by Metiria Turei
Trevor Mallard defriended me on Facebook last night and I have to tell you the story. He also defriended another person for asking the same questions I did. Not terribly sporting, I would have thought.
Here are the clipped out comments between he and I:
Trevor Mallard: 25c/hour. $10 week for 40 hours then minus tax, extra acc, ets charges. Not fair John Key. It should be $15.
Metiria Turei: Trevor, with genuine respect, my question is why didn’t you do it when you had the chance? It has been the right thing to do for years.
Trevor Mallard: We moved it from $7 to $12. Trajectory would have had it at $14. Not much real help from you guys esp since Russel started cuddling tories.
Metiria Turei: Getting personal wont help here – this is a political debate about the use of power when you have it to weild.
I agree that the minimum wage did rise under Labour. Even if the trajectory, in the best of circumstances, would have had it at $14 in 2010, it was still a slow process over nearly 10 years.
The issue now is to make sure that we have a political commitment from parties that the minimum wage will go to at least $15 ph or to, as the petition says, “66% of the average total hourly earning as defined in the Quarterly Employment Survey”. We need a commitment to kepp closing that gap in the short and long term and a commitment fairly sharing the cost of eliminating poverty.Trevor Mallard: Metiria the txts and phones are running hot at your choice to attack Labour rather than Nats on multiple sites on this issue – general disbelief – from both Greens and Labour people. This is politics not personal.
Metiria Turei: We have to live with our legacies and its hard sometimes.
Its not unreasonable to ask what the barriers to doing the right thing was in the past and whether those barriers will still be in place in the future. What we need now is positive future focused commitments.Trevor Mallard: Metiria Cant tell if you are trying to be cute or smart or what. I am very proud of the progress Labour made on the minimum wage. Took it from $7 to $12. Way way ahead of inflation and change in average wages.
Worked closely with Sue Bradford on the youth issue. And she knew how to work on an issue wither there was broad agreement and it didn’t involve repeating the very lines the National party used to attack Labour as you have done tonight.
And that’s how our FB friendship came to an end.
The beauty of Facebook is that politicians like Trevor and I can discuss issues in the public eye. It means we are challenged by others to answer for our views, decisions and behavior – which is great. It’s one reason why I like to use Facebook to ask questions: Have I got this right? What would have been better? What do you think? So where is the commitment to an open dialogue if you get defriended – for disagreeing?
Modern politics is all about cooperating where you can, finding common ground and the barriers to further areas of common ground. The old style of politics “If you’re not with me, you’re against me” is dying out, and frankly, the sooner the better.
We can’t make it in the 21st century if we don’t learn to engage better. Not that I am perfect – I can get a little scratchy at times that’s true. But I won’t defriend Trevor if he comes and argues with me on Facebook. Because those of us who believe in a fair go for everyone and caring for our planet have to start talking to each other, challenging each other and taking the collective action to make our country and sustainable and prosperous one.
So, I think Trevor is being a bit silly and I will invite him to be my Facebook friend again. I hope that he accepts and I will let you know what he says.
Published in THE GAME by Metiria Turei on Thu, January 28th, 2010
More posts by Metiria Turei | more about Metiria Turei
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
A very modern approach, Meyt, and I suspect that Trevor hasn’t got a handle on how to do the FB thing as well as you have, lol.
Perhaps he needs a helpful teenager to show him how to work it?
Like or Dislike:
6 
7 (-1)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
9 
19 (-10)
Like or Dislike:
13 
9 (+4)
Yeah haaaaa!!!!!!!!!
The greens are finally standing up to their abusive, domineering partner!
Stick it to em Met and like I heard on the “Band of Brothers” series, keep firing , don’t let up!!!!
You may not see it yet, but in time you will feel so liberated from the oppression and battery you guys have suffered.
Like or Dislike:
7 
9 (-2)
Like or Dislike:
9 
5 (+4)
Where have you been Shunda? The Greens have never shied away from confronting Labour. Remember 2002?
Like or Dislike:
4 
9 (-5)
Like or Dislike:
17 
3 (+14)
(Shunda’s from the Coast)
Like or Dislike:
2 
3 (-1)
Mike I disagree, the thread on Mallards page was 90 comments long, people want to talk directly to MPs and want to hear what the real, unmediated views of MPs are. This discussion Mallard and I were having could have opened up for all those watching a real insight into how daily real politics works – the good and bad bits. Its messy yes, but the alternative is either shouting matches in the Chamber for the cameras or secret back room chats.
Shunda Barunda – one facebook spat is a very small step towards emancipation but thanks for the vote of confidence!
Lets see how this whole thing plays out – i am now trying to figure out how to invite him to be my friend. Maybe I’ll wait till i get home and my daughter can show me! (feeling my age)
Like or Dislike:
11 
4 (+7)
First you shitbag labour for not raising the minimum wage and then you claim you want “positive future focused commitments” and now you’re claiming politics is about cooperation.
Are you saying that Trevor should have cooperated with your attempt to attack labour on their (pretty good) record on the minimum wage?
Between that beautiful piece of logic and the fact you seem unable to use an apostrophe properly I’m starting to think 2011 might be the first year the Greens don’t get my vote.
Like or Dislike:
15 
21 (-6)
To talk to Trevor, go onto his profile page and send him a message.
Tell him he’s sorry for what happened.
Like or Dislike:
5 
2 (+3)
I call you a fake.
Like or Dislike:
11 
5 (+6)
Red Bill (Bull?) can’t contain his rage!
How DARE! you speak back!!!
Like or Dislike:
8 
4 (+4)
@Greenfly – But they are quite happy to dress up as clowns and get arrested. Or list working in a fish and chip shop as ‘exprience’ – Hell I prefer the guy who uses the term shitbag.
Like or Dislike:
4 
12 (-8)
Look like an ass?
I thought it was an irrefutable fact!!
“At least he didn’t slug ya!”
Has Trev hit Greens before? what an ANIMAL!
Like or Dislike:
8 
2 (+6)
No it is not dying out – it’s just that the challenges to the powerful are getting weaker. The “let’s all be cooperative’ mantra is about surrender to the powerful under the pretence, or naiviety, that the powerful will make fair compromises if we cooperate with them.
As soon as there is a real challenge to powerful – when poorly paid workers come asking for a raise, or a small country asserts its independence, or a colonised people ask for justice, or somebody tells a multi-national to stop stealing their resources – all that lovely ‘cooperation’ goes out the window and the old-fashioned class war of brute force returns.
Despite the new agey drivel about ‘cooperation’ we are losing on all fronts. The division of wealth is getting worse, the environment is being shredded, people around the world are losing rights and suffering violent attacks. We are cooperating ourselves to death.
Like or Dislike:
12 
2 (+10)
That said Labour’s current policy is in step with the $9 to $12 increase and further increases to $15 an hour (by 2011). If they commit to indexing that figure from 2011 – through 2012-2014 than this guarantees that 450,000 people will get wage increases in that period (some low wage workers in the $13-15 area have not had any increase for years and only by being picked up by the rising tide of the minimum wage increase will their living standard stop deteriorating.
Like or Dislike:
6 
1 (+5)
On the unfriend/defriend debate: apparentally they’re both acceptable. From the font of all knowledge, http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/AheadoftheCurve/unfriend-defriend-facebook-fans-debate/story?id=9106240
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
Metiria and i don’t agree on much but we can at least have civil discourse with out throwing tantrums. Keep it up Metiria.
Like or Dislike:
26 
3 (+23)
Like or Dislike:
14 
2 (+12)
Hey, Valis, so did I (begrudgingly, given past experiences, but Whale’s comment deserved it).
Without trawling the archives I suspect this is the first time Whale has posted something sensible enough to get any positive karma rating here.
Well done Whale. Keep it up!
The virgin positive karma Whale. Yippee! Let’s hope for more to come.
Like or Dislike:
6 
2 (+4)
BIll – not many Green supporters would casually use the word ’shitbag’, nor would they threaten to stop voting over the use of an apostrophe.
I call you a fake.
That’s right Greenfly, you’ve no right to be a green supporter unless you write like polite middle-class folk. I just wish someone had told me that before I wasted my vote term after term after term. It would have also saved me a lot of time trudging around delivering you party’s leaflets and talking people around to voting Green.
And the apostrophe comment was a joke. One that’s clearly wasted on you.
Like or Dislike:
9 
12 (-3)
I don’t think you wasted your vote at all and, being a pamphlet deliverer myself, appreciate your efforts.
Guess I’ll have to learn to use more graphic language if I’m to understand your pov.
Like or Dislike:
7 
3 (+4)
Trevor doesnt even have a Facebook account
Like or Dislike:
0 
4 (-4)
What a brilliant post Metiria! i do not agree with your politics at all, but you are a real person. A quality Trevor Mallard has never had.
I can testify to the NZ public that you are a great calm, composed and rational person. (You showed this quite clearly when I interviewed you!)
Like or Dislike:
4 
3 (+1)
lol, Rat, you are so right.
Not anymore, he doesn’t!
Meyt, I think this is why the FB stat’s show a marked demographic decrease for the 45 and up age groups – not used to sharing the attention with the ROTW.
But then, Labour’ve never understood consensus politics, either….
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
I agree 100% with Sam Buchanan.
Metiria’s statement that “Modern politics is all about cooperating where you can, finding common ground and the barriers to further areas of common ground. The old style of politics “If you’re not with me, you’re against me” is dying out, and frankly, the sooner the better.” is very telling. She is very clearly trying to shift the Greens towards the center of the political spectrum.
Some things are non-negotiable; and on some things there is no common ground. Take the recent climate talks in Copenhagen: we found that the common ground was that none of the big countries wanted to make meaningful cuts to their carbon dioxide emissions. In the mean time, places such as Tuvalu gradually slip beneath the waves while the big nations argue over whether 5% cuts in emissions (what Australia has pledged for example) represents the common ground or not.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
“Jesus, I just up-ticked Whaleoil. Wasn’t expecting that.”
Isn’t it spooky, I just up ticked Valis!!
I think there is an anomaly in the space time continuum
CENTRED AROUND THIS THREAD!!!!!
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
“Cuddling Tories”? Metiria: If you want to give my bum a sneaky squeeze, you’re quite welcome — just be warned that my partner is the jealous type. I don’t think it’s so much that Trevor Mallard hasn’t got the hang of Facebook, more like he’s still going through his election loss grieving process & never quite come to terms with MMP. Never mind.
Like or Dislike:
4 
3 (+1)
This is absolutely a sign that the Green party has become an intellectually vacous party more focussed on stirring e-shit than in trying to work with the only real progressive party in New Zealand to defeat the National party.
But then again – I don’t expect much from the party that would rather sign a “Memorandum of Agreement” with the National Government than fight against corrupt Toryism.
This goes to show the intellectual bankruptcy of the Green Party – more interested in picking childish fights with people you should be working with than concentrating on forging a united and viable opposition to the National Government.
Meterie Turei. I am disappoint.
Like or Dislike:
6 
11 (-5)
http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/01/29/metiria-if-you-want-to-attack-labour-do-it-on-your-own-page/#comments
Like or Dislike:
6 
3 (+3)
Metiria, I am from an opposing side of the political spectrum of you. I oppose the politics of the minimum wage as the merits of it are considerably fake. HOWEVER, what I intended to say
is that I am appalled by Trevor Mallard’s arrogance. It is by no means he has proved to be a chauvenist A.wipe, and condescending remarks about “cuddling Tories” and “trying to be cute or smart or what” is just plainly insulting. You did not bring it upon yourself; you challenged a senior Labour member on their own record, which is a strong part of a thriving democracy. If Trevor wants to employ China’s tactics against free speech and debate, then quite frankly I wouldn’t be suprised by his authoritarian acts. Keep up the good work in challenging where challenging is required!!! 
Like or Dislike:
4 
3 (+1)
Like or Dislike:
6 
2 (+4)
Ronald – a tiny green fly challenges you to explain why you think ‘working in a fish and chip shop’ isn’t ‘experience’.
Like or Dislike:
3 
2 (+1)
True. But I think Metiria was talking about parliament.
If there is to be any shred of respectability recovered by the “representative democracy” system – and the best I can say so far is that it has not *always* been a *total* sham – then parliament is an important place where the interests of the people can be defended. Don’t hold your breath.
But it will not be by bickering. Bickering is pointless.
That is a sign that some people see parliamentary politics as the same as activist politics, standing on the side lines shouting and/or sticking spanners in the works. It is not. It is completely different. And what is different now is that progressive forces are in parliament for the first time since Labour lost its way, way back in the 1940s.
The Greens have never been able to discern much difference between the Nats and the Labs. If Labour is “the only real progressive party in New Zealand” then we are all fsckd. Admittedly one of the two grey parties is a little more blatant that it works primarily in the interests of the ruling elites. Labour does try to give out enough, just enough, to keep the prolls from (being too) revolting.
But they both serve, first and foremost, capitalism. They are both dependant on the capitalist elites. Whilst the Greens are not “anti capitalist” we are not beholden as are LabNat.
Back in the day Labour was truly on the side of the angles. But times have changed and now the best they can aspire to be is a lighter shade of National. That is what they were for 9 years in power. What Trevor shows is what was always the very ugly side of the left and right. The complete inability to take criticism and debate their own policies and record. Labour’s record on the minimum wage is defensible, so why didn’t Trevor defend it? Instead he got personal Not much real help from you guys esp since Russel started cuddling tories.
blissfully
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
Bliss,
If Metiria was referring to parliament, she should have said so. Her statement was actually very clear: “Modern politics is all about cooperating where you can, finding common ground and the barriers to further areas of common ground.” I think she is referring to politics in general.
Now I don’t have anything against cooperation; indeed cooperation is what will solve many of the world’s problems. The problem is that some of the divisions in society are so great that cooperation across the divisions is not that fruitful. Sometimes fighting it out to see who is the winner achieves better results than trying to cooperate.
Like or Dislike:
3 
1 (+2)
samiuela
Perhaps. But…
My point is that Trevor is being a big baby. In the context of Metiria and Trevor a sensible argument would be best, but Trevor, being who he is, does not seem able.
Labour’s record on the minimum wage is not shameful. (Not as brilliant as I would like) so why can he not defend it? Instead he goes all ad hominem on her arse!
B
Like or Dislike:
4 
2 (+2)
Speaking of vacous, this statement captures the logical flaw that runs through this entire comment. The fact is that the Greens oppose more of the corrupt Tory agenda than Labour does, as our respective voting records in the House show. Francois wants us not only to ignore the bad things Labour did in government, but also the bad things they supported last year.
Like or Dislike:
7 
2 (+5)
Metiria, Clearly you’ve lost the plot! You are going to have to get used to the fact that your foe is the Blue Team and not the Red Team. But I don’t know that you know that with the way you’ve sucked up to the Nats. Get over your problem instead of wasting our time with your stupidity!
Like or Dislike:
6 
5 (+1)
Metiria – the Labourites are mobilizing, for reasons known only to them!
I posted this on the Standard
Good grief! How precious you are being!
Metiria startled Trevor with a question on his Facebook page, causing him to throw his arms in the air, biff a few pointless insults her way and chuck her off his ‘friends’ list!
The Greens have and will continue to hold Labour’s feet to the heat when necessary, but for Labour and her supporters to screech and writhe every time they do it is quite pathetic, given that this was hardly an inferno Metiria was subjecting Trevor to, more the warm glow of a friendly fire.
Goff’s speech two days back was a good one, and Labour has pricked-up its ears in response, but to start churlishly swatting anyone within arms reach as a result, is silly. Silly, Mr Mallard.
Like or Dislike:
6 
4 (+2)
Hi Metiria, i have a question to ask you. Did you also post a question on John Key’s facebook page? Im dumbfounded that the National party take another swipe at New Zealands poor and you attack the only hope we have of eliminating them. Its not friendly, its foolish.
Like or Dislike:
4 
3 (+1)
I think you’ll find that Metiria criticises National more than she criticises Labour.
Like or Dislike:
6 
1 (+5)
Is it inconsistent for people to accuse Trevor of not being real and at the same time tell him off for losing his temper for a brief time? I think so. Some people – like Trevor and Hone Harawira – are inclined to let loose with inappropriate words or actions, because they feel passionate about the issues and they’re honest politicians (if you can believe the term). Trevor is still on Facebook and I hope he and Metiria re-friend and resume discussions. Maybe they could both steer the discussion not just towards the miserliness of the 25c wage increase, but also the impact of the cuts the Nats have been making in jobs, health, and higher education, as well as the lack of support for public transport. Let’s not get distracted into forgetting where the discussion started and why people are concerned with the Government decision on minimum wages.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
3 
16 (-13)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
2 
12 (-10)
Cross Madame Bloopee’s palm with Silver and she will gaze into her
snow-globeCrystal Ball and Reveal the most Intimate Details of Your Future.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/resources/2008/04/crystal%20ball.jpg
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
BluePeter has spoken the unmentionable truth that lurks at the back of your mind.
Like or Dislike:
0 
2 (-2)
BluePeter is the unmentionable goof that lurks at the back of … what rhymes with ‘mind’? Blind?
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/6740515/mallard-turei-facebook-buddies-again/
Says it all.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
PS: I’m not Trevor Mallard. I don’t have a Facebook page and have never tried to access Facebook.
Like or Dislike:
0 
1 (-1)
Metiria, you’ll see from today’s Stuff.co.nz poll that over 51% of respondents agree with my position on the matter, in comparison to the 38% supporting you. While I don’t generally put much stock in the content of Stuff.co.nz, I think I’ll selectively ignore my bias today in order to support my argument
Basically, the majority of respondents believe politicians have no place on Facebook in an official capacity.
While I won’t and haven’t gone so far as to say that, I do still believe that discourse, debate, conflict, discussion – whatever you choose to call it, among competing parties is best served by using actual voices rather than the easily misinterpreted text bombs and flame wars that we tend to see online.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
Like one or two of the commentators I too am disappointed after two electoral cycles of supporting the greens and seeing the ditching of the real engine in the political wing. Too often green mp’s appear as politely irrelevant. Frogblog is well down on my list of daily reading.
I think the question asked of Mallard was just another repetition of that old canard “Why didn’t you when…’ and, as the detail of his reply showed, was largely uninformed & irrelevant. It was obviously irritating to him hence his comment about cuddling tories which was hardly a ‘personal attack’. It’s a criticism I’ve made myself.
The Facebook issue is neither here nor there, but from the comments string it is obviously very pleasing to the little Nact pussies who are happily trolling through.
I’m not holding my breath about Labour as a viable government over the next three years, but I am less and less likely to continue voting green. It’s mostly about middle-class feel good, I reckon.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
METIRIA SHOWS INTEGRITY
What Metiria has exposed shows that she has integrity and that Trevor Mallard handled the matter in a very immature way. If he intends to be in the next government well he really needs to get his act together, swallow his pride and start forging alliences.
That’s what real politics is about!!!!!!
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
Thanks, Galeandra. Usually being called a “troll” hurts my feelings, but it doesn’t sting so much coming from someone throwing around sexist and demeaning insults like “pussies”.
Says a lot about why I respect Greens like Metiria (even when the issues we agree on can be counted on a closed fist), but have none whatsoever for intemperate and amazingly thin-skinned bullies like Trevor Mallard and his enablers.
Like or Dislike:
2 
0 (+2)
“Trevor Mallard says:
January 18, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Hereodotus @ 3.38 Sorry in an out of computer this afternoon. No I don’t have a good fix on what is a livable wage.”
I am astounded that those within the Lab caucus do not know how much it costs to live within NZ, and have never taken the time or effort to find out. I am bemused as to his attack on you when he has no bases on why he supports whatever levels that the min wage should be set at. If we do not know how much it costs to more than just survive then how can we have a discussion on min wage, benefits and tax?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Facebook hardly seems the place when at the first whiff of rhetorical grapeshot, one is able to duck for cover and withdraw from verbal battle completely.
But the argument about the minimum wage is illuminating. To give Labour credit, they did up the minimum wage quite significantly. But as Bliss notes, there really isn’t that much difference between Labour and the Nats in their basic political and economic philosophy. They are both beholden to monetarism and neo-liberal economic policies. Remember Phil Goff’s cringing apology for the “nanny state” . What true socialist would have demeaned themselves in such a craven manner? He should have been celebrating the fact that Labour ran an administration that actually cared about people. He could have stoutly defended the party with a well thought out retort, such as ” When National takes over, we will all be needing a nanny” or, to paraphrase Churchill, “Some Nanny, Some State”
The fact is that Labour is “National Light”, especially under the leadership of Phil Goff and Annette King, and as long as they remain so, they will stay permanently as Her Majesty’s Opposition. They sold off all their principles when they sold off all our assets, and I have yet to see a flicker of understanding in the party about this. The party made a very bad error of political judgement in not appointing a care-taker leader when Helen Clark resigned, and having a robust internal debate as to the future of the party, their philosophical direction and then a robustly contested election say six months later. That’s one of the major issues for our society and what I will be talking about in my next blog entry – the lack of debate about the nature of society, about growth, and unfettered capitalism, the loss of sovereignty etc, in the public at large; so if you can’t get that debate in a political party, where on earth can you?
The Greens are the only truly progressive party in Parliament, but with only a few seats, they are in an invidious position. They were for the most part treated pretty shabbily by Labour, and when Trevor Mallard puts the boot in, it’s nothing new from Labour. The Greens were then criticised by the media for not coming to some sort of accommodation with National after the last election, yet the first year of National government has proven that party’s almost complete indifference to the environment and equity and undoing some of only achieved environmental policies during the whole Labour administration. National, and their ACT (the Atmosphere Can Take it party) have proved, as the Greens suspected they would, utterly inimical to the Greens’ policies and philosophies, and yet political commentators naively and probably cynically, suggest that the Greens are being standoffish. Honestly!
The Greens are on their own. Almost all the progressive environmental legislation has come about in the face of indifference from Labour, and total opposition from National. All the Greens can keep doing is plugging away, promoting the only policies that we know are sustainable and workable, keeping up as good a dialogue with other parties as best as possible, but not retreating from being fiercely critical when needed, which will be most of the time. I agree with Sam Buchanan, because, with all respect, Metiria, your reasoned and cooperative approach to politics, whilst at face value is a very worthwhile principle to espouse, worries me a bit. You and all the Greens are really going to have to fight for the planet in the next few years – the appalling happenings in Copenhagen and John Keys hypocrisy in attending prove that the next few years of National are going to be very bad for all of us. Politics is a dirty business, and you are going to get your hands dirty. I think with the departure of Jeanette, this is a time for the new guard to reassert the reality of the problems our society is creating for itself, and if in being a powerful advocate for the environment, and our future generations, it offends a large portion of the House of Representatives, so that not one will join you on Facebook, or indeed a large proportion of the population, then so be it. If the Greens can’t be true to their principles no-one can, Labour failed years ago, and National never had any principles in the first place.
Like or Dislike:
3 
0 (+3)
That’s a very good summation Jock.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
To sumup Jocks summation:-
‘THE MAJORITY ARE NOT ALWAYS IN THE RIGHT’
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)