Comments on: A bizarre human rights appointment http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:16:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Owen McShane http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100081 Owen McShane Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:07:38 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100081 How strange. Two readers don't like apologies!

How strange. Two readers don’t like apologies!

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]]> By: Owen McShane http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100027 Owen McShane Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:53:13 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100027 My apologies. I did not mean to threadjack. I had just read the story about Pachauri when I read the opening posts on this thread and read it as a thread about conflicts of interest. Hence my opening sentence. I honestly did not see this story as about Global warming or climate science but about an appointment which seems to have ignored an obvious conflict of interest – and about the remarkable failure of the MSM to do any investigation until now.

My apologies. I did not mean to threadjack. I had just read the story about Pachauri when I read the opening posts on this thread and read it as a thread about conflicts of interest. Hence my opening sentence.

I honestly did not see this story as about Global warming or climate science but about an appointment which seems to have ignored an obvious conflict of interest – and about the remarkable failure of the MSM to do any investigation until now.

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]]> By: toad http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100021 toad Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:38:37 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100021 I see the story has now hit the MSM, with the <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10616912" rel="nofollow">NZ Herald running it</a> today. Well done No Right Turn for picking up on it first. And good to see the MSM giving a blogger credit for breaking a story for once.

I see the story has now hit the MSM, with the NZ Herald running it today.

Well done No Right Turn for picking up on it first. And good to see the MSM giving a blogger credit for breaking a story for once.

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]]> By: Gerrit http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100017 Gerrit Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:15:19 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100017 Owen, The link is not working The good doctor is even worse than Al Gore. At least Gore was working for himself, this guy works for the UN. And the UN wants to control the worlds ETS with power to enforce, if required, compliance. Yeah right. No wonder Copenhagen was doomed from the start, to many troughers making a buck out of ETS. <strong>[Frog: Gerrit - this is not a climate change thread. And yes, I know Owen started the threadjack. Please don't - there are plenty of threads to discuss climate change, Copenhagen and related issues on.]</strong>

Owen, The link is not working

The good doctor is even worse than Al Gore. At least Gore was working for himself, this guy works for the UN.

And the UN wants to control the worlds ETS with power to enforce, if required, compliance. Yeah right.

No wonder Copenhagen was doomed from the start, to many troughers making a buck out of ETS.

[Frog: Gerrit - this is not a climate change thread. And yes, I know Owen started the threadjack. Please don't - there are plenty of threads to discuss climate change, Copenhagen and related issues on.]

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]]> By: Mark http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100012 Mark Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:38:32 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100012 Sapient; I agree with a lot that you say on this subject - but we've had a discussion about 'uman Rights in NZ.....suffice to say that most people, never having had their rights tested, go around in a cloud of beleif that they are sheilded and protected by those 'Rights'. Those who have put that notion to the test have no such illusions.

Sapient; I agree with a lot that you say on this subject – but we’ve had a discussion about ‘uman Rights in NZ…..suffice to say that most people, never having had their rights tested, go around in a cloud of beleif that they are sheilded and protected by those ‘Rights’.
Those who have put that notion to the test have no such illusions.

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]]> By: Owen McShane http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100011 Owen McShane Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:36:23 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100011 How about this appointment for conflict of interest. Goodness me! In case you haven’t seen it. Dynamite! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals- of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html Another hero with feet of clay?

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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]]> By: Shunda barunda http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100010 Shunda barunda Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:27:59 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100010 "When I have a bad day I just have a tendency to take up the most absurd argument I can find, normally I win, here I very much doubt I will be able to." Ha!! blogs can be therapeutic can they not Sapient! :)

“When I have a bad day I just have a tendency to take up the most absurd argument I can find, normally I win, here I very much doubt I will be able to.”

Ha!! blogs can be therapeutic can they not Sapient! :)

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]]> By: Sapient http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100009 Sapient Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:11:04 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100009 Wtl & Samiuela, I was trying to dig myself a hole here. This one, unlike my normal holes, does not come with a pre-crafted staircase nor does it necessarily represent my views. When I have a bad day I just have a tendency to take up the most absurd argument I can find, normally I win, here I very much doubt I will be able to. I admit that the posistion I have taken regarding the human rights commission is untenable. My taking that posistion is not a result of my opposisition to the commission - something I think is needed - but the absence of anything more entertaining to debate on this blog (the atheist/agnostic debate follows the same rational). *This is me stating that I do not have a leg to stand on* (Though, I can see ways to win this but I cant really be bothered as it would be the equivalent to a large essay and it is not really winning that counts [certainly there would be nothing gained in this instance])

Wtl & Samiuela,

I was trying to dig myself a hole here. This one, unlike my normal holes, does not come with a pre-crafted staircase nor does it necessarily represent my views. When I have a bad day I just have a tendency to take up the most absurd argument I can find, normally I win, here I very much doubt I will be able to.

I admit that the posistion I have taken regarding the human rights commission is untenable. My taking that posistion is not a result of my opposisition to the commission – something I think is needed – but the absence of anything more entertaining to debate on this blog (the atheist/agnostic debate follows the same rational).

*This is me stating that I do not have a leg to stand on* (Though, I can see ways to win this but I cant really be bothered as it would be the equivalent to a large essay and it is not really winning that counts [certainly there would be nothing gained in this instance])

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]]> By: samiuela http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100002 samiuela Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:27:42 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100002 Sapient, You have an unusual view of the world. I am a union member, and if anything, I would characterise most union leaders as being pragmatic rather than motivated by ideology (I personally wish that union leadership were more concerned with ideology and were less pragmatic, but that is just my personal view). Your second point about membership of human rights organisations is truly bizarre. If one is concerned about human rights, don't you think it is natural to join organisations of like minded people? Or does the true supporter of human rights stay at home and do and say nothing?
Sapient,

You have an unusual view of the world. I am a union member, and if anything, I would characterise most union leaders as being pragmatic rather than motivated by ideology (I personally wish that union leadership were more concerned with ideology and were less pragmatic, but that is just my personal view).

Your second point about membership of human rights organisations is truly bizarre. If one is concerned about human rights, don’t you think it is natural to join organisations of like minded people? Or does the true supporter of human rights stay at home and do and say nothing?

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]]> By: wtl http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-100001 wtl Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:19:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-100001 Sapient - you have basically stated that Ms Noonan has various negative qualities based on (highly debatable) pre-conceived ideas about the organisations she has worked with. You give no examples of any of her actions that actually show these qualities. Give us an example of something she has done that is not 'caring about society at all' or when she has 'pushed her views onto others without caring about the damage done to society'. You will note that specific examples of Mr Neeson's actions were provided, which many will agree are an affront to human rights. In my opinion you are merely skirting around the issue. You don't want to mention particular examples because that will expose your real views, which I'm gathering are not at all pretty.

Sapient – you have basically stated that Ms Noonan has various negative qualities based on (highly debatable) pre-conceived ideas about the organisations she has worked with. You give no examples of any of her actions that actually show these qualities. Give us an example of something she has done that is not ‘caring about society at all’ or when she has ‘pushed her views onto others without caring about the damage done to society’. You will note that specific examples of Mr Neeson’s actions were provided, which many will agree are an affront to human rights.

In my opinion you are merely skirting around the issue. You don’t want to mention particular examples because that will expose your real views, which I’m gathering are not at all pretty.

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]]> By: Sapient http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99984 Sapient Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:12:12 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99984 Opps, didn't see that post before I responded. <blockquote> Ms Noonan came to the Commission from the position of Trade Union and Human Rights Co-ordinator with Education International. Based in Brussels for four years, she worked with the United Nations Human Rights Commission, the International Labour Organisation and other intergovernmental agencies and with education unions in the Balkans, in Africa and in Asia. She also has extensive experience in the New Zealand trade union movement. </blockquote> She has worked in various trade union positions. Being a heading member of a trade union indicates that one is motivated by ideology and doesn't really care anything about society at all. Being a member of several human rights organisations indicates one seeks to push their own views on others, often without caring about how those may damage society.

Opps, didn’t see that post before I responded.

Ms Noonan came to the Commission from the position of Trade Union and Human Rights Co-ordinator with Education International. Based in Brussels for four years, she worked with the United Nations Human Rights Commission, the International Labour Organisation and other intergovernmental agencies and with education unions in the Balkans, in Africa and in Asia. She also has extensive experience in the New Zealand trade union movement.

She has worked in various trade union positions. Being a heading member of a trade union indicates that one is motivated by ideology and doesn’t really care anything about society at all. Being a member of several human rights organisations indicates one seeks to push their own views on others, often without caring about how those may damage society.

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]]> By: Sapient http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99983 Sapient Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:07:58 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99983 I started this hoping for a near unwinnable debate that would challenge me to the extreme but now I just cant be bothered; its distracting me from trying to learn Java. Kevin continues to impress me though.

I started this hoping for a near unwinnable debate that would challenge me to the extreme but now I just cant be bothered; its distracting me from trying to learn Java.

Kevin continues to impress me though.

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]]> By: Kevin Hague http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99982 Kevin Hague Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:05:15 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99982 Sapient, you are the one who suggested that the Commission was filled with "nut balls", and you then characterised some of their decisions. And the best you can come up with is a sense that Ros Noonan has a history that you also characterise negatively, but again without examples! I've had a lot to do with the Commission over the years. There have occasionally been Commissioners I thought were a bit lightweight, but by and large, under both National-led and Labour-led governments, the calibre has been high and decision-making very sound. Brian Neeson seems an extraordinary appointment.
Sapient, you are the one who suggested that the Commission was filled with “nut balls”, and you then characterised some of their decisions. And the best you can come up with is a sense that Ros Noonan has a history that you also characterise negatively, but again without examples!

I’ve had a lot to do with the Commission over the years. There have occasionally been Commissioners I thought were a bit lightweight, but by and large, under both National-led and Labour-led governments, the calibre has been high and decision-making very sound. Brian Neeson seems an extraordinary appointment.

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]]> By: Sapient http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99979 Sapient Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:55:17 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99979 Nutballs? Frog, Toad, SPC, Delehunty, Bradford, etc. But if you want someone from the commission then why not the chief: I don't know her personally and have had no dealing with her but her history given on the site indicates a clear dedication to forcing her principles on others with little care for the effects on society.

Nutballs?

Frog, Toad, SPC, Delehunty, Bradford, etc.

But if you want someone from the commission then why not the chief:
I don’t know her personally and have had no dealing with her but her history given on the site indicates a clear dedication to forcing her principles on others with little care for the effects on society.

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]]> By: McTap http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99976 McTap Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:42:00 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99976 This might be just the appointment to facilitate this guys awakening from ignorance.

This might be just the appointment to facilitate this guys awakening from ignorance.

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]]> By: Kevin Hague http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99972 Kevin Hague Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:00:54 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99972 Sapient, suggest you check the Human Rights Act. It does allow for some discretion to the Proceedings Commissioner (not the position to which Neeson has been appointed) and there is a catch-all power for the Commission to report on such other human rights issues as it sees fit, but by and large the human rights law is highly specified, with the Act being quite specific and non-specific areas well-determined by case law. Perhaps you could refer to some of the specific "nut balls" you object to, or some decisions of the Human Rights Commission that illustrate your point?
Sapient, suggest you check the Human Rights Act. It does allow for some discretion to the Proceedings Commissioner (not the position to which Neeson has been appointed) and there is a catch-all power for the Commission to report on such other human rights issues as it sees fit, but by and large the human rights law is highly specified, with the Act being quite specific and non-specific areas well-determined by case law.

Perhaps you could refer to some of the specific “nut balls” you object to, or some decisions of the Human Rights Commission that illustrate your point?

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]]> By: Sapient http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99960 Sapient Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:55:05 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99960 SPC, No, there is a consensus among climate scientists but it is not a matter of consensus. There is a difference. As Einstein said, many signed said his work was wrong but if he realy was wrong it would take but one. It doesint matter how many people believe climate change exists or does not exist, it will not change the nature of reality as it is objective. Since rights are something formed by humans as a result of agreements between humans those rights are a matter of consensus.

SPC,

No, there is a consensus among climate scientists but it is not a matter of consensus. There is a difference. As Einstein said, many signed said his work was wrong but if he realy was wrong it would take but one. It doesint matter how many people believe climate change exists or does not exist, it will not change the nature of reality as it is objective. Since rights are something formed by humans as a result of agreements between humans those rights are a matter of consensus.

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]]> By: Mark http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99958 Mark Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:52:20 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99958 PS; The Health System has it's own Human Rights Commissioner and they are snowed with work - the Budget truly needs doubling there!

PS; The Health System has it’s own Human Rights Commissioner and they are snowed with work – the Budget truly needs doubling there!

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]]> By: SPC http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99956 SPC Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:51:21 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99956 Later Sapient - but for now, climate change is a consensus of scientists. The political consensus is the human rights law.

Later Sapient – but for now, climate change is a consensus of scientists.

The political consensus is the human rights law.

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]]> By: Mark http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/a-bizarre-human-rights-appointment/#comment-99955 Mark Mon, 21 Dec 2009 04:50:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8788#comment-99955 By International Western Standards - New Zealands Human Rights are Third World in nature - whether by discrimination, expedience, the overweening id - or a number of societal Factors. I've given up trying to understand NZ. Though I've been home ten years - it's still like the whole place has fallen in a hole. A Judge is Another Public Servant and must do their best by everyone in the Community to fulfill that Role - however, the Legal system here is so fraught with violations of Human Rights, it must be incredibly difficult to maintain true objectivity, much less get at the Truth.

By International Western Standards – New Zealands Human Rights are Third World in nature – whether by discrimination, expedience, the overweening id – or a number of societal Factors.
I’ve given up trying to understand NZ. Though I’ve been home ten years – it’s still like the whole place has fallen in a hole.
A Judge is Another Public Servant and must do their best by everyone in the Community to fulfill that Role – however, the Legal system here is so fraught with violations of Human Rights, it must be incredibly difficult to maintain true objectivity, much less get at the Truth.

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