anything which embarrasses them!
How long before the SIS and police start making lists.
Of people who are not comfortable with the present Government.
They have done it before.
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I’m not sure what exactly Kerry is railing against, but I would caution that there is a world of difference in law between logging the sender and recipient of messages (in whatever form), and examining the content of those messages.
I suspect that its against the recently enacted S122 legislation, which does not empower “ISP companies and copyright holders to breach a our privacy”. However, if some user of the internet declares he is up to no good (which is what you do when you use P2P software, its how it works) then theres no breech occuring.
New Zealand has a (currently) voluntary opt-in (by ISP) censorship system (read all about it here on the DIA website) which could be expanded at a moments notice in coverage terms, and in that ISPs could be required to use it. The UK has a similar system, and there is a ruck going on currently about the expansion of the scope of its use.
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DB. I am sure you know why I am “railing” on about it.
The “right to secrecy of correspondence” included the right to keep secret the fact that the correspondence even existed. For good privacy reasons.
ISP censorship for Government is only a short step from monitoring and interception.
And the only way ISP’s can find out what you are downloading is by scrutinising your internet use. Breaching privacy on behalf of US corporates. P to P sharing is not only used for piracy.
Since the Skynet law was passed the real pirates will be using one of the means available to bypass interception, anyway.
There are already problems in Australia. Not only were the Government censoring legitimate sites, but also the public was not supposed to know which sites were censored.
In the UK copyright holders are carrying out “fishing expeditions”. I am sure you have heard about the number of innocent people who were threatened with legal action and other questionable practices.
The amount of surveillance, and censorship, our Government can carry out, is way beyond, what should be, the legal bounds of privacy.
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You’re railing against two different things.
Thing one: S122
To state “the only way ISP’s can find out what you are downloading is by scrutinising your internet use.” is to mis-state both the technologies involved, and the law.
ISPs dont “find out” (not their function under S122), and there is certainly no “interception” of any type by ISPs or by Rights Holders(*); Rights Holders or their representatives find out what you are up to not by monitoring your communications directly (ie they are not involved in your communication paths) but by picking up the evidence that P2P users scatter around the internet.
Any watcher of CSI will parrot Grissom’s mantra: any visitor to a crime scene picks something up, and leaves something behind. All the Rights Holders are doing is picking up the evidence that P2P users leave behind.
Footnote: there is an exception: if an user connects to a server operated by a Rights Holder (and such things do exist) then that is one end of a communication path, and thus under these unusual circumstances the Rights Holder has access to the traffic to and from that user to that IP address, but nothing other than that.
Thing 2: Australian internet border; I’ve already noted we have a voluntary one of these too, and that the UK version is giving problems with scope creep.
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DB. Yes on the face of it they are two different things. But underneath they are they same. Potential inhibitions on an individuals right to privacy, freedom of speech and access to information.
It is creepy, how Government and corporate rights to violate our privacy are being extended year by year.
It is not just the internet. In many places now you cannot even scratch your bum on a street corner without someone watching on CCTV.
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Totally agree Toad. An apology and formal inquiry needs to happen.
Stop State Persecutions
A day after the charges against Tiki Tane were amicably resolved, many of those charged after the Urewera raids of 15 October 2007, also found themselves free from further Police persecution… with a few notable exceptions; Tama Iti is still facing firearms charges despite them being weak and the continued backtracking making the crowns case look like a sick joke! What is clear after millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent is that the initial raids were completely unjustified and the Police have simply wasted time playing repress the natives instead of catching real criminals…
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http://whoar.co.nz/2011/comment-whoar-bloody-hell-how-about-that-mana-party-policy-eh/
(ed:..i have just read through the mana party draft-policies..
(it isn’t an onerous-task..we are talking bullet-points..not extensive/rambling-tracts..)
and i would recommend anyone with the slightest interest in politics…
..to go and read them..
..i am seriously impressed…
..they are presenting a logical/humane/costed/coherent/ better way for us all to live our lives…
..and the implementation of which will make new zealand a much better place for all..
..and will do away with the evils of poverty that currently blight us…
(“The greatest of evils and the worst of crimes is poverty” — George Bernard Shaw..)
..it is a visionary set of policies…
..and if mana succeed in making all aware of what they offer..
..this…(and taking into account the statement from hone harawira…
..that..’if all the poor people vote for us…
..we will have half the seats in parliament’..)..
..this all has me lifting my head..
..and smelling a revolution at the ballot-box..
..(aren’t we lucky to be able to have our revolutions at the ballot-box..?..eh..?..
..thanks to m.m.p…)
i’ve said it before..
..the results for the mana party will be the big surprise of this election…
..and i am picking a mana/grns/labour coalition will bring the second big surprise of this election..
..that and the trans-ideological oppositions to asset-sales..(which will drive nats to the greens..)
..and the economic/social-vision presented by the mana party policy..
..this will all lead to/see the unseating of ‘the most popular”p.m in new zealand history..
..and all this after only one-term…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I am with you Sam. Having had the opportunity to visit South Africa, I can suggest that the main reason why people left South Africa has been because of the huge levels of crime.
Phil, South Africa is a country where most houses have two fences so that thieves cannot get in; a country where windows are barred and so houses look like prisons; a country where entire areas are no go zones, lest you get robbed and murdered; a country where a car is hijacked every ninety seconds; a country where you need to look your car doors and fit your car with flamethrowers to discourage hijackers; a country where you are in constant fear of your life. Would you live in such a country Phil?
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John-ston What you are saying is true because I know a South African Lady who’s father was murdered by his servant.
However having said that I still feel that in part this is a result of the Apatheid system that failed to invest in the future real education of the black population.
Then there was that South African in the Marlborough district who thought it was cool to pack about 50 ‘koolies’ to one house and even had the cheek to charge them rent.
Those people are the problem. and thanks to Philu I will again quote George Brenard Shaw “the greatest of evils and the worst of crimes is poverty”
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Addressing the Imbalance
A month ago there was a little bit of media coverage concerning the wage difference between males and females in New Zealand. The impetus for that reporting was to highlight the defunct thought process of Alasdair Thompson who was dismissed from the EMA for his sexist remarks. Although slowly declining, wage inequality is still a problem that disproportionately attributes wealth based on a male dominated hierarchical system…
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We have the lowest rate of home building in 18 years – the government is waiting for the earthquake re-build to change this but that will mean a housing shortage in Auckland is looming. Any economic recovery will then result in demand for skilled migrants and then the housing shortage will worsen.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/5591587/Rates-set-to-hold-as-building-hits-low
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johnston..i have no problems with sth africans without that baggage..
..(they do exist..i have met one..many years ago…he left sth africa because he couldn’t handle how black sth africans..(who he grew up with/was friends with)..how they were treated under apartheid..
..and he also left..he told me..because of the virulent-racist attitudes of most white sth africans..
..has that changed..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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rugby world cup..?
i’d rather be at burning-man…
..they’ve got a steam-punk octopus…spitting/spewing fire..
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/burning-man-2011-steampunk-octopus-on-fire-at-burning-man-because-why-not-video/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I don’t disagree that you still have a decent number of Afrikaneers (the English South Africans tended to be non-racist) who still have that baggage. You would find, however, that most South Africans that have left have done so for their own personal safety and not because Blacks are ruling the country.
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but for those fans of the odd-shaped ball:..
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/the-30-greatest-rugby-world-cup-moments-slideshow/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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like i said johnston..shame we don’t yet have that racism-scanner (copyright-pending)…
..to run over them…to weed them out..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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john pilger has commented on that c.i.a-coup against gaddaffi..that keith locke as foreign affairs spokesperson for the green party..
..is on record as supporting..
..(i wonder if locke respects pilger..at all..?..)
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/john-pilger-hail-to-the-true-victors-of-ruperts-revolution/
“…On 13 September, one of the world’s biggest arms fairs opens in London, backed by the British government.
On 8 September, the London Chamber of Commerce and Industry will hold a preview entitled “Middle East: A vast market for UK defence and security companies”.
The host was the Royal Bank of Scotland – a major investor in cluster bombs.
According to Amnesty international – the victims of cluster bombs are 98 per cent civilians – and 30 per cent children.
The Royal Bank of Scotland has received £20 million in public money.
The blurb for the bank’s arms party reads: “The Middle East is one of the regions with the greatest number of opportunities for UK defence and security companies.
Saudi Arabia… is the world’s top defence importer, having spent $56bn in 2009… a very worthwhile region to target.”
Such are the Cameron government’s priorities following the great “humanitarian” victory in Libya.
As Margaret Thatcher once declared: “Rejoice!”
And as the bankers and arms merchants raise their glasses – let us not forget the heroic RAF pilots who made Libya ours again by incinerating countless “pro Gaddafi elements” -
- in their homes and cots and clinics -
- and the unsung stalwarts of the British drone industry at Menwith Hill in Yorkshire who -
- before and after lunch – provide the information for drone targets -
- so that Hellfire missiles can flatten homes and suck the air out of lungs – a specialty.
And cheers to QuinetiQ’s drone testing site at Aberporth and at UAV Engines Limited in Lichfield.
The west’s humanitarian mission is not quite finished.
Nearly six months after securing a UN resolution authorising “the [protection] of civilians and civilian-populated areas under the threat of attack” -
- Nato is raining fragmentation bombs on civilian-populated Sirte and other “Gaddafi strongholds” -
- where, says a Channel 4 News reporter, “until they cut off the head of the snake, Libyans will not feel safe”.
I quote that not so much for its Orwellian quality -
- but as a model of journalism’s role in justifying “our” bloodbaths in advance.
This is Rupert’s Revolution, after all.
Gone from the Murdoch press are pejorative “insurgents”.
The action in Libya, says The Times, is “a revolution… as revolutions used to be”.
That it is a coup by a gang of Muammar Gaddafi’s ex cronies and spooks in collusion with Nato is hardly news.
The self-appointed “rebel leader”, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, was Gaddafi’s feared justice minister.
The CIA runs or bankrolls most of the rest -
- including America’s old friends -
- the Mujadeen Islamists who spawned al-Qaeda.
They told journalists what they needed to know:-
- that Gaddafi was about to commit “genocide” -
- of which there was no evidence -
- unlike the abundant evidence of “rebel” massacres of black African workers falsely accused of being mercenaries.
European bankers’ secret transfer of the Central Bank of Libya from Tripoli to “rebel” Benghazi by European bankers in order to control the country’s oil billions -
- was an epic heist of little interest.
The entirely predictable indictment of Gaddafi before the “international court” at The Hague evokes the charade of the dying “Lockerbie bomber”, Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi -
- whose “heinous crime” has been deployed to promote the west’s ambitions in Libya.
In 2009, Al-Megrahi was sent back to Libya by the Scottish authorities not for compassionate reasons, as reported -
- but because his long-awaited appeal would have confirmed his innocence – and described how he was framed by the Thatcher government – as the late Paul Foot’s landmark expose revealed.
As an antidote to the current propaganda – I urge you to read a forensic demolition of el-Melgrahi’s “guilt” and its political meaning in Dispatches from the Dark Side: on torture and the death of justice (Verso)-
- by the distinguished human rights lawyer, Gareth Peirce.
This is not to detract from Gaddafi’s awful dictatorship – a “rendition” destination for MI6 – we now learn.
But his odium is unrelated to the rape of his country by imperial caricatures such as Nicholas Sarkozy -
- a Napoleonic Islamophobe whose intelligence services almost certainly set up the coup against Gaddafi…”
(cont…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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awww- the RWC opening forgot all about the Mori-ori.
Shame those gentle souls have really been wiped literally.
No wonder no one knows what a Kiwi is
S’why you have to state your race at the Border…
Poor Fella My Country.
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i mean…for fucks sake..!
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/commentwhoar-what-unbelievably-crappy-television-coverage-of-the-fireworks-display/
it only went for eight minutes..
..and all they had to fucken do was train a couple of cameras on it…and follow it..
..intead the cameras went everywhere else but..
..has the fucken director got tourettes…?
..they even cut to cranes driving around a fucken wharf..
..for fucks sake..!
..eh..?
..abysmal amatuerism…
..it was like a maniac out of control with a television remote..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Pretty crappy all right… the coverage that is, not the fireworks themselves. And what the fuck were they thinking with the cargo loaders? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can drive those. I don’t mean to piss on anybodies parade, but there are millions of people watching this, somebody should have stepped in when John Key went and hired Bobo the clown. It’s not a World Cup Toty moron… argh! The game should be good though.
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maori television coverage is far superior to tv one..
..takes you much closer/into the game…
..tvone is boring/static..
..they go from tourettes to somnambulism..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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