by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Sun, December 5th, 2010
Tags: general debate
General debate, December 5, 2010
Published: December 5, 2010
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Please use 
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
(from q & a)…
..paul holmes has a ‘man-crush’ on john key….
..(you should see him gush…!…
…he alternates gushing with twittering/simpering…
..it’s not pleasant to watch…
..and should come with a ‘could-disturb’ viewer-warning..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Stop the Trans Pacific Partnership!
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/big-tobacco-wants-tpp-trade-deal-block-nz-s-smoking-laws
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4 (+2)
Absolutely Valis. Nothing is better than “free trade”. It really is.
BJ
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Wikileaks is currently under heavy attack.
In order to make it impossible to ever fully remove Wikileaks from the Internet, we need your help. If you have a unix-based server which is hosting a website on the Internet and you want to give wikileaks some of your hosting resources, you can help!
Please follow the following instructions:
* Setup an account where we can upload files using RSYNC+SSH (preferred) or FTP
* Put our SSH key in this server or create an FTP account
* Create a virtual host in your web server, which, for example, can be wikileaks.yourdomain.com
* send the IP address of your server to us, and the path where we should upload the content. (just fill the form below)
We will take care of all the rest: Sending pages to your server, updating them each time data is released, maintaining a list of such mirrors. If your server is down or if the account don’t work anymore, we will automatically remove your server from the list.
Our content is only html/css/javascript/png static files, so we don’t require much resource to host it.
The complete website should not take more than a couple of GB at the moment (with base website and cablegate data)
To add your mirror to the list, please download the SSH key you will find below, then fill the following form to add your website to our mirror list.
http://46.59.1.2/mass-mirror.html
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Want to see the banks squirm, this will do it…
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_50/b4207035613107.htm
BJ
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The stern message from Judith Collins and the police “DON’T FLEE FROM US!!” isn’t working at all.
Changing the emphasis of the reports isn’t having any effect either.
How many deaths by pursuit/flight will there need to be until there’s a change in approach to this issue?
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http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1012/S00094/turning-an-imposium-into-a-symposium.htm
Is it just me or has the country had a gutsful of Fed Farmers going on about farmers as ‘environmental stewards’ when a hell of a lot of the environmental problems we’ve got in this country are due to farming practices? Yes, farmers do a lot to protect the land. They also did a hell of a lot to stuff it up in the first place!
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Anything can be cut off the ‘Net’ ime
In many ways, it was a more informative vehicle than it is today
The surprising thing about Wikileaks is that there are no real surprises involved.
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For example; I accessed the deathbed confession of one Lloyd Jowers – who laid out the whole MLK murder in exact detail – well not only have my DC friends never heard of him – but his Litany is erased in all but menial fashion today
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“..I accessed the deathbed confession of one Lloyd Jowers – who laid out the whole MLK murder in exact detail ..”
gotta link..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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They still do a lot to stuff up our land Skinman… and the lakes, River’s, oceans etc. Got to love those farmers huh!
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BJ and Gerrit. We already have a good model for sailing trading vessels. The scow. A barge shape is the most efficient for load carrying.
I will trade you my design for a biplane catamaran if you wish.
The people marans in the west Indies carry 50 odd passengers at speeds around 20 knots. http://www.goldcoastyachts.com/
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Kerry,
I would say we need both types, fast cats for people and perishables and landing craft type ships for heavy (eg. logs) loads.
Individual operators will choose the type they need for the market they wish to operate.
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I really like the idea of sailing ships making a comeback.
But. Even if fossil fuels become extremely expensive I suspect diesel powered ships will be the lowest energy and cheapest form of bulk transport for a long time to come.
To replace just one 7000 ton coastal container ship you need at least 20 sailing ships. The materials and energy requirements to build and maintain them would cover many years of diesel use.
Still think we should be aiming to cut energy use wherever possible for buildings and land transport as a first option. Keeping fossil fuels for places where it is essential.
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I WAS thinking in terms of a soft-sided wing. The main spar would still be able to generate lift, but would be far more controllable than the full wing. I have a design in mind and my familiarity with wings and lift coefficients is pretty good. Oracle and Alinghi don’t have the option of powering and automating the task of keeping the sails feathered either.
The more telling issue is the size required to actually ship any appreciable cargo. I so seldom think about these things in terms of cargo, all I should do is apologize. However, the notion of having a cardioid cross-beam with substantial mass capability in the center of the vessel isn’t so difficult. I think you might be surprised at how much mass a decent sized cat could handle in that sort of configuration.
The positioning of the wings/masts over the hulls rather than on the crossbeam substantially reduces the stresses in the crossbeam.
Even so, though I have the picture of this in my minds-eye, it is nothing that has ever been built before.
Also, I question the need for being able to load and unload much mass from an unsupported beach environment. A small wharf with adequate depth of water is almost certainly feasible in many small harbours.
moot point. I’m not gonna get to do any of it.
BJ
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BJ,
Main reason for beach and mudflat access is to shorten the transport distance from the recipient/sender to the ship. Get it as close to “door to door” as possible.
Wharfs are good too just landing fees cargo but you have handling charges and state controlled rubbish to put up with.
Will have to see how the foreshore and seabed debacle pans out. May be impossible to land on a beach or construct a wharf soon.
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Why the prices and sales of the more EXPENSIVE houses have picked up lately…
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/12/us-money-supply-figures-were-not-in.html
What? You say, no that’s the US doing that? …but the hot money… it flows across borders without resistance. Doesn’t matter who creates it, it affects everyone. Sort of like CO2 and Global Warming.
BJ
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david farrar is hands-down/frontrunner for the december the-bleeding-obvious-tarted-up-as-a-prediction award…
“..they indicate to me that the Clark loyalists will roll Goff straight after the 2011 election, unless he wins…”
well..duh…!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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There are people that think Goff can win?
What a strange world we live in…..
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Alarmist Doomsday warning of rising seas ‘was wrong’, says Met Office study
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335964/Alarmist-Doomsday-warning-rising-seas-wrong-says-Met-Office-study.html
Seems the original 2ft to 3ft estimates are now possible but 6ft is most unlikely.
Sadly just about every council has jumped on the six foot “alarmist” model. I wonder how many years it will take to re-write their plans.
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I find the Guardian writing to be a mixture of confusion and obfuscation… dragging in odd bits to imply that other bits are wrong. It wasn’t the IPCC that predicted 2, but you wouldn’t know that from reading the Guardian, would you. You would do better to go to the horse’s mouth, than to listen to those noises…. from the other end of the horse.
As for revising plans. As an engineer used to dealing with uncertainty, if faced with a prediction of an almost certain meter of increase, and given the levels of uncertainty associated with the ice, how much would you PLAN for? Particularly given that much of what you do has to last a lot longer than 90 years???
BJ
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Lets try a more credible newspaper at least.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/science/earth/14ice.html?_r=1
and while we are at it – three related issues:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/12/coldest-winter-in-1000-years-cometh-%E2%80%93-not/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBxzMMCokpI
…and…
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/11/the-new-post-partisan-world/
I know it isn’t all that much, but the Guardian writers tend to cause nausea, largely to their inability to follow any logical thread at all, and it is close to suppertime.
BJ
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So Owen is finally admitting that sea levels will rise by as much as 70cm to 1m this century.
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Of course, we are emerging from the little ice age which officially ended around 1850 and normal expansion gives us that amount of rising on average.
On the other hand that tells us noting about sea levels in any paricular point on the earth because tectonic platemovements and bounce back from the ice age frequently overwhelms temperature effects.
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(owen..i’ll just post a copy of the response to yr dual daily mail posting…
…over at kiwiblog..)
“…Owen, you really do bottom trawl, don’t you?
To prove your credibility on this, please link to the actual IPCC passage (all the reports and working papers are available free on the webiste, as I’m sure you are aware)…”
over to you…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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LIA has nothing in common with the current temperature trends… which means that the temperature trends affecting the expansion of the ocean aren’t part of that “recovery” either.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/coming-out-of-little-ice-age-advanced.htm
The observation that local sea-level measurements are hard to correlate against the global is correct though, and Owen is entirely right to hold that up.
At the end of the day, the ocean expansion due solely to temperature change is good for half a meter, which puts just that much more pressure into the water attempting to get under the WAIS and the glacier’s tongues.
…and in the end, the question of how much ice falls into the water how fast is not answered by considerations around the LIA. The LIA and any possible explanation of temperature related to it, is actually largely irrelevant to the discussion.
Once we can see the acceleration in sea-level rise it is already too late to stop it. A thousand years before our activities would we have the slightest impact unless we reach into space for the answer… and I see no sign of that at all.
I would have to become quite optimistic for my opinion of this to rise to the level of mere pessimism.
respectfully
BJ
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CYF slow to follow up child neglect, says report:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10692591&ref=newsl_morningnewsdirect_J20080513_133717_5781_6889_875540616
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http://whoar.co.nz/2010/nick-cleggs-unexpectedly-swift-journey-from-idol-to-hate-figure/
“…Once upon a time, long, long ago – well, six months ago – Nick Clegg gave a pre-election interview to the Observer in which he forecast “Greek-style” unrest on the streets of Britain if the next government tried to drive through policies for which it did not have a proper mandate.
I thought at the time that this was over-the-top attention-seeking by a Lib Dem leader who was then struggling to make an impression on the consciousness of the nation.
For this was before the leaders’ TV debate which briefly transformed him into the messiah of a new politics.
I am now happy to admit that I was wrong and he was right.
The government is facing street demonstrations with a Greek streak during which the protesters roar that they have been betrayed.
What Nick Clegg didn’t anticipate – where his crystal ball let him down – was that he would be the focus of the fury…” (cont..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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mm!!!!..porridge…!
those big fat flakes of the stuff…
..cooked with raisins/banana/apple/pear…
..and poured over a layer of blueberries…
..and drizzled with vanilla flavoured soy milk..
..fuck..!..us vegans have it rough…!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Owen McShane
2′ to 3’3″ is still a huge rise. What exactly is going to be the cost of coastal redevelopment and additional flooding from this? Remember their predictions are only 80 or so years away… That’s in your kid’s lifetime. It’s a Government study the reporter is quoting from; the rise in ocean levels wasn’t the only figure they got wrong. The fund to help poor countries deal with global warming is only 20 not 60 billion pounds. Most governments aren’t exactly independent of the oil industry, and it’s not just that industry that is putting up a fight:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/high-court-will-review-climate-change-lawsuit-1022317.html
Then we have the US lack of action and underhanded manoeuvres at PICC, which was set up to review and assess the evidence on climate change, admitting that it’s processes were compromised:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/dec/06/wikileaks-rajenendra-pachauri-iran-un-climate
And a total lack of action on predictions that global temperatures could rise by 4 Degrees Celsius By 2060, that’s in our lifetime, well mine anyway:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1956947/global_temps_could_rise_4_degrees_celsius_by_2060/
Join the US government with your head in the sand anyone:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/01/house-gop-global-warming-committee_n_790739.html
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that’s the thing about starting working at 5.00am..
you have 28 stories/links nailed by 9.00am..
ka-pow…!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Stop cooking that oatmeal Phil! You’re ruining it!
Eat it raw, as I do, don’t boil it to glue. Pile on as much fruit and juice as you like but don’t destroy its goodness with cooking!
I don’t need to ask if yours is organic, do I?
You wouldn’t eat the ‘dowsed in pesticide/rodenticide/fungicide muck that’s on most supermarket shelves, would you
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porridge makes up 5% of the dish..
..the textures/flavours of the cooked fruit soak into it…
..and ‘organic’..?
is that what the rich folks eat…?
..that they get from those food boutiques/health-food shops..?
..ya hafta have a good credit rating to get thru the doors of those p;laces…
..we just stand outside with our faces pressed to the windows…
..’look at that…soy milk for six dollars…!
..does it have gold flake in it..?’
..and i don’t ‘boil it to glue’…
..bring to boil-then gently simmer…
..for just the right length of time..(your nose will tell you..)
..and if you use the big/fat/chunky flakes…
…you don’t get glue…
..(i can’t eat that powdery-muck…)
..but..’organic’…y’say..?
..well i never…!
..wait ’till i tell the others…!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Read and grieve for the lost opportunity.
http://www.celsias.co.nz/article/country-sitting-top-cleantech-pile/?utm_source=CelsiasWeekly&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=20101208
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congratulations to russel norman on his impending fatherhood…
..if ya focus….it’s a pretty cool thing to do…
..that fatherhood thing…
(so..at around about election time…
…you will have baby-fever…?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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here is a smackdown of the latest ‘expert’ owen mcshane is relying on for his climate-change bullshit…
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/george-monbiot-articles-in-the-daily-mail-show-the-same-uncritical-reliance-on-dodgy-sources-that-caused-david-roses-catastrophic-mistakes-about-iraq/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Owen might appreciate this though…
http://www.coolestone.com/media/787/Text-Messaging-Vs-Morse-Code—-Jay-Leno/
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nice people take drugs too…
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/nice-people-use-drugs-tooonly-certain-people-and-certain-drugs-are-stigmatized-while-others-are-normalized/
‘…only certain people and certain drugs are stigmatized – while others are normalized…”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Ye Gods Froggo! I’ve just seen Australia’s next PM; – the Green Party’s Bob Brown – what an impressive news conference – check it out!
PS Why are the likes of Bill, Jon, Winston etc etc wearing Green ties? – are they trying to inherit our imaginations? Inherit the avante-garde whilst drifting bereft?
Bit like Warney bowling for the Poms – the Pope wearing a crescent moon eh?
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congratulations to russel norman on his impending fatherhood
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