by frog
Well, that’s what the youtube video says, anyway 
Were any of my readers there? How was it?
Biggest NZ Protest March in Living Memory
Published: May 1, 2010
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on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
i had fears that few would turn up..
..and i think there wd be many who thought like me..
..and they will now be kicking themselves they didn’t go..
..but next time they will be sure to..
..and that is the message john key should take from this..
..that if he continues with these mining plans..
..that he ain’t seen nothing yet..
..and i have to say..for auckland..the crowd was very ‘white’..
..lots of green mp’s..a clutch of labour mp’s..including goff..
..no national mp’s..no maori party mp’s..
..my most enjoyable/’best’ march/demo..since that anti-ge one..
..and a resounding affirmation of people-power..
..remember..!
..when it comes down to it..
..they only rule us..with our consent..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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nice to see my name in the photo tho’..eh..?
i didn’t realise…
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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http://nominingprotestpix.blogspot.com/
Fantastic turnout !! Fantastic atmosphere !! Fantastic People !! Great message to the Government – No Mining in our National Parks !!!!!!!!!!!!! And no moving National Park land out of Schedule 4 protection !!!!!!
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PS There were no Maori MPs in evidence, but there were quite a few Maori protesters representing iwi interests especially from the Coromandel – see above pix too.
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the absence of maori party mp’s only confirms for me that the next election choice will be a clear labour/greens on one side..
(with turei/norman as our ‘clegg’…eh..?..eh..?..no pressure..!)..
..and national/maori party on the other..
..and that the big change in the next election will be a splintering of a formerly bloc-vote from maori..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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The best he’s managed is a belated posting of the Robyn Malcolm/Lucy Lawless Sexy Coal video, with a disclaimer (no reason given) that he doesn’t agree with the message.
The whole troll-farm then goes in to bat.
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respectfully
BJ
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They are in effect, a microcosm of the political spectrum, with (if they were not voting Maori) labour and green and national and ACT supporters in proportion.
You sure about this? We’re talking the Maori seats now, not the general roll. One thing we know is that Maori support in these seats for the Greens before the MP was higher than in the general seats and I thought the Nats have hardly figured historically.
I don’t think it’s that easy to predict their downfall yet. MP supporters I’ve talked to see the NatLabs as much the same, not dissimilar to Green supporters, but unlike us, going with the Nats doesn’t entail the same conceptual problems. It will depend on what they are seen to have achieved. Yes, being screwed on taxes etc, will get noticed, but against this is repeal of the F&S, the UN declaration, co-management of resources and the big bet – Whanau Ora. Most of these will not have delivered anything significant by the next election, but my pick is the MP will be given the benefit of the doubt and be back in similar numbers. 2014 may tell a different story.
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Here’s something to consider. Gerry Brownlee would have you think that 7058 ha is “like a postcard on Eden Park” when it is more like the area of a cricket pitch relative to our schedule 4 land. Even when he was corrected on that, he still said it was a small area, so here is another comparison.
In the 1960′s, the government wanted to raise the level of Lake Manapouri. The subsequent protests nationwide were a major catalyst for environmentalism in New Zealand, especially the foundation of the Values Party that was the inspiration for Green parties in Germany and elsewhere. All the older Greens know this, but it may be less familiar to the very welcome younger supporters.
The plan was to raise Lake Manapouri by 11 metres; that would have flooded 2090 ha. Gerry Brownlee wants to despoil more than three times that area!
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This, and the months to come, will be defining moments for New Zealanders commitment to protecting our beautiful forests.
I hope John Key and Brownlee will take a walk in these forests and experience how special they are, then realise what a dumb mistake they were going to make.
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahha!
Oh yes Farrar, they did and so do you!
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“power to the people” Kia-ora
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Well done Aucklanders!
On Friday we marched in Christchurch …
Ours was a smaller version of Aucklander’s march, starting at “ECan” (Environment Canterbury), where our Regional Council has been sacked by Nick Smith. Their crime was refusing high volume water allocations and discharge rights, sought by those wishing to set up large dairy units on the dry Canterbury Plains.
Such high volume water takes, and the discharge of the resulting dairy effluent is potentially endangering dry Canterbury’s PRECIOUS artesian aquifers upon which we all depend for our pure water.
However, PROFIT NOW is apparently more important than the sustainable wellbeing of the land into the future.
(It is interesting to note that one of the properties which has been granted water consents is owned by the HON David Carter’s brother…)
eredwen
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maybe you should have listened what was being said inside rather than just booing the people who support you
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The drummers were amazing.
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The result was people jammed in like sardines in a can from New Lynn into the city, and people trying to get to the demo left stranded on platforms at the last 6 stations.
Veolia put on additional trains and/or more carriages when there is a major sporting event on, but it seemed no-one there scratched their head long enough to realise this was a major event too.
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…booing the people who support you
WTF, do you work for Nick Smith? No doubt if the Nats had just proposed to do those good things without first passing such draconian legislation under urgency and without public scrutiny, people would enjoy hearing the message. As it is, they can hardly expect a different reception.
These people DO NOT support us, even though they may get the occasional thing right.
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stephensmikm.
At the Christchurch protest venue, there was a clash of opinions and ideologies between some of the attendees and the protesters. The makeup of each of those groups was mixed, leading to a mixture of attitudes and behaviours.
Most of the booing I observed was done with a smile (and sometimes with a wave to people who knew each other.) However, booing is certainly not my style!
… nor is accosting people in a threatening manner and telling them “to get a proper job” as one male attendee did to me! (This was rather funny as his anger was aimed at a group of three females, one obviously past retirement age, and two local MPs, none of whom had said anything.)
I found the protest interesting and worthwhile … maybe you could fill us in on the Meeting?
eredwen
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Can you tell us more eredwen?
Nick Smith’s brother! David Carter’s brother! This is starting to look very sleazy indeed.
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Yes. It’s “not a good look”!
e
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Have you heard Pat Condell on democracy and electoral choices in the UK approaching the iminent election this month ??
It’s an excellent rationalisation for voting for small, honest parties vs the main parties that have lost all credibility and integrity in the UK in his view.
The way the Key Govt is trashing the democratic process here, it’s an interesting viewpoint that could be applied to our electoral process too. That’s if the National Govt dosn’t decide to eg. abolish elections !? or bring in a five year term before next year !? or anything else they may have planned but certainly won’t be consulting the electorate on !?
Here is the link to Pat Condell’s clip on YouTube … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krybvOx-8Dk
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But it’s National’s ‘look’ and we’re seeing it more and more often now.
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Have a look over one the other Ecan Page – I posted pretty heavily on it over there at Greenfly’s insistence
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Perhaps you should have listened to the panel speakers…
Oh eredwen I also did note that a few people went from the crowd to the meeting with ticket in clutched hands…
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stephen – the issue of farmers holding water consents, paying for monitoring and researching water quality and volume is being agressively contested in Southland by … farmers, especially one vocal ‘representative’ who is using the Letters to the Editor in the Southland Times to promote his view that farmers shouldn’t be paying, a Mr Hamish English of Dipton. You may be familiar with his brother, Blinglish.
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Someone keeping a tally?
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stephen – you mean the issue of research and monitoring was discussed at the meeting you attended don’t you? Or are you claiming that the Government has declared that this will be the case?
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Again I Have to say since I didn’t take notes have a look on Radio NZ or radio Live – there was a mic there from one of them
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By the way, as the only person in my family that is politically motivated I can say that this march produced a loyalty to the freedom to protest I had not calculated. My family supported me. Thank you family.
Being pushed to start in Fort Street and finish at Myers Park so that part of Queen St could be left open to traffic by Collins’s police was pathetic and mealymouthed. TV3 said 50,000 protestors; TV1 said up to 40,000 funny that, from a channel controlled by NAct. 50,000 it is then. Yay!!!!!
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greenfly
Posted May 2, 2010 at 6:38 PM
Hey! Another ‘bad look’!
Someone keeping a tally?
I hope so. I’ll be displaying all these statistics before the 2011 election in my electorate.
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Perhaps you should have listened to the panel speakers…
That’s not the point at all and just evades the issues I raised in response.
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I’m not evading the question it just seems the answer is so obvious it doesn’t need to be said but since you seem to insist…
The two actions are separate from each other – the govt has been planning this regulation for a while, most likely it was actually pure coincidence that the govt had to remove the rather foolish and pathetic council and then realised they were going to be releasing this new plan when protests were going on – the Shipley lecture was planned months ahead so the Hon Dr Smith would have had this all set and now purely by provenance it happened to have to drop right in the middle of this side issue.
most people were not protesting the ecan temporary replacement but the potential for farmers – refer the “s**t in the water” signs, to get the upper hand over the townships of Canterbury which will now be nil
I also say listen to the panellists because they directly relayed why nothing was happening with the regional council – inside bickering , Environment Court cases using up time, money and resources…listen to the panel it will be somewhere recorded, I can’t be bothered finding it personally because I heard everything from the source
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Stephensmikm!
I’m not evading the question it just seems the answer is so obvious it doesn’t need to be said
Are you Rick “I think my argument is so powerful that it’s not necessary to talk about it” Giles ???
Awesome!
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I wish, that guy’s a legend
but I have stated the reason I’m sure now 50 bazillion times on here that’s why I assumed the answer would become obvious , apparently not and I did answer yet again for clarification…
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It is okay to be sceptical- I was of Student loans, now I’m not but they have some ‘wonderful’ things in store for Cantab water that will please Christchurch and the towns, that will hopefully within 20 years bring the water quality right back up to what is was 120 years ago – remember water here isn’t filtered like in every other NZ city – it’s totally from the source, you know, maybe if the Greens did a deal with National maybe they could get an earlier election date for the regional council – I’m sceptical of course but It could happen
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Stephensmikm:
In Christchurch “the people outside” the Jenny Shipley Meeting (protesting) included experts in their fields from various institutions and organizations : Landcare Research, ECan(staff), DOC, University Academics, Forest and Bird, etc (as well as City Councilors, ECAN Councilors,MPs.)
Personally I prefer to learn from their collective experience, knowledge and (yes) wisdom.
As far as any chance of the Greens doing a deal with National: there would be no point in holding your breath (especially after this ECAN fiasco has been added to the Auckland debacle).
Perhaps you don’t mind having your democratic rights removed?
I suspect, from what you write, that you are young.
In contrast, many of the older and more experienced people that I talk with are making comparisons with Germany in the 1930′s…
From what you write about what was said at the Jenny Shipley meeting, our democracy is under serious threat.
eredwen
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and the people inside were the people who mattered more and cared more about Canterbury.
No they aren’t.
its hyperbole to suggest anything remotely like 1930s40s Germany and very foolish to do so.
don’t make assumptions either.
that’s all.
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As for assumptions, stephen has made several big ones too, so might take his own advice.
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I spent the day (with about twenty others) on the streets of Dunedin getting signitures on the petition.
Sooo easy.
Plenty of people saw me with a clip board and tried to scurry past (as you do) when they heard me say “sign the petition against mining in national parks” they stopped in their tracks and turned to sign.
At several points I had queues forming to sign it.
One of the best people we had collecting signitures is a geology graduate and a gold miner. So there Straterra!
I often pulled out my cell phone to explain I was not anti mining…..
blissed – totally
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Why respond when you have absolutely nothing say?
and again you make assumptions, get a life!
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@bliss
Yep, that seems to be the latest spin by those that want to rip up schedule 4 land – attempting to depict those of us opposing it as opposed to all mining, anywhere
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That is a good question. Can it be answered? I am curious.
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Dame Jenny Shipley actually doesn’t conduct the lectures , it was a panel of several individuals including Mark Solomon, the Chief Exec and a few others such as the Mayor and of course the Minister
They actually address that issue because the main concern of the lecture was the whole s**T and water concerns
They did address however that the current collaborations between lincoln and Canterbury were a good thing in regards to the region – maybe that was a hint at it
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What happened in 1930′s Germany started one small step at a time … each step was seen as “reasonable” by the general populace. Things were streamlined, everything worked well …
My (adult) kids father was a German Australian. We were both born in 1941. Early in our relationship we had an interesting time looking beyond the stereotypes of what that meant, while living in a knee jerk “British & Allies GOOD Germans BAD” society.
What happened in PreWar Germany started with very small steps. The reasons for each step were reasonable …
What is happening now in Aotearoa started with small steps … first in Auckland, now in Canterbury. The reasons are “reasonable” …
The thing that is NOT “reasonable” is that our democracy has been removed from the citizens of Canterbury, “for our own good” apparently, because the ECAN Councillors “were not making the right decisions” quickly enough.
I DO NOT TAKE IT LIGHTLY WHEN DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED COUNCILORS ARE REMOVED FROM OFFICE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE THE DECISIONS THEY ARE MAKING.
I DO NOT LIKE IT WHEN OUR RIGHTS TO VOTE ARE REMOVED…
I have to wonder … What is next on the Agenda?
eredwen
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I’m not going to comment on that – it’ll ruin the thread.
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My question revolves around my acknowledging the possibility that the current Ecan was disfunction. (Note: I say possibility, I am not in a position to judge…) We have had numerous examples of elected regional type boards from District Councils, DHBs and Bds of Trustees repalced by Commissioners, but to my knowlwdge the next elections have not been cancelled.
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Ruru,
Very simple. If you gain a mining concession to mine x amount of rock (where the state takes a royalty for every ounce of gold mined) you can quite confidently outlay a large amount of capital to buy plant, start shifting rock, crushing and extracting gold.
You have a certified and guarenteed number of tons of rock from which to work out a financial return.
The concession is owned by the people through the mechanism of state control (and the royalties returned are used by the state for the betterment of the people – in theory).
Problem with cell phones is that they are owned by the people (not the state)and a “mining” company has not got a guarenteed number of phones as “raw” material” (rock if you like) to ensure a financial return.
One could quite easily set up a facility to extract gold from phones, the problem is getting enough phones, on a consistant basis, to “mine” them for that gold.
That is where the business risk lies.
Those of communist bend would say the phones should be owned by the state but fortunately they (the phones) are not.
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Nick Smith gave a justification – it was he was wary of the result if an election were held.
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actually toad is a bit on the money :O
Proximity to this event and the events leading up to it means that there needs to be a period between the elections to stop people voting for demagogues who just hate the govt- not that the people later won’t hate the govt when elected in, just that they’ll also work for cantab!
also, they need to clear house to make sure everything at the regional council is and stays chipper
I agree they should bring it forward to 2012,, it can’t be 2011 because of National elections and World cup – practical really, 2013 is a little long but at least since they choose incredibly neutral parties it will be a good house cleaning – they might even get around to doing the water as well since the last council didn’t.
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Gerrit It would take a bit of a gamble to start, but then what isn’t when you are first starting a venture. But if there were collection centres in all towns (More jobs) and what is collected on e-wast days would go into NZ factories and not be sent overseas. We would have enough when people became used to e-waste disposal, and the land fills would not be filled so quickly. There would be money,jobs and no need to mine. Tell me what is gold used for that is really essential? Not jewellery (where most of it goes) and not gold plated coffins either. – Criminal
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Who do you see as the “they” who are to make these decisions?
and
From where do they get their mandate?
e
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The Nationwide Govt and that was elected in and from an Act of Parliament that was voted for by Parliament. simple really.
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The who?
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@greenfly 4:04 PM
Won’t get fooled again?
Shit, we have been, haven’t we?
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Not me Toad.
Stephen on the other hand …
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Yep, ‘fly, that actually should have been addressed to him, sometimes get a bit sloppy with 10 second comments, especially when I am listening to some great music at the same time. Couldn’t resist playing it as I linked to it.
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I doubt any of you were either, maybe there was some optimism in the initial days but long has been seen into the darkness
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Proximity to this event and the events leading up to it means that there needs to be a period between the elections to stop people voting for demagogues who just hate the govt…
What are you talking about? Smith said he was wary of the result of October’s election as a reason for canning ECAN, not for waiting until 2013.
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October in Canterbury is going to be a lively time for all concerned.
I’m looking foward to it very much – that feeling of being ripped-off is a feeling that grows and grows over time. As the results of local body elections from other regions come in, people in Canterbury are going to feel as though they’ve been treated like children.
Cantabrians (aside from stephen) don’t like that!
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the rest is implied valis – the election , the world cup as I said 2012 would be a good time to do it rather than 2013 but thats they chose
No, that’s not implied at all. NoRightTurn quotes:
So the decision to axe the election was about ensuring the voters wouldn’t undo what the govt wants and that’s the same reason 2011 wasn’t chosen. 2013 was because that gives the unelected rulers the time they need without being bothered by the voters.
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I found it was , Idiot Savant didn’t and you didn’t , it’s opinion really isn’t it Valis – implied means unsaid
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Yea, right. You’re the one that talks about not making assumptions, but you’re happy to invent patsy reasons like the world cup out of nothing to explain why elections were delayed for three years rather than one.
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Or was it convenience to rout the opposition and prevent them from analysing the Bill. Which makes a mockery of this govt’s law and order program eh !
You need to be aware that 3 branches of the govt warned against passing this legislation ! Papers recently released make it clear the Government was acting deliberately. The Ministry of Justice warned that stripping Cantabrians of rights enjoyed by other Kiwis would result in significantly less ability to protect their interests than elsewhere in the country effectively making them second class citizens. The advice concluded that the changes were not consistent with Government policy requiring a “particularly strong case to be made for any regulatory proposals that are likely to override fundamental common law principles.”1
The Department of Conservation cautioned against the changes saying the Creech report did not justify bringing in commissioners and restricting appeals on a regional plan and water conservation orders to points of law in the High Court.
Even the Ministry for the Environment, the proponents of this draconian legislation, warned of significant risks in suspending planned elections and transferring the functions and responsibilities of elected councillors to government appointed commissioners. They warned that passing legislation under urgency and limiting appeal rights on decisions made by commissioners “potentially alienates Canterbury ratepayers … and raises equity and access to justice issues”.
We’ll give them “potential alienation” all right
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AUCKLANDERS ARE AN INSPIRATION!!!!!
That was an inspiring turnout it even makes one want to live in Auckland dispite all it’s difficulties.
I hope that future demonstrations over E-can will attract similar proportions in Canterbury as I think that it is as important an issue as intended mining on Schedule 4 land.
I mean really what can I say? Brownlee must be an absolute philistein! It’s rather like measuring up the main mosque in Mecca with the view of turning it into a shopping mall!!!Imagine putting an oil rig where pilgrims come from all parts of the globe to celebrate the annual Haj
I would like to know who the organisers of the Auckland protests were and what their strategy was, because they were doing something right.
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Honestly, I don’t know. Maybe it should have gone through all correct channels to remove the ecan board but it didn’t. If the Greens get into a coalition with Labour or National maybe they can fix that. As I said 2012 is the earliest it will happen.
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Stephensmikm
The Nationwide Govt and that was elected in and from an Act of Parliament that was voted for by Parliament. simple really.
No… the “Nationwide Govt” was elected to implement a normal constitutional role, not to alienate the rights of citizens to self-government in Canterbury and Auckland in favour of greater powers being gathered to itself.
The clarity with which we perceive this power grab and the strength of your denial that it is happening are both functions of our respective politics, but I suggest that you are more misled than we. Even if it could be justified properly, it was not and it DOES gather ever greater and less accountable power into the central government.
Is this really what you want?
BJ
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I think there will be no coalition with National.
I have said often enough. We will, can and should always talk. There is always reason to do that and one does often learn something in the process.
However, I have not ever seen any indication that National could or would, with its ownership being what and who it is, be anything but our most implacable political enemy.
respectfully
BJ
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I guess I would be accused of something by some if I suggested the Ecan election could coinside with Fiji’s – 2015 I think (if they are lucky). What on earth is proximity to the next scheduled election date got to do with the issue, unless of course certain politicians wish to disenfranchise some because they are regarded as unsuitable, and by disenfranchise why not disqualify them entirely from standing – speak English Nick.
The appointment of commissioners at Ecan could have been done without an Act of Parliament in 2010 as they could for any local authority. The Commissioners then simply oversee the responsibilities of the local authority until whenever. I have an idea the Hawke Bay DHB is in just a situation.
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bj@7:00 – entirely agree.
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the ‘normal consitutional role’ of the govt is to use Parliament’s parliamentary sovereignty to create laws on behalf of the people, parliament is a body which overrides anything else. Because in NZ the exec and parliament are a part of each other unlike in a number of other countries the Nationwide elections was made with voter knowledge of this. people voted for those parties knowing full well what may occur and with the knowledge they would act on behalf of NZ’s majority and they have. The rights of citizens are whatever they get parliament to decide they are , no more , no less.
I think it may be you who is misled about how NZ works
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Oh Lordy! Be gentle Mr Chip (he’s young!)
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It is also why some members of Cabinet with constitutional roles such as Chris Finlayson, Attorney General, report when proposed Bills contravene certain legisaltion. The latest example, I think being the Social Security Future Focus Bill.
We also have officers of Parliament such as Ombudsman and Audtitor General – both at one point honourable roles but sadly less so today.
So yes Parliament is soverign, but as Charles 1 discovered those who abuse their power can be toppled. We in NZ just have a more gentlemanly way of doing it! Starting with 40,000 wandering down Queen Street (to get back on topic).
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Even ol’ Nick wouldn’t employ a 15 year old to defend him on the blogs.
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That is a fair judgement of that issue, I can accept it quite nicely
@Valis
to use a youth vernacular lol.
back on topic 40,000 people is a fascinating turnout. How I expect this to play out will be that the Bill on the land surveying will pass, the govt will state they won’t survey Great Barrier due to public protest, and focus solely on areas such as the Coromandel and West Coast ending up with mining only the west coast if they stay in for a third term
@greenfly
Stop Trolling.
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@greenfly 5:49 PM
Not sure about that ‘fly. No minimum wage for under 16, remember! Nick probably has a propensity to exploit that. If not Nick, maybe his brother Tim.
BTW – watch this space. Rumour has it that there could be a big albatross crapping on Paula Bennett’s head shortly.
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Awwww! Pawwwwwwwwla!
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@greenfly
Stop Trolling.
Having that one framed stephensmikm.
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