by frog
Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Tue, August 17th, 2010
Tags: general debate
General debate, August 17, 2010
Published: August 17, 2010
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Please use 
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
(more)
http://robertguyton.blogspot.com/2010/08/natural-message-to-good-people-of-new.html
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To some extent the green party is a product of the media. The media need a green voice to simplify issues. You won’t here “Green leader Meteria Turei said decolonisation of Aotearoa was a priority, today on the green Party Blog, or “David Clendon of the Green Party is angered that Gerry Brownlee is ignoring local Iwi rights to oil out side the 12 mile limit” or “Green MP Catherine Delahunty described our system of one man one vote as a limited concept of conservative Pakeha” in Parliament today or Keith locke today told a group supporting the arrestees in the anti terror raids that he would feel happier in any of their company than many MP’s in Parliament”….etc.
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Interesting article on an upsurge of anti-colonial feeling and protest on Easter Island/Rapanui. Locals suggesting they’d like to split from Chile and re-join Polynesia.
http://intercontinentalcry.org/reclaiming-land-and-dignity-on-easter-island/
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4025675/Cannabis-tactics-wrong-says-former-top-cop
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http://static.radionz.net.nz/assets/audio_item/0005/2378696/mnr-20100817-0854-Court_case_continues_over_marketing_of_Shell_fuel-m048.asx
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/20100817#audio_2378696
becomes an admission of guilt, instead of a defence.
I’m not holding my breath.
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Would anyone like a lamington?
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“becomes an admission of guilt, instead of a defence.”
Totally.
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http://whoar.co.nz/2010/roy-rolledgimlet-eyed-woman-replaced-by-gimlet-eyed-man/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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This is personal!
http://robertguyton.blogspot.com/2010/08/act-dumps-my-wifes-cousin-dirty-dogs.html
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Great article in The Press by Chris Trotter today.
[frog: A link would have been helpful, jh.]
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Interesting article on an upsurge of anti-colonial feeling and protest on Easter Island/Rapanui. Locals suggesting they’d like to split from Chile and re-join Polynesia.
http://intercontinentalcry.org/reclaiming-land-and-dignity-on-easter-island/
these things never turn out to be brown and white:
“…. Alberto Hotus, the octogenarian head of the island’s elders’ council, said the territory could not survive without mainland support.
“This island would be a disaster,” he told the BBC. “I remember when there was nothing more than muddy trails here. Thanks to the Chilean government it is different now, we owe them everything we have.”
Ethnically the islanders were Polynesian and American, he said. “Chile is part of the American continent and we are part of Chile.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/13/easter-island-indigenous-chile
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what exactly was ‘great’ about it..?..jh…?
(i’d link it…but you’ve probably got paint to watch dry…or something/anything..more interesting/enlightening to do..
..eh…?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Cath Delahunty was great on Close Up, was also impressed with Thames Coro mayor. Surprised to hear that NZ govt(Chris carter) had opportunity to purchase this valuable land. I was interested to know what was the business case for not progressing with the purchase. I am not sure of the time this opportunity presented itself. But during the lab years the govt did have surplus funds. We are spending $50m just to tart Govt House up !! mmm
http://www.aatravel.co.nz/101/MustDo_New-Chums-Beach.html
http://www.coromandelbeaches.co.nz/beaches/new_chums_beach
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“Great article in The Press by Chris Trotter today.”
Yep, another great attempt by an old Marxist-influenced social democrat to find a constituency now that the memberships of the Alliance party and the former left wingers of the Labour party have all died off.
(For those who haven’t seen it, it’s just another demonisation of Hone Harawira regarding his comments on his probable response were his offspring to bring home a Pakeha partner, mixed with some dubious historical analysis. Even kiwiblog noted that the comments were no big deal when taken in context, but Trotter’s never one to let a little thing like that get in the way of a good rant.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/08/hone_in_more_context.html)
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@Sam Buchanan 8:22 PM
Lew at Kiwipolitico labeled Trotter as “a confused and angry old racist“.
Sadly, I don’t think Lew is far wrong. It is indeed sad that people like Trotter haven’t moved on, and still yearn for the ascent to power of the cloth-cap wearing, white, working class man. Never mind the women, or the Maori, or the Pasifika or Asian immigrants, or the GLBT community, or the disabled.
Trotter is an anachronism. Unfortunately, much of the left still treats him like God. He gets to speak, or sing, at union rallies – despite his putting down many of the attendees who are not white hetero men.
Either Trotter needs to move on, or those of us who are genuinely fighting for social justice need to move on from him.
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Is Heather Roy ill?
If not, should the Act party be able to send its members home to lick self-inflicted wounds on the public purse?
Yet more evidence that the driving principle behind Act is self interest, always.
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inkspot-It does make you wonder about their intelligence when they demote their one female and probably their most personable MP.
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I wonder if peterquixote will turn up to explain what happened to Heather
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Dowwwwwn with Trotter!!!!
You lot don’t like what Trotter says? You want whites to be the racists and Maori to be the victims (clear and simple) and under a Green banner next to the motley old white people who plant trees for Forest and Bird!!!!
Shame! Shame! Shame!
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As I said: “To some extent the green party is a product of the media”. Catherine was on Close Up last night. Luckily she didn’t get too much time to talk our she might have waxed lyrical about colonisation being like sewage. Her fixation would have been towards te tiritti as the solution for the problem of the development of the Coromandel beach because Tangata whenua would never allow development and always protect te kaimoana. More basically you might ask how Darby got his dosh and consider land value taxation as a solution to the excess wealth flowing to developers as they pocket capital gains from real estate pockets they capture (with the help of the bank and other peoples money).
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Toad Says:
Never mind the women, or the Maori, or the Pasifika or Asian immigrants, or the GLBT community, or the disabled.
=================
[another thumbs downer]
PART 2: UNDERSTANDING THE CONFLICTS WITHIN A BICULTURAL NEW ZEALAND
The Chinese population in New Zealand, comprising these two main groups, both fired up by (until recently) burgeoning Asian economies, and a resurgent China, seek to build a “multi-cultural” society in order to be able to assert their cultural identity to an extent consistent with their numbers, resources, energy etc. Within a democratic society they expect equality before the law and at least decreasing racial discrimination.
Lacking a proper understanding of “bicultural” principles, they observe with interest the apparently endless Treaty claims for vast tracts of “government” lands, rivers and fisheries.
They are more uneasy when it appears that Maori groups can make claims on, or object to the use of sites for passive recreation or sporting and cultural facilities proposed by municipal authorities. They are also uneasy when they see national resources being allocated to Maori language maintenance, Maori radio and television and Maori educational support.
They are positively alarmed when the Minister of Justice (naively) explains that there is one law for everyone, but the Maoris have additional rights under the Treaty of Waitangi.
Worst is the notion (implied by Europeans and voiced by Maori radicals) that the Chinese in New Zealand, as tau iwi (foreigners) have no standing to participate in the constitutional debate regarding the Treaty. This, despite the fact that many Chinese are fourth generation New Zealanders, whose forebears helped build the country, some even dying in its defence.
http://www.stevenyoung.co.nz/The-Chinese-in-New-Zealand/Other-articles/The-Chinese-in-a-Bicultural-New-Zealand.html
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I think Trotters slap down of Hone Harawira (and by implication) his fellow travelers (including many so called, “Red Greens”) will appear on Bowelly Road in the near future.
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Dont faint but am in total agreement with you regarding Trotter.
Unless workers unions modernise and became reactive instead of reactionary to modern trends, they will follow Trotter into oblivion.
To modernise a union (being basically nothing more then a collective of like minded individuals) they should
1,- take on the responsibility for employment training (and appreticeships)in their particular field of expertise
2,- provide workforce solutions to employers (take on the HR element of the employers business)
3,- employ it’s members and gain work for them by tendering for work.
Trotter would like nothing more then a return to the “good old days” but those days are gone for good.
Be interesting to know what Trotter would make of Laila Harré joining the Auckland Transition Agency.
Not kosher in his view I would imagine
http://www.ata.govt.nz/web/cms_ata.nsf/webnewslive/WGTN-7TQ4V6?OpenDocument&viewname=webnewsall&count=1&tn=News%20/%20Media
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Thanks for the fascinating generalisations, jh, I must remember to inform some of the people I know who are ethnic Chinese and also heavily involved in decolonisation work that they are “lacking a proper understanding of “bicultural” principles… are uneasy when it appears that Maori groups can make claims on… sites for passive recreation or sporting and cultural facilities…” and “are positively alarmed when the Minister of Justice (naively) explains that there is one law for everyone, but the Maoris have additional rights under the Treaty of Waitangi”. I’m sure we’d all have a good laugh.
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Actually Gerrit, your three-point plan to modernise unions was fairly similar to the practices of a few of the most militant unions New Zealand’s had – those with a syndicalist bent. Essentially you are saying that instead of acting as advocates, unions should be mutual aid associations for their members, ensuring that they, not the employers, control the conditions under which labour can be hired. Not a bad idea, but I can’t see employers (or their government) tolerating it for a moment.
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“Trotter is an anachronism. Unfortunately, much of the left still treats him like God.”
Really? I never heard a good word about him on the left – unless you count comments along the lines of “Trotter’s column wasn’t bad yesterday” said in a tone of mild surprise and disbelief. But I guess he has a few old unionist mates also in the ‘back to 1973′ movement.
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“lacking a proper understanding of “bicultural” principles”
…
I think that is the writers polite way of saying they think it’s a load of baloney.
As for you Team DeColonisation
“it takes a whooole lota people to make the world go ’round”.
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Gerrit Says:
Dont faint but am in total agreement with you regarding Trotter.
===
Have you read these?:
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/08/blood-sacrifice.html
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/07/arrogant-left.html
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/06/putting-us-in-our-places.html
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/06/maori-party-caves.html
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/06/going-early.html
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/05/taking-greens-seriously.html
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Does NZ’s richest man give a hoot about the environment? Does anyone know? Is he just a landfill filler or does he have a moral compass at all? His recent acquisition would indicate not but I have no idea what he does with his personal wealth.
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“it takes a whooole lota people to make the world go ’round”.
Eactly. Which is why the piece you posted saying Chinese New Zealanders think this and they think that and they are alarmed by such and such, is a complete load of rubbish.
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Sam Buchanan
Posted August 18, 2010 at 10:05 AM
“it takes a whooole lota people to make the world go ’round”.
Eactly. Which is why the piece you posted saying Chinese New Zealanders think this and they think that and they are alarmed by such and such, is a complete load of rubbish.
……
What about when a Professor of Maori studies talks about Maori culture. Does she speak for all Maori?:
Māori Role in Aotearoa/New Zealand
Defined by tikanga (our laws)
derive from a world view that we inherited from our ancestors
rooted as much in the spiritual aspects of this world as the physical.
based on underlying values which include
Mana – authority, power, control, ownership, status, influence, dignity, respect all derived from the gods
etc etc
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Will decolonisation be one of the Greens election platforms this election?
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Having had personal experience of the Harawera’s. They are racist gits.
You would not here apologists here for Pakeha who treat people like they do.
It is actions that prove racism not words. I have heard some people spout some appalling racist generalisations who are actually not racist at all in their real life treatment of other people. Others who say all the right words, but do not live them.
Chris Trotter’s second piece on the arrogant left actually hit the spot.
The arrogant idea of some on the left that they are the only ones that know what is good for us, and we should knuckle under and do what we are told, puts a lot of people off that would otherwise be supporters.
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“I have heard some people spout some appalling racist generalisations who are actually not racist at all in their real life treatment of other people.”
Yes, people often find it hard to put their theories into practice when it’s a face-to-face situation, but those same people may support racist policies and politicians.
“The arrogant idea of some on the left that they are the only ones that know what is good for us, and we should knuckle under and do what we are told,”
Yup – and Chris Trotter is a prime example. But it’s by no means exclusive to the left – I’ve lost count of the number of times free-marketeers try and tell me their policies are the only just politics and must be embraced by all whether they like it or not. And of course, the authoritarian, religious or moralistic right-wingers don’t even pretend other people’s opinions count.
“when a Professor of Maori studies talks about Maori culture. Does she speak for all Maori?”
Of course not.
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As should be obvious from my posts I have no time at all for NACT and the vision of unregulated “free markets”. The first thing a free market advocate does is try and subvert the market to their own advantage.
But the left need to clean up their act and listen to people if they want to be elected again.
Trotter is by no means the most arrogant I have heard.
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Which billboard is best?
http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/we-will-fight-key-on-the-beaches-join-the-campaign-focus-group/
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“With the recent announcement of the Fijian Government to give ownership of its coastal areas to indigenous tribes, it would be ideal to hope that this could offer some support to Maori arguments by is unlikely to have any effect here.
“I completely support and endorse what the Fijian Government has done. They’ve taken an initiative that this Government needs to follow. That unfortunately is not the case with the Government here; the indigenous Fijians are the majority and are in Government where as we are not,” Hingston said.
http://www.kahungunu.iwi.nz/…/FIGHTINGTALKONFORESHOREHingstonTalk.doc
what is worse: tyranny of a minority by the democratically elected majority or tyranny of the minority by a ….?
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“ownership of its coastal areas to indigenous tribes”
that is unequivocal. Test is [ ] beach in a coastal area [yes/no]? If yes belongs to Iwi. If no is a Green Party Policy Beach.
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Toad wrote the following
“The Fair Trading Act should be capable of adequately dealing with complimentary medicines being promoted as having beneficial effects when there is no scientific evidence to support them having those effects (your malaria example in your later comment).”
So is it common Green party thinking that people promoting dangerous health practices such as relying on Homeopathic remedies to Malaria infection should be dealt with under the Fair Trading Act?
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Mrs Turei said that the foreshore and seabed issue has always been about how lawful customary title can be recognised and respected.
“Beach access is not and has never been the issue—it is about equal treatment under New Zealand law.
“The best approach to this issue is respectful dialogue about te Tiriti and its recognition,” Mrs Turei said.
…………..
I note kevin Hague says:
“The phase of the discussion that we now need to move into is one that that focuses on Maori status as the indigenous people of this country and on the actual content of the Treaty: a statement of the terms and conditions for the presence of non-Maori. The Maori right to self-determination pre-dated the Treaty and was not altered by it. What is at issue in understanding the Treaty are the rights of non-Maori.”
So under Te Tiritti you acknowlege the mana whenua of iwi and Hapu who ocuppied coastal territory in 1840 and the foreshore and seabed debate is really about negotiating rights of access and use by Pakeha? Can any other conclusion be drawn? If so what?
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Yes, other conclusions can be drawn. They have been stated on this blog many times. You ignore them and restate your same tired drivel each time. There is no reason to think you engage on this topic with any good faith at all. Your obsession with imaginary bogeymen is truly boring. Good night.
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The Greens refusal to concisely outline how the party sees “decolonisation” surely leaves it open to ridicule not just by JH but I would imagine at election time (less then 14 months away) by any commentator, journalist or electoral opponent.
The Greens want decolonisation, what do they mean and how will it effect New Zealand society.
Not a good strategic postion to take up when the electoral wing of the party is totally dependent upon the second of the two MMP votes.
Strategically the Greens would be better to outline exactly what the coleader means when she refers to “decolonisation” so that the JHs’ of the electorate wont keep sniping on about the position taken by the Greens.
If the party sells it right it might get more votes!!
Looking forward to the Greens policy statement on “decolonisation” and how it will be enacted.
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Decolonisation conjurs up the old movie they used to show in schools One Huuundred Crowded Yearrrrrrrs! except all the men in top hats and women in bonnets are walking backwards to the ships. It also conjurs up images of people with masks spraying jeyes fluid decontaminating places Pakeha have been. The term also reminds me a bit of colon cleansing.
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Your request is reasonable, but thinking there’s anything that would satisfy jh is absurd.
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QED
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It is not the JHs’ you have to satisfy but the other 5% of the electorate the party needs to get over the treshold and thus continue to have an electoral presence.
“decolonisation” has images attached for a lot of people of Maori being in an “uber alles” position in New Zealand society.
If the Greens dont want that type of image to grow and prosper, it owes it to the electorate to explain exactly what the party means by “decolonisation”.
For a party rightly banging on about “equality”. there seems to be a contradiction with that ideology and “decolonisation”.
Looking forward to a Green policy statement as detailed as the New Green Deal one.
Where does “decolonisation” fit in the Greens New Deal crisis management document?
In fact where does it fit because there is nothing on the Greens’ web site to say it is an official party policy line.
Not even the local government campaign strategy mentions “decolonisation”.
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I don’t have an argument with you Gerrit, please stop trying to make it sound like I do.
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It is not an argument i’m seeking, just clarification from the Greens position in regards what “decolonisation” means.
Russel Norman is strangely quite on this matter.
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Heather Roy, ACT, etc:
I’ve been trawling through http://www.3news.co.nz/Portals/0/images/HEATHER%20ROY.pdf with interest. Some points of note:
Surprise! – Intentional leaks to their pet bloggers. No Minister is mentioned.
Pages 56 – 62 are where Heather speculates about the knock-on effects of what has subsequently occurred. Some of it is overly paranoid and are predicated on a massive loss of support (less than 3%?! the remaining hardcore Act-ies aren’t going anywhere I would have thought) but some rings true. e.g. The Maori Party will seek to press home short term advantage with more policy concessions. Winston Peters will articulate how he can help form a stable centre-right Government and will close in on ACT’s more right-wing policies eg law and order. The price extracted for the pressure on the Govt through a change of ACT Deputy Leader now, might be standing a strong candidate against Rodney in Epsom
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I thought the Coastal Coalitions’s new billboard was so crap it looks like it was made with MS Paint, until I read this http://thestandard.org.nz/karma-on-the-beach/#comment-241914. Genius!
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Despite Coastal Coalitions claims being called “crap” people are going to want certainty. That means no flakey concepts no gradual changes over time, no blank cheque words. It is quite clear the focus of some Maori is “ownership of its coastal areas to indigenous tribes”.
People need to know where the Greens stand: with the radicals (Indymedia and all that).
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Meteria Turie is indistinguishable from Tariana Turia.
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Professor Roger Bowden
Just in case you hadn’t heard, it’s now official; under the coalition Government’s proposed Foreshore and Seabed Act Mark II, customary title is recognised as ownership. No longer is ‘nobody is to own’ the foreshore and seabed, the way it was sold in the consultation document. Instead, iwi and hapu will have the right to claim a new form of title , which will sit over and above the residual public domain ‘in much the same way that fee simple title sits over the Crown’s radical title to land’, in the words of the Attorney General. From the economic point of view, that amounts to ownership. I am sceptical that it can even be reconciled with the weaker notion of public domain, which is left as an undefined residual and as such, subject to constant encroachment from activities and exclusions possible under the new title. So much for the reassuring words about an undefined ‘public access’ right.
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest200.htm
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All those Maorees look the same to you, eh jh?
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All those Maorees look the same to you, eh jh?
….
Are you saying there is a type Maori who is rock solid and as a reliable as a door stopper and these are the ones who we will deal with (versus normal humans with their faults and foibles)?
.
Darn Rimu you caused me to open my cheque book!
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Oh I see what you meant.
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HAPU PROFESSIONALISES KAITIAKI ROLES
Northland’s Ngati Rehia has set up its own hapu rangers to care for its whenua around Takou Bay north of the Bay of Islands.
Clinton Rameka, the project manager for the Takou Were-Te-Mokai group, says rangatahi are give training through NorthTec in pest management and ecology.
He says having locals on the job breaks down barriers, so they know who to ask for access when monitoring the waterways and setting trap lines.
Takou Were-Te-Mokai is working with other hapu who want to train rangatahi to become rangers.
waatea.blogspot.com
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“The issues surrounding the foreshore and seabed are about the treatment of Maori equitably under the law.
…
Except that as prior occupiers,(not to mention te tiritti/tino rangitiratanga) and, at a time when their population was a small fraction of the total numbers here today, Maoris case is rather different don’t you think? Weasel words?
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/billboards-designed-scare-not-educate
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@jh 8:37 AM
I haven’t seen Metiria selling out her principles to the National Party for the baubles of office, jh!
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It is a rare day that I can say I enjoy reading Kiwiblog, but today is one of them…
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Toad,
What happened to you on the Kiwiblog thread about ‘The Spirit Level Delusion’?
I was getting worried that something nasty had happened to you but it just looks like you ran scurrying for cover once your argument was blown to bits.
Oh well at least you’re back here amongst friends who can reassure you that the Greens are cool with science after all.
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BTW is it correct that members of the parliamentary wing of the Greens supported spending funding for investigating Possum peppering?
It really does beggar belief.
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Toad.
You read Kiwiblog? Don’t you have something better to do like watching grass grow.
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It’s my daily laxative, Kerry. Works a treat.
Gosman, I think eveyone on that KB thread apart from you has grown tired of people talking past each other. The last comment there apart from yours was over 13 hours ago.
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however you slice ‘n dice it…
roy was the most useless minister of consumer affairs …ever…
(i thought it was a sick joke on keys’ part when she was appointed to that role..
..and as expected….she non-delivered…
..in a spectacular fashion…
useless bastards…all of them..those act-ites…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Will Keith be suggesting we take climate change refugees from the Pakistani floods?
Time is Now!
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Phil, I think Roy was pretty poor too, but perhaps you forget Judith Tizard.
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i’m trying very hard to….
..shaky labour-list members have had me breaking out in a cold sweat…
..i have a little doll…with pins in it…
..that i bring out .. and throw incantations at…at such times…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“Northland’s Ngati Rehia has set up its own hapu rangers to care for its whenua around Takou Bay north of the Bay of Islands.”
Good on them! But I suppose the “Maoris are lazy and just complain” crowd will now be busy sitting in their armchairs complaining that Maori are getting uppity and out of control. Can’t have these people taking the initiative can we?
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Sh–t. I agree with Garth George. People are waking up. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10667088&pnum=2
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and..um..!..would you like some cancer with that egg…?
http://whoar.co.nz/2010/vegans-significantly-less-polluted-egg-consumption-was-associated-with-in-increased-odds-of-cancers-of-the-oral-cavity-and-pharynx-esophagus-upper-aerodigestive-tract-includes-oral-cavity-pharynx-esop/
“…Every five years, the U.S. government measures the amount of toxic waste in our food supply.
Dioxins are a class of industrial pollutants spewed into the atmosphere …
… that “accumulates in the fatty tissues of humans and food animals consumed by humans.
It is generally believed that the most significant exposure to DLCs [dioxin-like compounds such as PCBs] by humans …
… is from the dietary intake of animal and fish products.”
But which animal products pose the greatest risk?
According to recent data from the Environmental Protection Agency … second only to fish … in terms of PCB levels: … eggs.
This may help explain the findings of a recent study that found that egg consumption …
…”was associated with in increased odds of cancers of the oral cavity and pharynx, esophagus, upper aerodigestive tract …
…(includes oral cavity, pharynx, esophagus, larynx)…
… colon and colon and rectum combined, lung, breast, prostate, bladder ….
… and all cancers combined.”
Of all the cancers, egg consumption was most tightly correlated with breast cancer risk.
Those eating more than a half an egg a day were found to have nearly 3 times the odds of breast cancer ….
… compared to those that stayed away from eggs entirely.
The industrial toxins found in animal products don’t just contribute to cancer risk.
According to a recent commentary in the journal Reproductive Toxicology …
… “increasing evidence suggests that maternal exposure to toxic chemical compounds may be associated with various congenital [birth] defects …
… pediatric problems … skewed gender ratios … lethal cancers in children and teens … psychosexual challenges …
… as well as reproductive and endocrine [hormonal] dysfunction in later life.”
The author concludes:…
… “I anticipate that future generations of scientists will look back with disbelief at a medical culture that permitted poisoning of reproductive aged women …
… and ignored ramifications to unborn children.”
What if one chooses not to eat meat, fish, dairy, or eggs, though?…” (cont..)..
(kinda puts the caged/free-range debate in the shade…
…eh..?..
..bacon and eggs…?..anyone…?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Sam Buchanan
Posted August 19, 2010 at 2:44 PM
“Northland’s Ngati Rehia has set up its own hapu rangers to care for its whenua around Takou Bay north of the Bay of Islands.”
Good on them!
————-
5. DAVID GARRETT to the Attorney-General: Will he commit to prohibiting Māori owners from charging other New Zealanders for access to beaches; if not, will he at least limit the amount they can charge to $5, the fee currently charged by the Māori owners of Takou Bay in Northland?
——————
But I suppose the “Maoris are lazy and just complain” crowd will now be busy sitting in their armchairs complaining that Maori are getting uppity and out of control. Can’t have these people taking the initiative can we?
+
The question asked will be under the current foreshore and seabed proposals how many places may end up in a similar situation?
And a further point: does article two of Te Tiritti mean the foreshore and seabed comes under tino rangitiratanga? If not why not., and as the Greens are committed to te tiritti are they also not bound to a policy which vests all coastal areas in hapu and iwi. If not why not??
Is your answer that while being committed to the treaty you have to be pragmatic so you don’t actually go so far as to take it to the letter?
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http://whoar.co.nz/2010/the-8-most-absurd-excuses-for-trying-to-defeat-legal-pot/
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Charles Chauvel busts the anti-environment Nats.
(Just look who’s talking!)
http://robertguyton.blogspot.com/2010/08/its-free-for-oil.html
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As does Kennedy!
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/safety-environment-must-come-permits
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“Is your answer that while being committed to the treaty you have to be pragmatic so you don’t actually go so far as to take it to the letter?”
Dunno – ask the Greens. I’m not committed to the treaty myself.
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