by Keith Locke
New Zealand shouldn’t stay silent as Thailand descends into chaos and potentially a bloodbath. We should be backing the Red Shirts’ call for UN mediation.
We can’t just sit on the sidelines as the Thai rulers – who have no electoral mandate – resort to greater force to repel a massive movement of the urban and rural poor.
Our government may have had good relations with the Thai elite – including a free trade agreement – but that is no excuse for keeping quiet.
Our higher duty is to the Thai people who might be slaughtered in their thousands if the situation continues to deteriorates.
We should say: bring in the UN now to help chart a course to new elections and a Thai government which has the confidence of the people.
Published in Justice & Democracy by Keith Locke on Mon, May 17th, 2010
Tags: NZ Thai FTA, Red shirts, UN
More posts by Keith Locke | more about Keith Locke
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Good coverage of the latest in Bangkok here:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1005/S00135.htm
Totaly agree with you Keith, the unelected faction in Thailand are running a military dictatorship to prevent democracy.
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NZ really should support UN, especially UNDHR
http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/BD654F54-E941-452C-8DAD-DA22CB87665D/141085/49SCES_EVI_00DBHOH_BILL9320_1_A40747_NewZealandLaw.pdf
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The point you make is pretty redundant, unless the Thais back the mediation. God, Mohammed, Ganesh, Buddha and Richard Dawkins may support it but it will not mke the slightest difference.
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This has nothing to do with New Zealand. NZ didn’t choose to interfer with the very corrupt Thaksin government. What makes this so different? The fact that it is more public and Thaksin’s murders were more covert? It is a matter for Thailand to face, sift through and sort out. Bangkokkiwi
Bangkokkiwi
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The sheer audacity of Comrade Locke having anything at all to say about the internal politics of one of Cambodia’s neighbours is beyond breathtaking.
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The sheer idiocy of Citizen oob having anything at all to say about anything at all is beyond breathtaking.
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The oobs are a bit like the Peter Saunders. There is a good one (out of bed) who frequents The Standard, and a bad one who has accumulated 85 demerit points at Farrar’s Sewer.
Guess which one has strayed over here?
Be carefuly ‘fly, he can turn nasty.
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Turn?
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I struggle to see what qualifications New Zealand has to step into this conflict where failings can be found both sides of the arguments. The Buddhist cultural overlay is one which has to be considered and I wonder what depth of knowledge any of our mediators would have in treading in those waters. Trashing about in one area of Geo-politics makes politicians feel as if they are important while they conveniently forget their own past support for repressive regimes.
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Qualifications, Ants?
Isn’t respect for democracy and human rights sufficient?
Although when I look at this thread, I do wonder.
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toad – Democracy is in itself a strange concept and to say we are democratic means different things in different cultures. Similarly “human rights” gives one party their authority to impose their concept of “human rights” on another. If these terms were objectively definable I would agree with you.
Qualification you ask – Our mediation in Fiji produced another mess. Our own lack of progress in redressing the issues with the Treaty of Waitangi are further demonstrations of not dealing with issues properly on our own patch.
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Okay Ants, as I alluded to above, our own track record isn’t that great either, and you have just supplied a couple more examples.
Maybe I am trapped by my own cultural identity, but I do believe there is an objective perspective on human rights – the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a good start, becasue of its widespread international acceptance across many cultures.
Although it doesn’t adequately address issues such as rights of LGBT communities, who are still subject to institutionalised harassment in many countries and even here denied the same rights to marriage that people of heterosexual orientation have.
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@greenfly 4:18 PM
oobadiah???
Well, sure as hell not Ooby Dooby.
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Ants – by ‘stepping in’ do you mean ‘speaking about’?
You’d like us to keep our views to ourselves?
If you were speaking about plans to invade the country to assist one side or the other, perhaps you’d have a point, but registering our concerns?
Hardly.
Are you the kind of person who would pull the curtains and turn up the volume on the telly when the neighbours are throwing furniture at each other?
“We should say: bring in the UN now to help chart a course to new elections and a Thai government which has the confidence of the people.”
That’s Keith’s call. What issue do you have with that level of interest?
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greenfly – Stepping is a matter of degree. However speaking about is fine as long as someone is listening or wants to listen.
Where do you register your concerns? Do your best and say you are concerned however it wont affect those fired up by hate and their own specific agendas.
Hmm the metaphor of neighbours are throwing furniture is not quite appropriate here. There is lethal force involved in this situation however who is the villain who is victim is hard for us to establish from here. Why does a New Zealand politician who formally supported a repressive regime want to step in? What is the political agenda?
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Ants, get with the program will you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Locke#Controversy
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Rimu – My mistake, oops. My mistake- maybe I’m on the wrong page! Yes – Must go and upset the cat! My mistake.
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Ants – your ‘formerly supported’ quip is so vacuous sound couldn’t travel through it.
Don’t be a waste of space (and time).
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Greenfly – my fault so he still supports a repressive regime? I thought the Cambodians had a different government from Pol Pot. Maybe there is another repressive regime Keith supports now?
It is interesting how a politician from former Colonial Power albeit a small one such as New Zealand has the nerve to suggest that we have the ability to decide how another country should deal with its internal difficulties. The US is making noises and tut tutting. Will that help?
Lets wait and see!
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Ants – from the link supplied by Rimu:
“(Keith Locke)also responded that he renounced his support after hearing of their atrocities, while the New Zealand Government of the time continued to express support for the regime.)
Keith does indeed ‘have the nerve’ to speak out about oppression.
In this instance he is calling upon the UN to “help chart a course to new elections and a Thai government which has the confidence of the people.”
Your opposition to his actions seems to be based on misunderstanding and misinformation but at least you have the nerve to speak up.
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What was a comment on the original writer’s comments about a very complex situation (that is as I type deteriorating rapidly) has degenerated into personal attacks. New Zealand did not respond to the Thaksin government who had an appalling history of human rights abuses.I think Comrade Locke is looking at this as a red and black situation based on his family affiliations which hang about him. It is disappointing as a New Zealander living long term in this beautiful land to read a blog by a person of some repute ( which became avaliable intenationally) who lacked the integrity to research his subject and familiarize himself with the integral complexities of this situation. Yes I guess I can attack too.
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The redshirts are really bad. They say they want democracy, but we already have democracy. They just want to take over the gov’t. Redshirts = poor people from the northeast + workers from BKK such as taxi drivers whose hometowns are in the northeast. They have been promised to be made rich if they get Thaksin back in power by any means possible. We are against them, that is me personally and most people in BKK and the rest of the country. I really hate them and wish the government would crack down.
I guess it’s hard to understand unless you live here and see nice places being ruined! So far buildings are untouched, it’s just the roads and sidewalks that they took over, and that’s just at a few key intersections downtown. It will be easy to clean up if they ever stop protesting! The police are being too easy on them.
There are still some ‘situations’ downtown, as you can see on the news. Redshirts are piling tyres up in the road and burning them. Today the army sent in 4 tanks to one of the intersections. C’mon army, more power to crush the redshirts! And JAIL for the redshirt leaders who incited all this.
No UN needed. Don’t negotiate with terrorists.
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Keith wants us to support the call for mediation. Hardly outrageous.
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Yeah Expat in BKK!
No mediation. That’s for losers!
Crush! Crush! Crush!
Negotiate?
NEVER!!!
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Keith Locke wants mediation with interference from parties ignorant of this complex situation.I notice he hasn’t had the b…s to wade in and add anything else.
The solution must come from within this country. Negotiation will be difficult but nothing is impossible. The Thai people will have to find a new consensus on how Thailand should be governed. That will take time. Both sides seem to have lost faith in the electoral system.
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Greenfly – The song of the ‘call to mediation’ comes from the wrong singer. Consequently rational argument in his favour would be lost. The singer’s reputation leaps ahead of him as do memories of his past. Trust once lost is hard to find with politicians. Their own particular agendas usurp the needs of the community, they want to play the good guy screaming against the bully but they forget that often in the past they allied themselves with bullies and tyrants. Why believe in them this time?
While mediation takes place there will be settling of old scores. Compromise inevitably produces two losers or a third one with the mediator if there are unrecognised issues. Negotiate? Who is going to be the ref? The US? (Oh dear) Russia (God forbid) UN – (Find the untainted)
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No role for the United Nations negotiators then Lorraine?
The ‘two sides’ in Thailand seem to be having a great deal of trouble discussing the situation amicably.
People
are
getting
hurt
and
killed.
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Greenfly – there is always the King as another player in the mix. There are more than two sides in this conflict. There are the game masters and the string pullers. There are the corrupt and the innocent, the monks, and more. Who is going to come to the negotiation? Who will keep to their agreements?
Yes the situation is sad sorry and miserable for all on the ground.
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The UN certainly don’t have a great track record. They’re a romantic notion that everyone can get together and solve the world’s problems. They would just be another cog in an overloaded wheel.
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Ants – the way I see it, Keith’s not putting himself foward as a negotiator. I think you are mixing your messages with your messengers.
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The government there agreed to new elections, didn’t it? What is the problem really?
This is not the business of the UN yet. There is nothing for us to “support” and this is not a place where “siding with” one side or the other is clearly and transparently the correct moral thing to do.
Last news I had, Thailand was doing about as well at Democracy as Great Britain. Not everyone is HAPPY at that poor showing, but the repression by the police was pretty benign for a really long time, and the occupation of the center of town doesn’t appear to be all that democratic either.
Extortion is a word that comes to mind.
I don’t know enough to be sure, but I AM sure that before we pull out the stops in terms of intervention on one side or the other we’d best be damned sure that we know the facts and have made some effort to educate people as to what those facts are. I find it a little disturbing that we’re choosing sides when most people here in NZ don’t know what the two sides really represent and when the reports from Thailand indicate that they aren’t all that certain either.
This “ready, fire, aim” process doesn’t make me all that comfortable.
BJ
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C’mon – the guns r firin – send in the Kiwi’s…yeehah!
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I think that the United Nations will know a hel! of a lot more about the Thai situation than I do or for that matter all the commentators on this thread.
Which is why Keith has suggested that the NZ govt. persuade the UN to mediate in Thailands deadlock. As I think other responsible governments should. That’s not interfering.
I think that there is more interference on this post from the poor wretches from Troll-land who have misunderstood Kieths article and resorted to the lowest sort of tactic by personally attacking his family background.
Oh dear red bating went out with the bell bottom trousers!!!
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Drakula – If your reference was to me in your posting I believe you have missed the point. I was expressing my slight doubts about Keith personally and not his family background. One day he will demonstrate to my satisfaction that his proposal comes free of another agenda.
Come on, did red baiting go out with bell bottoms? Red and Blue baiting are the only opportunities we have in a free society in ensuring that checks and balances are maintained in our democracy.
I will go and re-read Keith’s piece.
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What was a comment on the original writer’s comments about a very complex situation (that is as I type deteriorating rapidly) has degenerated into personal attacks. New Zealand did not respond to the Thaksin government who had an appalling history of human rights abuses.I think Comrade Locke is looking at this as a red and black situation based on his family affiliations which hang about him. It is disappointing as a New Zealander living long term in this beautiful land to read a blog by a person of some repute ( which became avaliable intenationally) who lacked the integrity to research his subject and familiarize himself with the integral complexities of this situation. Yes I guess I can attack too…
I don’t know enough to be sure, but I AM sure that before we pull out the stops in terms of intervention on one side or the other we’d best be damned sure that we know the facts and have made some effort to educate people as to what those facts are. I find it a little disturbing that we’re choosing sides when most people here in NZ don’t know what the two sides really
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ELECTIONS IN THAILAND
Dear Ants; may I suggest that go on to the ‘Green Left Australia’ blog and check out their article on the Thailand.
One thing I know for sure is that the present government got in not by an election,but by a military coup backed up by the elite!!!!
“Comrade Locke” is not looking at this issue from a red and black perspective but very much from a human rights issue and it has absolutely nothing to do with his family background.
The issue is about elections in Thailand which is what I understand the Red Shirts want.
Nothing to do with Kieths family background so please play the ball and not the person!!!
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http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2905056.htm
I suggest you go to this website and hear a very good explanation
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I live in BKK, I have Thai citizenship, and I like the current government. No one can force me, and people like me, to let a group overthrow the government. The redshirts are thugs, retarded, idiots. If they came to power, everyone else would leave… and it wouldn’t matter to you, because you don’t live here. The government tried to negotiate. The reds terms were the government should dissolve. I don’t want those red leaders in power, did you see them on youtube?!? They are disgusting. I don’t want a leader whose motto is “burn it all down!”
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Plus, the police are finding weapons in the deserted redshirt camps. A very trusted forensic detective is finding them. We believe her. There are car bombs, guns, blades, grenades, and ammunition. Those people were not peaceful protesters.
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I have lived here and worked here for a very long time.I I care about what happens. I hope you read my last reply . Bangkok Kiwi
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