by Kevin Hague
Have you ever lodged a Community Roadwatch report documenting dangerous driver behaviour on our streets only to get the feeling later on that nothing has been done about it?
I have, and when I used the Official Information Act to find out if my experience as a cyclist was shared by others, the Police couldn’t tell me — they don’t keep any meaningful records about who’s reporting what.
Cyclists’ complaints are getting lost in the system and bad driving is going uninvestigated and unprosecuted as a result. Their negligence is compromising the way they prioritise the policing of roads.
People who ride bikes deserve the same protection from the Police as other road users, but it seems they are being badly let down.
Take a look at the following examples of driver behaviour around cyclist Ian Wilde and comment whether you think the Police should be taking action. Despite the video evidence, the Police are still to act on either incident!
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To see more examples of bad driver behaviour around cyclists that Police are yet to act on, click here.
Kevin
Published in Featured | Health & Wellbeing | Society & Culture | THE ISSUES by Kevin Hague on Mon, June 13th, 2011
Tags: commuting, cycle safety, cyclist, dangerous driving, driver behaviour, duty of care, ian wilde, Kevin Hague, police, vexatiouslitigant
More posts by Kevin Hague | more about Kevin Hague
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Unforetunately, if they don’t hit you, they haven’t broken the law. Members bill, Mr Hague.
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I hate that when people deliberately swerve towards you while passing.
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Perhaps the problem is police are busy enough with actual accidents that they don’t have time to investigate all the accidents that didn’t happen.
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Perhaps the problem is the Police being too busy investigating victimless crimes like possession of cannabis that they don’t have time to investigate cyclists’ complaints of careless and reckless driving that has the potential to be life-threatening.
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toad says “Perhaps the problem is the Police being too busy investigating victimless crimes like possession of cannabis..”
And how much time do they spend “investigating” cases of posession?
As for being victimless – we have people who complain about children in poverty but stick up for the parents spending money on drugs.
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If the Health Education and Welfare Departments were working effectively – our Police would be able to concentrate more on their Mission Statement.
As it is they seem to be doing everything but sweeping the streets.
This can’t be good for morale – as it is the ill, the poor and the uneducated seem to find themselves talking to Police – unnecessarily.
Working with ‘homeless’ children (and taking them in) was an object lesson in how the socially disadvantaged have closed options – and are starting out in life with poor attitudes.
The only real support I got was from the Local Marae, and the ear of a few good people at WINZ.
I don’t wish to downgrade the efforts of all those out there who are doing their very best, but there is the Institutional, convenient Truth and the actual truth (inconvenient).
The easy (!) option is seldom the best one.
Ultimately, it does indeed become a life-and-death issue.
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I am going to take a guess that second video is from Hamilton, where the two lane traffic speed limit is 60Km/hr.
I also notice the rider is riding out a decent distance from the curb, to the point where he is creating a traffic hazard by not allowing the traffic to easily pass.
The road is to be shared, and while the action of the driver cutting you off is bad, it is equally bad for cyclists to create traffic hazards.
No video of the cyclists running or ignoring red lights or on the footpath though.
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Actually, the police devote a lot of their time to other offences that had the potential to lead to accidents but didn’t, like dangerous driving, careless driving, speeding, drunk driving, red-light running etc. Why should driving that is a threat to cyclists be treated differently?
photonz1 then wrote:
“As for being victimless – we have people who complain about children in poverty but stick up for the parents spending money on drugs.”
taken to its logical conclusion, that would also mean prosecuting people for spending money on cigarettes, alcohol, takeaways, lotto, and the thousands of other things that people who might be parents on low incomes might be spending money on instead of on their children.
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kahikatea says “taken to its logical conclusion, that would also mean prosecuting people for spending money on cigarettes, alcohol, takeaways, lotto, and the thousands of other things that people who might be parents on low incomes might be spending money on instead of on their children.”
They should be – it’s called child neglect.
How many of the thousands of kids who go to school unfed have parents who spend money on cigarettes and alcohol and tab and drugs the previous week?
And parents who spend money on those while failing to feed their children should be charged.
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The police are equally slack at dealing with cyclists who continually break road laws, such as speeding, riding thru red lights, or riding on the pavement, etc, etc, and as more pedestrians and cyclists are injured by cyclists each year than cyclists are injured by other vehicles, I think that’s more important than what you’re talking about here.
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@ Ard Righ. In safety cycling courses in London they actually advise riders to stay a decent distance out from the curb. This is because they had sveral cases of cyclists staying close into the curb and being killed because a car or truck pushed them into the side of the road. As a cyclist, you need to stay a certain distance out because it means that if you suddenly encounter a parked car with an opening door or a pedestrian stepping out in front of you there will be room to evade them. It also gives you wiggle room.
the problem is not with the cyclists or the drivers. It is with the government that has failed to provide New Zealanders with the laws and infrastructure that would make cycling safer.
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And infrastructure is part of the problem. A one chain (20m) wide road is just too narrow to comfortably accommodate parking, a through lane each way, a flush median and adequately allow for cyclists.
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I have often been forced into the broken glass and shingle or almost into opening car doors by people who think their right to get somewhere fast is greater than my right to survive.
There are many times when cycling it is unsafe to ride far to the left. On a main street with car doors opening or blind drivers backing out of diagonal parking to name a few.
Cyclists have the same right to use the whole lane if necessary as the geriatric motorist in a hat or the cockie on a tractor. Motorists accept they cannot force the tractor or slow truck off the road to pass. They need to learn patience and do the same for cyclists.
If they are that impatient they cannot wait a few moments for a safe passing spot then they should not be on the road.
There are many road rules I feel are not enforced adequately, but the ones about unsafe passing is one of the most important.
How many of you have seen cars cross the centreline to pass on blind corners? Then have a look at the highest accident spots.
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Kerry says “Cyclists have the same right to use the whole lane if necessary as the geriatric motorist in a hat or the cockie on a tractor. ”
They also have the same legal requirement that if they are travelling much slower than the speed limit and are holding up traffic, they must keep to the left, and they (quote) “must” “- pull over as soon as it is safe to let following vehicles pass”
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Kerry says “As soon as it is safe. Yes!”
But they never do (pull over).
Riding a cycle in heavy traffic is insane.
The only solution if we want more people on cycles is to have cycleways that are physically separate from road traffic
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“How many of the thousands of kids who go to school unfed have parents who spend money on cigarettes and alcohol and tab and drugs the previous week?”
Then charge the parents for not feeding their children. You can’t outlaw everything that parents might conceivably decide to spend their money on instead of on feeding their children, because then you’d have to outlaw almost everything. Even in North Korea they haven’t outlawed everything.
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Kahikatea, I think you posted in the wrong thread.
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There is always some pothead who brings up the old possession of weed story when they hear the word Police, but I think most people appreciate that near misses (which can be an offence – careless driving – not driving in a prudent manner blah blah blah, and also possibly some specicific offence we passing cyclists under the Traffic regs)aren’t a policing priority. This of course is shameful given that it could save lives.
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@ Johnston. Then let’s take out the parking on one side of the road!
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That in itself could create some new issues as, for instance, bus stops are located along those stretches of parking. My own preferred solution is for physically separate cycleways in parallel to the road (obviously, that means that we would need to widen some of the corridors).
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In saying “My own preferred solution is for physically separate cycleways in parallel to the road (obviously, that means that we would need to widen some of the corridors)” John-stons idea wouldrquire the taking of wither verges or public land to give the appropriate width.
the concequences to this on those living nearby would be horrid.
Perhapos a better idea would/could be for a single lane carriage way and one way system, with Jogn-ston’s decicated bicycle paths?
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I like the idea of separate infrastructure for cyclists…but this can only be an answer for main thoroughfares. The roads we currently have are a perfect surface for cycling on; it’s driver behaviour we need to change and I don’t think we, as cyclists, should lose sight of this goal too.
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There appears to be consderable support in this thread for seperate cycling infrastrcuture, but Roberts comment that “we currently have are a perfect surface for cycling on” touches on a more significant issues:
1) roads are paid in large by road user charges, vechicle registrations and the like: should cyclist salso pay some form of road user charge?
2) roads are disgned and built for heavier thinsg like cars and trucks and buses and the like, and are bey definition grossly overengineered for cars. Does such a belief as roberts amount to support for (wasteful) overengineering, or would a reduced quality of road suffice (and what would that mean?)
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“But they never do (pull over).” Yes we do. But we never get the same level of courtesy from drivers.
I pay for the roads to. Through rates, taxes and user charges.
More cyclists mean less cars on the road and less of our export earnings going to pay for fuels.
Not to mention much less wear on the roads.
Perhaps it is the cars which should not be on the road. Especially those just going down to the dairy or taking the kids to school.
Prosecuting car drivers for this sort of inconsiderate driving would make cycling safer. Then maybe kids can bike to school as we did in the past.
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Kerry notes that “Prosecuting car drivers for this sort of inconsiderate driving would make cycling safer. Then maybe kids can bike to school as we did in the past”, and on that we agree. Particulatly the driver of that white Telsar.
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Kerry says “Prosecuting car drivers for this sort of inconsiderate driving would make cycling safer.”
But not a lot. It would still be insane to cycle in busy traffic.
Kerry says “Then maybe kids can bike to school as we did in the past.”
That would be even more insane.
Physical separation is the only answer. They’re doing it in London by creating a network of “cycle superhighways” right across the city.
And if there’s enough space to do it in London, there’s little excuse for any city in NZ.
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@ Ard Righ
Sorry mate you got the location totally wrong, it is Titirangi Road, New Lynn, Waitakere the speed limit is usually 50kph but due to road works the limit was 30kph that day.
I take it you can’t or don’t ride a bike, I am riding at that clearance from the gutter to avoid the unpredictable swerving around drains etc. Try to think of sharing as a two way thing, you appear to have the mindset that believes sharing involves everyone getting out of your way.
I was not causing a traffic hazard, there are three lanes at this point (one right turn only) and the conditions were quiet as I try very hard to cycle in off peak traffic. Not that I commuting cyclist would have any less right to be on the road, especially not any less than the unregistered car that left hooked me!
I can’t show video of me jumping red lights as I do not do that, though I do see many cyclists and motorists jumping red lights, in fact I got a motorist ticketed for just that only yesterday
, it would be great if the Police did something about both these groups. Please do not suggest I jump red lights and I won’t suggest you do either!
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Road cyclists in general are rude, hog the road, and behave poorly if asked to move over.
The last time I asked a road cyclist to move over (in the centre of the lane down Brooklyn hill – a road with plenty of kerb and a huge white space for parking with no cars) he yelled, swore abuses a sailor would blush at and followed me down the hill.
We need a cycling registration scheme so that cyclists can be held accountable.
Then:
a) car drivers would have the knowledge cyclists are legitimate road users re-inforced
b) car drivers would not feel the need to push the law onto cyclists themselves by tailgating, cutting off, or other dangerous manoeuvres
c) cyclists could receive greater protection
Personally I’ve been really put off cycling around the bays because I’m afraid of being lumped in with the same arrogant self-righteous road cycling minority that make destroy harmony and push the buttons of other arrogant car drivers.
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To complete my point , is to say that the ‘Duty of Care’ begins and ends with the Ministers and their Ministries – for whom the PM is responsible – legally – once the problem has been enunciated.
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Oh and we have a Court system, an Ombudsman, and a Governor General who are supposed to ride the boundaries of Omission in the Duty of Care.
By the time it effects cyclists, we are looking at a system that has long since disappeared….certainly I found it thus a decade ago, and have only seen attitudes get worse since.
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@Aidan
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“I agree with both sides, but as an amateur (and intermittent!) road cyclist I’m actually almost on the side of cars.”
So what are the bits do you agree with on the cyclist’s side??
“Road cyclists in general are rude, hog the road, and behave poorly if asked to move over.”
I have never been asked to move over, do you do this often? Cars generally just drive past me without a thought for the dangers they create
“The last time I asked a road cyclist to move over (in the centre of the lane down Brooklyn hill – a road with plenty of kerb and a huge white space for parking with no cars) he yelled, swore abuses a sailor would blush at and followed me down the hill.”
So, the last time you asked a cyclist to pull over the cyclist somehow, managed to keep up with you! It sounds like you didn’t need to pass this cyclist that was keeping up with the flow of traffic, the cyclist was probable annoyed about you trying to pass unnecessarily.
We need a cycling registration scheme so that cyclists can be held accountable.
Then:
“a) car drivers would have the knowledge cyclists are legitimate road users re-inforced”
Really! Like that stopped drunk, stoned, speeding, drivers in unlicenced and unregistered cars!
“b) car drivers would not feel the need to push the law onto cyclists themselves by tailgating, cutting off, or other dangerous manoeuvres”
Do you have these feelings? You need help!
“c) cyclists could receive greater protection”
How did you work that out?
“Personally I’ve been really put off cycling around the bays because I’m afraid of being lumped in with the same arrogant self-righteous road cycling minority that make destroy harmony and push the buttons of other arrogant car drivers.”
I’m doubting you even ever rode a bike sound like total BS
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Should be more flush median and adequately allow for cyclists, and less police.
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That second video clip is cringe worthy..should be illegal to CYCLE on that road.
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@Johnny haha I love how you know you have to capitalize “CYCLING” you obviously realise you are so far from the truth that you need to highlight the point that you have got so wrong. The road is a 50kph residential area, I had just passed a school and was approaching some shops (just to add to how far wrong you have got this!)
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