Comments on: This is bigger than climate change. It is a battle to redefine humanity http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:17:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99542 bjchip Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:48:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99542 Tiger's much too wooden.

Tiger’s much too wooden.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99541 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:04:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99541 Jenny says ... http://www.thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18122009/ Phew! She's good!

Jenny says …

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18122009/

Phew! She’s good!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99540 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:55:14 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99540 Tiger's Catastrophe?

Tiger’s Catastrophe?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99535 bjchip Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:57:19 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99535 <i>Can a tiger cheeta cougar? </i> Only if it's really Lion. BJ

Can a tiger cheeta cougar?

Only if it’s really Lion.

BJ

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: fastbike http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99534 fastbike Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:05:31 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99534 BP said <blockquote>Seems to me the battle is between the UN and the bankers. The UN wants aid for the third world. The bankers want to keep the third world in its place, producing stuff the first world needs, but not expanding to such a point where they become a strategic threat.</blockquote> Gosh I actually clicked on the thumbs up button for BP. Progress.

BP said

Seems to me the battle is between the UN and the bankers. The UN wants aid for the third world. The bankers want to keep the third world in its place, producing stuff the first world needs, but not expanding to such a point where they become a strategic threat.

Gosh I actually clicked on the thumbs up button for BP. Progress.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: philip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99523 philip Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:04:13 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99523 We in the West have bought the myth that 'more is better' and we grasp for it as a drowning man gasps for air - because it ultimately doesn't deliver what it promises, just like any addiction. It's a mere momentary buzz. So, of course we can't live within limits. That would mean facing the truth - economic growth and consumerism don't work and we are left with our finiteness. No wonder I spend so much of my working day with depressed people, who have all the stuff in the world but are fundamentally disappointed and disillusioned.

We in the West have bought the myth that ‘more is better’ and we grasp for it as a drowning man gasps for air – because it ultimately doesn’t deliver what it promises, just like any addiction. It’s a mere momentary buzz. So, of course we can’t live within limits. That would mean facing the truth – economic growth and consumerism don’t work and we are left with our finiteness. No wonder I spend so much of my working day with depressed people, who have all the stuff in the world but are fundamentally disappointed and disillusioned.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 (+1)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99508 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:57:14 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99508 Lion Tiger, felin' ... pause ... ... ... .. nah! Can't match ya samiam!

Lion Tiger, felin’ … pause …
…
…
.. nah! Can’t match ya samiam!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 (+1)

]]> By: sofistek http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99505 sofistek Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:39:56 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99505 <blockquote>Hardly anyone among the official parties can accept the implications of living within our means, of living with tomorrow in mind.</blockquote>Sadly, it is not just the official parties. I rarely see evidence that someone accepts the implications of living within our means. Even on a green blog. That's why I have little hope, currently, that we can avoid collapse.
Hardly anyone among the official parties can accept the implications of living within our means, of living with tomorrow in mind.

Sadly, it is not just the official parties. I rarely see evidence that someone accepts the implications of living within our means. Even on a green blog. That’s why I have little hope, currently, that we can avoid collapse.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 (+1)

]]> By: samiam http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99503 samiam Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:28:59 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99503 Can a tiger cheeta cougar?

Can a tiger cheeta cougar?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99491 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:23:51 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99491 Tremain shamed. Another regretful Tory episode.

Tremain shamed. Another regretful Tory episode.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 (-1)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99489 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:22:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99489 Carter chastised - what a schmuck!

Carter chastised – what a schmuck!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 (-1)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99488 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:09:39 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99488 Is Groser, Bolger?

Is Groser, Bolger?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1 (-1)

]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99487 greenfly Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:09:07 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99487 Key out, Rudd in. Shame.

Key out, Rudd in. Shame.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 (+1)

]]> By: Valis http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99458 Valis Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:58:47 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99458 Certainly the case, bj. The best example in this country was the GE debate. Instead of the government science organisations being able to advise from a neutral position, they were instead the ones making applications for commercial activity, and of course hiding or otherwise being circumspect regarding their taxpayer funded research on the grounds of commercial sensitivity. What a ludicrous situation to be in.
Certainly the case, bj. The best example in this country was the GE debate. Instead of the government science organisations being able to advise from a neutral position, they were instead the ones making applications for commercial activity, and of course hiding or otherwise being circumspect regarding their taxpayer funded research on the grounds of commercial sensitivity. What a ludicrous situation to be in.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 (+3)

]]> By: katie http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99456 katie Thu, 17 Dec 2009 00:51:20 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99456 Nice post, Frog, if a little hard on the digestion. In a rush right now to make the post office, but I'll read the long link later, thanks for that. Keep keepin'em honest! :-)

Nice post, Frog, if a little hard on the digestion.
In a rush right now to make the post office, but I’ll read the long link later, thanks for that.

Keep keepin’em honest! :-)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 (0)

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99437 bjchip Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:22:13 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99437 Yeah, well AFAIK, NZ is one of the guilty-as-sin culprits with Crown Research Institutes requiring pay for play for all manner of data. This has been a common ploy of governments around the world. User-pays. It is understood by some of us as a means for relieving the wealthy of the tax burden of paying for government. Making government into a quasi-business. Making national parks the private domain of those who can pay the entry fees is one of the clearest expressions, but it applies to libraries and all other forms of public service. It is a popular notion among those who have repeatedly had their taxes reduced under the more conservative regimes of the past few decades. Its failings here are shown in the effects on science... but in most cases the people who suffer are simply poor and powerless. Their children are the ones who have no library to go to, no parks to camp in... there is a difference between a "nanny state" and the provision of public services that has been blurred in the rhetoric. We are losing something. It was lost in the US decades ago. I think we are learning a lesson here, perhaps too late.
Yeah, well AFAIK, NZ is one of the guilty-as-sin culprits with Crown Research Institutes requiring pay for play for all manner of data.

This has been a common ploy of governments around the world. User-pays. It is understood by some of us as a means for relieving the wealthy of the tax burden of paying for government. Making government into a quasi-business.

Making national parks the private domain of those who can pay the entry fees is one of the clearest expressions, but it applies to libraries and all other forms of public service. It is a popular notion among those who have repeatedly had their taxes reduced under the more conservative regimes of the past few decades. Its failings here are shown in the effects on science… but in most cases the people who suffer are simply poor and powerless. Their children are the ones who have no library to go to, no parks to camp in… there is a difference between a “nanny state” and the provision of public services that has been blurred in the rhetoric.

We are losing something. It was lost in the US decades ago. I think we are learning a lesson here, perhaps too late.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 (+4)

]]> By: Valis http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99432 Valis Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:12:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99432 <i>Any government which fails to share the fruits of such research with its citizens has no business collecting taxes in the first place.</i> Very social democratic of you. It was the National govt of the 90's that transformed the DSIR from a public good science organisation to a bunch of state owned but solely commercially focused organisations. So that's what you get when public good is narrowly defined as wealth creation.
Any government which fails to share the fruits of such research with its citizens has no business collecting taxes in the first place.

Very social democratic of you. It was the National govt of the 90′s that transformed the DSIR from a public good science organisation to a bunch of state owned but solely commercially focused organisations. So that’s what you get when public good is narrowly defined as wealth creation.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 (+6)

]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99419 bjchip Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:20:25 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99419 <i>Seems to me the battle is between the UN and the bankers. The UN wants aid for the third world. The bankers want to keep the third world in its place, producing stuff the first world needs, but not expanding to such a point where they become a strategic threat.</i> BP - you are SO right. The problem is that the bankers run the OECD. World leader sock puppets mouth the words, but the bankers run the world. THEY are the ones threatened by this. They have to give up some of their control over how wealth gets distributed (mostly to themselves) and they really REALLY do not like it.
Seems to me the battle is between the UN and the bankers. The UN wants aid for the third world. The bankers want to keep the third world in its place, producing stuff the first world needs, but not expanding to such a point where they become a strategic threat.

BP – you are SO right. The problem is that the bankers run the OECD. World leader sock puppets mouth the words, but the bankers run the world. THEY are the ones threatened by this. They have to give up some of their control over how wealth gets distributed (mostly to themselves) and they really REALLY do not like it.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 (+5)

]]> By: BluePeter http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99406 BluePeter Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:28:10 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99406 "Besides the fact that data sharing is virtually a requirement for good science, government sponsored research was paid for by the taxpayers. Therefore it belongs to us and should be freely available to the public. Any government which fails to share the fruits of such research with its citizens has no business collecting taxes in the first place." Nice.
“Besides the fact that data sharing is virtually a requirement for good science, government sponsored research was paid for by the taxpayers. Therefore it belongs to us and should be freely available to the public.

Any government which fails to share the fruits of such research with its citizens has no business collecting taxes in the first place.”

Nice.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5 (+3)

]]> By: jh http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/17/this-is-bigger-than-climate-change-it-is-a-battle-to-redefine-humanity/#comment-99402 jh Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:21:27 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8621#comment-99402 So we want to bring CO2 emissions back to 1990 levels? Between 1990 and 2004 our population increased 21% as dairy workers and gib stoppers poured in to Aotearoa, (ironically many feel, it's too dangerous to ride a bike). :?
So we want to bring CO2 emissions back to 1990 levels? Between 1990 and 2004 our population increased 21% as dairy workers and gib stoppers poured in to Aotearoa, (ironically many feel, it’s too dangerous to ride a bike).
:?

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 (+3)

]]>