by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Wed, August 24th, 2011
Tags: general debate
General debate, August 24, 2011
Published: August 24, 2011
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on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Silence is Deadly – Jim Hansen
The U.S. Department of State seems likely to approve a huge pipeline to carry tar sands oil (about 830,000 barrels per day) to Texas refineries unless sufficient objections are raised. The scientific community needs to get involved in this fray now. If this project gains approval, it will become exceedingly difficult to control the tar sands monster…
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(some more info for keith locke…even hugo chavez is agin’ ya..so let’s see..so far that’s john pilger..nelson mandela..and hugo chavez…
..any qualms yet..?..there mr locke..?
..or still resolute/imbued-with-war-fever….?)
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/chavez-refuses-to-recognise-libyan-rebels/
“….Some more now on those earlier comments (See 6.34pm) by the Venezuelan leader, Hugo Chavez, who said: “We recognize only one government: the one led by Muammar Gaddafi.”
The Associated Press reports that, speaking during a televised address, he condemned the roles of NATO and the US government in Libya’s conflict.
“Without a doubt, we’re facing imperial madness,” said Chavez -
- who accused the US and European countries of using a strategy of fomenting internal conflict in order to seize control of the country’s oil riches.
“Getting the dogs to fight.
Arming here, arming there, and later bombing it and we take that country,” Chavez said -
- describing that as the U.S. government’s aim in the conflict.
“They loot it and they take the international reserves and the oil,” Chavez said.
“This destroys international law and takes the world back to the Stone Age.”…”
(cont…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Wikileaks Traitor – Daniel Domscheit-Berg
After Daniel Domscheit-Berg was suspended in August 2010, he went about destroying leaked documents held by the well known whistle-blower site Wikileaks…
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..that will put kiwiblog out of business..surely…
..at the very least the comments-threads will wither..
..and it will be interesting watching him policing it…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Can you imagine the logistical nightmare for Farrar that would be.
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The people prefer a CGT to asset sales, now all we need is for some party that supports this policy line to be in a position to prevent an undemocratic outcome.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Kiwis-prefer-capital-gains-tax-over-asset-sales—poll/tabid/419/articleID/223233/Default.aspx
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National Guts Education
I came across yet another stupid tweet by Tau Henare today, claiming that National had made more varsity places available. From past experience I know not to trust a single word the pathological liar says, so I went about doing a little research…
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The Ngats have made a lot more Prison Places available – talk about cry-babies throwing toys, they’re living on their nerves alone!
I’ve never seen a person carefully shaving the soles of their shoes off before…
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http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/08/22/300821/nsf-inspector-general-investigation-michael-mann/
…And Rick Perry who claims that the scientists committed fraud, remains the ELECTED Governor of Texas (says a lot about Texans), and a leading contender for the Republican nomination…
Evidence means nothing. We are seeing consensus among wingnuts and that means that reality takes a back seat.
One has to wonder how large their cognitive dissonance can get. It is absolutely awe-inspiring seeing how little so many people want to know about so much of the world.
BJ
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Watching Campbell Live and the item about the Mother who can’t get financial support or recognition of her full time job caring for her severely disabled son, inspired this:
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/08/carers-deemed-low-value-occupation.html
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The Polluters Should Pay
Today Environment Minister Nick Smith announced that one of New Zealand’s most polluted lakes will receive clean up funding. Lake Ellesmere has become heavily polluted, with little care taken by local farmers, which has resulted in high levels of Nitrogen and Phosphorous from unchecked effluent run off. Fonterra will contributed only $1.3 m of the $11.6 million fund, despite them profiteering directly from the environmental destruction…
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I would like to see more activism on challenging local bodies who are ripping off the NZ public and not being accountable.
Phil U some insightfull comments you are making on the Libya crisis. It seems to me that the US military rushed in before the public could know more about Libya and Gadaffi.
But you have to admit Gadaffi made a big mistake sending in his troops to open fire on protesters. He could turned those protests to his advantage. I don’t know what will happen now; will there be an African bank? a united states of pan Africa?
Sad this could have been a valuable bulwark against US corporate imperialism and a fascist Israel.
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The Polluter paying is a fallacy, for reasons explained only a day or two ago.
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A fallacy in your opinion for the reasons you gave, but if the pollution cost became part of the equation then producers who did not pollute would increase in number and the extent of the pollution would decline.
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A remarkable solution to the problems in Europe has been suggested. One that would see the delinquent countries returning to healthy balance sheets in a year if not less.
Simply make entry into the World Cup Soccer Tournament conditional on doing so.
Damn, I know it is a joke but I’ll bet it would work.
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For a price signal to work, it has to hurt, and all that happens when you charge pollutors in a non-compretitive marketplace is that they pass the costs on and don’t change their behaviour. In effect, the charge is legitimising their polluting activity. “We’re paying for it, so its OK”.
Whereas in reality the end consumer is paying for it, the pollutor thus feels no pain, and thus they carry on as normal. And not only that, the entire supply chain benefits from that increased cost.
Rather than trying to use price signals to modify pollutor behaviour, I would argue that we should use direct legislative measures. Tackle the problem, not a derivitive of the problem.
The same logic is why the ETS is a failure, it legitimises emissions, passing the costs (and the embedded profits) of emissions charges straight onto the end consumer.
The only place I think that price signals have a chance of working is if the tax (pollution, emission, whatever) is levied on the business owner(s). That cost will then be part of the investment decisions made by shareholders, and they’ll soon turn away from lower returning investments. With the suggested schemes shareholders benefit from extra costs, as extra pass-onable costs mean extra profit means better shareholder returns.
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I wonder if Anne Tolley still thinks that the education deal she did with the Gaddafi regime in Libya was such a great idea?
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I think both systems need to be implemented. A charge on polluting industries to ensure cleaner enterprises are more profitable and they pay for the resource they use as well as regulation to ensure that costs are not simply transferred to the public. Environmentally clean farming is not rocket science, hitting farmers in their pockets is probably the best way to change their behaviour.
Opposition to Fracking Gains Momentum
It’s been just over a year since the informative movie Gasland was released to rave reviews. It documented the environmentally disastrous process known as Hydraulic Fracturing or Fracking for short, in the Continental United States. Josh Fox’s brilliant movie went a long way to creating awareness of the dangerous process. The share shock value of people lighting their drinking water on fire in Pennsylvania is something not easily forgotten…
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NZSAS Combat Role in Afghanistan
New Zealand’s involvement in Afghanistan was sold to the public on the premise that we were there to help rebuild and train, not be involved in combat missions. Effectively John Key lied…
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Wonder how many of our people are in Libya? – they say Syria’s next – unless of course the Israeli’s attack Iran next month – also a story in the wind.
They might even have a showdown on the Plains of Megiddo – we Christians are getting a bit worried……
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toad says “Gaddafi’s little helper in the Beehive”
Wow !!!! – Libya wanted to send students to NZ to learn education and science.
Better lock up Tolley right now for…um… human rights abuses?…No…..for helping Libyas weapons programme…? No.
Oh that’s right. Lock her up for accepting students for teacher training.
For god’s sake frog – do you expect anybody to take you seriously when you desperately try to link the NZ govt to Gadaffi’s abuses just bacause Libyan students study in NZ.
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It’s Official – Hone Harawira was Setup
You might recall the hullabaloo around comments reportedly made by Hone Harawira regarding the death of Osama Bin-Laden. Well it turns out that he was misquoted, and the National Business Review article contained inaccuracies…
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Libya – goodbye to the lowest childhood mortality rates in Africa – goodbye to the highest education standards too I guess – ancient Carthage changes Emperors again – now watch where all that oil goes – I hope to God no one finds any here!(good education or oil)
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Hone does a pretty good job of setting himself up imo
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Suicide Rate Increases Under National
The latest suicide figures are out and predictably the rate of suicide has increased. The rate of people taking their own lives per 100,000 has increased from 12.04 in 2008/2009 to 12.65 in 2010/2011…
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Jackal says that Hone Harawira was set up (about his quotes about Osama Bin Laden). Not so, as the report from the Press Council quoted on Jackal’s own blog makes clear. But let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good claim, eh?!
The quotes were in Te Reo, on TVNZ’s Te Karere. In the Press Council Ruling, the NBR was criticised for attributing this quote (translation) to Harawira, when the interviewer said it:
“We have heard nothing but negative things about him from the Americans, but he fought for the self-determination of his people and for his beliefs.”
Whereas it is agreed that Harawira did actually say this (translation):
“Indeed, despite what the media have said, his family, his tribe, his people are in mourning. They mourn for the man who fought for the rights, the land, the freedom of his people….”
I’m sorry, but there is very little difference. A set-up? Hahaha.
Oh, and isn’t it good to see such an unbiased presenter on Te Karere? (sic) Doncha just love the way that Harawira gets interviewed by stooges?
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Noticed that Jackal – wonder what the numbers are – including those accorded to death by other means.
I keep telling myself is a ‘money man’ – must know the effects of higher taxes and less consumption on the home front……not only is he unwilling to confront these issues (a la Obama) he is paddling in the wrong direction – flat out like a lizard drinking.
My Aussie mates used to make a jest;
“How do you start a kiwi off in small business?
Give ‘em a large one and let them take it from there….”
Suicide? Say hold that bus….
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ooo sorry – I meant jonkey (forgotten his name already!)
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Jackal says “Suicide Rate Increases Under National” and goes on to say that the high rate of suicide in NZ is directly because of National’s policies.
What a load of garbage – blaming a political party for suicide is offensive to the families of those who have taken their lives.
Countries with vast social safety nets, like Sweden and Finland, have suicide rates 50% higher than ours.
You have a choice.
You could have a intelligent discussion on the REAL issues around suicide.
Or you could be offensive and stupid – and just try to score cheap political points.
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@ Jackal..gotta agree with Photonz here…Having lost a brother to suicide 6 years ago (who incidentally at the time was better-off financially than at any other time of his life)..it never once occurred to any of his loved ones that this tragedy had anything to do with anything other than the shitty abusive up-bringing he was subjected to from a new-born onward (political parties irrelevant in this case).
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I guess people will be offended to see that political policies have increased suicide levels.
Suz, political parties have an obligation to ensure that children are not being abused. A lack of money adds to people’s stress. This has a lot to do with increased abuse.
photonz1, how do you explain the fact that suicide rates fell under the last Labour government but are climbing under the current National government?
Addressing the Socioeconomic safety divide: A policy briefing (PDF):
Overall, the evidence strongly indicates that people with low socioeconomic status and people who live in less affluent areas die more often by injury and violence than do people who live in other areas. Depending on the specific cause and definition of deprivation (see below), mortality rates among the children of unemployed parents are reported to be 38 times higher than among the children of the most affluent parents (Edwards et al., 2006a). Evidence shows a strong association between injury-related mortality and individual- and area-based material deprivation. This has been observed for most causes of injury (such as road traffic, self-direct- ed violence, interpersonal violence, poisoning and burns) and for several settings (such as home, work and transport). Although morbidity studies are less consistent, numerous studies show considerable differences between socioeconomic groups.
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You missed the end off Hone’s quote Far Norther:
You seem to think that the misquote and the subsequent media beat up and tirade of abusive blogs and comments does not matter. Whereas I think reporting should always be accurate. It just so happens that the Press Council thinks accuracy is important in journalism as well… Go figure.
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We have particularly serious problems with both teen suicide and child poverty compared to the rest of the OECD. To some degree there has to be a relationship between them.
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Genesis explains their policy on power generation and power supply sourcing (why carbon charging impacts on the sources of power generation we use).
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/5516143/Genesis-focus-not-on-new-generation
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I agree with Photonz1 and Suz that we can’t lay the blame entirely onto National for the increase in suicide rates amongst our young people, however they aren’t entirely blameless as they determinedly destroy my children’s future with their flawed policies:
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/08/national-wrecks-my-childrens-future.html
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