by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Thu, June 2nd, 2011
Tags: general debate
General debate, June 2, 2011
Published: June 2, 2011
Comment via Facebook
59 Comments
Hide comments with a score of
or less
Hide comments with a score of or less
Leave a Reply
Please use 
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
(what you are missing..)
“…Sofia says:
31/5/2011 at 8:34 am (Edit)
Phil, I have just picked any item at random, to make the comment that I find your news items and range of interesting video references and other articles as a good summary of what is going on both in New Zealand and internationally, and I find your work does met the criteria you have expounded occasionally on kiwiblog as to what you are doing with this blog. Thank you. I hope its popularity increases!
Best wishes, Sofia..”
(ed:..no..i am not related to/do not know sofia…and i am not sofia…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
3 
2 (+1)
What does the term ‘Climate Justice’ mean to you? and what would ‘Climate Justice’ look like here in Aotearoa, in a Pacific context?
Take a look at this link after youve answered
.
There is a fantastic two pager on climate justice in this booklet : http://spaceformovement.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/space_for_movement1.pdf.
[frog: An interesting link, Gary, but those with slow internet should note the file Gary has linked to is 5.5MB.]
Like or Dislike:
0 
1 (-1)
this is seriously cool/good/beautiful..
(and it’s in high def. too..!..)
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/the-arctic-light-time-lapse-video-captures-breathtaking-northern-phenomenon-hd-video/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
0 
3 (-3)
I also am not Phil or Sofia, just an avid fan of whoar..think you do a great job Phil and often peruse your site. As a carnivore who is involved with the SPCA, you’ve given me much to ponder!
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
Help!!! Phil’s got a carnivore and a Fan in one – c’mon fella – you can make it!!!
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
@Mark…3 exclamation points…deep breaths, calm your wee self.
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
chrs suz…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
I’m calm – and a fan of the Whoar – unlike some – I dig the writing style and am apt to mild imitation – sincere flattery I assure you.
Living in a forest for four or five years opened my eyes to ‘animals’ too.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
Can’t we get the candidate photos on http://www.green.org.nz changed? Anyone of them (except maybe James Shaw and Holly W) look like they could be wearing sandals with long socks! Talk about reinforcing stereo-types!
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
@ Mark..apologies…thought you were taking the piss…as a first time commenter on Frogblog via Keeping Stock, via Kiwiblog via Robert Guyton, having found Whoar as an evil right-winger, it’s been a journey!
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
BTW – what about Kerry P as chair of the EPA. She walked out on David Suzuki in Wellington because she got the pip with him bagging politicians for lack of action on the environment. Well, at least she has the opportunity to prove him wrong I suppose.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Did she really walk out on Suzuki? What a dick. I think that’s all we need to know. She’s always represented developers’ interest and is unlikely to change her spots.
Like or Dislike:
3 
1 (+2)
Did you see the film of live cattle being exported/received in Indonesia?
I can’t watch that stuff…..
There are certain local, sympatico sites I can’t seem to access – though I try again occasionally….might be possible as Mr Anonymous
I gather I’m not the only one….welcome, anyway….mark
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
Is Facebook Biased?
http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/is-facebook-biased.html
The world’s largest social networking website which is meant to connect people with friends has once again undertaken “upgrades” that are designed to remove what the administrators determine as groups without enough recent activity. But there’s something far more sinister going on.
Like or Dislike:
1 
4 (-3)
Ah yes – bit of a large file
Here it is on scribd : pages 27-29
Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/36160648/Space-for-Movement
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Why it’s better to have local people in charge of government departments is proven by the comments of the acting head of Treasury as reported in todays Dominion Post.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
chrs mark….
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
2 
0 (+2)
S’why I wonder at our recent Legislation pertaining to the Internet – can access o’seas sites OK – but certain NZ “Left” sites (names thoughtfully deleted) seem to be beyond the voice of this simple country boy!
Can’t be too quick to blame the Govt. – indeed much of this difficulty started before the Legislation did – but WHO would like to prevent like minds from being able to interact – ie; which paranoid Brand of ‘hackers.?
In fact I felt the Laws were passed to enable what was being done illegally anyway
(I only wanted a small revolution….)
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
I am going to say it again, Greens, please, if you really care about the environment and opposing genuine professional vandals, you need to look at what is going on with the West Coast regional council.
It should be sacked, it is as simple as that, some councillors are pretty much daring someone to try.
What do you think Kevin? why are you wasting an opportunity like this?
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
As you might be aware, the Greens have no powers to sack the West Coast Council Shunda. Your best option is to provide further information on the the issues so that MPs can ask any relevant questions within the house. This would hopefully spur National into pressuring Rodney Hide into action. Is he still the Minister for Regulatory Reform? Although you’re probably better off just biding your time and voting for a party in the upcoming elections that does not allow councils to be run in a corrupt manner.
Like or Dislike:
1 
2 (-1)
Maybe my perception is off-kilter but I had the sense that I was the one bringing the West Coast Regional Council’s performance under the microscope. For example here’s Tuesday’s Westport News article, http://westportnews.co.nz/tuesday.pdf, which appeared in the Greymouth Star yesterday. It’s the latest development in a campaign I have been waging on this issue over the past couple of months (and more to come).
I agree with you Shunda; their performance comes nowhere near the standard that New Zealanders generally would expect. One factor is that they have a lot of land and a lot of resource consents to monitor, much of it a long way from where they are, and with a very small number of ratepayers to resource compliance operations. I’m sympathetic to that problem, but don’t see their response (shrugging the shoulders) as adequate. As councillors are almost invariably either miners or dairy farmers, it’s natural to suspect that this isn’t the only reason behind their poor performance.
If you have further evidence I could use, Shunda, to increase public awareness, pressure on the WCRC, or make the case for their replacement, I’d certainly be keen.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0 (+2)
Maybe my perception is off-kilter but I had the sense that I was the one bringing the West Coast Regional Council’s performance under the microscope.
Good on you Kevin, I didn’t realise you had done so much already, sorry for jumping the gun a bit.
I think at least 3 of the councillors are behaving extremely arrogantly, the bragging and provoking reported in the Grey star tonight is just disgraceful.
But to be honest, they seem so emboldened I think they will end up hanging themselves with their own stupidity.
Such blatant conflict of interest should not be tolerated, their seems to be real apathy here at the moment hopefully people will wake up to the reality of these people and their intentions.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Mark
Thanks for reminding me to mention this Mark. I’ve been having a few problems lately with left websites (including frogblog) in that they’re taking a long time to load. This is a network or server side issue.
I don’t think it is related to the new laws as I’ve experienced the problem before. You can check out what sites are being blocked by country on this website: http://www.censorcheap.org/ Although it appears that the slow protocol is also being applied for New Zealand browsers on that site as well.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
“I think at least 3 of the councillors are behaving extremely arrogantly, the bragging and provoking reported in the Grey star tonight is just disgraceful.”
Annoyed now that I didn’t head into the dairy to pick up a Greystar. Tomorrow I’m off to Auckland but will keep an eye on the Greystar website for when it comes up. The conflict of interest issue is definitely one of the lines I want to keep going with.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Nothing appears to display the real efficiency of public transport in Auckland better than an evening journey from the airport to the city centre. It’s a good thing I wasn’t in a hurry or short of money.
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2011/06/auckland-transport.html
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Thanks Jackal; I know certain Pollies loath and detest the Internet.
We have Elected a set that seem keen on granting themselves dubious powers – or powers that are certainly open to abuse.
The Days when I assiduously tracked down each infraction have gone somewhat (mostly limited time).
Interesting though that when I first began using the Net in the mid-nineties there were far more interesting and controversial stories on line that have simply ‘disappeared’ today.
Must compile a list of same when I feel the interest is there – certainly I was able to access a lot more info on US History than my like minded colleagues in the US could find….
I wonder at the advent of the new western police powers – ostensibly to ward off terrorism.
Now Osama’s dead – are the Armies going home?
Nope – business is getting better for the military all the time.
It’s even become a new avenue of employment here in faraway NZ.
It all bespeaks of a limiting of personal freedom at a time when so many in our military are dying ‘defending our freedom’
A quote caught my eye today
“Everybody’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s a really easy way:
Stop participating in it”. – Noam Chomsky
Will check out your link on the morrow
Like or Dislike:
0 
1 (-1)
The week that was 28 May – 3 June
http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/week-that-was-28-may-3-june.html
The majority of people would have heard about Germany’s plans to go Nuclear Free by the year 2022. This caused some New Zealand media outlets to wheel out the kooks to say Germany would need to burn more coal or purchase electricity from France, which derives over 75% of its electricity from nuclear energy and has no plans to change. All they really had to do to get their facts straight was find an article on the net that quoted what the German Chancellor Angela Merkel actually said:
Like or Dislike:
1 
4 (-3)
(i meant to give you this yesterday…)
http://whoar.co.nz/2011/deluded-greedy-and-obese-the-brightest-and-best-in-one-generation-ravage-their-childrens-birthright-%C2%A0/
“…-Perhaps it is not only our fate as elders to confront certain obviously emerging and rapidly converging global challenges – it may also be that we elders are the last best chance for humankind to save itself and life as we know it from itself – by choosing to change our ways and go in a different direction — along a path less traveled by — before it is too late for human action of whatever kind to protect and preserve what really matters most.
There can be no excuse given, no logic contrived, no false promise made and no hopes deceitfully raised that can hide for long the willful blindness, hysterical deafness and elective mutism of those elders who see the human-driven global predicament that is present before our eyes – and choose to do nothing but the unsustainable things we are doing now.
Elders of my generation have responsibilities to science – and duties to humanity – that are being left unattended.
Many too many leaders and experts are shrinking from the task at hand by playing the role of Nero – who fiddled while ‘his home’ was ruined.
To have taken so much from this world, as my greed-mongering generation has taken – and to be ready and willing to leave so little to its children, come what may for coming generations…
… that my friends is beyond the pale.
The silence of so many elders is pernicious because our elective mutism serves primarily to promote the narrow and private interests of self-proclaimed masters of the universe among us.
It is precisely this arrogant, foolhardy, outrageous minority who human beings with feet of clay have unknowingly permitted to rule the world so absolutely in our time.
What if these masters of the universe have taken the wrong road to the future – and have selfishly chosen to direct humankind down a “primrose path” to some sort of unimaginable global ecological wreckage?
What if their ‘guidance’ is mainly self-serving and leads to the extirpation of global biodiversity, the irreversible degradation of Earth’s environment, the wanton dissipation of its limited natural resources …
…and the ruination of our planetary home as a place fit for children everywhere to inhabit?…” (cont…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
Friday Fun with Photos #3
http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/friday-fun-with-photos-3.html
“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”
Like or Dislike:
1 
2 (-1)
Frog – Have you made an error in the title of this subject.
I think you have “General Debate” mixed up with “Spam Folder” where spam adverts for other blogs are filtered to (judging by the last four or five spams – er…I mean messages).
Like or Dislike:
3 
2 (+1)
Didn’t like the last post eh photonz1? The only thing I’m advertising is the fact that John Key is dishonest.
Like or Dislike:
2 
5 (-3)
Jackal says “Didn’t like the last post eh photonz1?”
I’m not particularly fond of any spam.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
I’m not the only one having a laugh at John Key’s expense today:
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/06/top_10_key_moments.html
That’s a pretty crap attempt at plagiarism. The original is better:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5095731/Stuffs-Top-Ten-John-Key-moments
Like or Dislike:
3 
4 (-1)
Todd – that’s palgiarism? …when the very first word atributes it to Stuff, and next comes a link to stuff.
So when you quote someone else, I presume you don’t consider that plagiarism.
So the reason it’s plagiarism when they do it, but not when you do it, is……?
Like or Dislike:
3 
1 (+2)
Your right of course photonz1… My conduct means Farrar can do whatever he likes. A bit like everything being Labours fault. He could have at least inbed the video, perhaps he doesn’t know how.
PS It’s a poor attempt at plagiarism. Literally!
Like or Dislike:
1 
6 (-5)
“Inbed” is a poor attempt at spelling. Literally!
Like or Dislike:
5 
3 (+2)
Stop the bus, somebody made a spelling mistake.
The 1996 Adult Literacy in New Zealand survey of adults from 16-65 ranked reading levels from level 1 (very poor) to level 5 (very good); level 3 is regarded as being “functionally literate,” ie., the minimum level required to meet the “complex demands of everyday life and work.” The survey found that for prose (the “ability to understand and use information from text”) a staggering 66.4 percent of Mäori were below this minimum level and an equally tragic 41.6 percent of non-Mäori.
Like or Dislike:
2 
3 (-1)
Todd sacasticly says “Stop the bus, somebody made a spelling mistake.”
After recently saying
“*Corrected your spelling mistakes.”
Ooooh – the hypocrasy.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2 (+1)
“sarcastically”, “hypocrisy”
Like or Dislike:
2 
0 (+2)
Climate change and food supply
ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13628374
developing farming health risk
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13632369
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Green deal for home insulation in the UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13626406
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Open season on the waterways of Southland
http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/5093192/Editorial-Pushing-what-uphill-again
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
National’s Fracking Response
http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/nationals-fracking-response.html
There’s no question that fracking is a destructive method of extracting natural gas from within the Earth. It’s been proven to be highly dangerous and environmentally damaging in many reports and accounts over the last few years, something the Acting Minister of Energy and Resources Hekia Parata is shamefully unaware of. The destructive process simply has no place in a country claiming to be 100% Pure…
Like or Dislike:
3 
3 (0)
Excellent! Greens push Kiwibank for Govt contract
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5100925/Greens-push-Kiwibank-for-Govt-contract
The Green party wants to ”fix” our banking system so we are no longer “mortgage slaves to Aussie banks”. Co-leader Russel Norman says the Government’s banking contract should be taken over by state-owned Kiwibank.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2 (+1)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10730205
“If DSK is guilty, I suspect I know how it happened. He must have mistaken the maid for a poor country in financial trouble. Heads of the IMF have, after all, been allowed to rape them with impunity for years.”
Exactly. AND where NZ is doomed to follow.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
Todd says “Greens push Kiwibank for Govt contract”
A Green beat-up?
Russell should remember last year Kwiibank itself said it would take them ten years before they had the capability to look after govt banking.
So either it’s a beat-up, or Russell doesn’t have much idea of what he is talking about.
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
He said that an increasing share of the contract should go to Kiwibank until it could take it all over. But don’t let your ignorance of that stop you rushing to continue your normal routine here.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
15 Ways National is Failing Kiwis
http://thejackalman.blogspot.com/2011/06/15-ways-national-is-failing-kiwis.html
There’s been a fair amount of rhetoric and spin regarding National’s negative policies lately with their PR consultants working overtime to try and protect brand Key’s declining credibility. Presently National is purposefully avoiding the issues in a process of obfuscation that is ultimately bad for democracy. They’ve largely managed to avoid any direct criticism or had to answer the really hard questions. So while mainstream media gives National a hospital pass, the Jackal outlines some of the facts concerning recent disinformation.
In other news: photonz1 drives all the green blogger’s away.
Like or Dislike:
0 
3 (-3)
Todd says ……..spam spam spam………….yawn……………..zzzzzzz
…….
Do you have anything to say that’s NOT spam for your blog?
If you’ve got something interesting to say, then you should say it.
If you just want to advertise your blog, then have you tried google adwords?
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
Yes! The Jackal is currently using google adwords with around 80 clicks per day from one advert shown aprox 250,000 times per week in English speaking countries. I post here because there’s sometimes good debate generated and I believe the Jackal’s items are generally relevant to frogblog reader’s. I would not personally consider adwords spam either and until frog mentions that my links are irrelevant, I will continue to promote what I write here. You’re welcome to continue eating sower grapes if you like photonz1, but it’s particularly uninteresting to read.
Like or Dislike:
1 
4 (-3)
Kiwi bank doesn’t have the capability to process the volume of transactions needed to be the govt banker. Their payment system is not capable of being scaled up and is struggling to do what it is asked today. They also haven’t even got a strong business banking capability. It will take many years and a huge investment in systems before they are even technically capable. Then they’ll have to work out how to run the process.
this kind of thing is really hard to do. For example, MinEd has been working on trying to switch over the teachers’ payroll system for years, and it is going to be two years late. That is a much simpler job than transaction payments done in batches of hundreds of thousands of payments.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
Russell is reported in the NZ Herald “The Australian banks had “made a mess” of the economy, “borrowing for speculation in land and housing to maximise their profits at the expense of New Zealand”.
When he pimps for Kiwiibank, who say they don’t have the capability to handle govt banking for a decade, does he really have any idea of what he is talking about?
To see who is really “borrowing for speculation in land and housing” see http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10729374
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
He said that an increasing share of the contract should go to Kiwibank until it could take it all over. You have had your attention drawn to this fact and your refusal to acknowledge it speaks volumes as to your sincerity. Talk about two dimensional.
Is there any evidence that Kiwibank is lending to speculators and not own your home buyers … . Na.
As to Kiwibank borrowing offshore at the moment – the RB required the Oz banks to finance more of their lending via local deposits – so now they compete to get them, Kiwibank already meeting this critieria (having so much of its loans financed with local deposits already) is able to take advantage of cheaper borrowing offshore at the moment to improve its profitability. It’s just a business opportunity unique to them at the monent.
The low deposit lending to speculators with foreign money 2002-2007
was done by the Oz banks but you already know that …
Like or Dislike:
3 
1 (+2)
Jackal, your posts have, on average, less content than photonz’s.
I know why you’re doing this; frogblog has more google credibility than your blog, and by linking from here to there multitudinous times you’re trying to make your blog more relevant and thus searchworthy in google.
At least you are honest and say you are “promoting” your links here.
There are other contributors whop post links to their blogs, but they do a lot more than just link dump.
Adding some content, your blog notes “The cost of living has increased dramatically under a National Government” – its been increasing for at least 50 years in an unacceptable manner
And the Paula and her friends thing, its wrong at no right turn, and you’ve done no more than parrot it.
It is true, the government could have gone to tender for the development of “The Toolbox”, but someone else already had one. The TV news produced plenty of people who said “we could develop something like that”, and a woman who said she had most of the bits already and could assemble something similar, but no-one who had a product ready to go.
It could also be argued that going out to tender to request a clone of the product the government already wants (because it exists) is an intellectual property rights violation.
Though it is true, it doesn’t look good, no matter how sensible it is.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
dbuckley
I was not aware that we were having a competition re content. Perhaps I should trump that with one website called the Jackal. Time to show us your hand photonz1?
The links in frogblog give no further google “credibility” to searches. In fact the links are not searchable in themselves, although google does take into account outgoing and incoming links, it has little effect on google search ratings. The links would be just as beneficial in this respect for frogblog.
The Jackal is presently achieving high ratings in searches because the articles are relevant and being viewed by the wider Internet community who is using the google and yahoo etc search engines.
It would seem that you’re chastising me dbuckley for “dumping links” and then try to debate me here about content on the Jackal. If the Jackal’s links here are irrelevant then your debating content on the Jackal here is equally irrelevant. But I suppose you will not even see the contradiction of your ideology.
It is no skin off my nose if you don’t read the links or the lead in posted here, or follow them to the entire article.
As for your comment that I am parroting Idiot/Savant, I take absolutely no insult from such an observation. NRT has pretty much said it all there. I have utilized information on NRT, likewise I believe he’s utilized information on the Jackal. This is a normal and positive sharing of information and ideas that is the basis of journalism.
I’m bored of this line of debate, there are far more interesting things to talk about. Perhaps frog would like to again clarify the guidelines for you. Could you write it down this time so you remember?
Like or Dislike:
0 
1 (-1)
“I’m bored of this line of debate”
That makes perfect sense.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1 (-1)
@ dbuckley
I think russel’s idea re kiwi bank is just a feel good thing. There is no substance behind it. To do any part of the govt’s banking you have to have a highly capable system to start off with as it involves large numbers and large volumes. You can’t just chuck some savings accounts at kb and expect them to build on it. Kb has to do the hard yards and build a capable system and back office before we risk the govt’s payments on them. The chicken definitely needs to come before the egg.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
Insider, I agree, but since I haven’t posted on the topic of Kiwibank, I suspect you have mis-attributed to comment
But Kiwibank’s time will come though, when it does have the capability to deal with an account the size of the Government. Perhaps it ought to start with local councils who do many similar things, but on a smaller scale.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Well done. Some fool of a journo quoted you in the DomPost political briefs without even checking your link – which is wrong and goes to the Green family website! Worst part is the photos are fine!
Like or Dislike:
4 
0 (+4)