Comments on: Gold mining leaves Waihi deprived http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/ hopping along the corridors of power Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:16:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Alterity http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98503 Alterity Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:34:27 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98503 The benefits outweigh the costs in this case. There are other more pressing issues that need to be addressed in my opinion.

The benefits outweigh the costs in this case. There are other more pressing issues that need to be addressed in my opinion.

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]]> By: dlr http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98459 dlr Sun, 06 Dec 2009 23:34:44 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98459 Frog your wrong! Waihi has done well from the mine. I moved to Waihi several years before the Mine was re-opened, and even climbed the hill. (I recall it was mostly overgrown with gorse and pine trees). And as I went to college I watched the hill become a hole. The socio-economic issues and effects where there long before the mine was reopened, and have remained largely unaddressed. However I believe it has provided opportunities and employment for many unskilled workers who were willing to work. The biggest issue for me was Waihi had and still has little opportunity for the school leaver except mostly low paid unskilled work with low opportunity for upskilling. All Tertiary education required leaving town, and most that did leave for Tertiary studies including me didn't come back (except for holidays). Frog. Waihi will suffer more from the closure of the mine then it ever did from it's opening (both times round). Even the environment has improved with a clean up of many of the early mining sites to make them safe and accessible for tourists. This wouldn't have happened without NWG's backing and investment.

Frog your wrong!

Waihi has done well from the mine.

I moved to Waihi several years before the Mine was re-opened, and even climbed the hill. (I recall it was mostly overgrown with gorse and pine trees). And as I went to college I watched the hill become a hole.

The socio-economic issues and effects where there long before the mine was reopened, and have remained largely unaddressed. However I believe it has provided opportunities and employment for many unskilled workers who were willing to work.

The biggest issue for me was Waihi had and still has little opportunity for the school leaver except mostly low paid unskilled work with low opportunity for upskilling. All Tertiary education required leaving town, and most that did leave for Tertiary studies including me didn’t come back (except for holidays).

Frog. Waihi will suffer more from the closure of the mine then it ever did from it’s opening (both times round). Even the environment has improved with a clean up of many of the early mining sites to make them safe and accessible for tourists.

This wouldn’t have happened without NWG’s backing and investment.

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]]> By: frog http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98437 frog Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:44:12 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98437 There was a clean-up of off topic comments. Sorry for any confusion.

There was a clean-up of off topic comments. Sorry for any confusion.

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]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98433 bjchip Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:31:29 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98433 Hmmm... my background is showing. I have only ever seen the sites with tailings problems and pollution issues :-) Of course you are correct. They haven't always used the crush & chemical extraction methods. respectfully BJ

Hmmm… my background is showing. I have only ever seen the sites with tailings problems and pollution issues :-) Of course you are correct. They haven’t always used the crush & chemical extraction methods.

respectfully
BJ

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]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98345 kahikatea Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:26:11 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98345 bjchip wrote: "Gold mining has always involved both cyanide and mercury afaik." I understood that the first use of mercury in gold mining anywhere in the world was in the Coromandel about 100 years ago. Gold miners in 19th century Otago and Westland didn't use mercury.

bjchip wrote:

“Gold mining has always involved both cyanide and mercury afaik.”

I understood that the first use of mercury in gold mining anywhere in the world was in the Coromandel about 100 years ago. Gold miners in 19th century Otago and Westland didn’t use mercury.

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]]> By: bjchip http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98342 bjchip Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:13:01 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98342 Gold mining has always involved both cyanide and mercury afaik. You really need an <a title="" href="http://aviris.jpl.nasa.gov/" rel="nofollow">AVIRIS</a> flyover of the area. BJ

Gold mining has always involved both cyanide and mercury afaik. You really need an AVIRIS flyover of the area.

BJ

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]]> By: Jezza http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98330 Jezza Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:47:26 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98330 The Tiwai point doesn't only employ 1000 people it adds 4% - 5% of our GDP and runs on low emission, renewable electricity (there are worse ways to smelt aluminium say coal fired plants), similar percentage of GDP attributable to Glenbrook and again for mining... I want to protect our environment too but any politican that takes 15% from our GDP to do it is out 3 years later and probably never back in again...

The Tiwai point doesn’t only employ 1000 people it adds 4% – 5% of our GDP and runs on low emission, renewable electricity (there are worse ways to smelt aluminium say coal fired plants), similar percentage of GDP attributable to Glenbrook and again for mining…

I want to protect our environment too but any politican that takes 15% from our GDP to do it is out 3 years later and probably never back in again…

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]]> By: Drakula http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98326 Drakula Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:46:27 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98326 To Illustrate my point further go to 'No Right Turn'. They are now using cyanide delightfull

To Illustrate my point further go to ‘No Right Turn’. They are now using cyanide delightfull

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]]> By: Drakula http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98324 Drakula Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:11:02 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98324 The politicians will be right in the miners pocket Jezza that is why they don't pay royalties and I doubt if they pay the full 30% tax. Look at Rio Tinto (formerly Comalco) at Manapouri and how they have completely rorted the system all these years on the pretext of being a large employer at the expence of 340,000 homes of power it uses. The large gold mines will be so mechanised as to not be very dependent on labour so it will not make that much difference to the economy of Waihi. The process of seperating gold dust from the fine sand requires murcury, gold attracts to mercury and forms into an amalgam. To seperate the gold from the mercury it is necesary to heat the amalgum to evaporate the mercury. This needs to be done at very long arms lenth. Gold mining is not a very clean industry and it is causing a lot of environmental damage around the world.

The politicians will be right in the miners pocket Jezza that is why they don’t pay royalties and I doubt if they pay the full 30% tax.

Look at Rio Tinto (formerly Comalco) at Manapouri and how they have completely rorted the system all these years on the pretext of being a large employer at the expence of 340,000 homes of power it uses.

The large gold mines will be so mechanised as to not be very dependent on labour so it will not make that much difference to the economy of Waihi.

The process of seperating gold dust from the fine sand requires murcury, gold attracts to mercury and forms into an amalgam. To seperate the gold from the mercury it is necesary to heat the amalgum to evaporate the mercury. This needs to be done at very long arms lenth.

Gold mining is not a very clean industry and it is causing a lot of environmental damage around the world.

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]]> By: jh http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98285 jh Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:43:43 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98285 Gold and silver aren't money; money is the trust we have that a currency will not be debased.

Gold and silver aren’t money; money is the trust we have that a currency will not be debased.

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]]> By: photonz1 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98269 photonz1 Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:55:56 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98269 The report says that if the mine closes there will be a lot of job losses, not only from the mine, but also from the rest or the towns businesses - possibly up to the same number of extra losses as from the mine. And frog tries to paint a picture of a town that would be better off without the mine - that's really misleading and not what the report or the townspeople say. Frog tries to blame the mine for low house prices, but the report says if the mine closes, house prices could fall (with around 200 houses coming onto market compared to 70 in a normal year), 10% of the town will leave, unemployment will spike, social services will be stressed, schools will be less viable etc etc, Newmont spend over $50 million per year to run the mine - take that out of a small town like Waihi - and things will improve????
The report says that if the mine closes there will be a lot of job losses, not only from the mine, but also from the rest or the towns businesses – possibly up to the same number of extra losses as from the mine.

And frog tries to paint a picture of a town that would be better off without the mine – that’s really misleading and not what the report or the townspeople say.

Frog tries to blame the mine for low house prices, but the report says if the mine closes, house prices could fall (with around 200 houses coming onto market compared to 70 in a normal year), 10% of the town will leave, unemployment will spike, social services will be stressed, schools will be less viable etc etc,

Newmont spend over $50 million per year to run the mine – take that out of a small town like Waihi – and things will improve????

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]]> By: Jezza http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98264 Jezza Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:02:33 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98264 What a misleading topic, I just read the report and it is about how the closure of the mine would affect the social and economic indicators of the residents it doesn't examine the mine's current affect on those social and economic indicators in any way, the only reason they've looked at them is to have baseline for future comparison, the report in no way states the mine is the cause of these poor indicators... Why have they not been paying royalties..? Surely they are paying their 30% corporate tax..? If so it is the fault of government not investing enough in Waihi, surely it's not the mining companies job to provide a teritary education centre the article states it's lacking (does Waihi really have the population to support a tertary education centre..?) Did the mine cause people to drink and take drugs, is the article implying this to be the case, a mine made them drink..? I think examining exactly how harmful mines (in particular open cast mines) may be is very important but high-jacking a report and claiming it says something it doesn't is harmful to this goal... I think these articles would have more power if they showed a direct link between a mine and the current and social and economic problems rather than saying there's a mine there and problems, must be the mine's fault and using an almost unrelated report in an attempt of obfuscation... For those interested in what the report actually says here are some extracts: "On one hand, the development of a tourism focus and investments in local businesses over the last five years has created a sense of economic activity and optimism, with several people commenting that the town was attracting interest from elsewhere: “I have heard of people looking to move their business to town because of its ‘go-forwardness’”." On the mine's closure; "There were few suggestions amongst those interviewed that Waihi would experience a major impact, with most believing that the town would adjust gradually and relatively smoothly." The most common response from residents interviewed: "The most common response again suggested that mining should continue as long as possible."
What a misleading topic, I just read the report and it is about how the closure of the mine would affect the social and economic indicators of the residents it doesn’t examine the mine’s current affect on those social and economic indicators in any way, the only reason they’ve looked at them is to have baseline for future comparison, the report in no way states the mine is the cause of these poor indicators…

Why have they not been paying royalties..?

Surely they are paying their 30% corporate tax..? If so it is the fault of government not investing enough in Waihi, surely it’s not the mining companies job to provide a teritary education centre the article states it’s lacking (does Waihi really have the population to support a tertary education centre..?)

Did the mine cause people to drink and take drugs, is the article implying this to be the case, a mine made them drink..?

I think examining exactly how harmful mines (in particular open cast mines) may be is very important but high-jacking a report and claiming it says something it doesn’t is harmful to this goal… I think these articles would have more power if they showed a direct link between a mine and the current and social and economic problems rather than saying there’s a mine there and problems, must be the mine’s fault and using an almost unrelated report in an attempt of obfuscation…

For those interested in what the report actually says here are some extracts:

“On one hand, the development of a tourism focus and investments in local businesses over the last five years has created a sense of economic activity and optimism, with several people commenting that the town was attracting interest from elsewhere: “I have heard of people looking to move their business to town because of its ‘go-forwardness’”.”

On the mine’s closure;
“There were few suggestions amongst those interviewed that Waihi would experience a major impact, with most believing that the town would adjust gradually and relatively smoothly.”

The most common response from residents interviewed:
“The most common response again suggested that mining should continue as long as possible.”

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]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98259 greenfly Fri, 04 Dec 2009 08:28:34 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98259 AMF! (Variation of OOMPH!) The sound Gerry emits as he hauls himself out of his couch and off to Parliament, where he switches to HARRUMPH!! and OOF!(the Hawaian version) is response to any question directed at him. How about 'rat-a-tat-tat' - the sound of a gatling gun shooting a blimp out of the sky? "OOMPH! <b> WHOOMPH! </b> "

AMF! (Variation of OOMPH!) The sound Gerry emits as he hauls himself out of his couch and off to Parliament, where he switches to HARRUMPH!! and OOF!(the Hawaian version) is response to any question directed at him.

How about ‘rat-a-tat-tat’ – the sound of a gatling gun shooting a blimp out of the sky?

“OOMPH! WHOOMPH! “

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]]> By: tomfarmer http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98253 tomfarmer Fri, 04 Dec 2009 07:18:04 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98253 idiot savant @ nrt.blogspot.com has more on this..

idiot savant @ nrt.blogspot.com has more on this..

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]]> By: tomfarmer http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98251 tomfarmer Fri, 04 Dec 2009 06:58:01 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98251 G/fly, golly, tack and attack between us — where will this end! <i>butter</i> could substitute for <i>better</i> but I heard it is known these days as AMF - anhydrous milk fat - a mouthful and just what gerry looks capable of.. you think? BTW: there was an item on Checkpoint(RNZ) not too long after with a guy seeking an investment partner or something. Apparently he'd gotten the permit - mateships influential do this kind of thing - and all they needed to go chase the gold price was an investor.. oddly I'd say because whatever they start out doing will always lag the price.. and this is hardly a spot price market anymore.. which has me say that whatever they think they are going for, the bright investor will cost them a gold arm and leg unless large volumes are on offer. Looks better asset in the ground to me. Which does not resile from my opinion re kite-flying.. but don't tell gerry I told you so.. :-)

G/fly,
golly, tack and attack between us — where will this end!

butter could substitute for better but I heard it is known these days as AMF – anhydrous milk fat – a mouthful and just what gerry looks capable of.. you think?
BTW: there was an item on Checkpoint(RNZ) not too long after with a guy seeking an investment partner or something. Apparently he’d gotten the permit – mateships influential do this kind of thing – and all they needed to go chase the gold price was an investor..

oddly I’d say because whatever they start out doing will always lag the price.. and this is hardly a spot price market anymore.. which has me say that whatever they think they are going for, the bright investor will cost them a gold arm and leg unless large volumes are on offer. Looks better asset in the ground to me.

Which does not resile from my opinion re kite-flying.. but don’t tell gerry I told you so.. :-)

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]]> By: frog http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98237 frog Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:53:11 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98237 fixed, thanks fin

fixed, thanks fin

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]]> By: greenfly http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98234 greenfly Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:29:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98234 nommopilot - nice work! Will he be an island or a continent? tomfarmer - sharp on attack, eh tomfarmer! Yours is an interesting non-Devil's Advocate idea and not outside of the realms of possibility. I thought <i> 'butter </i> nature' might have suited as well.

nommopilot – nice work! Will he be an island or a continent?

tomfarmer – sharp on attack, eh tomfarmer! Yours is an interesting non-Devil’s Advocate idea and not outside of the realms of possibility.
I thought ‘butter nature’ might have suited as well.

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]]> By: fin http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98229 fin Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:43:35 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98229 Does the 'social impact' link work?. Maybe the problem is my (employer's) computer

Does the ‘social impact’ link work?. Maybe the problem is my (employer’s) computer

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]]> By: tomfarmer http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98225 tomfarmer Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:17:09 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98225 Sharp as a tack, eh greenfly! But allow me suggest another possibility here. And no, before I make this known I am not, repeat NOT, playing devil's advocate. To wit, all of Gerry's announcements about breaking territorial assets from schedule 4 amount to kite-flying — for leverage on the world stage. Presently so very intense in, on and upon enzed. Like I said, not in support the contention he is attempting, merely putting this out there. After all, Minister Gerry would have a <b>better</b> nature. Personal nature that it. Why else is he in the <b> better</b> cabinet. Or, waitta minute, is that <b> brighter</b> now..?

Sharp as a tack, eh greenfly!

But allow me suggest another possibility here. And no, before I make this known I am not, repeat NOT, playing devil’s advocate.

To wit, all of Gerry’s announcements about breaking territorial assets from schedule 4 amount to kite-flying — for leverage on the world stage. Presently so very intense in, on and upon enzed.

Like I said, not in support the contention he is attempting, merely putting this out there. After all, Minister Gerry would have a better nature. Personal nature that it. Why else is he in the better cabinet. Or, waitta minute, is that brighter now..?

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]]> By: nommopilot http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/04/gold-mining-leaves-waihi-deprived/#comment-98218 nommopilot Fri, 04 Dec 2009 01:44:30 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/?p=8221#comment-98218 <i>"Gerry Brownlee’s absurd aspiration to be Australia"</i> it's not so absurd. I think Gerry's well on his way to becoming Australia. the mining council just needs to shout him a few more dinners out and he'll be there...
“Gerry Brownlee’s absurd aspiration to be Australia”

it’s not so absurd. I think Gerry’s well on his way to becoming Australia. the mining council just needs to shout him a few more dinners out and he’ll be there…

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