by frog
Lots to talk about? Go for it!
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Published in THE ISSUES by frog on Wed, June 2nd, 2010
Tags: login
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Dig it out of the ground
Melt it down
Bury it
Guard it
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There are a large number of websites around the world making a claim that the amount of greenhouse gases pumped into the atmosphere by the icelandic volcano amounts to 42 times the amount of emission saved in the last 12 months. The same quote appears in many sites – e.g see the 1st comment at this site:
http://magblog.audubon.org/icelandic-volcano%E2%80%99s-impact-global-warming-green-transportation-bird-watching-and-more
I am struggling to find any reference to a source from any of these sites leading me to suspect its been made up and picked up as truth. Does anyone know where this claim originated?
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Or how about the Brazilian energy company which has been awarded gas and oil exploratory rights to the Raukumara basin off of the East Cape? Its good to know that Gerry and his mates are passing some legislation to ensure that a spill like that currently being experienced in the gulf of mexico couldn’t happen here. I feel very comforted by this ;>)
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There are an equal number saying the particles will cause cooling.
However, they are drawing a long bow because the Iceland volcano is a small eruption compared to Pinotabo which did cause cooling. The Iceland dust just happened to be in the right place to do the most damage to airlines. Mt Erebus has a major impact on ozone levels over the Antarctic.
Seems each volano does its own thing. We are a long way off understanding them and their many effects.
The work on the warming effect of submarine volcanoes is interesting too. There is an argument that the recent melting of Arctic ice was driven by a combination of winds and submarine volcanic activity.
We so little about these other systems.
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Sleepyday, I don’t know where that claim comes from, but I do know that this link gives a very different picture
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/planes-or-volcano/
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http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2010/06/the-green-party-list-selection-conflict.html
But it’s still a bit of a mystery. Anyone keen to clear things up about this extraordinary situation? Green MPs? Frog? Valis? Toad? So far there’s been a conspicuous silence on both Frogblog and the main Greens website. What was obviously an internal issue of quite some contention has now turned into a very public issue, so it’d be good to get some greater clarity on it all.
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The unfolding catastrophe of the world’s worst
oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico should be warning
enough to anyone thinking of drilling in deep
water but our Government is going ahead anyway.
Their invitation to the giant Brazillian oil company,
with major accidents in it’s history, to drill off
the east coast of New Zealand is reckless
enough but plans to drill for oil in the deep and
difficult waters of our Southern Basin are
foolhardy in the extreme.
(letter to the editor)
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@Bryce Frogblog is primarily a parliamentary blog, and the AGM is a party thing so I’d be surprised if anything was said about it here
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The LULUCF loophole awaits you guys… go on, take in Peggy Putt’s pov and what the Bonn meet is mostly about… Finger licking
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I’m surprised to see so little reaction to the actions of the Israeli Govt. a few days ago against foreign Nationals & ships in International waters. Why do we allow such acts to go almost without comment – is it because we expect them to do these things and so almost ignore them – or we are so conditioned to think they they have some sort of right to act like international thugs & bullys – or we agree they can do what they like to ‘protect’ themselves from ‘terrorists’.
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bigblukiwi-To be fair I think there has been strong reactions from many quarters, but the ones that have real influence, like the US, are reluctant to condemn outright. Obama just stated regret fro the loss of life and suggested that Israel themselves investigate the issue. It is the US who regularly protect Israel from international law and other nations just fall in behind.
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I don’t think that’s true. I’m very far from the centre of party gossip. But no-one I know was het up about the principles at stake – just typical Green Party over-zealous attention and care about the details of process.
Why someone’s got so keen as to put out the newspaper ads is beyond me.
The constitution currently gives the exec great freedom to decide how party lists are done. So some party members decided to make that more formally proscribed. A good idea.
But their proposed formalisation was a bit, well, unbending. Enter long and boring arguments about details of procedure required.
Final result: a remit on the AGM agenda, and proposal at the AGM to amended it to a remit that formalises the election process onto the party list in the consitution, but leaves the exec with some sensible oversight. So the vote by all party members would still create the list orderings. Then there’s the “Buts”:
But the party would publish in advance of the vote what algorithm will be applied after the vote to adjust the final list (if necessary) for balance by gender/race/left-vs-right-handedness or whatever is thought important. But the exec would have the power to remove people from the list if they were found to have lied in the candidate details. Etc.
I won’t be at the AGM. Maybe the Canterbury Hort Society will see green-lined black cloaks whirling as machiavellian conspirators meet in the Chch fog to plot, while the underground printing presses run hot with revolutionary pamphlets. But I doubt it. I think it will be very earnest but extremely dry, dull and lengthy discussions about the phrasing and intent of amended remit 2 subclause 10.3.
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Mr Key’s drawing of the Beehive sold on Sunday as part of the “Big Names, Small Canvas” auction held as a fundraiser by the Riverton Community Arts Centre.
Mr Key was arguably the biggest name at the Riverton auction, although he didn’t attend, and it was expected that his canvas would be hotly contested.
In the event, only a few punters bid on the sketch and it was quickly sold to Mandy Crawford of Aparima for $140.
Mrs Crawford said she had not intended to bid on Mr Key’s sketch but after missing out on two paintings that she had wanted, and seeing no one interested in the PM’s artwork, she decided to try.
“It’s not art in the same category as the others,” Mrs Crawford said.
The sketch hit the headlines in April when it was reported some artists may have boycotted the auction because of Mr Key’s entry.
Riverton Community Arts Centre curator Lisa Grace said although the auction was a success, she was disappointed the Prime Minister’s entry didn’t sell for more.
“The whole thing’s been a controversy,” she said.
http://www.sit.ac.nz/insitu/?p=1480
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I have to say, the first comment on this link says it sooo well!
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/the_environmental_protection_authority.html#comments
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Hmm – what on earth is that a reference to by ol’ Bevan there?
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I don’t hear any talk of Te tiritti from the conference. Is more on the way?
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/opinion/3778581/Toning-down-quirkiness
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“the Greens are no normal political party. Even its own polling suggests that voters are not always able to distinguish between the party and other parts of the Green movement, notably Green Peace – and given the clout of the green brand, that is probably not such a bad thing.”
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..and i had only met a few of them before….
how cool is that..?
(there are more of us every day….eh..?..)
and the food..?..mmm!!!
and the desserts..?….mmmm..!!!
and very very cool people…from all walks of life…
go vegan..!..eh..?
http://whoar.co.nz/?s=vegan
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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john 6
5 June 2010 at 10:51 am
Private Investor money all round the World is in trouble with economic collapse and has had to be bailed out by the taxes of hardworking people plus the cutback in social services just to keep the Wealth Worship compound interest fiesta for the Rich to keep going. These rich want to make money from unproductive speculation and money for old rope interest, they do not invest all that money in productive enterprise which has high risk such as starting up manufacture of an alternative energy industry. Answer cannibilize for profits the Public Sector by Privatization making it into a for the rich money fiesta instead of a social asset for all Kiwis. We are already extremely divided in terms of wealth and income differences,This Act National Government want to continue the process of turning us into a feudalistic society of rich barons and poor serfs working for minimal wages and next to none social wage. Someone at the last Act Conference put forward the idea of privatizing hospitals! All this neo-liberal rubbish ideology originated in the USA which is in the most awful mess with 40,000,000 Americans on food stamps and whole States bankrupt and huge unemployment while being ministered to as they’re chucked out of their homes by Oprah who is a Billionaire twice over!!! Is that the type of society we want? Well you voted it in last election!
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You gotta see this! (If just for the photo!)
http://www.3news.co.nz/Mining-debate-derailed-by-scaremongering—Brownlee/tabid/419/articleID/159430/Default.aspx?ArticleID=159430&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+co%2FEoAG+%283News+-+Political+News%29
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Brownlee on the leaked mining proposal document.
Naughty DOC.
The EPA will smash them!
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Thought these few links may be of interest to some.
http://www.alternet.org/story/147098/why_did_god_create_atheists?page=1
http://www.alternet.org/story/147106/why_banks_try_to_make_borrowers_feel_like_sinnerx_when_they_can't_pay_off_their_mortgages
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For those who claim that Israel was ‘within it’s rights’ & that all those who claim otherwise have no basis for their complaints & cannot provide references etc. etc. please read the Guardian (on-line) today (Sat June 6th)& also this extremely plain and straight forward analysis.
http://www.alternet.org/story/147115/the_gaza_blockade_is_illegal_and_the_flotilla_attack_was_an_illegal_act_of_war?page=1
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Smith – agriculture might never have to be in the scheme!
Snake-eyed, snake tongued.
No certainty at all that agriculture will be required to pay in 2015!
Guyon Espiner tears Smith a new emitter!
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“Someone also needs to tell Gerry he can’t use the ‘Best Practice’ line when defending oil companies drilling offshore from NZ. Currently there is no law other than ‘Best Practice’ to keep these oil companies in line. What does Best Practice stand for folks? BP. Get a new line Gerry or get another flogging in the media.”
http://www.tumeke.blogspot.com/
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bigblukiwi,
So who will go to war with Israel? Not many in the line up.
Interestingly Hamas are blocking the aid from those ships from being deployed into Gaza.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-blocking-entry-of-flotilla-aid-into-gaza-1.293943
Lot of politiking by both sides and the suffering continue fot the Palestinians. Not served well by either Israel or Hamas. Plainly just political foorballs at the mercy of ALL (including the blockade put on by Egypt)
Egypt will lift the blockade “for a few days” to let aid through. Not a permanent lifting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/01/egypt-lifts-its-side-of-g_n_595786.html
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This may be of interest to Keith Locke.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/un-proposes-former-new-zealand-pm-head-gaza-flotilla-probe-1.294376
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racism in Aotearoa:
“Our history is built on a deep contradiction and an ongoing commitment to state sanctioned violence, not by the people in this meeting, but by the powerbrokers and passive racists who maintain control. I am talking about a belief in equality for the assimilated and fairplay for everyone who acts like a Pakeha and I am generalising wildly to make a point, but living in Te Tairawhiti has only strengthened my view that we have a long way to go. 50% of the population is tangata whenua and the level of poverty and discrimination resembles the north. We have plenty of beaten women; gutted communities and whanau living in state housing that have never had proper electricity or water supplies. But lots of Pakeha are drinking wine and surfing, and they say so loudly without saying a word, would you please shut up about the connection between racism and poverty? ”
–
I didn’t realise state houses lacked “proper electricity or water supplies” perhaps bj could explain proper electricity?
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0702/S00068.htm
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Who is the Minister for the Environment? The US is about to knock off hundreds of thousands of those wonderfull brown pelicans(oil slick).
Can we bring them here? – please? – they are absolutely beautifull and smarter than.
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Pakeha spiritually empty and in denial:
.
The severing from ancestors and from the land has brought us material advantage and spiritual emptiness. The denial of this condition assists us in our denial of the tangata whenua indigenous reality and justifies our control of resources.
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…the Minister for the Environment.
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would be You if talent found it’s correct place….
Well who is in charge of the DOC? (the Public Service I know)
But there should be a show pony around
How many portfolio’s can you handle Fly?
Better look after internal/foreign affairs too
and if Bull’s an Economist, I’m a UFO
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“The Government has announced the formation of a new agency to administer the Emissions Trading Scheme.”
http://www.celsias.co.nz/article/climate-books-new-hands/
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Even its own polling suggests that voters are not always able to distinguish between the party and other parts of the Green movement, notably Green Peace – and given the clout of the green brand, that is probably not such a bad thing. The question the party has grappled with, therefore, is whether being stacked with rugged individualists risks muddying and even overpowering its brand as a cog in the wider green movement.
Ms Bradford is the most powerful example of that. She was a reformer, an activist and a hugely effective parliamentarian, with a large following in the party.
But she was also polarising within the wider electorate. For every vote she attracted, hundreds were lost, particularly among the more mainstream voters who would otherwise consider exercising their “green” conscience by ticking Green Party at the ballot box. Mr Tanczos, whose pro-cannabis crusade attracted the youth vote but alienated many others, posed a similar dilemma.
–
The party used to have a genius for eye-catching and headline- grabbing stunts. The worry is that they didn’t always hit the mark.
Worse, they might have succeeded in turning off potential voters who might have liked to vote green but saw the Greens as the lunatic fringe of the movement. In other words, the “crazies over the back fence”, as one insider puts it.
–
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/opinion/3778581/Toning-down-quirkiness
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Electricity is of course, completely catholic in its application. It will happily electrocute anyone of any political persuasion or income bracket.
Some accidents however, are more likely than others. Having seen the primitive fusing and safety arrangements, the daisy chains of extensions due to inadequate outlet placement and a myriad of other not so proper electrical arrangements I have to suspect that this is a matter of loosely worded criticism of the delivery mechanisms, not the electricity itself.
BJ
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I think wikipedia does a great job of dealing with controversial topics; much better than the Green party who claim to have an advanced process “appropriate decision making”. In fact what happens is Keith Locke (in this case) gives a predictable (one side of the argument) response. If Keith Locke was on the Mavi Marmara his account would have to be taken with a big fat pinch of salt.
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crikey…!..
convention on all weekend….
..and not a whisper about it on frogblog…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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It’s the veil Phil
(of secrecy!)
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Mark Solomon seems to be saying, on behalf of iwi katoa, no to the Governments Foreshore and Seabed offer and that the f&s presently owned privately should be returned to its previous state.
If this is in fact his position, it’s a Screamingly Big Thing, imho, yet I hear no sound.
Have we died and one to some numb place?
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Phil
This is actually as it should be. The participants in the AGM are participating. When it is over they will be back and able to report on what happened there.
It isn’t as though there are a whole lot of us.
Just spent the last 24 hours with my 6 year old in hospital with croup.
Going to go out and get some more firewood. Southerly Gale is forecast.
We may not see the AGM participants back for a little longer.
BJ
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um..!..their speeches have been reported in the media..
..why are the vids of both co-leaders/commentaries/articles not posted up here…
..as soon as possible after they were delivered..?
..please tell me why that is a ‘can’t do/stupid idea..?
i mean..f.f.s..!..they have paid ‘media-people’..grrr..!!!!
how the fark do they fill their days…?
and we are coming up six days since a fresh general debate…
(y’know..!..sometimes i really wonder….
..if it’s not blinding incompetence/inertia(?)
..w.t.f. is it..?
a party that has as one of it’s constant moans..
..’the media never cover what we do’…
..and yet have willfully neglected this one outlet they can control themselves..
..eh..?
and why aren’t you doing it for the green party members/supporters/thinking about supporting..
..who can’t be there…
..why isn’t frog blogging it for them..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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how’s the list-ranking rankling…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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icehawk@10:56
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“Final result: a remit on the AGM agenda, and proposal at the AGM to amended it to a remit that formalises the election process onto the party list in the consitution, but leaves the exec with some sensible oversight. So the vote by all party members would still create the list orderings. Then there’s the “Buts”:
But the party would publish in advance of the vote what algorithm will be applied after the vote to adjust the final list (if necessary) for balance by gender/race/left-vs-right-handedness or whatever is thought important. But the exec would have the power to remove people from the list if they were found to have lied in the candidate details. Etc.”
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It doesn’t look good. I don’t think I would be high on the list!?
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has it rankled out..yet…?
or is it expected to rankle on indefinitely…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phil
Good rant, and I gave it an uptick.
I expected both the relative silence and your reaction… all as it should be.
respectfully
BJ
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it has always been thus…
(i find sthis continued/institutional(?) lack of preparation/basic-organisation..media/politics 101…
…somewhat soul-sapping..
..eh…?)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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it’s a control-thing..bj…
..that has always been thus..also..
(there should have been people blogging the workshops..etc..
..giving those not there..and those interested…and the media..esp. new/media..
..a feel of what is going down..of being part of it..
..y’know..’different’/'transparent’..?
18 months out from the election…
..and they still haven’t ‘got it’..
..what can ye f*cken do..?
save rail at them…
..in the hope that one day…
..the penny might drop…
..but as i said..’f*cken soul-sapping’..
..and all about ‘control’….eh..?
..of both message…and any possible dissent/questioning-voices..
..is catherine delahunty running it..as usual..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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didyaknow there is a new female co-convenor..?
..aged 25..former young greens leader..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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farrar has the dom-post report..
“… Georgina Morrison, the younger challenger to become the Green Party’s new female co-convener, was bulging with a baby bump. She marched up on to the stage and stood behind the lectern to sell herself to the party.
Her rival for the position, Wendy Harper, preferred to roam about in front of the stage. She answered questions with wisecracks and swore like a trooper. She even dropped the f-bomb, without a care, in front of 200 people.
Ms Morrison, on the other hand, was all professionalism. She had speech notes, whereas Miss Harper winged it. Ms Morrison had swish, corporate clothes, whereas Miss Harper was sporting a sloppy green shirt and sparkly-framed glasses.
Ms Morrison, decades her rival’s junior, was the immediate past co-leader of the Young Greens, a point she emphasised in her pitch to the party. Miss Harper, on the other hand, proudly announced that her 18-year-old son was newly independent.
The choice for the party was clear – a sharp, professional young environmentalist or a hardened, potty-mouthed unionist.
They chose the 25-year-old Ms Morrison. This was the party confirming its shift to a new generation of leadership..”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I loved this, from Kiwiblog
rouppe (67) Says:
June 7th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
The Greens irritate me. I find it intensely frustrating that they are now banging on about water and cleanliness now that they are in opposition.
But not as much as seeing Big Bruv get demerited by Farrar, for using ‘cannabis’.
Oh me, oh my!
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Straight out of the Dom Post here. He’d better have given credit to the original writer.
BJ
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are you not paying attention there..bj..
“..farrar has the dom-post report….”
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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sleepyday, et al,
The InformationIsBeautiful volcano figure amounts to 100 MT CO2 p/a, which is compatible with the discussion on ScepticalScience, which says that in a typical year, volcanoes add 0.3 bn (US I assume) tons of C02 to the atmosphere.
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Gerrit – back to Israel/Palestine – I certainly hope no one ‘goes to war with Israel’, particularly Iran. I’m suggesting more balance from the Int. Community/US – after all, 60 years of aggression from both sides in this sorry affair has left us at the brink of (possibly Nuclear) war, with ‘terrorism’ rampant worldwide (in the opinion of some I hasten to add), & the Zionist/US position basically unchanged, except for a serious ramping up of death & destruction – admittedly reciprocated by the fanatic Jihadists. At least the Europeans seem to be at least saying the right things. I just feel that someone with a bit of clout needs to step in between these mutually belligerant peoples so we don’t all end up down the Pan !
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jc2 – we can argue ad infinitum about how much volcanoes of various types, including undersea ones, add (CO2) to the atmosphere. A point many seem to miss is that they do this at an average constant rate (over say a term of 10,000 years). Of course there are blips, some very large, but these ‘smoothe out’ in a few years or a decade at most.
If you look at all sources of & sinks of all GHG gases over that term, there is one only that stands out as unusual/interesting/significant. Guess which ?
Others are becoming significant in recent years, such as Methane from warming Tundra, pasture/animal release, destruction of forests, probably lower adsorbtion to Oceans, etc.etc.
But then all this has lost much significance if you reckon on the almost complete loss of interest in such matters by the masses. At least those who seemed to care only 6 short months ago – the vast proportion of people on the planet always had more urgent concerns.
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With Stock Markets tanking & both Hungarian & UK Prime Ministers preparing populations for much financial pain ahead, and Hungary saying that the Forint is practically worthless, thus effecting the Euro/Dollar relationship (many loans to Hungary are in Dollars/Euros) – what chance paying them back with Forints ? The statement has since been ‘withdrawn’, meaning they were leant on by all & sundry, to not be so naive as to be truthful.
Looks plainer sailing now for that ‘world currency’ we all can’t wait for – (not, maybe)
If you want to read an extract from Money Week on the subject go here -
http://www.cox.org.nz
under – Inflation – Hyperinflation – Deflation.
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bigblukiwi,
No one will step into the Israel V Palestine argument because it is simply not fixable. While ALL condemn there is very little practical anyone can, or would want to, to seperate the waring sides.
Sure you get posturing from all and sundry (like Keith Locke’s rant) nothing will be done. What was done after each Israel strike ?
Nothing (they closed Arafat down quite easily with huge condemation but little if any physical admonishment).
Because no one will do anything while the Arab extremist call for the destruction of Israel and Israel has the might to withstand any militiary attack.
The Arabs know they cant win militiarily so will keep going with “terrorist” strikes using the Palestinians as shields.
There is one solution and that is for the Palestinians people to throw out the “terrorist” and resolve peace with Israel. Maybe even let Gaza and the left bank become protectorates of Israel until such time they can keep terrorist organisations out of their society.
Chances of that is about zero so the conflict will continue.
While people take sides (notice how little the Keith Lockes’ of this world have to say about the Hamas blockade of Gaza to prevent the aid getting to the Palestinian people?) they are actually totally powerless to do anything but gnash their teeth and wring their hands.
Long term Israel will be there simply based on militiary might and technological weapons superiority over the Arab nations.
Iran might have nuclear ambitions to drop a bomb on Israel but it is MAD scenario even they wont contemplate, despite the retoric from the clergy over there. They dont have the capacity to travel to Israel and conduct a winable conventional war.
Long term the Iranian revolution will fizzle out and will stop funding terrorist organisations in return for internal growth and modernisation.
The conflict will eventually just fizzle out. Especially when Syria (and by default Labanon) joins Egypt and Jordan as states not interested in harbouring Arab terrorist organisations.
Even terrorist organisations have a life span and those will fizzle out as well. In another 200 years the conflict will be seen for what it is. A stupid unwinable and intractable conflict that simply did not need to have happened.
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Too right Phil… skimmed right past. BJ
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But the exec would have the power to remove people from the list if they were found to have lied in the candidate details. Etc.”
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It doesn’t look good. I don’t think I would be high on the list!?
No it wouldn’t look good at all. But you’d only get on if you lied a lot, so no worries. We’ll keep an eye on ya
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