by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Sun, September 4th, 2011
Tags: general debate
General debate, September 4, 2011
Published: September 4, 2011
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Please use 
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
(apologies for double-posting…but it is a public-service announcement….
..with the potential to end at least some suffering..)
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/feeding-vegan-dogs-with-recipes/
(ed:..one of our vegan dogs is 13 yrs old.
..and looks/moves/runs like a three yr old..
..going vegan for dogs is as good for them as it is for humans…)
let’s save/protect all the animals…not just some..
…eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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doh..!..i left out the bit about all the recipies/tools you will need are contained in that link…
very often i see people walking nine/ten yr old dogs…
..dogs that are doing the old-man shuffle..
..and are looking old/tired…
..some find it hard to understand how this bright/sparkly/lithe/lively/shiny-coated dog in front of them is both 13yrs old..
..and has been vegan all her life..
..she is the best advertisement for the benefits of a vegan diet for dogs i could hope for..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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A local blogger got me thinking about how we are still not managing our waste well and not realizing the amazing potential of the resources we discard:
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/09/wasting-our-waste.html
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@Sprout – Global Radar on TV One had a pretty good show about rubbish this week.
Owen Glenn’s Bribery Blues
On Saturday the 3 September, Sean Plunket interviewed Businessman and multi-millionaire Owen Glenn, on The Nation Program. During the interview he was asked a question concerning donations to political parties. Owen Glenn stated that he would make a donation of $100 million to the government if the National and Act parties won the next general election. It was inferred that he would not make the donation if Labour won…
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“…Wait! Did the West just engineer the overthrow of another unpopular regime to get at an easy supply of oil?
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/the-untold-story-in-libya-how-the-west-cooked-up-the-peoples-uprising/
As I write this, a new day is dawning in Libya.
The “people’s revolt” against yet another tyrant is unquestionably exciting, and the demise (political and/or otherwise) of Muammar Qaddafi will, of course, be widely hailed.
But barely below the surface something else is going on, and it concerns not the Libyan “people” – but an elite.
In reality, a narrowly-based Libyan elite is being supplanted by a much older, more enduring one of an international variety.
The media, as is so often the case, has botched its job.
Thus virtually all of its resources over the past six months have gone into providing us with an entertainment, a horse race -
- a battle, with almost no insight into the deeper situation..”
(cont..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Disabling Sporting Greatness
New Zealand is a sporting nation that loves a good game. We punch above our weight and should rightly feel proud about our achievements. Through the good work of many volunteers, our young are engaged in sports, which is healthy for all concerned. However there’s something this sporting mad nation needs to be aware of; our terrible poverty levels are affecting New Zealand’s ability to produce great athletes…
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Sorry, defamation….. My mind must have strayed back to Jackal’s post
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Jackal, to be fair, tip of the hat to you re sport/ poverty blog. Well said. And unfortunately some of the groups that tend to produce the most naturally gifted athletes also are most affected by poverty. Dam shame and a sad indictment on a society that generates huge amounts of money from sport.
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It is an interesting exercise to compare party lists to see how well represented the diversity of our society is within each. I have looked at the top 15 on each list and am open to any corrections.
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/09/comparing-party-lists.html
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@sprout 3:37 PM
Greens actually have 3 Maori in top 15 – Metiria Turei, Davis Clendon & Denise Roche.
And while I support gender balance, I can’t see how that justifies one of the most incompetent Ministers ever, Anne Tolley, being promoted to No. 8 on the Nats’ list. Rather they had promoted Parata or Bennett. Although I don’t agree with their energy or welfare policies, at least they are more competent at promoting and defending them than Tolley is with education.
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EXPOSE on ACT’s REAL AGENDA
John Minto had a very good article in the Foreign Control Watchdog exposing Act’s sinister and covertly racist agenda. In it he describes ‘the party of property rights demonising Maori and begrudging them even the miserly 1% of their claim. I think that really sucks along with their other policies
Put another way; ‘since the first treaty settlement 19 years ago the TOTAL amount paid out so far to iwi groups is barely half of the 2010′s 1.7 billion payout to South Canterbury Finance.’
Key claims that he would refuse to work with Roger Douglas if he were in cabinet but is Brash any different? Judging by what is exposed by the Hollow men Brash is politically sick.
Of course we are going to get the ACT trolls coming onto this blogsite trying to defend the indefendable. They have even tried to out me!!!
I say bring it on!!!! see http://www.converge.org.nz/watchdog
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http://whoar.co.nz/2011/a-must-watch-video-on-libya/
…and also realise what a beautiful city tripoli was…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Marmallard. At the risk of being mistaken for an ACT troll, as I was genuinely shocked by the stat re settlements v SCF, the green obsession with ACT is simply odd. They are very much a fringe party who may well be extinct following the election. Why worry about them, shouldn’t the greens be concentrating on chasing disillusioned labour voters to bolster it representation, rather than slagging off a bunch of old fellas who should be retired.
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Thanks for the correction, Toad. I also discovered I had made an error with ACT, to whom I apologize, I had originally stated they had 11 men and 2 women confirmed but in fact they have 12 men in their top 15.
If you combined National and ACT’s top 15 you would have a potential caucus of 24 men (all middle aged or older and pakeha) and 5 women with no Maori or Pasifika representation.
The Green/Labour combination would have 16 men, 14 women, 5 Maori, 1 Pacifika, 3 aged under 35 and 1 deaf.
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and the last saw of Mr Feet!
Kicked backward offa the boat…tried to save himself
Shoulda picked Tasmania
If I find him you thugs won’t be gittin him back!
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Phil, vegan dogs = animal abuse
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Mamallard’s suggestion that ACT is inherently racist – and in doing do ignoring ACTs opposition to Labour’s confiscation/nullification of Maori property claims – as patently absurd. And to quote Minto on the subject is to quote arguably the most biased ‘source’ in NZ
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I for one would rather the best person was selected, irrespective of whether they had ‘innies’ or ‘outies’.
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The Contradictions of David Farrar #1
Now we all know David Farrar from Kiwibog can be inconsistent at the best of times, but once in a while he really outdoes himself…
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AJ Kumar
It is amusing that you accuse me of not being based in reality when you make a statement as stupid as that AJ Kumar. Why not have a read of the Electoral Act and come back when you know what you’re talking about.
It would be interesting to see a defamation case based on my opinion that Owen Glenn is corrupt. What was the name of your law school again?
So you argue that impoverished areas produce more sportspeople? The calibre of RWNJ trolls has really gone down hill around here lately.
Shouldn’t you be reading that Act?
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As I said before. A bit difficult for National or ACT to find competent and intelligent women in their ranks.
They tend to care more about their kids and their future and have better bullshit detectors than men.
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gee..!..m.c…
..are you stepping up as my foil..?
ok..
..what evidence do you have for that claim..?
here is mine..(it includes photo-galleries..eh..?..)
http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan+dogs
are you sure you aren’t just taking yr own ignorances/prejudices out for a trot/stroll..?
..there…m.c..?
..as i say…evidence beyond yr declamatory..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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gee..!..m.c..
d’yareckon locking animals in cages for short brutalised lives..
..and then killing them and chopping them up…
..and eating them..
is that the ultimate compliment to you… on their part…?
..or bordering on that ‘animal abuse’ you say you are so concerned about..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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the welcome for the tongan team had me grinning ear to ear…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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did anyone else see that new research out of that english university…
citing cannabis in a positive way..
..as an anti-obesity tool…(go figure…!..)
as in pot-smokers aren’t usually obese..
..and some dude who did a phd on pot-smokers at otago medical school..
..cited as a cause his finding that pot-smokers are more considered..
..more in control of most aspects of their lives..
..than yr standard piss-head..
..he stated that he was surprised at that overturning of the ‘stoner’-myth…
plus..i guess/of course..alcohol is fattening..
..whereas pot isn’t…fattening…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Hey frog, is this general debate or a phool u masturbate?
[frog: Do you have a hangup about masturbation, d4j? General debate is open to anyone to raise whatever issue they choose.]
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i guess m.c…that like john key..
..you are a fan-boy/girl of that total fruit-loop/loon..ayn rand..?
..shall we debate that..?
..the merits of yr fandom..?
(here is some of my evidence…)
http://whoar.co.nz/?s=ayn+rand
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Misanthropic Curds; My above post is merely refering to Minto’s article so: Did you read that article? Obviously not.
Kerry I think you are right women tend to gravitate to the left and it’s not difficult to understand why, they want to see a stable society for the kids to grow up in.
Heyak’s global imperialism is not delivering on that and in Watchdog there is also a good article By Bill Rosenberg (p14) on the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement TPPA that is really the infamous old Multilateral Agreements on Investment MAI in drag that wants to give global corporations equal standing with sovereign governments.
Imagine that! a foreign corporation ignoring a countries environment and labour laws.
Is that a recipe for stability?
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so..got any thoughts/topics there dad..?
..or are you still battling with all that background chatter going on in yr brain..?
..do you still have those constant roaring noises in yr ears..?
..and the voices..?..telling you to do things..?
..that must all drive you a bit mad…eh..?
..dad..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Umm jackal, I’ve actually prosecuted people for bribery and corruption. Suspect I may know a little more on the matter, unless on course you are now the top dog at Crown Law. And your opinion is your opinion until you publish it – I’m referring to your picture of Glenn with the word ‘corrupt’ over it on you blogsite. But keep doing what you are doing buddy, ‘clever’ guys like you are good for my business.
And enjoy the RWC – all those Remuera and Fendleton lads getting stuck in. Wake up mate.
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“Several posters eem to be obsessing over the gentital configuration of various political parties lists.
I for one would rather the best person was selected, irrespective of whether they had ‘innies’ or ‘outies’.”
Misanthropic Curmudgeon, if you read my blog post you will see I agree with you, however any party that can’t attract capable women or talented people from a range of backgrounds obviously does not have the policies or culture that would make them feel welcome. I now know why funding to support Pasifika children has been wiped and why pay equity investigations were axed, there are few in National who would advocate them….
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one thing that is often left undiscussed in the pot-debate..
..is how much of a more quality ‘high’ pot is…
..whereas alcohol dulls the senses…pot heightens them..
..with alcohol..use seems to be binge…leading to all those unfortunate outcomes..
(ask the cops on the frontline what the worst drug is…)
..whereas you have a toke..and then you ride that high…
..alcohol stops you from doing pretty much anything else while under its’ influence..
..whereas the opposite is true with pot…
..alcohol gives vile/painful hangovers…
…pot does not…
..an alcohol-overdose will kill you..
..the only way pot will kill you..is if a bale of it falls on yr head..
..a pot-overdose will see you just fall asleep possibly earlier than you intended..
alcohol is fattening…
..pot is not…
..but really..it all comes back to the quality of the ‘high’…
..and this is where pot really shines…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Sprouts comment that “I now know why funding to support Pasifika children has been wiped and why pay equity investigations were axed” in reposne to a belief that a “party that can’t attract capable women or talented people from a range of backgrounds” is inherently sexist and racist, because you are presuming that a non-female cant understand and advocate something you ascribe to female issues, and that a non-brownface cant understand something you ascribe to brown issues.
As soon as you start ascribing values/beleifs/abilities/knowledge according to gentital configuration or skin colour, you are being sexist/acist, by definition.
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Kerrys suggestion that it is a “bit difficult for National or ACT to find competent and intelligent women” because “They tend to care more about their kids and their future and have better bullshit detectors than men” a good exampke of sexism (from Kerry) that I just mentioned in my previous post.
Kerry is ascribing values and beleifs according to gender, and differnetiating accordingly. Kerry is therefore, by definition, sexist.
And wrong. But that is another issue.
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Marmallards suggestion that “women tend to gravitate to the left” would appear to be flawed, given the gender breakdown shown in http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/polls/election-poll-30th-of-august, which shows 55% of women support National (vs 59% of men).
Indeed, 39% of women would trust John Key (of all poloticans) to babysit (as opposed to 42% of men), and no womaen exceed the ‘dont know’.
To blindly ascribe gender-based distinctions and Mamallard, Sprout and Kerry are doing is not only sexist, it is factually incorrect.
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Will Wikipedia Kill The Jackal?
Yesterday I decided to set up a Wikipedia page for The Jackal blogsite so that people searching for it could more readily find information. I also intend to use it to document controversial and significant topics that relate to New Zealand’s blogosphere, the law and politics in general. Little did I know that it’s a veritable minefield of rules and regulations, which will probably ensure an end to The Jackal article on Wikipedia…
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Did Farrer run that poll, MS?
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Ever heard of something called artistic license Aj Kumar. Good luck arguing a defamation case against that. They wont touch me with a bargpole, because to do so will simply highlight their lies and corruption further.
So what figures/reports do you have that show poverty is good for sport? I’m actually starting to miss photonz1 a bit… If this is the best the right wing can muster up, the stocks must be a dwindling on that side of the fence.
Right Wing Can’t Count
A few days ago I wrote an article entitled New Zealand’s Oil Bonanza… Yeah Right! concerning National’s over inflation of potential income from oil and gas extraction in New Zealand. The sheer level of misreporting going on to promote a destructive process that contributes to climate change, (that threatens human existence on earth) was astounding and completely unacceptable…
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Kerry asked if the poll I have which undermined his (sexist) position was run by DPF (as if that would make a difference?)
It was the Fairfax Media-Research International poll, conducted on August 25 to 29, with a smaple size of 1000 eligible voters, and a margin of error of 3.1 per cent (and was the poll showing The Greens recent surge)
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The Green Party is now a powerful force in education according to the Minister of Education, who suggests that most of Invercargill’s principals are at the beck and call of the local Green Party candidate.
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/09/just-political-stunt-claims-tolley.html
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sprout – you say the protest about National Strandards has nothing to do with politics, or the Labour Party, yet the protest at our school was ALL Labour Party people – but no teachers.
And when teachers have spoken up in the national media against NS – surprise surprise – they always end up have political affiliations like Labour or Greens, or the unions.
And the same applies to you – both political and union affiliation.
Then you claim the campaign is only for what’s best for the children – do you really expect anybody to believe that?
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“Yet the protest at our school was ALL Labour Party people”
Did you guys hear a mighty Solktarian QUACK! just then???
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greenfly – do you know something we don’t and Claire Curran isn’t really an MP – but a teacher posing as an MP?
Or are you dismmissing something that you don’t even have the vaguest knowledge about?
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Did you read my blog post photonz1? National Standards were only an idea conceived by a political party that then forced the Ministry to bring to reality. Because there was no body of research to support them or time to ensure they were valid or tested the result was professional disaster. It should be also noted that the information pamphlet sent to parents was produced by the National Party, not the Ministry.
I would be interested to know the name of your school, Photonz1, as I struggle to believe one like you describes exists. Every principal in Invercargill has serious reservations and concerns about the standards, whether or not their school has complied with the requirements of the new charters, and I happen to know they are not all Labour Party or Green Party members.
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Photonz1, you also be seem to suggest that the National Party is not politically motivated once it becomes the government and that anyone who is a member of Labour or the Greens cannot also be motivated by professional concerns. What a wonderfully simple world you live in….
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Sprout – it’s obivous by your insinuations that childrens education will be a disaster with National Standards, that your motovations are have little to do with real world education, but are politically driven.
It’s simply one of a number of assessment systems that are used.
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Photonz1 – sprout has called you on the bullsh*t ‘school’ you so often cite. I don’t think anyone here has believed for a moment that it was anything other than a construct that you could build your case around, it’s just so … imaginary, the school of photonz1′s children (do they even exist? There is much doubt. We need an independent arbitrator … Solkta, would you mind?)
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Hmm, Photonz1, you’ve change your story, you used to claim that we shouldn’t use all those other systems because that was the problem. The other system’s did work and were national, what we have with National Standards is a flawed system that can never be national.
Photonz1 can you explain how OTJs can be used by teachers to establish consistency of assessment across the country using this example of the Year 8 literacy standards:
“Can synthesise information and ideas within and across a range of texts appropriate to this level as they generate and answer questions to meet specific learning purposes across the curriculum!”
I can do it within my own professional and classroom context but there is no way this can be moderated effectively across New Zealand. Please explain.
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greenfly – again you are so narrow minded you completely dismiss something – even though you don’t have the slightest knowledge about it.
When National Standards have good results, they are dismissed outright – not because they’re wrong – but simply because they don’t align with your politically motivated ideaology.
Your head in the sand approach makes creationalists look positively scientific.
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Photo. Are you so narrow minded you dismiss years of evidence and educational knowledge, over some fictitious kids you have made up to push your political barrow.
Many of us, who teach real kids, know you are talking crap!
I suppose you still believe in the flat earth, tobacco is harmless and neo-liberalism is good for the poor!
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sprout says “The other system’s did work and were national, ”
Rubbish. There were different standards uses by different schools. Some schools barely used them at all. Some schools were not identifying all the children who need more help (you should know this – your school is one of them).
With National Standards schools now have a legal obligation to tell parents how their childrens learning is progressing – something some schools were not doing.
We were measuring kids on one system for a couple of years, then swapping to a differnt system for the next age group.
While there’s some merit is each system, it’s rediculous having trying to see which teachers and schools need more help when we have a variety of different measurements from a variety of different systems (or no assessment results at all).
Only if the SAME system is used, can you start to measure
- children against the same benchmark,
- teaching methods against the same benchmark
- teachers against the same benchmark
- extra training needs against the same benchmark
- schools against the same benchmark
- funding and resource needs against the same benchmark
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“We were measuring kids on one system for a couple of years, then swapping to a differnt system for the next age group.”
Really, Photonz1, what systems were these? Try talking to new entrant teachers about applying National Standards to 5 year olds.
What you are describing is generally related to your own school’s poor systems earlier.
I see you are avoiding my key questions and just repeating ill-informed spin.
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Kerry – is making up false positions on tobacco and planet earth, then ascribing them to someone who has never even discussed those issues – the best you can do?
And you say you’re repsonsible for teaching children?
Do you falsely tell the children what their positions are, on things they’ve never talked about?
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Sprout says “Really, Photonz1, what systems were these? ”
We have year three PAT tests, but they don’t test maths, reading or writing. In year three they test listening.
They don’t test in year two either. In year four they start on maths and reading (but not writing?).
Star tests are for reading, but not maths or writing, and not for year one or two.
Year Net Observation Surveys are for reading and writing, but not maths, and only for year two – not for earlier or later than that.
There are also tests at school entry level, but different schools use different types of test for this. and they are different to later testing systems.
And there are also running records, but these are for reading only, and are usually stopped by year three.
And of course some schools did little testing at all.
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So your school doesn’t use AsTTle assessments? What ongoing formative assessments are used? Assessment systems are basically to support learning and it is up to individual schools to decide what combinations of assessments they need and what their learning priorities are. Most schools do this well and I have no idea how you can use your limited experience of your own school to make judgements on others. National Standards ignore natural variations of child development and there is good reason why the ’6 year net’ is done after a year at school. Many respected educationalist feel formal assessments before the age of 9 is counter productive and even Bill English has stated this in the past.
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http://whoar.co.nz/2011/top-ten-labor-day-songs-videos/
(..and yes..tennessee ernie ford doing ‘sixteen tons’ is there…
..how could he/it not be…?…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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i thought the green mp’s and hone are class-acts…
..for turning up for carters’ valedictory..
..no matter his (hotel/travel-gouging) ways/faults..
..any reasoned/nuanced overview of his time in politics..
..must conclude he did some good work…
..and had he not done his boofhead white-anting of goff..
..(thus setting a new benchmark in rank-conspiratorial-ineptitude…)
..he would still be there…
..he dosen’t deserve his pariah-status from labour…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Hey photonz1 – regarding ‘greenfly – again you are so narrow minded you completely dismiss something – even though you don’t have the slightest knowledge about it.’
- are you a Primary trained teacher with 20 years experience teaching?
No?
I am!
QUACK!
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greenfly says ” are you a Primary trained teacher with 20 years experience teaching?
No?
I am!”
“QUACK!”
And because you’re a teacher you think you know the identity of the people who were protesting at our school, not that you even know which school you are talking about.
And you think you know how well our school is doing with National Standards – again – not that you’ve even got the foggiest idea of what school you’re talking about.
So you’re an ex-teacher who frequently resorts to personal abuse of people you disagree with, instead of discussing issues.
You dismiss things out of hand despite having no knowledge of them.
And you like to make animal noises.
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AJ Kumar Ok so you think I a little paranoid about ACT, yes you are right they probably only stand around 5% at the polls and seem like a harmless bunch of eccentrics.
I might point out that the number of seats they get in the house has always been disproportionate to the % of representation they have.
This has been discussed at lenth on this site many times. They are very clever at manipulating anomalies. Another point is that ACT have very wealthy backers some from the Business Round Table.
In conclusion; I think it would be a mistake to underestimate ACT until they are all pushing up daisies>
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Photo. I teach children to look at the evidence and then make up their minds.
I am relating you to varieties of flat earthers because they have a similar propensity to believe in subjective “anecdotal evidence” when the real evidence overwhelmingly says otherwise.
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MS. Is your poll as accurate as the ones that said Banks will win Auckland.
As I have said elsewhere I do not put much credence on limited polls. Especially ones with deliberately ambiguous questions.
I think, like with the Auckland Mayoralty, support for NACT is much less than imagined.
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Jackal
Artistic licence eh? Of course I’ve heard of it, but not as a defence against defamation. Must be a new one. Why do I get the feeling you just made it up? I sense a pattern developing here.
Merely by mentioning your yet-to-be-tested defence you basically seem to be confirming that you cannot substantiate what you published in respect to Owen Glenn. The sad thing about that mate is that with defamation the onus effectively reverts back to the alleged defamer to prove that what they said was true. Ouch! Let’s hope his lawyers don’t give you a call Todd, although there would probably be a good chance he’d donate the damages to someone.
As for your comments re sports, seems like you have managed to talk yourself in a circle. I have no stats, but only those who are blind or blinkered by their extremism could argue that a disproportionate number of our successful sports people i.e. Valarie Adams, a good number, even a majority, of rugby and league players, boxers etc etc didn’t come from the same communities that are over represented in our poverty stat.s. Show me stats to the contrary if that’s the stuff that gives you your jollies. If, I’m wrong I’ll happily accept it. I actually agreed wholeheartedly with your original post, but in your obsessive attempt to always be right (in a far left way) and superior you seemed to have attempted to create disagreement for the mere sake of it – an excellent demonstration of how communist dogma stifles progress (for those who haven’t heard of Cuba or North Korea).
AJK
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Marmallard. Take your point re ACT, but do you really think they can reach 5%? I’d say National will eat into their support this time around on the basis they are now a known quantity, unlike they were going into the last election after nine years in opposition, and with an inexperienced leader etc. I see the Greens having the same chance to flog a few Labour votes whilst they sort out their shop.
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Kerry asks if “your poll as accurate as the ones that said Banks will win Auckland” and is doing so falsely ascribes ownership of something to me that is not mine. I gave the link/source/margin-of-error from the poll I quotes, and did not claim any ownership of it. For Kerry to then ascribe ownerhsip is dishonest of him.
I suggest that Kerry do as he says he does in another post in this thread, and “look at the evidence” by providing a link/refernce (whi he has not done) to this additional poll he alludes to, rather than simply casting aspersions around.
If Kerry sounght a refernce this poll he introduced to the discussion, then he would know if it was the same one/source or not, and would therefore answer his own question (albeit without the smear).
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AJ Kumar
How have I defamed Owen Glenn? I’ve provided an opinion on something he did say. I’ve provided evidence to show why I have that opinion. We would live in a very boring world if people couldn’t have an opinion on what other people say.
I have not provided a legal defence against defamation. You are not a judge and this is not a court of law.
Poverty has been shown to negatively influence child health and development along a number of dimensions. For example, poverty–net of a variety of po-tentially confounding factors–is associated with increased neonatal and post- neonatal mortality rates, greater risk of injuries resulting from accidents or physical abuse/neglect, higher risk for asthma, and lower developmental scores in a range of tests at multiple ages. – THE EFFECTS OF POVERTY ON CHILD HEALTH AND DEVELOPMENT (PDF).
If you agreed with the original post, why did you attack it? I am often correct in the things I write about. Arguing that the information I provide is factual is not obsessive. You are using a defeatist Ad hominem argument that I do not appreciate. Furthermore, I am not a communist. Have you heard of the trade embargo on Cuba? It would seem Capitalism is more to blame for Cuba’s slow development. However I’m not particularly interested in being drawn into your blinkered debate.
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MS. What are you actually trying to say?
You do not believe in the poll you quoted?
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Yes Jackal, probably time to knock our discussion on the head, it really is getting quite tiring.
Whilst I am not a judge and this is not a court, you did initiate matters by raising a purported breach of legislation by Owen Glenn, so it seems odd that after doing so your would reject any legal scrutiny of your claim.
Re sport, I wrote ‘Jackal, to be fair, tip of the hat to you re sport/ poverty blog. Well said. And unfortunately some of the groups that tend to produce the most naturally gifted athletes also are most affected by poverty. Dam shame and a sad indictment on a society that generates huge amounts of money from sport.’ Did I get the wrong end of the stick?Hardly, an attack. But make of it what you will.
AJK
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Phil seems to think that restricting his dogs behaviour to unnatural practices is not cruel, and appears confused as to what a dogs natural behaviour.
Dogs naturally predate and scavenge carrion, and will schoose to act accordingly if you let them.
Chickens naturally scrtach the ground for grains et al, and will choose to act accordingly if you let them.
Pigs naturally root, and will choose to act accordingly if you let them.
Elephanst naturally roam and browse over vast distances, and will choose to act accordingly if you let them.
Geese/ducks dont normally eat until their livers become engorged
But people lke you seem to think that dietry restrictions on the latter is cruelty, but not the first. As you impose your values on your poor dog.
Offer your dog a lentle and a steak, and see which one it takes, and then try and say that your not imposing your will on a confined otherwise helpless animal, as you inflict a vegan diet on the poor animal.
And I’m not your foil. You’re just wrong.
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(m.c..i repeat…)
gee..!..m.c..
d’yareckon locking animals in cages for short brutalised lives..
..and then killing them and chopping them up…
..and eating them..
is that the ultimate compliment to you… on their part…?
..or bordering on that ‘animal abuse’ you say you are so concerned about..?
..(plus..no evidence..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phil’s avoidance of the issue is noted, as his his attempt to build a strawman around animals as food.
Phil suggests that caging an animal (and feeding what one decides) is bad, but keeping it in his house (and feeding what one decides) is OK. I suspect Phil fails to see his own double standard.
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hardly avoiding the issue..old chap..
..i have provided you with more evidence than you can poke a stick at..
..all you have produced is yr fevered-mumblings/prejudices..meh..!..eh..?
btw..are you paid to comment here..?
..and/or..is it part of any job-description you may labour under..?
..and the abuses/cruelties so unthinkingly heaped upon farmed-animals..
..makes their case anything but strawman-arguments..
..(and the main reason myself/dogs are vegan..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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btw..m.c..
just to give some idea of the life these dogs have..
..i overcompensate for the lack of meat..
..with treats..
..things on toast being a perennial..
..and the oldest dog and i have a ritual..
..she stands expectantly by my side as i make up her mix/brew..
..and i give her a small taste..by hand..
..of each ingredient as it goes in..(she likes that..)
..then of course there are…leftovers….
..compare all that to the commercial killing works slurry/horse-bits ‘dog-food’..and bits so gross they can’t even go in sausages/mince/pies..
..fed to most dogs..
..and the shining coats/hair/age-defying-abilities of my oldest dog especially…
..becomes more understandable…
b.t.w..did you know there was a vegan dog in america that lived to be 28 yrs old..?
..that fact made me go..whoar..!
..eh..?
..and of course confirmed my choices..
..and this may amuse some..an indian lady was putting my choices thru the till at the supermarket the other day..
..and she asked me if i was a vegetarian..
..i said no..a vegan..no dairy..no animal skins..
..she said:..’a pure vegetarian..?..a pure vegetarian..?
..you are going straight to heaven..it says so in the scriptures..
..i am a hindu..”
(now..you don’t often get exchanges like that at the supermarket checkout..eh..?..it’s usually a much more perfunctory-affair…)
..i then told her i had vegan-dogs..
..and she agreed that they would also leap-frog the multiple-lives process/spiritual-development..
..and would likely come back as humans….
..(tho’ whether that is progress for them..is of course..debatable..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“and would likely come back as humans”…?? Think she might have that the wrong way round!
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