This Identity Cards system is not only for the security of the locals, but also for the security of the foreign nationals. Foreign nationals shouldn’t worry about this system really, if they do illegal things then they really should. No need for sleepwalking into a Surveillance society.

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Valis says:

“Of course, a Trotskyist revolution for New Zealand. Obvious isn’t it. ”

I’m not up on the varieties like you!

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What makes you Nattys ignorant is your unwitting support of Nz’s open and Local Revolution that is happening every Day.
Weath by stealth and privelige by pallor….
You think the Guns won’t come out?
I wouldn’t worry about the Russia of 90 years ago – we have far more urgent and profound problems of our own.
Switch off your cpu and take a look around perhaps?

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jh – not by any stretch of the imagination (even your impressive one) did that help to explain anything!

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The ‘anti’ out-numbered the ‘pro’ 10 to 1.

Hilarious!

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Rent-a-mob demonstrators outnumbered by media, it would seem.

Tragic.

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This may help explain the green parties obsession with surveillance:

Islamophobia’ and the Left-Islamist Axis

Those on the far-left who promote the notion of widespread ‘Islamophobia’ are arguably racially obsessed, and the idea of the West being at heart a corrupt, racist, and imperialist phenomenon is central to their worldview. As a result, they have formed a strange coalition with Islamist groups who they have tried to enlist as part of their Trotskyist plan for ‘revolution’.[2] In recent years, the anti-war movement has been central to this marriage of revolutionary left-wing politics with the Islamist far-right. In Britain, the Stop the War Coalition has seen groups such as the Socialist Workers Party (SWP) and George Galloway’s ‘Respect’ party making common cause with supporters of Islamism and terrorist groups such as Hamas.

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=447

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Zillions of people:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/protesters-converge-waihopai-spy-base-3340131

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We wouldn’t be referring too one of those identity cards one needs to buy some of the drug we drink? How good is that ‘integrity’ of information when hundreds of cards are confiscated on attempted entry to licensed premises yet countless more ‘get through’. We turn fraud into a recreational sport. (besides every kid knows it’s easier to buy pot! no ID required)

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I gather that the original issue here is information on identity cards?

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> As we know BB is extoling the virtues of our surveillence society to the full and it seems that people like him are taken in by the mantra ‘War on Terrorism’ or in the eighties it was the ‘Cold War’.

And the puritanical war on that other thing! Altered States of Mind are not permitted, nor is discussion or collusion to do so. Death to Cognitive Liberty. So help me God! I shall so uphold the law!.

Yeah Right…..

The Green Party’s Drug Policy is where on this? Frog? Anyone?

2500 people were killed in Thailand (Search NZ News for “Police, Yabba and Drug Intelligence” and tell me that a normal person reading this wouldnt think that on good authority Yabba had killed them all. It didnt.

It was the State Police, their names were on a list! Some who died were children, mere collatoral damage in an end justifies the means kinda way.

Even the media is dishonest.

Same over the RSA and Cannabis. Even that was a cooked story!
(the Manager of the said RSA’s former profession? Wouldn’t have been locking up the occasional Christchurch pot smoker would it?.

Look at the evidence in the article, what Yabba? They havent found any yet! Now read the headline again. “New Meth Drug Rocks NZ” – Gilding the lilly a bit there, Mr Mills?

Hell this Yaba stuff is so dangerous and the ‘list makers and watchers’ have our interests at heart… i’d sell my soul for this kind of protection!

Well I have news for you, you just did.
Further, You sold it to Police Headquarters in exchange for a lie.

Yabba has been tracked by National Drug Intelligence ever since they first formed the Bureau. They even lied (to you) about that.

Those who exchange freedom for security deserve neither.

The Green Party are pretenders to human rights as long as drugs are off the agenda.

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As we know BB is extoling the virtues of our surveillence society to the full and it seems that people like him are taken in by the mantra ‘War on Terrorism’ or in the eighties it was the ‘Cold War’. I don’t know exactly what he stands for or whether he is just opposing the Greens for the he!l of it.

If his like-minded group (comrades!) are of the libertarian persuasion and adhere to ‘freedom’, ‘democracy’, and the great private enterprise system then the surveillence authorities that they fully support may very well backfire on them. One only has to look at National and ACT’s backers to see that they are very large monopolistic corporations who have formed themselves onto a global oligarchy. Their puppet governments may not necessarily support ‘private enterprise’, ‘freedom’ and ‘democracy’.

As for the percieved threats from those terrorists from the Islamic countries, well yes the threat is real, and yes they are carried out by fanatics. Why do these fanatics go around hurling bombs at planes, railway stations and embassies etc.?

BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CAUSE

The cause may be justified even if their actions are very wrong and the cause that comes to mind is Israels treatment of the Palistinians in West Bank and the Gaza Strip and the US’s uneven brokering and backhanded support. When these injustices are rectified the fanatics will have no cause, their followers will go back home and they will cease to be a threat to the west.

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jh

Civil liberites are universal in concept.

1 Family Support and WFF are programmes which both Labour and National have continued while in government. Their predecessor was Family Benefit, this policy has been around for decades and in some forms exists in all western nations. It’s about the concept of cross subsidy providing for family as the children will later work and provide for those in retirement.

2. Greens support political refugees, so does New Zealand it is government policy.

Economic migration (labour) occurs under our filling local skilled worker shortages. The Greens more than other parties favour educating local workers.

As for surveillance – no right of search and seizure without probable cause is a civil liberty from across centuries. No one is saying that where there is probable cause there should not be some interception of communications.

As to prisoners, Greens prefer rehabilitation with the loss of liberty.

As to Greens getting in the way of getting boy racers, how dare they … what were they thinking. Just goes to show those civil libertarians take some things far too seriously. I mean we all know Greens don’t really like people who drive cars, so to stick up for the rights of boy racers is a sign of a real committment to their civil liberties.

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Here’s another item for the general debate:
Since I saw poneke mentioned (favourably) by Big bro, I wondered what position the NZ Skeptics society take on the issue as (I think) Poneke and Dennis Dutton are members
I found links to a couple of interesting podcasts

Unwarranted skepticism; disbelief in a finite world
The Slippery Slope of Conspiracy Theories

and
Is Economics a Science or a Religion?
http://skeptics.org.nz/

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A sustainable society, as we know it, is as dependent on us retaining our civil liberities (which is a vital part of the democracy we have inherited across the generations of the emancipation of the people from government tyranny) as it is the environment on which our economy is based.

….
and its is every womans right to have as many children as is culturally appropriate and societies duty to support them if they don’t have the means to support themselves…. and it is labours right to move to which ever country they want to….. we shouldn’t read other peoples emails because it’s rude (even if they are discussing blowing up ‘planes)….. prisoners should be deprived of liberty and nothing else… [Green Party views?]

ps one I get a few boy racers in my street doing wheelies and since there’s one out there now, I’m throwing in a reminder that you Greens stimy any attempts to come down firmly on them.

ps, ps sustainability is something the greens dabble in.

ps,ps ps
I have been reading :
* Governing the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action By Elinor Ostrom and I think it has important implications for a discussion re management of the foreshore and seabed, but that can wait until the general debate.

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jh, you wonder what is the link between a sustainable society based on a sustainable economy and concern for protecting our civil liberties. A sustainable society, as we know it, is as dependent on us retaining our civil liberities (which is a vital part of the democracy we have inherited across the generations of the emancipation of the people from government tyranny) as it is the environment on which our economy is based.

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ASHES IN HIS MOUTH!!!

So Big Brother is in full support of the new surveillence authoritarian society that is gradually eroding our freedom of movement (and speech), if at the same time he extols the virtues of the great free-enterprise system then I am afraid his words will become ashes in his mouth.

I will tell you all why in the next post!!!

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who talks to ya when no one else will – you little green dynamo Bro…?
Sit here and tell me how we gonna beat the Aussies at Cricket eh?
without selecting you or i that is…

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Ha ha, yeah OK.

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