by frog
As the Government presses on with the ACT Party’s policy of extending its fire at will law to all employees in their first 90 days on the job, the NZ Council of Trade Unions are highlighting more instances of employer abuse of the existing fire at will law.
Here’s Aaron Greave, a Timaru chef who was purportedly dismissed under the 90 day trial provisions for using too much sauce and aioli – without even being given a warning and without any right to challenge his dismissal:
Published in Economy, Work, & Welfare by frog on Fri, November 12th, 2010
Tags: 90 day trial, Aaron Greave, fire at will, helen kelly, NZ Council of Trade Unions
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
“Definitely not the kiwi way of doing things, and neither is this law”
He sums it up well.
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I thought the post title was a joke at first…
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Zeig Hile, Herr Hide & Herr Key.. “FIRE AT WILL !!”
Kia-ora
[frog: Well that didn't take long, did it Mr Godwin? I don't think Nazi references add to what is already a strong argument against this legislation, zedd.]
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“[frog: Well that didn't take long, did it Mr Godwin? I don't think Nazi references add to what is already a strong argument against this legislation, zedd.]”
Maybe some should tell Bomber Bradbury since this seem to be his only argument against anything National does.
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If he didn’t do that, then he can’t be fired under it.
Surely the Union should know that, and be blaming the employer, instead of trying to mislead people and blame the law (which protects Aaron in this case).
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@photonz1
Yes, you are right about the first bit if he hadn’t actually signed an employment agreement, or even if he signed one after he had actually started work, because then he would not be a “new employee”.
And I suspect this matter is being progressed judicially, but why should that stop unions from using cases like this as part of the campaign against a law that encourages employers to behave in an unfair manner, as this one appears to have done.
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Video was good and informative, until that illiterate panic mongering Helen Kelly turned up. She should be purged from the public spotlight should the CTU wish to make any further ground in their campaign.
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Again, I think the question must be posed – how do we deal with the other related issue of employees getting mega payouts from the lottery that is the Employment Court? How do we deal with the culture where employers are so scared of litigation that they will pay thousands of dollars in out-of-court settlements even though they were clearly in the right?
Because, let us be honest, this law would not be necessary if we didn’t have instances of former employees who were sacked for good reason getting $10,000 payouts. If you come up with a solution where employers will only get punished where they clearly did something wrong, then I think that most people who are in favour of the ninety day law will switch sides.
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/4337400/Sacked-chef-alleges-unfair-dismissal
Seems like there was more to it than the CTU were leading on.
Surely the CTU must have lnow there would be a counter suggestion on what happened and that it was not all as it appeared in the video.
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Gerrit, that may justify a formal warning in some circumstances, but it is not at the level of misconduct that justifies a sacking without the employee being given any idea that his employer thought he was doing anything wrong that could lead to his dismissal and without any opportunity to improve his performance.
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He’s allowed to quit at any time without giving a reason, now employers (who are people too, you know some good and some bad) have the same option.
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Toad,
Cant find anywhere to suggest that “due process” was not followed. Seems like he got plenty of warnings and that there were personality clashes (to do with unauthorised changes to the menu).
Maybe you can enlighten?
CTU spin certainly cant.
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Frog, where is all this^ damned spam coming from?!
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you call it ‘spam’…
we call it comments from shunda barunda…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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@ Samiam 5:34 So… an employer can higher you and then decide that they don’t like you for lets say being 10% Maori. You might have mentioned this while on the job working as hard as anybody else could. The employer might throw in some excuse but essentially the new employee is being sacked because of their ethnic origins. Signing up to the 90 day terms means you can’t make a Human Rights Commission complaint. This is totally unacceptable. There needs to be security within the workplace so that employers don’t take advantage of this legislation to further their racism etc.
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Todd, anyone who might fire someone for the hypothetical reason you stated has a mental illness.
Now if it were to be 11% maori…now that’s a different matter!
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Actually Samiam the standard theoretical racist employer has been shown to only react to levels of Maoriness above 11.75%, studies have shown that as society becomes more tolerant, it has an effect on theoretical racists.
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you call it ’spam’…
we call it comments from shunda barunda…
Well Phil, frog removed the spam and left my comments so…yeah.
Hey Phil, why do you fell the need to ‘guard’ Frogblog from the likes of me? you kind of remind me of that other grumpy creature that guards things, you know, like bridges etc.
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Yes samiam, racism is a mental disease. Good on you for spotting that one.
shunda is referring to herself, the troll made of straw. Not sure how he will go at Guy Fawkes though.
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time-wasting/dissembling/talking from both sides of mouth/straw-man-arguments..
…never any ‘sources’/evidence…goalpost-shifting…
..a complete absence of any intellectual-rigor…
..basically…all the hallmarks of a rightwing troll…
..(seeing as you asked…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“..you kind of remind me of that other grumpy creature that guards things, you know, like bridges etc…”
steven joyce…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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…goalpost-shifting…
Stuff the the “rules” phil, I am sick of pandering to the sensitive and politically correct.
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w.t.f..?
do you know what ‘goalpost-shifting’ means…?
..and that line you wrote couldn’t be a better example of the meaningless-drivel you inflict on us….
..i mean..cd u be more cliche-ridden..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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There’s lots of other blogs you can do that in shunda!
He must be a bit blind with rage there phil u, makes people stupid sometimes… notice the the stuttering.
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Perhaps you guys could ask frog to ban me?
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not at all…i am totally not in favor of suppression of free speech..
..i mean..if you want to turn up here all the time…
..and make a complete idjit of yrslf…
..that is yr democratic right..eh..?
..just don’t be surprised when nobody takes you seriously…
..eh..?
phil9whoar.co.nz)
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Phil, I can accept I can be a bit of a dick at times, but your constant accusations of me being a right wing troll etc are just silly.
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the greens dont say ‘dick’….they say..
‘a bit of a richard’…eh..?..
(it’s an in-joke…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I don’t believe that Shunda is a troll at all.
He’s not, in my opinion, here at anyone’s behest, nor is he trying to derail ‘green’ discussions. He shoots from the hip/lip and offers a view that wouldn’t be otherwise represented here.
Give him a break. He’s good natured and sincere … and young
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Thanks Robert!
I don’t know if I am young enough to claim ‘youthful ignorance’ as a defence any more though
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do you not see what he says about the people here…
when he is over at kiwiblog..?
that is the talking out of both sides of his mouth …
..that tends to kinda grate with me…
..apart from anything else…
..which one is the real shunda..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phil! I am usually here! I hardly ever comment over there any more and when I do, 9 times out of 10 I am going against the grain. Did you read the one where Kris K (the good Christian) said I should be shot for treason because I wouldn’t accept his Islam scaremongering?
My world view is in a state of flux at the moment with a strong green influence beginning to manifest.
I will freely admit that I am still antagonistic and opinionated at times, but I am not going to change my views because someone “says I should” I am sick of that blind crap (years in church), if I am going to change my views I am going to thrash it out and develop genuine convictions, then I am going to act on them in a positive way.
Frog blog has been of immense personal value to me, some people may think that is sad or pathetic, but I don’t really care.
Sometimes we finds our treasure where we digs.
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Phil
I like having Shunda here, he talks about things in a rational way and doesn’t abuse the board at all. Nor did he say anything that warranted your attack on him, the one stemming from the “spam” comment. There was actual spam on the board and he noticed and brought it to Frog’s attention.
YOUR comment was the one that was out-of-line, and you really owe him an apology.
Assuming that Shunda is a him, otherwise you owe her an apology.
BJ
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Phil’s ‘Shunda is spam’ comment was funny though!
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@frog
I must admit I was a bit confused when I saw Shunda’s spam comment as I had not seen the original spam messages before they were deleted. Could you add an edit comment to reports like that of Shunda’s when you do delete spam so later viewers of the thread (like I was) can know what happened and don’t make the mistake of assuming that the spam comment was referring to the messages that are still visible?
Cheers,
Trevor.
[frog: Its rather unusual for a blatant spam comment to get past the filter, so shouldn't be too onerous a task for me to do that in the odd instance someone points one out.]
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@robertguyton 7:26 PM
I enjoy having Shunda here too Robert. It would be pretty boring in the comments thread if we all agree with each other all of the time. Shunda usually puts up reasoned arguments.
Trolling is where people repeatedly engage in personal attacks and inflamatory comments and make unsubstantiated or demonstrably false claims of fact to distract the thread from reasoned argument. Shunda doesn’t do that.
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Mind you, the only thing preventing Shunda from becoming a full-blown troll is Phil
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Robert’s changing his mind! (he must have read some more of my comments).
And for the record, Phil doesn’t owe me an apology at all, he used to cop a lot of crap from me at Kiwi blog and I feel bad enough about that.
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did i..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Yeah, I was a bit of a ‘Richard’ at times.
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ok..if you want to make amends for yr kiwiblog- ‘richardness’..
..how about if you tell as many people as possible…
…what a wicked/must-visit-every-day news-site whoar.co.nz is…
..and we’ll draw a discreet veil over your past ‘richardness’…
..and we shall never speak of it again…
…do we have a deal..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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That Phil – he’s a wiley fox!
I’m surprised you didn’t negotiate a switch to veganism from Shunda (whom I’m thinking is on the cusp).
Don’t sell yourself short Phil (the way Key did over the Hobbit/Warners ‘deal’ – mind you, that was ‘us’ he shafted there. He doubtless did well from it).
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Deal.
(whoar.co.nz)
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i can never speak of it again..robert…
..but re the vegan-thing..?
all waverers should go to http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phil!
(Comment #6)
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2047364082320718555&postID=6499727648139247352
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heh..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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