by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Mon, August 30th, 2010
Tags: general debate
General debate, August 30, 2010
Published: August 30, 2010
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Please use 
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
I know that I don’t want any more crap from the financial sector. I want the economy to change with a recipe that is more than just talking about high tech exports. I want government services to be respected. I don’t want the private sector to look after pensions and welfare. I want to see taxation changes so that the wealthy contribute their fair share. And I only have half an eye on what the press thinks, and then that’s to look at reasons to challenge them.
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Still thinking about that one!
One notices being shafted, doesn’t one?
Look at the durability of the rape thread.
Scuse me – gots to get on being a poor Kiwi
Still no water in Oz – too much in Pakistan
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Do we really want our Government to be the proud owner of a finance company? Nanny State gone mad! At least we can still buy incandescent light bulbs though.
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The consequences of failing to do it?
Will your average kiwi ever find out where all the money went?
Hobson’s choice – and we’re packing a gst hike on the economy – we’ll need clear weather and strong lenses to see the economy soon enough!
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The govt was effectively providing an insurance policy and SCF might just have to make a claim.
Of the sixty or so finance companies who went bust, quite a number had nothing wrong with them, except for the fact that panicked investors were pulling all their money out so they all started dropping like flies.
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toad says “Do we really want our Government to be the proud owner of a finance company? Nanny State gone mad!”
Russell says buy it…
http://www.nzx.com/home/4074604/SCF-says-no-certainty-restructure-will-be-successful
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Has the Green Party made a submission on Repeal of the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2010?
Report due out Sept 7.
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this was on Bernard Hickey’s site:
Obama could kill fossil fuels overnight with a nuclear dash for thorium
If Barack Obama were to marshal America’s vast scientific and strategic resources behind a new Manhattan Project, he might reasonably hope to reinvent the global energy landscape and sketch an end to our dependence on fossil fuels within three to five years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/7970619/Obama-could-kill-fossil-fuels-overnight-with-a-nuclear-dash-for-thorium.html
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BJ
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Russel also says that is the “best of a number of very bad alternatives”.
My comment was intended to highlight the irony of National, who strongly criticised the Labour Government buying Kiwirail and Air NZ and harped on about Nanny State and freeing up business from the State, looking as though they are about to buy a finance company.
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Who would be energy minister is Brownlee quit? any guesses
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Would somebody eleborate on this:
“Bevan has been a member of the Green Party and campaign manager for MP Metiria Turei for eight years and an advocate for the implementation of community development models founded on principles and values derived from the Spiritual (Io), Ancestral (whakapapa) and Natural (Papatuanuku)” ??
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BJ: What submissions? As I live in Chch I would promote the bicycle (of which I have 4).
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jh, it referred to Bevan Tipene Matua, Green candidate in Ikaroa-Rawhiti last election, who sadly drowned earlier this year.
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http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/08/26/have-your-say-on-the-draft-energy-strategy-or-lack-of-one/
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@treesoftomorrow 2:27 PM
Steven Joyce, the Minister of Everything, probably.
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And it’s always going to need more money put in than it will ever get out.
They had little choice with Air NZ – ever Key has said that. After the Singapore Air part ownership bid failed.
The govt guarantee scheme needed to be put in place otherwise finsnce companies and banks would have kept falling like dominoes.
So yes, I do see an irony, just like the irony of Cullen and Clarke being part of govt that sold then bought back the very same assetts.
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Complaints of booby traps in Ureweras (Tangata whenu blamed)
30/08/2010 15:00:02
The Department of Conservation say a Maori protest group has booby trapped roads in the Urewera National Park.
Complaints have been surfacing of 75mm nails sticking out of the Okahu Valley access road.
The group associated with Ngati Tawhaki, a hapu of Tuhoe, want a halt to 1080 poisoning in the area as it claims the land is theirs.
Area Manager John Sutton says they’re unsure how many traps have been laid but some mountain bikers have given an indication.
He says they had 10 punctures a month on a 9km stretch of road which is pretty high odds considering the width of a tyre.
John Sutton says police are the only ones who could carry out some proactive action.
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toad – do you think Steven Joyce kinda looks like a toad?
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Not like this one, ToT. Like Bufo marinus, the Queensland cane toad, perhaps. But as a supporter of the Maroons, I don’t really want to go there.
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he’d have made a credible villain in a superman movie…
he would have a lair/hi-tech-cave..
(that’s the thing with actors…they can play different roles…
sometimes in question-time he has a …
…”i can’t believe i’m saying this shit’ look/smirk(?)on his face…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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(gee…!…pot use recommended for schitzophrenics…
who knew…?..)
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/5-things-the-corporate-media-and-government-dont-want-you-to-know-about-marijuana/
“… News outlets continue to ignore research that belies government anti-pot propaganda.
Last September I penned an essay for Alternet entitled Five Things the Corporate Media Don’t Want You to Know About Cannabis.
In it I proposed, “[N]ews outlets continue to, at best, underreport the publication of scientific studies that undermine the federal government’s longstanding pot propaganda and, at worst, ignore them all together.”
Nearly one year later little has changed.
Here are five additional stories the mainstream media doesn’t want you to know about cannabis.
1. Long-term marijuana use is associated with lower risks of certain cancers, including head and neck cancer.
The moderate long-term use of marijuana is associated with a reduced risk of head and neck cancers …
…. according to the results of a population-based case-control study conducted by investigators at Rhode Island’s Brown University …
… and published in the journal Cancer Prevention Research.
Authors of the study reported, “After adjusting for potential confounders (including smoking and alcohol drinking) …
… 10 to 20 years of marijuana use was associated with a significantly reduced risk of head and neck squamous cell carcinoma” …
… compared to subjects who never used pot.
Researchers further reported that subjects who smoked marijuana and consumed alcohol and tobacco (two conclusive high risk factors for head and neck cancers) …
… also experienced a reduced cancer risk compared to non-cannabis users.
“[W]e observed that marijuana use modified the interaction between alcohol and cigarette smoking …
… resulting in a decreased (cancer) risk among moderate smokers and light drinkers …
… and attenuated risk among the heaviest smokers and drinkers.
“Our study suggests that moderate marijuana use is associated with reduced risk of head and neck squamous cell carcinoma,” investigators concluded.
Similarly, a 2006 UCLA study of more than 2,200 subjects reported that marijuana smoking was not positively associated with cancers of the lung or upper aerodigestive tract –
- even among individuals who reported smoking more than 22,000 joints during their lifetime.
Researchers further noted that among some users of the drug … cannabis smoking appeared to have a cancer preventive effect.
Nevertheless, mainstream U.S. media outlets exhibited little-to-no interest in reporting on the Brown University findings …
… which failed to even garner a mention locally in the Providence Journal.
One month following the study’s publication, international media wire service Reuters did devote some half-hearted coverage …
… which it published under the overtly skeptical headline “Could smoking pot cut risk of head, neck cancer?”…” (cont..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phil,
Provide a link.
Based on the state of the research I’ve seen, recommending pot for such people would be criminal.
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Found link, must follow the chain.
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Just read the article your citation relies on (Assessing the impact of cannabis use on trends in diagnosed schizophrenia in the United Kingdom from 1996 to 2005.). It does not in any way support the claims your citation makes. In fact it acknowledges the relationship and then investigates a specific prediction which does not even adhere to theory. That is, it predicted that psychosis in the population would increase with increases in weed consumption. This does not adhere to theory as it is known that it is only of risk to people with a diathesis and that the diathesis also makes you more likely to smoke it, thus increase in rates will make little difference. To investigate the hypothesis they use data from clinics which they in no way control and they just assume that the 2.3 percent of the population they are using will represent the groups using the weed (likely false). They also make no account of the way diagnostic criteria has changed over time.
The second study cited (Attraction to cannabis among men with schizophrenia: a phenomenological study.) is a phenomenological study which says little more than ‘people with schizophrenia are stressed, cannabis helps them to relax’. Given the state of knowledge in the field it would be far more advisable to give them the present prescription drugs.
The third study (Cannabis use disorders in schizophrenia: effects on cognition and symptoms.) does not conclude that cannabis use makes your cognition better in schizophrenia but that those with co-morbid cannabis abuse represent a different subgroup which generally has higher function than those without this co-morbidity. In fact, while they say there is not enough evidence to be sure, they theorise that the cannabis abuse exists because they are more competent and thus more able to obtain such substances; a conclusion consistent with the literature and the research discussed above.
So, in summary, not even your citations very selective pickings of the literature support his pre-detirmined conclusions. One would almost think that he was trying to make the data fit the theory rather than visa versa.
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Probably have to score that one for Sap.
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aah..sap !…
did you train at the owen mcshane school for faux-science-dissembling..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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easily flattered/dazzled…are you valis…?
someone just has to spout some psycho-babble at you..
(‘co-morbid’..?..anyone..?..)
..and you’re theirs…
…eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Sure phil. Looking forward to being dazzled when you address Sap’s points too.
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How committed are the Green’s to democracy?:
-
“The Review document clearly stated that “The Ministry of Justice will publicly release your submission, a summary of submissions and a list of names of submitters on this website after the consultation process has finished”. Yet here we are, nearly four months after submissions closed, and no submissions have been published. When asked last week when we could expect them to be published, the Attorney General’s office replied: “No decision has yet been made about when the submissions relating to the review of the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004 will be made public. It will be some time after the new Bill has been introduced to the House of Representatives”. So here we have censorship of the worst kind: 1500 submissions, many of which will have raised serious concerns about the repeal of Crown ownership, being withheld from public view – no doubt to further stifle public debate.
http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly244.htm
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(here is the piece on cannabis/schitzophrenia…
readers can judge for themselves…)
”
4. Marijuana may be helpful, not harmful, to people with schizophrenia.
For years now the mainstream media has run rampant with reports that smoking cannabis causes or exacerbates mental illness, particularly schizophrenia.
Yet several overlooked studies published earlier this year indicate that pot may actually be helpful to some patients with the disease.
For example, in May a team of researchers writing in the Canadian Journal of Nursing Research reported male schizophrenic subjects consumed marijuana “as a means of satisfying the schizophrenia-related need for relaxation, sense of self-worth, and distraction.”
(Survey data published in 2008 in the International Journal of Mental Health Nursing also reported that many schizophrenic patients obtain relief from cannabis …
… finding that subjects consumed cannabis to reduce anxiety, mitigate memories of childhood trauma, enhance cognition, and “improve their mental state.”)
A separate assessment of schizophrenic patients published in June in the journal Schizophrenia Research found that subjects with a history of cannabis use demonstrate higher levels of cognitive performance compared to patients who had never used the drug.
Investigators at the Feinstein Institute for Medical Research, the Zucker Hillside Hospital in New York, the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, and Princeton University compared the neurocognitive skills of 175 schizophrenics with a history of cannabis use with 280 subjects with no history of illegal drug use.
Researchers reported that cannabis users demonstrated “significantly better performance” compared to nonusers on measures of processing speed, verbal fluency, verbal learning, and memory. Marijuana use was also associated with better over all GAF (Global Assessment Functioning) scores.
Authors concluded: “The results of the present analysis suggest that (cannabis use) in patients with SZ (schizophrenia) is associated with better performance on measures of processing speed and verbal skills.
These data are consistent with prior reports indicating that SZ patients with a history of (cannabis use) have less severe cognitive deficits than SZ patients without comorbid (cannabis use). …
…The present findings also suggest that cannabis use in patients with SZ may not differentially affect the severity of illness as measured by clinical symptomatology.”
A second study published in 2010 by this same research team also questioned the media’s often repeated claim that pot use is a root cause of the illness …
… finding that cannabis use is not independently associated with the onset of psychosis in first-episode schizophrenia patients.
The researchers concluded: “Although cannabis use precedes the onset of illness in most patients, there was no significant association between onset of illness and (cannabis use) that was not accounted for by demographic and clinical variables. …
…Previous studies implicating cannabis use disorders in schizophrenia may need to more comprehensively assess the relationship between cannabis use disorders and schizophrenia.”
Other than this single story by Time Magazine’s Maia Szalavitz, no other media outlets made mention of any of the above studies, and most continue to promote the federal government’s specious allegation that pot use causes depression, schizophrenia, and suicide…”
(and of course…the killer-stat on this topic is that the explosion of cannabis use in the sixties/seventies..
..did not..i repeat..did not..see a corresponding rise in schitzophrenia…
..(as you would maybe expect..?..if you accepted the ’cause’-arguments…?)
..but no…schitzophrenics as a component of society…
..have stayed roughly the same…
but of course..especially in this blinkers-themed/driven argument..
people will believe what they want to believe..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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that cannabis use is described as a ‘comorbid’-condition..(!)
..couldn’t be a clearer example of that pre-judging/bias/blinkers..
btw….gotta cat…?…whoar..!
http://whoar.co.nz/2008/cats-can-give-children-schitzophrenia/
“..Recent surveys point to a connection between a microbial cat disease and human schizophrenia.
The microbe is called toxoplasma or “toxo” for short.
Most cats carry the bug but it is a silent infection with them, causing them no harm.
Cats spread the microbe when they deposit their urine or droppings in their litter box, in your garden or in the children’s sandpit, though you can pick it up by merely handling the cat.
Farm animals and birds also carry toxo.
Half the deer in New Zealand carry the infection and you can catch it by eating undercooked meat.
Most of us become infected with toxo at some stage in our lives with little or no effect but it’s a different matter for foetuses.
If a pregnant woman becomes infected, the microbe sometimes makes its way into the brain of the early growing foetus.
A recent survey showed that about 2 per cent of pregnant Auckland women had been infected with toxo.
The bug wreaks havoc with brain development but the results don’t show up in babies.
Not till kids reach teenage years do problems develop – behavioural problems, learning disabilities, mood swings, mental impairment or schizophrenia.
The connection between toxo and schizophrenia has long been suspected because so many schizophrenics recall their family having a cat when they were babies.
Several recent surveys have revealed stronger connections.
A study of 1.2 million Swedes showed that early foetal infections increased psychoses and schizophrenia in teenagers by 50 per cent..”
there ya go…!
worry about something ‘real’…
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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No, I just have four years straight of having critical reading and analysis pounded in to me.
You do not know what co-morbid means? That is a bit worrying for someone with a politics masters, eh?
So, to support the claims by your citation you are citing another piece of his work (it is either the same citation or his earlier article which he relies on in the one you cite). That is so intelligent and totally valid! Thats the very article I just took apart!
It is medical nomenclature. It does not indicate bias, just that it is adhering to the standards of a published, peer-reviewed, journal article. The actual terminology, in this instance, is decided by the APA and applies to all drugs with mind altering effects.
I do not have a cat, I can’t stand them.
But, yes. This is a well known phenomenon. It is hardly being repressed in favor of a cannabis causality; it is merely an alternate route which alters the way the brain makes connections, not unlike weed. The same thing can be observed with the common cold.
So, yeah. Give it another go. Saying that person X is right because the same person X says he is right is no more valid than the bible. Likewise, saying “but Y also causes Z” does not negate that X could cause Z as well.
P.S. the article you provide is not enough for them to “judge for themselves” as it is simply his own claims about what was found. Give them a link so that they can follow the link and then follow the in-text links to the article abstracts. The abstracts alone should be enough to see he is wrong, though I actually read the entire articles.
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enjoyable reading…
“Today the tyrant rules not by club or fist, but, disguised as a market
researcher, he shepherds his flocks in the ways of utility and comfort.”
Marshall McLuhan – (1911-1980)
Can you list the bonuses of democracy?
jh?
Labels are generally misleading.
You’ll note the US Military is in denial about huge problems with their soldiers from Iraq?
Suicide in paradise, and mass graves across the Border?
The only 50/50 solution I’ve heard is that they legalize the drugs.
Not like people should die for chemical preferences,
nor for ‘running’ from Police
or parking tickets, and all the normal performances of robbery,
nor by some psycho got a gun – but
Most people seem to die from carefull planning
gonna get High?(rotfl)
Goin’ to meet Mr Low too – sing the Blues
Go blind
But thc is considered less harmfull (psychotropically) than caffeine
If only they didn’t smoke it!
Got a galaxy of healthy uses – that might alter consumerism, for an unfathomly expensive moment
I will have a whole new hot biscuit chain – the day after we get a Green Prime Minister.
Yet good old alcohol is ritualistic and reverent – hell; our coppers ‘need’ it….
Tell me Nick and Judy got a fridge full of food, go on….
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When people think they have a say you need fewer guns and they are more willing to work as slave labour.
Vaporisation is the way to go. A little less impromptu, but saves your lungs.
As to the biscuits, had an associate whom used to like those. His mother found them in the back of the cupboard, thought they were stale and gave them to the chickens; good times. Problem with those is the delayed onset, easy to take more than you intend.
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How committed are the Green’s to democracy?: [post]
….
A clear concise answer arrives:
ZsssssssZzzzzzzzzzzssssssssss!
.
= only when the issue matters to us (or makes us look good)!
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“No decision has yet been made about when the submissions relating to the review of the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004 will be made public. It will be some time after the new Bill has been introduced to the House of Representatives”.
.
Funny as we are always being told we need to have this “dialogue”, unfortunately the dialogue goes to the attorney generals office and stays “within these walls” hmmmm???
Seems we only need a dialogue if things aren’t going youre way?
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Law lecturer and green(ie) David Round of Canterbury University:
“This new customary title is going to be granted if it can be established according to ‘Maori tikanga’. Now this tikanga is known to Maori alone. They have it ~ or say they have it. They do not give us any details. If they do not have it, they invent it. We will never know. The introduction of tikanga alone is the handing-over of a blank cheque. You can bet your bottom dollar that a surprising amount of the coastline will be considered by Maori ‘to be ours now, really. I mean, we let people go there, and we don’t stop them or say anything to them, but we always feel, you know, its our beach, that’s just our tikanga’ ~ and he’ll keep a straight face, and the whole thing will be in the bag. In response to questions, both the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General are already refusing to say categorically that even popular Auckland beaches (certainly not ones ‘exclusively occupied’ by Maori) will not have customary title awarded over them.”
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest208.htm
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the link is in the 9.14 am comment..
(you never answered the owen-mcshane-question…there..sap…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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How committed are the Green’s to democracy?: [post]
….
A clear concise answer arrives:
ZsssssssZzzzzzzzzzzssssssssss!
.
= only when the issue matters to us (or makes us look good)!
As usual, it’s all been discussed before, so actually just can’t be bothered with someone who only asks the question for their own pedantic purpose and not because they want to hear the answer (again).
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Yes, the link can be found at the bottom of your post on your blog once they follow the link to your blog once they make the connection, that you did not declare in the slightest, that what you are quoting is your citation for your 9:14 comment and one of the articles I rebuffed. It would have been easier to find the article by putting it into Google; just not good enough.
As to the Owen McShane question:
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Funny as we are always being told we need to have this “dialogue”, unfortunately the dialogue goes to the attorney generals office and stays “within these walls” hmmmm???
Seems we only need a dialogue if things aren’t going youre way?
It’s none of our doing. You remember who’s in govt, right?
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what’s the bet those sth island farmers/w.h.y…
..who have been fully paid out/cashed-up….
..will still whinge…?
(what about..?..oh..!..they’ll find something…)
and it’s not very often i agree with english…
but his call out to his constituents to show a little thanks/gratitude to the rest of new zealand…
..for paying the bill….
…shouldn’t go unheard…
and really…j.a.f.a-visitors should be greeted by anyone/anywhere sth of christchurch with palms/cheering crowds..
..from here on in…
(has there ever been a bigger provincial-subsidy…?)
and as for their standard moan of how they ‘subsidise’ the rest of us…(esp. jafas…)
they can just shut the f. up now…
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Was just reading a newsletter. I saw this, thought it was relevant to the topic at hand:
Obviously it does not carry that much weight given its methods, but it is a NZ population and is consistent with the evidence thus far.
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how is that about whinging sth island farmers…?
(and hey..!..you want a local-study..?
http://whoar.co.nz/2007/would-you-like-some-heart-disease-diabetes-and-schizophrenia-with-that-milk/
there ya go..!
try the great new zealand schitzophrenia/milk-connection cover-up..!
(it all happened at auckland university…didn’tyaknow..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Hey, Jh, do you have opinions of your own? What’s with the constant cutting and pasting of David Round’s racist mumblings?
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need more..?
y’know how pot is sooo much stronger/more powerful now..?
do you believe that big fat lie too..?
http://whoar.co.nz/2007/the-new-batch-of-lies-that-are-told-about-cannabisthe-current-big-one-being-trotted-outis-how-cannabis-is-now-20-25-times-stronger-than-it-used-to-be/
and that is just a total crock..!
as anyone who has smoked cannabis over the years will confirrm..
there has always been ‘really good’ dope..
this is no new/modern phenomenom..
here..that new demonising-myth is laid to rest..
oh..!..the ’causes schitzophrenia’ myth is also laid to rest..
“..In a week in which Gordon Brown signalled a toughening of the law on cannabis and Labour MPs queued up to confess to smoking dope in their youth – a dozen cabinet ministers at the last count – there has been a widespread assumption bandied about that the country is in the grip of an epidemic of cannabis-induced psychosis.
But there is no evidence that cannabis poses a greater threat to health today than it did 30 years ago, and reports that stronger forms of the drug, called skunk, have 25 times the potency are wildly exaggerated.
The joint, symbol of peace and love in the 1960s, has become a totem of degenerate Britain – increasingly linked with mental breakdown and axe-wielding maniacs.
The Prime Minister, who has ordered the second review of the classification of cannabis in two years..
..is said by insiders to want to reverse the decision of the former home secretary, David Blunkett, who downgraded the drug from class B to class C in 2004.
The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which examined the issue 18 months ago, will be asked to do so again.
It concluded in its report in December 2005 that the strength of cannabis resin (hash) had changed little over 30 years and was about 5 per cent tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).
Skunk, it found was 10 to 15 per cent THC – two to three times as strong..not 25 times.
Professor Leslie Iversen, a pharmacologist at Oxford University, said the widespread belief that skunk was 20 to 30 times as powerful was “simply not true”.
The biggest change over recent decades has been in the strength of indoor-cultivated herbal cannabis, but even this has only doubled to 12 to 14 per cent THC.
Although exceptionally strong skunk can be found on the market in Britain..it always has been available..
..according to reports from the UN Drug Control Programme.
On the question of psychosis, the advisory council was clear.
Cannabis use may worsen the symptoms of schizophrenia..and lead to a relapse in some patients.
But on causation, it said: “The evidence suggests, at worst, that using cannabis increases the lifetime risk of developing schizophrenia by 1 per cent.”
It added that more than three million people were estimated to have used cannabis in the previous year..
..but “very few will ever develop this distressing and disabling condition..”.
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“The Government today announced it will pay $1.6 billion to cover cash owed to depositors and stockholders by South Canterbury Finance”
“Then Paula tells the Iwi leaders that government doesn’t have the money to help with basic services like finding whanau to care for kids at risk so “will you put your hands in your pockets… Because the Government doesn’t have all the money for it right now quite frankly.” ”
Go figure.
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Valis Says:
“As usual, it’s all been discussed before, so actually just can’t be bothered with someone who only asks the question for their own pedantic purpose and not because they want to hear the answer (again).”
…
in this case I want to know if the Greens have made a submission re the Foreshore and Seabed Repeal Act 2010? If so do you have it online?
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Is it that you don’t know where our website is, or that you don’t know how to use the search function?
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Sam Buchanan Says:
Hey, Jh, do you have opinions of your own? What’s with the constant cutting and pasting of David Round’s racist mumblings?
…….
I prefer someone elses when it is better than mine eg
.
“In times to come we shall call down curses on the smug spineless short-sighted imbeciles and their Greek chorus of self-righteous well-off holier-than-thou racial masochists for the blight they brought upon the land. ”
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest208.htm
I also like Man of The People Chris Trotter:
Such as:
“A willingness on the part of Pakeha leftists to be guided by the Maori nationalist advocates of tino rangatiratanga had by the mid-1980s become the litmus test of authentic revolutionary praxis. As proof of their commitment to the cause of the tangata whenua individuals and institutions were required to elevate Te Tiriti o Waitangi to the status of holy writ. In these matters, the Greens proved to be no exception.”
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/05/taking-greens-seriously.html
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There is a limit to how much I am willing to search out and read references you post.
I have read the citation behind your article; it makes no citations and four attributions (of which one was about potency of the product, thus will not be mentioned).
One of the attributions says nothing for his case:
Another says nothing for his position (and I would note that while his first point is technically true, all of the evidence is pointing that way; a longitudinal study would be require as a bare minimum to assess causality):
And the big one, This ignores the diathesis mentioned in the first attribution and I am unable to find the quote source anywhere on Google or Google Scholar, its only existence being in ten entries of which the majority are his article and the others almost exact copies of the paragraph. This, while not definitive evidence the quote was made up, casts substantial suspicion on it unless for some reason this counsel only does paper or audio releases and, for some reason, no one else has picked up that quote (unlikely even then).
I would add that I have looked in to that particular advisory counsel recommendation and, while I can not find it, the other articles referencing it state that it reported weed only made a small contribution to the probability of developing it.
That is more than enough of my time spent on this, this is starting to distract me from far more important matters.
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This one’s for You Greeens:
Beneath Bruckner’s eloquence is a serious message: we remain prisoners of a white guilt whose victim is its supposed beneficiary. Our guilt, he writes, is actually a means for us to retain our superiority over the non-white world, our masochism a form of sadism. After all, if everything is the fault of the west then the power to change the world lies squarely in the hands of westerners.
This belief demeans Frantz Fanon’s ‘wretched of the earth’—the non-western poor who we are supposed to redeem. Worse than this, it excuses the barbarism of tinpot dictators from Mao to Mugabe, who are considered irresponsible children, their crimes the result of colonialism, racism or capitalist exploitation. In upholding one moral code for the west (and Israel) and another for the rest, we retard human progress. Surely the column inches devoted to Israel’s atrocities, which Bruckner doesn’t gloss, should be overshadowed by the more significant carnage of Darfur. Yet ‘Nazi’ Israel excites leftist ideologues like Gilles Deleuze, while the more serious war crimes of Congo et al do not.
The left avoids these contradictions through relativism. Bruckner, however, staunchly defends Enlightenment liberalism. He has no truck with those who blame the west for jihadism—notably the postmodernist stalwart Jean Baudrillard, who reacted in ‘pornographic jubilation’ to the fall of the twin towers. Moreover, leftist radicals remain cloaked in a respectability which we would never accord the far right, and Bruckner seeks to rip through this bogus status.
Take multiculturalism, which for Bruckner ‘imprisons’ minorities in separate boxes outside the mainstream. He rightly fulminates against the creed of identity politics that originated on the left and took the western policy elite by storm in the 1970s and 1980s.
http://blogs.monografias.com/sistema-limbico-neurociencias/2010/08/28/racial-guilt-or-implacable-belated-masochism-book/
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This one’s for Mr Toad-Racism:
“Numerous studies have demonstrated that people tend to prefer their own ethnic group above others. An international poll in 2007 showed that 90 percent of the inhabitants in Egypt, Indonesia and India believed that each country should guard their innate culture and lifestyle. Immigration concerned people in 44 out of the 47 countries.
Guarding your identity is thus a universal human trait, not a white trait. In fact, it is less pronounced among whites today than among anybody else. Only whites cling onto the idea of universalism, everybody else sticks with their own ethnic group. In white majority Western nations it has become a state-sponsored ideology to “celebrate diversity,” despite the fact that all available evidence indicates that more diversity leads to more conflict.
Ayman al-ZawahriIn May 2007, Osama bin Laden’s deputy terrorist leader Ayman al-Zawahri stated that “Al-Qaida is not merely for the benefit of Muslims. That’s why I want blacks in America, people of color, American Indians, Hispanics, and all the weak and oppressed in North and South America, in Africa and Asia, and all over the world.”
Read that statement closely. This Jihadist organization is calling for a global war against whites. Not Christians or Jews. Whites. I have been told all of my life that skin color is irrelevant, but this balancing act gets a lot more difficult when somebody declares war against you because of your race.”
http://www.globalpolitician.com/23601-race-multiculturalism
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Sap; that’s wonderfull ; if only we had a reliable mechanism
To separate truth from fiction
The Big Lie is a self-confirming edict.
I’m about to crack gossip – with a spotlight
On the truth
Who is blinking, lying
Well the undeniable truth will surface
Nothing to hide here
Provincial NZ is beautifull
In that they’ll suck on rumours
My Lawyers would lunch with mirth
Except in NZ, gossip is everything.
Watch those ‘about to inherit’
They’ll sign your ass away
hope you’ll neatly die
Me ;- I sent a note to the Coroner
Laugh!
Me not him.
I would enjoy a little honesty
even from the other side
Of the lawn.
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yoo hoo..!..owen mcshane/climate-change-deniers..!
one of your ‘leaders’…has seen the (ever-increasing) ‘light’….!
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/the-worlds-most-high-profile-climate-change-sceptic-is-to-declare-that-global-warming-is-undoubtedly-one-of-the-chief-concerns-facing-the-world-today-and-a-challenge-humanity-must-confront-in-an-appar/
“…Bjørn Lomborg, the self-styled “sceptical environmentalist” once compared to Adolf Hitler by the UN’s climate chief …
… is famous for attacking climate scientists, campaigners, the media and others for exaggerating the rate of global warming …
… and its effects on humans …
… and the costly waste of policies to stop the problem.
But in a new book to be published next month, Lomborg will call for tens of billions of dollars a year to be invested in tackling climate change.
“Investing $100bn annually would mean that we could essentially resolve the climate change problem by the end of this century,” the book concludes.
Examining eight methods to reduce or stop global warming, Lomborg and his fellow economists recommend pouring money into researching and developing clean energy sources such as wind, wave, solar and nuclear power …
… and more work on climate engineering ideas such as “cloud whitening” … to reflect the sun’s heat back into the outer atmosphere.
In a Guardian interview, he said he would finance investment through a tax on carbon emissions that would also raise $50bn to mitigate the effect of climate change …
… for example by building better sea defences … and $100bn for global healthcare.
His declaration about the importance of action on climate change comes at a crucial point in the debate …
… with international efforts to agree a global deal on emissions …
… stalled amid a resurgence in scepticism caused by rows over the reliability of the scientific evidence for global warming…”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I found this statement but it is vague
16 Jun 2010
Kia ora
Ownership of the foreshore and seabed is back under the media spotlight, with the National and Maori parties reaching a deal to repeal the law. Sadly, this new deal will simply replace Labour’s confiscation with a new confiscation, as Maori rights are put into ‘public space’.
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What rights? What space (which beaches ..Piha?)
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It’s disappointing that John Key has put nothing in the proposal to stop owners of private title restricting access to or selling the foreshore into foreign ownership.
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That is simply a diversion/ separate issue
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We’d make sure our beaches could never be sold off to overseas owners, and uphold the right of Maori to go to court to have customary title tested. Public access would be guaranteed.
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“Green Maori Affairs spokesperson, Metiria Turei said today that the reduction of the term ‘customary title’ into ‘customary interests’ in the Government’s consultation paper and Government prescription of what constitutes customary activity is an abrogation of the Treaty.[refering to the Maori version Article Two]
http://www.indymedia.org.nz/article/66614/foreshore-and-seabed-protecting-public-a?page=1
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We think looking after our beautiful beaches has to be part of the solution, so we’d also protect them from pollution and development.
……………………………………………………………………..
““Where is the good faith relationship?” Metiria asked. “This proposal reduces Maori input into decision making by stripping them of their kaitiakitanga role as stewards of our environment.
Metiria welcomed the Government’s decision not to legislate for crown ownership, but she is concerned that the proposal comes perilously close to a confiscation of customary rights.
“The Greens support responsible access to the foreshore, which is compatible with Customary Ownership governed by tikanga Maori and the concept of public domain.
“The clearest example is Lake Taupo, where ownership of the lake bed rests with Maori but everyone enjoys recreational access.”
http://www.indymedia.org.nz/article/66614/foreshore-and-seabed-protecting-public-a?page=1
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Regards,
Metiria Turei
http://www.greens.org.nz/newsletters/greenweek/greenweek-beaches-air-and-our-penchant-peace
Do many people know the “Green” Party which is down sounding off about water and “dirty dairying” sees Maori as having (inherited) primary conservationist authority?
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A SCIENTIST wanting to perform an autopsy on a dead orca was prevented from doing so by Ngati Awa elders.
http://www.whakatanebeacon.co.nz/cms/news/2010/06/art10007255.php
Apparently the orca is a relation. Meteria might like to comment. She could debate with richard dawkins?
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Don’t know how to use the search function then.
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Don’t know how to use the search function then.
…..
Yes but I can’t find what I want.
Of course someone from the Green Party could help me find the Greens submission to the 2010 Foreshore and Seabed Review Bill.
Thanks.
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ah; the joy of the chickens….
better than the silence of the lambs for sure.
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Mark Says:
“Ah fill the cup.
What boots it to repeat.”
….
Good stuff Mark!
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colour me thick..!
but i give mark a big ‘o’ for obtuse…
(could you explain that..mark…y’know..for challenged people like me..?
ta..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Solar activity, cold UK winters and Pakistan rain.
I had a sneak preview about the debate and the theories surrounding these events and passed it on. My summary was not well received.
However, the theories are starting to make it into peer reviewed journals and the Press.
One of you correctly observed that the general solar activity was low at present and that this meant the claimed connection (by one group) between solar flares and the rain (the cloud chamber effect) was spurious. And it may well be. The flares were “solar weather” while the sunspot activity is “solar climate”. We will probably have to wait a long time for a similar combination of events to test the theory again.
However, low sun spot activity does appear to be driving the “blocking” which is causing such cold winter in the UK. For a brief report on this aspect of the debate go to:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100415080848.htm
The world is a complex place.
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interesting clip on capitalism: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article26184.htm
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jh; – where did you find that quote
Hall of Memories?
None-the-less, it’s nice to have a write wing nutter
On the job
Any new “News”?
Same old in new wrapping looks like…
How many more are lined up behind Honest Alan Hubbard one wonders.
And your best guess is?
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“we remain prisoners of a white guilt whose victim is its supposed beneficiary”
Who’s this “we” – I don’t feel any ‘white guilt’.
“Only whites cling onto the idea of universalism, everybody else sticks with their own ethnic group.”
jh posting in support of Hone Harawira? The mind boggles!
“Yet ‘Nazi’ Israel excites leftist ideologues like Gilles Deleuze, while the more serious war crimes of Congo et al do not…
The left avoids these contradictions through relativism. Jean Baudrillard, who reacted in ‘pornographic jubilation’ to the fall of the twin towers. Moreover, leftist radicals remain cloaked in a respectability which we would never accord the far right, and …blah blah blah”
What a load of old cobblers. Sure ‘The left’ is easy to attack if you choose a couple of nutso post-modernist academics as its representatives. As for leftist radicals remaining respectable, while the far right don’t, also garbage. Look at all the raving free-marketeers in academia, government and the media, all considered respectable.
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Phil; you reject the kiwi notion that ‘you are who we say you are’
I find your non-conformist view endlessly amusing.
Feel I might find a spot for you an the
“Paid Talkers” List.
After all, most Kiwi’s stink outside ‘the box’
eh?……eh?…..
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Purposely obtuse Phil; it’s all about sizing a reaction….
I may be your biggest Fan
Keep on!
regards
Mark.
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All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
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“…Feel I might find a spot for you an the
“Paid Talkers” List…”
i cd do that…
‘paid’ to bang on..?…
bliss…!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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bang on my son…we don’t get enough of that
down heah in the sultry
Lonely isles
Bang on – bang forth or fifth
Too much cold – not enough banging
I’m employing the Mob to do my lawns
Like a paradise – if you can think it so.
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“It’s disappointing that John Key has put nothing in the proposal to stop owners of private title restricting access to or selling the foreshore into foreign ownership.”
Exactly. Do it to every one then we can all retain the foreshore and seabed as commons.
NACT are fine with the Maori party/aristocracy claiming veto/ ownership rights because they know they can then buy Maori “elite” off to put fish farms and mines anywhere they like.
jh is right in that this needs a lot more thought and discussion.
If Maori agree that putting all privately owned foreshore and seabed into “commons” Crown ownership/public ownership is acceptable then this may be an answer.
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“If Maori agree that putting all privately owned foreshore and seabed into “commons” Crown ownership/public ownership is acceptable then this may be an answer.”
With certain conditions I can see Maori agreeing to that – but there’s no way on earth all the other private owners of foreshore are going to agree – and no way on earth that NACT are going to nationalise their land.
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jh posted: “Ayman al-ZawahriIn May 2007, Osama bin Laden’s deputy terrorist leader Ayman al-Zawahri stated that “Al-Qaida is not merely for the benefit of Muslims. That’s why I want blacks in America, people of color, American Indians, Hispanics, and all the weak and oppressed in North and South America, in Africa and Asia, and all over the world.”
Read that statement closely. This Jihadist organization is calling for a global war against whites. Not Christians or Jews. Whites”
I read it closely and it looks like this organization is appealling for support from “all the weak and oppressed… all over the world”, and to be “not merely for the benefit of muslims” i.e. no distinction between white and black muslims, nor between white and black oppressed. Where is the racial element in this? It sounds like a call for class war rather than the racial war that jh, for some reason, is inferring. It would be hard to argue that, globally, the weak and oppressed are not still predominantly people of colour. Bizarrely enough, this bunch of nutters seems to appreciate a simple fact that jh hasn’t cottoned on to.
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Fits jh perfectly.
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I am puzzled.
I post a report of a scientific paper about what is causing cold winters in the UK and the connection between low solar activity and the “blocking” of the jet stream.
This is simply a paper about particular weather and climate factors and takes no particular stand on AGW pro or against.
Yet three people evidently do not “like” this post.
What do they not like?
Saying one likes or dislikes a scientific paper is a strange response. What does it mean?
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“..What does it mean?..”
um..!..cd it possibly be something to do with yr long career as a climate-change denier…?
d’yareckon…?
y’know…..!..one of those responsible for the delays in doing what needs to be done/stopped…?
could that have something to do with it..?
d’yareckon..?
and maybe a sign of a general consensus that it might be just about time for you to shut the f… up…?
no matter what the subject…?
d’yareckon…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Planet philu….”No need to actually see if the evidence stands up to scutiny…..charge ahead!!!!!!!
AGW is dying a well deserved death as the overblown scare story sold to the gullible in exchange for political power and money that it is….good riddance
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It’s funny how you can say this when the evidence just keeps getting stronger. Life in the bubble, I guess. You know your libertarianism has no answer for such a threat, so denying it’s existence is your only choice.
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It’s funny how you can say this when the evidence just keeps getting stronger. Life in the bubble, I guess. You know your libertarianism has no answer for such a threat, so denying it’s existence is your only choice.
Oh…Evidence such as what exactly? Kilamanjaro melting?…no thats debunked,Himalayan glaciers melting by 2035?…no thats gone too.Rising sea levels causing migration by pacific islanders to NZ?no…gee thats dust also.Your so called evidence has a habit of failing to remain upright against reality and the passage of time.
Now the real,on paper and confirmed evidence that the solar cycle is appearing to mirror climate activity lock step won’t fly with you huh?
If there WAS a real problem Libertarianism does have a solution…let the free market actually work and the price of resources rise and fall as they will and people will adjust themselves and their behaviours accordingly without any need of big socialism getting involved.After all….socialism was a failure at 15 degrees…why would it work a t 17?
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libertarians….the ‘new-luddites’…
(they are so quaint..wot with their naieve ‘beliefs’ in ‘market-forces’..and all that…
clinging to the tattered remnants of their failed ideology…
refusing to believe the realities of today/the future..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I keep forgetting it’s all lies. Just a product of the world wide socialist scientist conspiracy (the SSC to insiders – they have a special handshake too). But given how hard it is for any global community to mostly agree on anything, you’d have to say they’ve done extremely well to hoodwink every govt on Earth, though.
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