I assume they are trying to do industrial style mono-culture by hand? That would be difficult. We need to change the idea that everyone needs to be fed by a few huge farms growing fields of the same plant. Nature does it better, with variety, no overt tilling and no bare land.

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sofistek, I too wouldn’t expect people to change their ways of doing things. Its always far easier to move the technology side in New Zealand rather trying to adapt Kiwi lifestyle to suit the purpose.

Now as I’m visiting the south east Asia (currently in Vietnam, I can just see how harder it is here for framers to do everything – people simply do not have any equipments or any machines. Many laborious tasks are all done by hand!)

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sofistek – of course, you are correct. Easy now, to say that we’re doing our bit, carry on as you were good farmers of New Zealand, we’ll get back to you with some Very Good Ideas. You anti-dairy crowd can just stfu.
Bleak.

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I heard an interview with a scientist about the Global Alliance and fear that the focus will be on trying to find the technology to keep emissions down (like introducing combating substances into ruminants). That is, the focus will be to maintain or increase output, whilst using technology to reduce emissions.

Technology is always assumed to be the answer, never lifestyle changes.

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The Danes are massive pig farmers and farm them in factories.
We are grass farmers.

Now now, I know a few Danes and they aren’t all that big.

But to get back to the topic on hand:

I think commenters above expecting such research to have goals of reducing overall carbon emissions as opposed to carbon emission intensity are being a bit unrealistic. It’s extraordinarily hard to propose R&D that does anything but reduce intensity.

R&D provide the tools, via ways to reduce emission intensity. Whether we will take any such intensity reductions and deploy them to reduce emissions while maintaining production, or whether we will use them as an excuse to up production, or whether (as is the case now) we’ll simply ignore any such technologies because farmers have no market incentives to use them isn’t something the science can tell you.

I do applaud Key for this. It’s a valuable way of building a toolkit to fight global warming. Now if he’d just do a bit more work on getting those tools used…

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Were

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The Danes are massive pig farmers and farm them in factories.
We are grass farmers.

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Those Danish numbers are impressive, why even bother with the Alliance, just copy the Danes..!

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Owen,

with every respect..

You have explained yourself. The relevant paragraph appears to state what I, in my own experience, realised many many moons ago: as to why I then no longer drove the very first japanese automobile—that being because later models are so much better and in so very many ways.

You are so correct, things improve. Including science’s need of specialism.. and humanity’s need of generalism. Its products an adequate partnership of both. Though not exclusively you will understand.

Should you need further assistance please allow me to suggest that your response’s to my requests do not commence from a presumption of my position being, like yours, of holding the answer. My question you see arose out of genuine curiosity. Which knows no answer until it receives it.

If I shouldn’t come across you prior Season’s Greetings.

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Salsy,

thanks for the swedish environment ministry’s press release. Further query led to the following:
http://www.naturvardsverket.se/en/In-English/Menu/Climate-change/Greenhouse-gas-emissions/Emissions-from-1990/
whereupon a bar chart breaking down emissions’ output 1990-through -present. Useful would be an enzed version. Is their one.. something similar..?
They also made the point of nitrous oxide being some 11 percent of total emissions.. and this I presume after a stock reduction to effect significant overall cattle emissions.

Elsewhere, Ms Fitzsimons also makes this point on stock reduction. Not exactly fontera-speak or, for that matter Minister Groser-speak (for those surmised or projected food production global growth markets). Still, we begin with a major global problem and mebbe first things come first.. in the balance of things to come.

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hj Ya reckon?
I’m betting that the organisms that are present in the present-day cow’s rumen are different from those an auroch lugged around. I’d like to see the development moving toward a more suitable diet – something more than rye grass, fescue and palm kernel.

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Seven Answers to Climate Contrarian Nonsense
Evidence for human interference with Earth’s climate continues to accumulate
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=seven-answers-to-climate-contrarian-nonsense&sc=SA_2009

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Grenfly says:

“Took millions of years to evolve the symbiotic relationship between the whenua here and its fauna. We changed all that in the geological blink of an eye. A cow will be a cinch. ”

Killing off the flightless birds doesn’t compare with altering a relationship such as a cow has with organisms inhabiting it’s rumen.

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The GE hounds will be pricking up their ears, if they were not aready fully pricked in anticipation.

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Jeanette’s statement on the Global Alliance: http://www.greens.org.nz/node/22451

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bjchip,
I agree with everything you say but all the more reason to take comfort from small victories.

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Owen

The current government has acted under urgency without necessity and without apparently listening to anyone far too often for us to ignore the arrogance that the corruption of power has imbued in it. I think they take what they actually hear on board, but they do not listen well and they give others very very little time to talk.

respectfully
BJ

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That swedish biogas train sounds good but electric trains are a better idea if there are no technological obstacles – like low tunnels. Keep the biogas for buses, trucks and other road vehicles which need longer range than is feasible for electric vehicles and for which trains are unsuitable.

More research on producing biogas from agricultural waste could reduce the agricultural emissions and help with our transport emissions and impending shortage of transport fuels.

Trevor.

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Sorry. Still waking up.
THat second line should have read “I am NOT quite sure what you are saying.”

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Tomfarmer
RE: The uncertainties continue.
I am quite sure what you are saying.
I have many times experienced the way a new theory or technology sounds simple and straightforward but uncertainties develop as related scientists and technologists become involved and look at their own fields.
Genetic Engineering is a good example. As we worked on the extreme thermophyles we found a whole lot of new uncertainties or fields of ignorance which made our first budgets look naive.
However, if you read the submission I think Freeman Dyson says it very well.
Think too about how Chaos theory effectively put paid to macro economic modelling – and my opinion to climate modelling.
We have focused on atmospheric exchanges and have paid little attention to all the other exchanges that take place in the biosphere with the result that most of the assumptions about agriculture are based on belief rather than on science. As Dyson has said time and time again “Its roots not shoots”. Yet how much attention have any of our climate scientists paid to the shoots – and the bacteria underground?
Speak to soil scientists and biologists and there is a heap of uncertainty about the role of pastures, trees, wetlands, bacteria, ruminants and so on. We have never had to focus on these before so why would a whole body of knowledge suddenly leap into our texts without someone doing the work.

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