by frog
General Debate, 15th Dec
Published: December 15, 2009
Comment via Facebook
60 Comments
Hide comments with a score of
or less
Hide comments with a score of or less
Leave a Reply
Please use 
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
I’m sick of it.
I want HONESTY. I think most people do.”
I’m with you on all this, but as far as following the money goes, carbon trading is a drop in the bucket compared with the huge profits generated by ‘business as usual’.
Like or Dislike:
6 
2 (+4)
“Cannibals with golf clubs”
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2009/12/climate-change-war-for-future.html
Wat, BluePeter, Owen and Bro! That’s you!
Like or Dislike:
4 
2 (+2)
Blue, I sense you are ready to ditch the duplicitous, lying politicians that you’ve been following and share our team of straight-foward, honest MP’s. We have confidence in ours because they have integrity. Looking foward to having you aboard.
Like or Dislike:
4 
3 (+1)
“our team of straight-foward, honest MP’s.”
The problem is that the Green MP’s (Jeanette aside) are not perceived as that. They are perceived as watermelons, socialists dressed up as greenies. The perception may be wrong, but it persists none-the-less.
A front line of green through-and-through MP’s is what is needed.
Like or Dislike:
4 
5 (-1)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
4 
29 (-25)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
4 
20 (-16)
Like or Dislike:
8 
2 (+6)
Like or Dislike:
7 
4 (+3)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
5 
26 (-21)
It’d be a hollow victory indeed. I very much want to see mankind rally to avert the disaster that an over-heated planet would become. In any case, we were discussing changes you could make. It was you who quoted Gandhi, wasn’t it?
Like or Dislike:
5 
3 (+2)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
4 
22 (-18)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
4 
23 (-19)
You are mistaking integrity for perfection. Politics is not a religion and politicians are not deities. You need to take a realistic look at the world and leave your idealism aside for the sake of meaningful debate. You’ve a reputation for being an ‘interrupter’, throwing spanners into the works for the sake of derailing discussion. It’s difficult to know if you do it to further some end, or simply because you are narcissistic and want the discussion to revolve, endlessly, around you. My money is on the latter.
Like or Dislike:
8 
2 (+6)
Perhaps, Greenfly. But people don’t just scroll past or vote down?
The issue of leadership is interesting. I do not expect perfection, I do expect a consistency between words and action.
I think we have a political class in New Zealand who see themselves as being above others. The strong desire to lead (a quality that should, by itself, disqualify people from leadership) is only trumped by a desire to implement a personal ideology. Obviously, it’s about power.
And power needs to be kept in check, don’t you think? The price of democracy is eternal vigilance?
Like or Dislike:
4 
2 (+2)
Like or Dislike:
9 
2 (+7)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
4 
23 (-19)
Like or Dislike:
7 
2 (+5)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
1 
16 (-15)
Like or Dislike:
6 
3 (+3)
Bro! You’ve smallerised yourself by your words.
Like or Dislike:
5 
2 (+3)
Good point Fly, would it be OK if I shot the apartheid flag?
Like or Dislike:
4 
11 (-7)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
3 
22 (-19)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
3 
25 (-22)
Peter Dunne will be a’quiver with excitement this morning, barely able to contain his quiff!
Like or Dislike:
2 
3 (-1)
Would this be the same useless Peter Dunne who you never said a word about when he was part of the Labour government?
Like or Dislike:
4 
11 (-7)
Like or Dislike:
5 
0 (+5)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
2 
21 (-19)
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Like or Dislike:
1 
26 (-25)
Like or Dislike:
6 
3 (+3)
You’ll have your ‘mute’ button on permanantly for John Key then Blue.
Like or Dislike:
6 
3 (+3)
Indeed.
Like or Dislike:
2 
3 (-1)
“why does it matter, to the ’seeker’ if others perceive them wrongly?”
Er um…lack of votes in elections is one small issue that springs to mind.
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
“..Now if we have a apartheid flag fly from a flag pole here in my home town..’
and which centre of provincial enlightenment do you live in bro..?
(and could someone tell the azure-male-genitalia that the song is called ..
..’london calling’…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
Like or Dislike:
3 
0 (+3)
http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/anderson/home.php
(Oops! Click ‘reload’ til the ‘scandalous emails’ cartoon appears)
Like or Dislike:
3 
0 (+3)
” that change needs to be a “whole of society” process rather than individual.
Socialist group-speak.”
Or a simple description of reality.
“I much prefer the Buddhist approach. You start with yourself.”
Yup – the Buddhist rulers of Burma like this approach too – telling their critics they should concentrate on earning merit to ensure a good reincarnation – and not to even think about changing society as a whole.
Gandhi said:
“If you want to make a change, be the best example of that change and others will follow”
…and look where that got him. Though actually whatever Gandhi said, he certainly practised collective struggle and organised a movement. If he’d relied solely on personal example India would still be a colony.
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
Signing the Copehagen agreement is the worse thing NZ or any other (EXCEPT THOSE CLOWNS THAT SUPPORT THE NEW WORLD ORDER/ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT COMMUNIST AGENDA THAT BENEFITS THE ELITISTS!) country could do!
If you don’t agree? Then ask yourself why 31,000+ scientists (YES THAT’S THIRTY ONE THOUSAND PLUS) have signed a petition OPPOSING IT!
Like or Dislike:
0 
9 (-9)
The driver of the NORML bus, ‘Dakta Green’ is going to court on monday (21st) facing cannabis related charges. Supporters of law reform are invited to a rally at Albert Park at 8am before marching to the Auckland district court.
He is using s9 of the Bill of Rights as his defence and is representing himself. He is apparently confident that he’ll be acquitted on all current charges.
http://thedaktory.org.nz/category/cannabis-on-trial/
Like or Dislike:
2 
0 (+2)
In keeping with the amount of virtual ink this item deserves, we’re going to try and keep this short. The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine held a press conference this morning to announce that 31,000 “scientists” have signed a petition rejecting claims of human-caused global warming.
According to OISM officials, the purpose of the Petition Project is to demonstrate that “the claim of ‘settled science’ and an overwhelming ‘consensus’ in favor of the hypothesis of human-caused global warming and consequent climate damage is wrong.”
So what does it take to be included among the 31,000 “experts” on the petition? Well, according to the OISM criteria, any undergraduate science degree will do just fine. Bet you never thought that BS you earned 20 years ago made you a qualified climatologist. Congratulations!
OISM also wants to let you know that 9,021 of the signers hold PhDs. They don’t specify what the doctorates are in, but they repeat that figure quite a bit, as if it means something. Since the group was nice enough to list all 31,000 signers, including the dead people, let’s take a look at the qualifications of three randomly-selected “climate experts.”
* W. Kline Bolton, M.D. is a professor of medicine and Nephrology Division Chief at the University of Virginia. Nephrology deals with the study of the function and diseases of the kidney.
* Zhonggang Zeng is one of the 9,000 with a PhD. He is a professor of mathematics at Northeastern Illinois University. His most recent publication is entitled “Computing multiple roots of inexact polynomials.”
* Hub Hougland is a dentist in Muncie, Indiana. He was inducted into the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame last year.
http://www.ecogeek.org/ecogeeks/1654
“Considering you only need a PhD and the field isn’t relevant. I’m surprised they only got so few. “
Like or Dislike:
2 
1 (+1)
Nice fisk jh.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Climate myths: Many leading scientists question climate change
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11654-climate-myths-many-leading-scientists-question-climate-change.html
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
I wasn’t suggesting ditching them, just that the Green party needs to be focused on green. But then many of us have been harping on about that for a looong time now.
Green Greenz, campaigning on green issues, it’s so simple.
Really.
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
And a counter to ‘Climategate’
‘Deniergate’
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
samiam – there’s alot of that going on right now, you’ll doubtless have noted.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
As you say, Samiam, a long-standing discussion. At the risk of opening another iteration of the same discussion, I wonder how you view the calls from the developing world for developed nations to take bigger emissions cuts in order to enable everyone to achieve an acceptable quality of life, and to provide funding for climate change mitigation in developing nations?
As you know, the Green Party has four foundations for all our policies (ecological wisdom, social responsibility, non-violence and appropriate decision-making). In fact I regard them as being fundamentally intertwined and mutually supporting. The international example I have raised illustrates this idea: unless the world works to achieve greater social and economic equity, then there is no prospect of taking effective action to limit climate change to 2 degrees warming.
Like or Dislike:
3 
1 (+2)
Guys – just wanted to let you know – the go-ahead for the $1bn highways projects that Steven Joyce gave today, combined with the last-minute cancellation of the Sustainable Management Fund, the ETS and the mining projects are all contributing to the absolute joke that has become NZ’s clean, green, international brand.
Good luck, because while you argue about climate change with the communist conspiracy minded, NZ is being damaged on the international scene better than any of the imaginary agent provocateurs invented on the far right could ever manage.
Like or Dislike:
3 
1 (+2)
Yes Chris – the Sustainable Farming Fund news reached us yesterday – seems it’s no longer needed, for f*cks sake! Sustainable Farming – it must ring like a warning bell to the National Party – SUSTAINABLE!! Warning, warning!!
Environment Centre Funding – how much life do you reckon that’s got in it?
Dirty, greedy, destructive oafs.
Like or Dislike:
2 
2 (0)
to the woe-betiders (when inaction about you know what) causes hell and high water to converge us all and at your considerable expense, there was a time when today’s professed 31000 were fewer in number and aka practitioners of scientism. This, believe you me, a most kind description of them. That aside not even professed growth to the above number will raise their value. More than one tiny bit of the value of a climate scientist. Put simply: 31000 PSs < 1 climate scientist. That's correct, the decision's in, go check that word in your English dictionary..
another ps — this to known readers — cleared dataswine last evening.. been here before.. dataswarm sounds much but navigable.. likely eta line due friday.
and if that was the meat in this sandwich I'd finish here endorsing Keven Hague — post Copenhagen business-as-usual is not the way forward.. but then in their heart of sentient hearts and minds I'm pretty sure everyone here knows this.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
hey, let me try that one again..! the comment.. sandwich style.. eaten!! in a cyber hole..? huh
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
tom – release the sympatic oscillometre and veer away from the sun!
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
G/fly,
gotchu !
ps: seriously, the meat of that comment between two thick slabs of hovis(that’s small brown, see, not sunburned) went awol.. still I’m pleased you’ve gotten it. In short an expected eta line is on for friday. yeah, eta, not ets.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
Did anybody see the piece on Close Up tonight on the MAcKenzie factory farms? What do you reckon? All looked pretty idyllic! What was missing from the story?
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
The induced calves that are delivered dead, en masse, in order that the cows come into milk?
Like or Dislike:
0 
1 (-1)
Samiam; Artists couldn’t paint rainbows if they kept the colours seperate, yellow has to merge into blue to make GREEN.
You seem to put things into pidgen holes; the capitalists for this party, the socialists for that party and the environmentalists for the Green Party etc.
To build a solid foundation on integrity takes many years and yes to take a few short cuts to gain votes by dumping socialism to appease the centre right to to grudgingly support the environmental agenda, will only prove to be a short sighted victory that will end in desaster. Irish Greens is a good example.
Try to think how pollution problems came about in the first place, the industrial revolution in England that braught about the land enclosures, high density population to cities and the mass stripping of forrests and high use of coal that is still going on today.
And the cause? PROFIT !!!!
Profit is a two edged sword, on a small scale it stimulates enterprise but it also stimulates the greed factor and quite frankly if that is not adderssed then the eco system of this planet is fu8ked.
That is why I am a Green Socialist and damnad proud of it!!!!
Like or Dislike:
1 
1 (0)
Why Wishart outpoles Morgan –
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227115.500-humans-prefer-cockiness-to-expertise.html
… explains a lot when you think about it.
BJ
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)
how about a fresh thread..?..frog..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
bchip says:
“Why Wishart outpoles Morgan – ”
if you consider the smacking debate TV polls were inline with other polls whereas the Close up result was too good to be true. For all we know the results could have been reversed. Let’s face it some sections of the community are desperate to put a spanner in the works.
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
green shoots Phil? Promise of things to come..
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
In the UK, the course is to do the exact opposite of what Brash and Douglas would recommend.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8411984.stm
Like or Dislike:
0 
0 (0)
FROG!!!!
Fer Crying out loud! This isn’t even on the front page any more!!! Another GENERAL thread if you please?
Thanks
BJ
Like or Dislike:
1 
0 (+1)