by frog
Here is something interesting to think about – a press release from the Cuban Embassy about their Health System.
What Cuba Can Teach Us About Health Care
Just a morning’s boat ride from the tip of Florida is a place where medical costs are low and doctors plentiful. It’s Cuba – and Stanford University physician Paul Drain says it’s time for the United States to pay attention to our neighbor’s shoestring success.
Despite a 50-year trade embargo by the United States and a post-Soviet collapse in international support, the impoverished nation has developed a world-class health care system. Average life expectancy is 77.5 years, compared to 78.1 years in the United States, and infant and child mortality rates match or beat our own. There’s one doctor for every 170 people, more than twice the per-capita U.S. average.
Not everything is perfect in Cuba. There are shortages of medicines, and the best care is reserved for elites. But it’s still a powerful feat. “In Cuba, a little over $300 per person is spent on health care each year. In the U.S., we’re spending over $7,000 per person,” said Drain, co-author of Caring for the World and an essay published April 29 in Science. “They’re able to achieve great health outcomes on a modest budget.”
With Fidel Castro’s reign as Cuba’s leader ending two years ago, relations with the United States have thawed. President Obama eased restrictions on travel to Cuba last year, and the oft-introduced Free Trade With Cuba Act finally has a chance of passing Congress. Drain would like the Institutes of Medicine to conduct a full study of the island nation’s success.
“There are so many lessons we might be able to learn from Cuba’s health care and medical education system, but we don’t know too much about it,” said Drain.
Wired.com: How does Cuba keep health care costs so low?
Paul Drain: Partly by keeping physicians’ salaries low. Obviously, given the government they have, they can do that. But they also emphasize primary care and preventive care, addressing diseases and problems before they become major. It’s a very different approach to health care.
In the United States, we essentially do the opposite. We treat diseases when they occur. We’re not very good at the preventive component, which causes the costs of our health system to be much higher.
Wired.com: What are the origins of Cuba’s approach?
Drain: Starting in 1964, they encouraged all medical school graduates to do at least two years of service in a rural area. That program became so popular that by the mid-1970s, almost all new physicians were doing rural service. From there, almost all medical graduates were channeled into a three-year family medicine residency. That’s where they do clinical training, making the transition to full doctor from medical student.
Almost all their residents do family medicine. They focus on primary care for all ages. Once everybody learns primary care, about 35 percent go on and specialize. It’s quite the opposite of what we have here.
Wired.com: How so?
Drain: Our medical students choose what they want to do. Only about 7 or 8 percent go into family medicine, which is our primary care system. In Cuba, everyone becomes a primary care doctor. They learn to prevent diseases.
Cuba also provides very good access. In the mid-1980s, they created a system of neighborhood doctors’ clinics. One doctor is responsible for a catchment area of a couple of city blocks. They get to know their patients well. If somebody has a problem, they can see the doctor in the clinic that day.
Wired.com: Could the U.S. government ever mandate a system like that?
Drain: It would be a big leap, but there are smaller steps that could be taken. We’re the only developed country without universal access to a nationalized health care system. Other countries have seen health care as a basic right and insured everybody. Everyone gets primary care. That would be a first step.
I saw someone in my clinic yesterday who hadn’t seen a doctor in 10 years. Her blood pressure was through the roof, and it’s probably been like that for a decade. She’s at tremendous risk for having a stroke or heart problems. If she’d seen somebody back when this started, it could have been controlled. But because of her high blood pressure, who knows what her future medical bills will be like.
If she were in the Cuban system, she would have had a visit scheduled yearly for the last 10 years. If she hadn’t shown up, someone would have gone to her home to see if she was OK. Blood pressure is an easy thing to check. It would have been controlled.
Wired.com: One problem in the United States is the shortage of doctors. How does Cuba train physicians?
Drain: Education is paid by the government, so students don’t have debt. In the United States, medical students come out $200,000 or $300,000 in the hole, which deters them from going into primary care. Cuban doctors are making a fraction of what we make in the U.S., but most Cubans aren’t going into medicine to earn money. They’re going into it to treat people in their communities.
In 1999, Cuba created a school of medicine for Latin America. They bring students in, train them for six years, give them room and board and a stipend. Afterward the students are required to go home and practice in poorer communities. It’s a remarkable program, with 10,000 students now from 33 countries, and an interesting model for developing health care workers.
Wired.com: Do President Obama’s health reforms move the United States toward what’s seen in Cuba?
Drain: What we’re passing is starting to move us in a better direction. I’m an advocate for universal health care, and there’s still a long way to go. But I think we’ll eventually catch up to our western counterparts, and realize that we’re the only country not providing full equity in terms of accessing health care, and that’s reflected in health outcomes. When you compare us against most developed countries, we’re near the bottom in most health indicators. Our life expectancy isn’t as good, our infant mortality rates are higher, and we’re spending twice as much money.
You can read the original here.
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Published in Health & Wellbeing by frog on Fri, May 7th, 2010
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Yes, nothing like believing what an authoritarian one-party state that ruthlessly suppresses free speech says about health outcomes. It was abundantly clear in 1989 that the puffed up statistics and potemkin hospitals shown off by the Soviet bloc satellites were tragic lies. North Korea has showcase hospitals too and lies about its health statistics as well.
How does anyone know what infant mortality is, or life expectancy? How wilfully blind can you be to accept what a dictatorship says about its own results?
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LS, how do you explain that somehow Cuba has so many doctors they are able to trade them with Venezuela for oil, and offer 1000 of them in the wake of Katrina?
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They offer this not in support of Cuba’s methods, but to make the point that Cuba does it “without access to the greenest and most fuel-efficient technology”, meaning that it should be easier for other countries to do much better.
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Gee – and I can’t even get a Doctor here in the city of Bugtussle
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haha libertyscott still think its 1988 huh? Cuba has been world renowned for its healthcare system for years but you throw it in the same boat as North Korea? They are chalk and cheese really. Id watch Michael Moores, Sicko if you want a good laugh at the U.S. healthcare system and a graphic example of how wrong you are about Cuba.
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so why are they in the poo financially now? Can it be that their borrowing debt has made it that way?
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Cuba may be an “authoritarian one-party state” as Libertyscott states but they are people focused rather than profit focused. I would also recommend the documentary “The Power of Community” that describes the transition to sustainable farming after Cuba lost access to cheap Soviet oil in the early 1990s.
LS lambasted Castro but the US supported regime he replaced was far worse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista
I always find it interesting how propaganda can supplant real history.
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What on earth does Batista have to do with anything sprout?
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StephenR-Read my comment. Castro is often demonised, but people forget the regime he replaced which was far worse. The US has a history of supporting corrupt governments and have no regard for the fate of the people under them. The story of Grenada is worth studying if you want a relatively recent example of American imperialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada. Niall Furguson’s “Colossus” is an excellent description of the realities of the American Empire, too.
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sprout, I was just trying to figure out how on earth your comments address LS’s comment and questions. I know some people see criticism of the US/Cuba as a proxy for an argument about the benefits of capitalism/socialism/US current or historic foreign policy but seems unnecessary and annoys the hell out of me.
How do you reconcile your statement “people focused rather than profit focused.” with frog’s “the best care is reserved for elites.”?
In any case I think LS has a point. Emphasising primary care may well be just great, but I’d be hesitant to use Cuba as an example.
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They combine a massive plunket system for a good healthy start to life and good preventative measures, with full scholarships for all doctors, competing compulsary health insurance provided by SOEs with the government picking up the tab of the unemployed, a doctor answers your call when you dial 111, they can send out three ambulances; one with a doctor, one with paramedics who treat you on site, one with paramedics that rush you to the hospital and most of the hospitals are smaller specialist hospitals that the ambulance will take you straight to – depending on your ailment…
All up it is a pretty fantastic system and while they spend about 3% more of their GDP on it, they get amazing results – we should blatantly copy it…
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StephenR-Rimu, Valis & Jimmy addressed LS’s concern regarding factual accuracy and I attempted to address LS’s emotionally charged reasoning. I have never claimed any particular political system has the moral high ground but get really frustrated when people have no sense of prospective because of their ignorance of the historical facts and blind acceptance of right wing propoganda. To compare North Korea with Cuba was illogical and any number of independent sources can support the success of Cuba’s health system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba
While the so called elite may get better health care in Cuba, those who are the most disadvantaged will still be far better off in Cuba than the US.
…and StephenR, do read Naill Ferguson’s book!
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The hard reality is that Cuba achieves far better health care value for the amount of money which is spent. If Cuba spent $7000 per person (as the U.S. does) instead of the $300 it does, imagine what could be achieved (actually thats an interesting question, does the last 10% improvement in health care services cost as much as the first 90%?)
The right don’t want to know this, because the sort of privatised health care systems they support are far less efficient in terms of delivering services for a given amount of money.
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Ive got a book that says when per-capita healcare spending rises above US$1600 it no longer tends to increase life expectancy (most end up around 80).
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Time I did an in depth cigar-smoking tour obviously – companero’s? Paula? Moggy? – Sorry Simon, plane’s full, you and Paul can keep the lights on at Bellamy’s eh?.
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IT ALL GOES THROUGH YOUR GNASHERS
Sprout is absolutely right, it’s absurd to compare Cuba with North Korea they have totally different cultures and temperaments.
I am reading a biography on Gabrial Marquez who was working for the Presna Latina in Cuba after the revolution (new years day 1958) and there he noted that there was a marked difference in attitude the Latins had to the Russian sectarian communists.
The Cubans were more innovative and pragmatical and large bureaucracies don’t go with their temperament. So I think that their success in their medical and educational system is largely trial an error.
Modern socialism (not ancient Sparta) as a political system has only been around for 90 years so sure there are going to be some errors, but how many wars were faught under capitalism? And how many injustices? And how many slaves?
Isn’t it great to hear that doctors are going into the profession to cure people not for the money!!!!
You can’t say that about the New Zealand dental profession that is almost completely privatized and doesn’t seem to be inclusive of the healthe scheme at all.
I would like to know if Cuba’s dental scheme is inclusive with it’s health scheme.
After all it all goes through your Gnashers!!!
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What concerns me is that you seem to swallow hook line and sinker information from a dictatorship that controls information with an iron fist.
Do you believe China when it sings its own praises, did you believe Pinochet, Ferdinand Marcos, Saddam Hussein? Do you believe Israel?
So why believe Cuba, or is it just an inconvenient truth that those who speak up against what the regime says don’t exactly get their views published in Granma, or have a life of peace and tranquility?
Rimu: Venezuela isn’t a great model for transparency either, and you have no clue as to the standards of Cuba’s doctors. Again you’re trusting what governments say to the wider world.
The UN Human Development Index sources its statistics from UN MEMBER STATES. Incredibly reliable that is I am sure you can imagine, especially coming from one-party states with no freedom of speech.
Jimmy: Yes, well diverted. Ignore Cuba’s dictatorship and how valid its data might be by pointing at a quasi-comedy film by an American multi-millionaire. Damning Cuba does not mean I am praising the US, but I haven’t noticed the flood of Americans wanting to live in Cuba, strange that.
Sprout: People focused? Yep nothing tells me someone else is focused on me like telling me to toe the line of the government and threaten me with prison or a mental hospital if I oppose it. Ahh ends justify the means do they? Yes Batista was worse. So what? Mao was worse than the current Chinese regime, but it doesn’t mean I believe the Chinese government’s own social stats now. A dictatorship replaced with a dictatorship.
You are all so quick to jump on your tribal instinct to embrace a Marxist-Leninist authoritarian one party state which sticks two fingers at the US. Why? Is it because it says it is socialist? Is it because you’re tribally anti US? What does it say about your commitment to human rights in Cuba, which has a considerable record of political imprisonment, torture, execution and mistreatment of psychiatric patients (oh and being against the regime can mean you are diagnosed as mentally ill).
I am sure you can find many examples in the world of different universal health care regimes that work rather well. Cuba may be good or it may be a disaster. The point is you don’t know, and you’re incredibly naive to believe information sourced or filtered through a dictatorship.
For example, read Katherine Hirschfeld’s critique. Family doctors are required to keep records of patients’ “political integration”, for example.
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Libertyscott- I think the point being made was that for all that is not good about Cuba, and I don’t disagree with some of what you say, they do manage to have a very cost effective health system compared to the US. Cuba is not a closed nation like Korea and there have been many independent commentators who have been there and reviewed their health system:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/review/review_summer_02/677cuba.html
http://www.saludthefilm.net/ns/cuba-health-system-resources.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2608408/
http://www.finlay-online.com/finlayinstitute/healthandhealth.htm
I accept that I have never personally visited Cuba but judging by the intense feelings you express, Libertyscott, I guess you have had a closer encounter than I have. The certainty you feel about the extreme nature of the restrictions on personal freedoms do seem at odds with the New Zealand documentaries and tourist accounts of the country:
http://library.thinkquest.org/18355/freedom_in_cuba.html
Perhaps you can share your first hand experiences or your key sources of information?
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It is rather damning, Hirschfeld went herself to Cuba and found out much, such as no right to privacy, the political role of the family doctor (who has a role to check how compliant you are), the fear of anyone surveyed because they believe the government would get anything and trace it back to them. The incentives on doctors to perform abortions on foetuses who are thought to have lower rates of life expectancy, to keep the infant mortality stats high – with the patient having no choice. Her key question was whether the positive reports are due to the political environment, which scares people into keeping quiet about what is bad, and singing the praises of the system and therefore the government, because you don’t know who you can trust. Complaining about what would be malpractice is actively discouraged, so there is no accountability for failure (or reporting of it).
I would never disagree about the cost problems in the US, they are horrendous and blame can be pointed in many directions. I hold no banner for the US as a role model. I would strongly support cases where developing countries can have health care systems that are fit for purpose, affordable and provide appropriate care given the national GDP.
Yes Cuba is no North Korea, but my point was really that the whole communist bloc engaged in massive fabrication of statistics for decades, it was part of their culture. Cuba was part of that. Take China, there is a lot of freedom of speech if you don’t want to talk about anything to do with the government. Cuba is similar.
However, healthcare IS about the government, it is a shining light that Cuba exports in terms of getting UN and foreign aid work to send its medical professionals overseas. If the truth were that things are not what they say, then all of that would collapse.
The political regime makes it extraordinarily difficult to know the truth, and i fear too many want the positive story to make a serious critique about how genuine it is.
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Before we go all doe eyed about Cuba let’s consider their human rights violations. Lets be honest this blog wouldn’t exist there.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba
I do accept they have a hugely efficient health care system. but I wouldn’t want to live there.
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Cuba isn’t a Ann Rand Libertarian Society so quite obviously is immoral and lies about every last detail and as all the other Governments in the world are not Ann Rand Libertarian Socities either, they must all be lying too because they are also immoral… Or something like that…
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I love the comment in the article that doctors salaries are kept low. That is an understatement! A doctor gets paid $450 moneda nacionals (Cuban pesos)/month or the equivalent of $NZ40/month. This in a country where a 2L bottle of coke costs $NZ5.
Cuban nationals will tell you how bad their healthcare system is, that there is no money for medicines, huge waiting lists. I could go on. Anyone who puts the Cuban healthcare system as a model to be copied is seriously delusional.
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Libertyscott-My own links were also critical of Cuba, and Frog’s original post also recognised the faults in their systems, but what I am mainly concerned about is the fanatical refusal to accept that we can learn anything from such countries. No country or political system is perfect and some are even less perfect than others and on the other hand no country is totally evil either. If you look at any country with an open mind there are always things that can be learnt from them, but when people are so vehemently opposed to even considering that, it seems a little like McCarthyism to me.
I think that the Cuban idea of financially supporting students through medical school makes a lot of sense and the idea that money will buy the best physicians is flawed. When we struggle to find GPs for our rural communities, including community health as part of a career pathway also makes sense. Permanent staff are incensed that part-time locums get paid more than them and are often provided with extra perks to attract them to the positions. In talking to local doctors and specialists they told me that if they had better working conditions and more respect from their employing DHBs they could easily tolerate less remuneration.
I wouldn’t want to adopt the negative aspects of the Cuban health system but for healths sake, why can’t we consider the positive?
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Cuba has concentration camps for the specific purpose of keeping HIV positive people locked away.They are starved beaten and treated like scum.No suprise really as Castros regime is virilently anti homosexual and treats them akin to how Jews were in Hitlers Germany with many being executed.Two HIV positive students sent by the ANC lead government in South Africa to train in Cubas “marvelous system” were hauled out of their dorm rooms at 2am and detained and starved for 5 days.
[frog: 25 comments before Godwin's Law strikes. I guess it had to happen.]
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@James
Do try to keep up. Same sex sexual relations were legalised in Cuba in 1979 – several years before New Zealand – although same sex relationships are still not recognised in law there.
And the compulsory quarantine of HIV patients in sanatorios ended in 1989.
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James.
You are also incorrect about quarantined patients being treated poorly. The quarantine system was widely studied and visited by overseas experts (who wanted to see how effective the policy was). Patients were well cared for, for free.
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well! I’d rather have a good cigar and a lie down than the snoopy bossy (don’t try) panadol in 4 hours death watch ya get heah!
Their Concentration Camps weren’t much help to the Beard.
We all sat around and thought of sad things to say.
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Doctor’s salaries are only half the story, though, or probably even below half of the cost of healthcare. Pretty much all the capitalist world is at the mercy of pharmaceutical cartels – and the only thing healthy about this is their profits.
As the neoliberal agenda so wisely favoured having pretty much all research done by the private sector, it’s not wonder that we are now all subject to ongoing blackmail. They invent new cures, they let everyone know about it, and desperate patient all over the world will force healthcare providers to fork out whatever ransom is demanded. I believe the only way out here is state funded research with all outcome being in the public domain, ideally worldwide. This would bring health care cost down significantly and sustainably.
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“[frog: 25 comments before Godwin's Law strikes. I guess it had to happen.]”
The comparison is accurate…and who gives a shit about Godwins law?
Two dupes write…
@James
“Do try to keep up. Same sex sexual relations were legalised in Cuba in 1979 – several years before New Zealand – although same sex relationships are still not recognised in law there.
“And the compulsory quarantine of HIV patients in sanatorios ended in 1989.”
“James.
You are also incorrect about quarantined patients being treated poorly. The quarantine system was widely studied and visited by overseas experts (who wanted to see how effective the policy was). Patients were well cared for, for free.”
Righttttt! And these overseas experts came in unannounced without the knowledge of the Cuban state and had full access to the system and the people to make these studies did they? Are you guys really that dumb? Seriously….how do get through a day without suffering serious mishap or worse?
The refugees from the workers paradise who wash up on old doors and surfboards in Miami are only doing so to spread the word of the wonder of Cubas medical system huh?
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James,
Neither Toad or myself said Cuba was a worker’s paradise (nor did I say that the quarantining of HIV patients was effective; I said that people studied it to see how effective (or not) it was.
We were just correcting your factual inaccuracies about Cuba’s health care system. Its not possible to have reasoned debate when one side decides to make up the facts to suit their argument. You’re especially bad when it comes to fabricating facts to suit your political ideology.
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Joke One “Cuba has a wonderful health system, and education system and has great art. Cuba has only three problems – Breakfast, lunch and dinner.”
Joke Two: “My husband is a Doctor but he has delusions of grandeur. He wants to drive a taxi.”
Note: Taxi drivers have access to US dollars.
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Owen, my favourite lampooning of the Cuban Health system can be found here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C97P1vU3VI
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“Challenges include relatively low pay of doctors (physicians are paid only 15 dollars a month[6]), poor facilities, poor provision of equipment, and frequent absence of essential drugs.[7] Cubans often rely on sociolismo and corruption.[8][9]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba
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“To stem the tide of defections, the Cuban government has sought to keep doctors under constant guard. Cuban “minders,” most commonly police and intelligence agents, severely restrict doctors’ freedom of movement. Traveling outside of one‘s assigned area is strictly prohibited. In Venezuela, according to The Lancet, doctors are forbidden to engage in any personal contact with natives, let alone journalists or diplomats, and must adhere to a 6pm daily curfew. Those who complain about any aspect of the program open themselves up to threats of being sent back to Cuba — itself a devastating commentary on the political state of the country. ”
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=27458
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I am not too familiar with the French system but the Singapore system works splendidly and has all the right incentives.
It’s a voucher system. The state requires you to sign up to a state insurance plan and then you can spend the funds at competing private and public providers and can chose the level of service and comfort.
If you look after yourself while you are young you have a bigger fund to provide for the illnesses of old age etc.
They pay well enough that they do not lose doctors and nurses to the US – and certainly not to NZ.
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Owen,
How does the Singapore system deal with people who simply have bad luck with their health (accidents, chronic diseases etc)? Does the state insurance plan continue to cover the possibly large and ongoing expenses? I know that in many countries, once you have a few blots on your medical history it screws up any chance of getting affordable health insurance, and you are left to fend for yourself.
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As State funded system is guarantees to treat emergencies and accidents just as ours does.
This basic provision is backed up by the personal account. But even when you are being treated for an emergency you can chose where to be treated and what level of service and this is recorded against your account. It was some years ago when I looked at the system and it might have changed at the margin but these are the basic principles.
One of the measures of the system is that people from all over Asia gravitate to Singapore for its high quality care – and pay for it of course.
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I’ve been to Cuba many times as a canadian, I’ve been through their health care system and Libertyscott knows nothing but blatent propaghanda.
I stayed in Cuba for 3 years and wished I never had to come back to the “1st world BS” Canada and the US so fondly refer to as freedom.
Sorry I think the cuban people are more free in many ways.
They are well educated, worldly, allowed to travel BTW!!!
I had a Cuban family come here to Canada to visit.
Yes they are poor, but when a pair of Nike Shoes sold at a Cuban citizen’s store sells for 2.50 like c’mon. they don’t have it so bad.
I never felt restricted by the government, just from the cruel inhumane embargo the US placed on the country.. The people happy friendly, they aren’t stupid, and hell they even vote and most have served positions in office. I think MOST american’s are fed too many lies and BS about this great albeit poor country..
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Robert Menard’s comments make my blood boil. “Sorry I think the cuban people are more free in many ways.” Are you serious? They have only been allowed mobile phones for two years. They are not able to access the internet, unless they have connections in the Communist Party, or require it for work (and even then it is generally dial up speed). They are only allowed to vote for the Communist Party. They do not have access to cable television, so their TV is limited to that provided by the government. They have no access to free media, only the propaganda spouted forth from the Communist Party via Granma. Travel restrictions have only been relaxed in the past two years, to allow Cubans to travel abroad without a permit. And let’s not forget the complete lack of economic freedom for Cubans. “They don’t have it so bad”. Umm, yes they do.
One simple example to prove my point: We did a sunset boat trip in Maria la Gorda on the western coast. Our Cuban tour guide was not allowed to come with us for fear that he would hijack the boat and head to Mexico. That is not freedom.
It’s ironic that people like Robert are able to voice their opinions in our country (which I have no issues with), but if I was to voice my opinion in the country he clearly loves, I would be locked up.
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Spider_Pig,
Things are not always black and white or good versus evil. This thread is about Cuba’s health care system. Why is it not possible to pick and copy the things each country is good at, and ignore the things they are not so good at? Despite your claims in your initial post, there is a lot of independent evidence which highlights the good things which Cuba achieves in health care on a very limited budget. Why not emulate what Cuba is strong at, and combine it with the things that other countries are stronger at?
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My wife (a doctor) agrees that their health statistics are good for a third world country. The question you have to ask is why are they third world? And the answer is clear: COMMUNISM.
It doesn’t work. Never has. Never will. The 100,000,000+ deaths in the 20th century as a direct result of communism is proof enough.
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Spider_Pig,
You ask why Cuba is a poor country? Well we’ll neglect the US embargo for the time being, and just look at some neighbouring countries. The two closest are Haiti and Jamaica. According to the CIA world fact book (2009 estimates; the World Bank and IMF didn’t list figures for Cuba), the GDP of these countries are:
Cuba: $9700
Jamaica: $8200
Haiti: $1300
(Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita )
Now I appreciate its difficult to compare countries in such a simple way; every country has different natural resources and so on. Never-the-less, I think these figures are informative, and indicate that Cuba is not doing so bad in comparison with its neighbours. Indeed, on a global comparison of GDP per person, Cuba comes out at number 86 out of 194 in the CIA’s table, and just below the world average (which is skewed by some of the wealthy nations at the top of the table).
So what is your point? … the statistics don’t back up your argument very well; it seems you just dislike communism.
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Jamaica is a third world country. It has far more poverty and starvation and child death then Cuba.. Their GDP is very similar to Cuba’s.. Cuba is a third world nation not because of communism, it’s because it has little in the way of natural resources. That being said I would rather live in Cuba then Jamaica, at least I know I have a country that will ensure I will be treated when sick, make sure I am educated, and always have a roof over my head and food on the table.
Cuba can boast it has no homeless unless they WANT to be homeless
It’s the only country that can backup the fact that no child needs to go to bed hungry,.
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Robert,
Thats exactly the point I was trying to make. Indeed Cuba’s GDP is higher than Jamaica’s despite a US embargo and limited natural resources (I believe Jamaica has large bauxite reserves). Spider_Pig would have us believe all Cuba’s economic problems originate because of its form of government; something which a simple comparison of neighbouring non-communist nations disproves.
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The only issue I’ve got with the Cuban health system is that medical pros aren’t free to leave the country. Along with my wife and kids I’ve enjoyed the benefits of OE, why shouldn’t they? Some will end up working in the States, saving America the cost of a proper education system, but most will return to Cuba with extra skills. A few years of country GP service is a medest price to pay for med. school. Vivo El Jefe!
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All Cubans can apply for a passport and Visa, I have had cuban friends come to Canada for a visit, Most leave when they see how costly it is to live, and how it’s every man women and child for themselves. Cuba sends more doctors to third world countries then the entire World Health organization.
The main limiting factor in them traveling is the embargo, and how hard it is to pay for things off the Island
Most Cubans make about 65 bucks a month
That goes a long way in a government subsidized store.
That being said, anywhere else in the world is pretty pricey..
I paid for the air fare, and helped them out when this cuban family I became friends with wanted to see Canada, when they found out we had to pay so much for food, that education and HOUSING cost money, well lets just say they left the canada with a bad taste in their mouths.
Not all Cubans are defectors, Many love their country. Cuba isn’t a true communist society it’s actually more a grassroots democracy with socialist underpinnings.. It’s just a shame Raoul is destroying the country with poorly thought out reforms.
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If we were to focus on the actual interview in the post, Paul Drain merely praises several key aspects of the Cuban Health system, and he does not equate this to praise for socialism or for authoritarianism, nor is that his focus. Effectively, Drain complements two philosophies: a focus on preventative care, and healthcare (specifically) that is a right, rather than an industry. I think most of us can agree that these philosophies are desirable in a healthcare system. Sure, he says the US has things to learn from Cuba, but essentially, he’s referring to those two things above. So instead of ranting about dictators and free speech, can we at least agree that those two aspects are desirable?
Personally, I agree that healthcare should be a right and that it should focus on preventative care. It makes sense that preventative care will decrease the amount spent on drugs and the number of people who are seriously ill. And ultimately, a populace with a small proportion of sick people (also because healthcare is a right) will not only be more productive, but less miserable and thus less likely to engage in criminal activity caused by desperate situations (again, decreasing costs to the wider population).
Ultimately, that will mean changes to how doctors are educated, and pricing (not just of drugs and medical services, but also health-related costs such as food). Why bring up food? Clearly, it is no use telling someone who has limited means to eat healthier if healthy food is more expensive (which is certainly the case in the US, due to corn and soy subsidies that make processed sugar, unhealthy fats and refined carbohydrates cheap).
What Drain’s two areas of praise do not necessarily entail is a lockdown on freedom of speech and a total conversion to a socialist or communist state.
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So,the US doesn’t have any human rights violations?
I see only those with vested interests on here speaking against Cuba.
Also, the article forgot to mention the large amount of organic food grown in Cuba helped by the govt.And all the vege gardens on rooftops in the cities. After the embargo Cuba had to become self sufficient in food.Perhaps if US followed suit plus moved away from industrial food Americans might not need so much health care. It’s concerning that those with vested interests are pushing for NZ to go the industrial food way also.
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Drain is still operating within a biomedical paradigm and while some changes within the American health system based on the Cuban model would be welcome, until there is a paradigm shift in thinking towards a holistic model any changes are still not getting to the core of the issue, i.e. addressing prevention, diet etc.
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I see I am a year late to this post, but can still see the red marks that LS left on the Toads bottom.
ouch
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