by frog
I can barely believe this. In an address to an Auckland tourism audience this morning, John Key is reported to have said:
The good news is that I was having dinner with Ngati Porou as opposed to their neighbouring iwi, which is Tuhoe, in which case I would have been dinner, which wouldn’t have been quite so attractive.
Tūhoe negotiator Tamati Kruger is not amused, describing it as “in poor taste”.
I would be less diplomatic. However Key intended it, it is far from funny. A reference to an iwi as cannibals is nasty, racist, and totally unbefitting any politician in this country, let alone the Prime Minister.
Shameful.
Published in Society & Culture | THE GAME by frog on Thu, May 13th, 2010
Tags: john key, Tamati Kruger, tuhoe
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
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Yes, everyone knows that Prime ministers taste revolting!!
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oh come on! he was clearly referring to the distaste in regards to the current negotiation breakdown, this is just petty
for the record, some iwi were, i believe tuhoe were as well
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Ko koe!
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Stupid Mr Key!
RadioLive should roast him this afternoon at 3 – he’s their guest, but Tamihere and Jackson looooooove Jonnie!
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He could have called them brown MOFO’s instead.
That is acceptable is it not?
As judged by the Harawira school of prose.
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So why would go off script to deliberately insult Tuhoe, given that the relationship was already near rock bottom? Just plain dumb.
Anyway, I doubt he’ll be going on holiday in Urewera National park anytime soon.
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That’d be fair, you think?
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Absolutely.
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For goodness’ sake, aren’t we just getting a little too PC and precious in this country? It was a joke, and I suspect it was probably quite well received by the audience, too.
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Will the PR Consultants spring into action ? Or will they judge his words to have increased his overall popularity among the general Kiwi population ?
I watch and listen with interest.
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And so what if the Auckland Tourism audience thought it was funny ? That’s just a reflection on their own level of awareness …
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No indeed, why holiday in Aotearoa when you can go to Hawaii?
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and if a Tuhoe had said it to another, they would all have had a good laugh. I think it’s funny. Most kiwis would, I suspect.
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“Yum yum” said Key, during the opening minute of his appearence on Radio Live, “It was just a joke – guffaw, guffaw!”
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“..describing it as “in poor taste”..”
heh..!
(involuntary..?..d’yareckon..?…or dry as dust..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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but he’s not, is he …
If I was Bronagh, I could make fun of part of ‘lil’ jonnies’ anatomy, couldn’t I (and oh, how we would laugh!)
but I’m not, am I sam.
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but I’m not, am I sam.
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So you don’t have sexy legs then fly?
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Talk of cannibalism doesn’t go down well with Tangata whenua or the post modernists of the left..
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/maori/news/article.cfm?c_id=252&objectid=10529547
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If billy-t had said it, everyone would have laughed too. If Hone had said it..etc.
But a white muthafukka says it.. OH NO.
Get over it. It’s funny.
The ‘bad taste’ reply is funny too.
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The history also involved some Ngāti Porou hāpu, siding with the Crown in their pursuit of Te Kooti and scorched earth policy in Te Urewera when Tūhoe offered him refuge.
Comments like Key’s open up some very old wounds. Either he didn’t know the history and in his ignorance attempted to be the funny man, or he did know the history and told the “joke” with reckless insensitivity or malicious intent.
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Toad I laugh at Nazi jokes, dingo jokes, gay jokes etc
In fact the worse the wound the more important it is to laugh, I’d say.
How else can one face this world unless you see the joke in it all?
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What a lot of people don’t know is that cannabalism has been practiced by every culture known, at some time or other.
It was practiced in renaissance Italy every time there was a famine, It was also practiced in England as late as 17th certury.
It was practiced on the Russian front and in virtually every war where starvation resulted.
Like war cannabalism is very barbarac practice and best fogotten about, even in jokes.
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Apparently this, with the idea that if something is “TRUE” then its OK for the Prime Minister to make a divisive joke about it by way of an ad hoc addition to a formal speech. (This formal speech, having been prepared and notified beforehand, to be made when he is, by virtue of his office, representing us all, (in this case, as a guest on a Marae, with the Media present).
With that “logic”, the mind boggles at what is therefore fare game for inclusion in any speech given by this man in any circumstances … as long as its “true”.
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Yes it’s a bit like green MPs calling people like me “beaters and bashers”
We should stop all this at once.
Don’t people understand that religion and culture are beyond criticism?
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As I see it, he meant that if he was having the dinner with the Tuhoe instead – he would have been getting a roasting … (a hard time, under angry fire – criticism …
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My now adult kids were brought up with the often repeated question “how would you like it if someone did that to you.” (I was good at “nagging”.)
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It seems the outrage train is fully loaded and departing platform one here.
I think we all know the real context of the joke, and it’s not canabalism. It’s obviously a quiet news week, and the words mountain and molehill spring to mind.
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A sense of humor would be a good thing to retain here.
Key did well with his principle audience, and making a big thing of it is a mistake.
respectfully
BJ
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I agree with BJ on this.
On the issue of cannibalism; it was widely practised throughout the Pacific (and elsewhere). I believe the taste of human flesh is meant to be similar to pork, which might explain why cannibalism was widespread
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Have to disagree – as time passes what was a ‘nigger’ joke yesterday becomes ‘innappropriate’ today.
Joke structure? eff me BJ you and I don’t want to become part of that joke do we?
I wouldn’t have Moggy for dinner – he just looks unhealthy and non -nutritive – no wonder the maori gave up the ‘long pig’ once such unhealthy specimens appear.
Any sign of that Party will cease scuttling across the floor and come sit with their brothers and sisters?
Doubt it – the Dollar has a big heart – not a very iwi concept – but then, I don’t have a beer belly to maintain.
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“The breakfast of champions is the competition”.
and
Business is “dog eat dog”.
It is common usage in many places I have been and reflects actual cannibalism even less than certain religious ceremonies reflect cannibalism…
BJ
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His joke was stupid.
At best, it’s a lame joke.
At worst it’s demeaning to a certain group who have looooooong memories.
His ‘gosh darn’ jocularity has dropped him right in it.
He’s made a dork of himself.
He’s said equally stupid things before, but none have grated like this one.
I’m so glad to see this getting exposure.
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Back when “Whities” was the breakfast of Cannibals…
Key didn’t mean that he’d be ‘metaphorically’ eaten.
His joke pointed straight at cannibalism.
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I disagree.
It made fun of the fact that he has made himself quite unpopular with Tuhoe. That’s all. Reading anything else into it is IMHO, an error.
I don’t LIKE him, but I have real reasons for that based in policy and the reasons for it, not nit-picks about the jokes he makes.
respectfully
BJ
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Bj – respectfully – I listened to Key of Radio Live , joshin’ and guffawin’ with Tamihere and Jackson, delivering his ‘yum yum’ line and trying to bury his cannibalism referrence with a smarmy and light’ ‘It was a joke, let’s move on’ and I see, or rather hear, it differently. Where you have a great talent for scientific thought, I believe I have an ear for innuendo and her twin, entendre. While I’ll not be able to make you hear his statement as I did, I’ll stick with my impressions and boo Key for his stupidity in this instance.
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Yea and Policy and Law flows straight from Opinion.
If the pendulum truly does swing full distance
This may not be a bad thing
Whoever you eatin’
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The idea that in pre european times Maori were cannibals doesn’t sit well with the notion of the “cultural Eden” or “uber-culture” of Maori, (which appears to be a cornerstone of Green Party policy).
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Greenfly Says:
“Where you have a great talent for scientific thought, I believe I have an ear for innuendo and her twin, entendre. While I’ll not be able to make you hear his statement as I did, I’ll stick with my impressions and boo Key for his stupidity in this instance.”
….
Your questioning BJ’s social intelligence. I note bj took the opposite tack to the Greens on the smacking issue ( a debate involving a lot of social judgment), in the end I would argue, the most comprehensive study supported bj’s stance. I’m wondering now how social intelligence relates to the propensity to be swept up by an ideology?
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Oh, the irony. My side; it is splitting!
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Key didn’t mean that at all!
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What rubbish, jh. It’s not an “idea” that cannibalism historically existed in New Zealand, it is a fact. But that doesn’t make the comment acceptable.
Say, in a year or so, Britain and Germany end up in a bitter dispute over something to do with Europe. And David Cameron makes a “joke” reference, clearly in relation to the dispute, to Germany and concentration camps.
Would that be okay by your standards?
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I hope one day to meet our Prime Minister, the bed-wetter.
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Our language is full of references to eating:
“You’ll get roasted if …”
“You made a real meal of that …”
“Dog eat dog”
and so on. Even if Key was deliberately referring to historical cannibalism (as opposed to using a very common phrase which basically means he is deeply unpopular with Tuhoe), what is so wrong with what he said? After all, he claimed he was going to be the one on the menu. Doesn’t this literally imply he is weak and going to be eaten by a much stronger group of people?
There is no need to be ashamed of the fact that ones ancestors were strong warriors who happened to eat their enemies … in fact I personally reckon its something to be proud of (though I personally don’t have a taste for human flesh … puaka is good enough for me).
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What rubbish, jh. It’s not an “idea” that cannibalism historically existed in New Zealand, it is a fact. But that doesn’t make the comment acceptable.
Say, in a year or so, Britain and Germany end up in a bitter dispute over something to do with Europe. And David Cameron makes a “joke” reference, clearly in relation to the dispute, to Germany and concentration camps.
Would that be okay by your standards?
………..
It would be o.k. if the “Germans” were the Nazis.
What I’m saying is that there is a projection of old Maori culture to the present by post modernists (minus it’s warts), and Maori are considered to have a superior culture which makes it appropriate that they manage (eg) foreshore and seabed, but under Te Tirriti, the whole country on a “co management basis” where, what we take to be modern democracy (one person one vote) is a “limited concept of conservative Pākehā”.
http://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/more-sophisticated-era-under-te-tiriti-o-waitangi
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And calling him “Captain Beaky” is just plain mean.
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Food metaphors litter our language so much that it is hard to avoid them and they are so entrenched we do not even recognise their origins..
Done like a dinner, got a roasting, grilled for hours, he was toast, in hot water, bad taste in the mouth, two impossible things before breakfast, I butchered him, I felt gutted, a cannibal feast, cooked his goose, they were turning happily on their spits, turkeys don’t look forward to Christmas, – and those are straight off the top of my head. I suppose some of them are in bad taste and might even turn some stomachs, or stick in the craw.
IF you don’t like it, get stuffed.
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He raised the spectre of their cannibal past.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Now he is toast with Tuhoe.
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Given the fact that every nation at one time ate his fellow man can be linked to the joke of being another’s tucker.I can imagine a family sitting in a circle, looking into a bucket of fast-fried food and a little kid asking for the deep-fried flack jacket piece (assuming John Key was in his American uniform when he was quartered and cooked).
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Which is hardly surprising, given the historical rivalry between Ngāti Porou and Tūhoe, and that the Crown recruited many of the mercenaries it used to invade Tūhoe from Ngāti Porou.
I’m starting to think he probably didn’t mean to offend in telling the “joke” – just that he is pig ignorant of history.
Which makes it all the worse, give that it appears it was Key who unilaterally stomped on the settlement that had already been given the nod by Treaty Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson, who would no doubt have been acquainted with the history of the grievance.
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Good on John Key for taking National Parks off the menu.
The current status of national parks should not be meddled with.
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Thank goodness Keys ‘cannibals at my table’ joke was in-house. Imagine if the BBC got hold of it!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8681655.stm
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I note ‘tourism’ is to get a massive cash injection in the coming budget.
Perhaps people will flock here to see our quaint cannibal tribes – you know, the ones who tried to roast the Prime Minister.
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If he’s “toast” with the Tuhoe then why is he willing to go back to the table with talks?, he could just say get stuffed and no one would care sufficiently other than the Maori Party and a few left wing commentators
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This summary is about right.
http://pundit.co.nz/content/is-keys-cannibal-gag-his-shrek-moment
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samiam
Posted May 14, 2010 at 10:26 AM
Aside from the joke..
Good on John Key for taking National Parks off the menu.
The current status of national parks should not be meddled with.
….
Are the greens for or agianst giving / returning National Parks back to iwi (remember ti tiritti!)
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One for you jh, from a Standard commenter.
Footer
14 May 2010 at 10:46 am
so that’s what the Khmer Rouge were up to – “any publicity is good publicity”.
makes sense now
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Send it to BBC? Good idea. How about the Herald or Dom Post for starters?
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Now that’s a point worth exploring. Wonder what minerals there may be under Urewera National Park.
Maybe Gerry’s been whispering in John’s ear and suggested the could be too much there to dig up to afford giving it back to Tūhoe.
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John Key- David Brent! is there a difference anymore? They’re both such spectacular failures! Cringe NZ !you deserve his every gaffe after all you voted for this fuckwit! Just lovin the roasting in the international press and kiwis think it’s good value. What a thuck lot!
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Toad Says:
Now that’s a point worth exploring. Wonder what minerals there may be under Urewera National Park.
Maybe Gerry’s been whispering in John’s ear and suggested the could be too much there to dig up to afford giving it back to Tūhoe.
…..
“DUNCAN I just want to look at mining if we can, I mean that 2004 Foreshore and Seabed law that Labour brought in, basically vested minerals in the Crown. If you are entirely going to repeal, why don’t you effectively look at that area because Maori would like minerals wouldn’t they, they would like to look at those minerals, yet if you repeal you want to hold on to the right that the Crown owns the minerals don’t you?
CHRIS Well there are two classes of minerals I think we have to talk about, because pre 2004 petroleum had been nationalised, in fact was nationalised by the Labour government in 1937, silver and gold and uranium have always been nationalised minerals, so then there are the other minerals, you’re quite right that that is an issue that I imagine folk are going to want to raise with me, and I’m listening to what they say, and I’m also talking with Gerry Brownlee about that issue.
DUNCAN So are you effectively saying here this morning that you perhaps are willing to compromise around that minerals issue because it’s quite important to Maori, well certainly the Maori I’ve spoken to.
CHRIS Oh I think the socalled traditional reserved ones, Gerry’s already said are off the table, I’m prepared to hear what folk have to say in the course of my hui and public meetings, and then I’ll report back to the Cabinet.
DUNCAN And if they say to you that we would like those select minerals taken out of any repeal, what do you say to that?
CHRIS Oh as I say I’m about to embark on a number of hui, and in public meetings and then I’ll be reporting back to Cabinet, and then I’ll be able to report to you in late May.
DUNCAN So you’re not ruling out a possible compromise there are you, because right now as we look at your proposal it basically repeals and holds on to that, so you’re not ruling out a compromise with iwi after this series of hui?
CHRIS Oh I’m saying that I can rule out petroleum, uranium, silver and gold, I’m prepared to listen to other people on those other minerals. ”
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1004/S00097.htm
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Try again:
Are the greens for or against giving / returning National Parks back to iwi (remember ti tiritti!)
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Kiaora
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I think I heard the Tuhoe negotiator say that they weren’t so much worried about the comment (which was only a gaff because Maori were cannibals in relatively recent history), but were more concerned about the park. It could have been on the BBC where he was (mis)named as Te Ur.. Flavel the Maori Party MP.
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jh – what is
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A shoddy document to trick the natives whilst we steal their land by other means…
If only their cannon could’ve fired uphill eh…eh?
Darn ingeni…ingreni…cunning them maori eh?
Hey you Greens – JH wants an answer… hoho haha
There’s so much room for him to put one too!
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Mark
I trust you realise that the sign off was not meant to be a deliberate statement of abuse (as in Get Stuffed) but was another example of a food metaphor.
The origin of the phrase is that you will be stuffed like the turkey and then roasted.
If you didn’t recognise that it only furthers my argument.
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well I didn’t Owen – I read so much on the glowing screen than I am guilty of scanning sometimes – no I thought the food metaphor was rather good (hence the herbs and spices link) – only sought to extend it – and further your arguement by all means – it seems to me there are a lot of voices need hearing on these issues!
regards Mark
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Come on if Tuhoe was honest 90% of them would have liked to see his head on a plate after he announced the treaty offer. Well said John
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“If” Tuhoe were honest?
You’re as careless with your words as Keys is.
Keys’s ‘treaty offer’ and behaviour surrounding the negotiations was an insult to Tuhoe.
They are known as ‘The Children of the Mist’.
Nga Hua Heihei, opportunity. Hope they don’t.
(Kohu that is)
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Shylock!
That makes me laugh!
So does, “self defecating humour’
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Greenfly,
What is wrong with what Sika55 said? I wouldn’t mind seeing Key’s head on a plate either. You are far too sensitive, and read meanings into statements which are simply not there.
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Samiuela,
I love to read meanings into statements! It’s my favourite thing to do. Which meaning-that-wasn’t-there are you referring to?
Slka55 (Sika – oh deer!) said,
“Come on if Tuhoe was honest 90% of them would have liked to see his head on a plate after he announced the treaty offer. ”
Do you take that literally? If so, aren’t you reading in meaning that isn’t there? Would you like to have Keys’s severed head brought to your table (Rare, medium or well done M’am?)
Silka55 goes on, “Well said John”, and I have to assume you echo the thought, so I can ask you, what was well said?
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Smart alec.
That’s him.
Key.
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*correction
Keys.
John Keys.
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Greenfly,
I don’t mind how you bring Key’s head to me; just make sure it doesn’t come to life again the way Douglas (and Goff for that matter) did.
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Roger Douglas is alive!!!
If it’s not true, samuiela, you’re cruel to play with my emotions like that!
Douglas!
Not dead!
Next you’ll be saying Christine Rankin still stalks the earth, fangs bared. Some saw a plunging neckline – I could only think of plunging something into it!
You know that when I do bring you the head of John the Fatuous,
it’ll still be smiling and the eyes will still be dead.
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” Some saw a plunging neckline – I could only think of plunging something into it! ”
That’s a great example of what we are talking about here greenfly – well picked up!
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Tamati Kruger is a capable man and worth watching – The Nation – now.
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Peter Dunne’s on now.
Looks like he’s sitting on the tax wedge.
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Tamati Kruger is on One now.
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Chris Trotter: Open Letter to the National Party
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/05/open-letter-to-national-party.html
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Illuminating!
http://www.thestandard.org.nz/key-a-dim-bulb/
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An international object of ridicule ‘fly, even in the US, who have an appalling record on indigenous rights.
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What are the leaders of other countries going to think when they next meet with Kannibal Key?
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/asia/new-zealand/2010/05/16/256755/New-Zealand.htm
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He only eats poor people though, fly.
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