by Russel Norman
I’m sitting in the House as we debate the bill watering down the emission tradings scheme. News has come through about the Maori Party membership revolt against the MPs voting for the bill.
Social Credit (they changed their name to the Democrats later) destroyed themselves in the ’80s when they voted for the Clyde high dam empowering bill against the wishes of their members and voters.
And now it seems the Maori Party is facing a similar moment of truth.
Hekia Parata from National has been given the job of sitting next to Te Ururoa Flavell in the House to make sure the Maori Party do what they promised in their dirty deal. Now he’s been taken outside to be leaned on in private.
Update 11.40 am. Moving to vote on Part One. Maori Party and National Party voting tightly together to increase greenhouse emissions and taxpayer subsidies.
Update 11.48. Nats, Maori Party and Act vote against our amendments to increase transparency around the allocation of free emission credits so that the public can see who is getting free money from the taxpayer.
Update 4.00pm. National has closed down the debate. Nicky Wagner, that great blue-green, moved the motion to stop the debate. Nats and Maori Party voted to stop the debate and go to a vote.
Published in Environment & Resource Management by Russel Norman on Wed, November 25th, 2009
More posts by Russel Norman | more about Russel Norman
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
E tu tika ana Te Ururoa!
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Edward Woodwood has died, so there’s a space in the Wickerman for Peter Dunne!
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Aint it strange that we’re in agreement over this one, albeit for different reasons.
The ETS is a crock.
Go Maori Party!
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Go the Maori Party (flaxroots, not elite faction, that is).
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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BP
If we wiped the entire CRU and Michael Mann out of existence there would still be all the warming and all the problem. Don’t even re-examine. Just throw out the lot. The problem is .all.still.there.
You are overreaching in your conclusion.
BJ
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And this ETS *IS* a crock. Which is a rather unanimous opinion except for National and some members of the Maori party. Which is going to be one busted up bunch of people once the dust settles and they realize how they were sold a bill of goods.
BJ
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Nope!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3095679/Maori-Party-will-vote -for-ETS-Flavell
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It’s a disgraceful episode in our political history.
Both the National and Maori parties should hang their heads in shame.
(letter-to-the-editor-in-the-making. Comments welcome).
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Climate change: Not a porkfest
National and the Maori Party have reached a deal on the ETS – and its not the pork-fest expected. According to the list of agreed measures, the core of the deal is:
an extra $24 million for the home insulation scheme, targeted specifically at low-income homes. EECA will be asked to work closely with iwi in delivery of this programme – something they should arguably be doing anyway.
a Treaty clause in the ETS legislation, with a specific requirement to consult on forestry, fishing, and agricultural allocations, as well as any decision to change the point of obligation for agriculture, and on future targets.
A side-deal [PDF] with Ngai Tahu and four other iwi to prevent them suing over bad faith in their Treaty settlements, in which they will get a 70-year lease on 35,000 hectares of DoC land and 100 percent of any carbon credits earned for the period of the lease. This isn’t as generous as it sounds. After all, the whole point of forest “credits” is that they aren’t – they’re borrowing, not income, and every credit “earned” must be repaid when the trees are cut down. So, if they engage in forestry, their net carbon earnings will be zero (and taking carbon at the end of it means leaving the more valuable trees behind).
Two members of the iwi leadership group will get an all-expenses-paid junket to Copenhagen, courtesy of the taxpayer.
Non-preferential iwi involvement in Doc’s program to encourage afforestation on crown land.
Consultation on complementary measures.
Only two of these are really “pork” – and one is technically valueless (or rather, the only value is the lease, not the carbon). As for the rest, its perfectly acceptable. The down-side however is that the party has agreed to vote in lock-step with the government on the rest of the bill [PDF], including “all procedural motions and SOP’s advanced by other parties”. Which means those other amendments which would fix the scheme are dead in the water. So, when our taxes rise or our public services are cut to pay for the massive subsidies to polluters in the scheme, we’ll have the Maori Party to thank for it.
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Oh right, so not a porkfest but still transfers billions from the people to the elite. Hmm
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Congress May Probe Leaked Global Warming E-Mails
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/24/taking_liberties/entry5761180. shtml
Even the warming zealot Monbiot has conceded the point:
“It’s no use pretending that this isn’t a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging. I am now convinced that they are genuine, and I’m dismayed and deeply shaken by them.
Yes, the messages were obtained illegally. Yes, all of us say things in emails that would be excruciating if made public. Yes, some of the comments have been taken out of context. But there are some messages that require no spin to make them look bad. There appears to be evidence here of attempts to prevent scientific data from being released, and even to destroy material that was subject to a freedom of information request.
Worse still, some of the emails suggest efforts to prevent the publication of work by climate sceptics, or to keep it out of a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. I believe that the head of the unit, Phil Jones, should now resign. Some of the data discussed in the emails should be re-analysed.”
“I apologise. I was too trusting of some of those who provided the evidence I championed. I would have been a better journalist if I had investigated their claims more closely.”
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The Odious Wat!
Nothing snarky to say about Jeanette today Wat?
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That is very old news at this point…. you are not keeping up very well. Go back to the old IPCC thread to see what else has been said… and DO please read the REST of what Monbiot said.
respectfully
(because when he is good we should not beat him up Greenfly…
even though he DID use the word zealot)
BJ
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He’s a broken record. I used to wonder what wat would say if he didn’t have the hockey stick to flog, dead horse style. I guess we’ll have to hear about emails now until we’re under water, no matter the truth of what they mean. Like a creationist really.
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Monbiot – he then goes on to take the piss out of those of you who dwell in that closed loop self sustaining outrage generating ecosystem fuelled by ignorance and scientists call the Troll Phenomenon.
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bjchip – re wat and his ilk … we’re so terrible kind to those who insult our MPs, aren’t we. We forgive them the moment they stop. Back to square one with the likes of Wat, Bluepeter, Bro (I think of him as ‘Ken’), Shunda et al. I’ve just watched ‘Gandhi’ again and note that he had a very good memory.
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I’m not FORGETTING any of it Greenfly. But behaviour modification for doesn’t work unless you are consistent. Maybe it is hopeless, but that does not mean I should not make the effort.
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Perhaps, by chance, at the Reptile House at Wellington Zoo?
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Wat covers the Rooms….who do you see in the odd room there Wat?
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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Washington Times has been pretty bad for a long time, and the explanation they called “lame” actually was correct. Mann is wrong on a number of other things in these records but this is a misreading which is inevitable given their editor’s lack of understanding in the past.
Which result is EXACTLY the reason why I think Jones and Mann have to go. Not because it isn’t happening, or actual science was faked, or because people who have watched carefully can’t keep track of the actual science.. but because EVERYONE who is NOT watching carefully will simply not be able to understand or accept the actual science anymore.
Have a look at what I said in the IPCC thread here or in the comments on RealClimate if you can stand going there. The “context” thread. Knock yourself out.
The actual science isn’t broken. At least two scientists are… or should be.
BJ
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Kaitiakitanga?
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mcol – Ko kaitiakitanga te patai, te whakautu ranei?
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Both!
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bj,
It is much bigger than that.
This powerful and self-serving clique has been manipulating the whole peer-review process and ensuring that contradictory papers are suppressed. It deleted data which did not fit with its agenda. And then it declared victory.
That’s how your “consensus” was fabricated.
Only a root-and-branch investigation can get to the bottom of this and, in some new and transparent way, all the science has to be evaluated and published; not just the stuff that has been distorted to fit the agenda.
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Rite!
Naianei… pehea?
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“Back to square one with the likes of Wat, Bluepeter, Bro (I think of him as ‘Ken’), Shunda et al.”
Oh be nice!! At least I only criticise those that deserve it
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Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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No Wat… it isn’t
http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/a6zdw/summary_of_notable_emai ls_from_the_cru_hacking
For just ONE thing, all of the GISS data (you remember them? Hansen et.al.? ) is publicly available and has been for years.
Don’t just read the stuff that supports your point of view. I don’t. I had a hard time deciding that Jones and Mann had to go. I don’t think they have to go because they are evil, or even bad scientists. They have to go because they chose a closed information model, and because there is no longer any public trust in the organizations they are running because of their presence.
Everything in context. None of that context is really contained in this dataset, which is probably a mercy because it would have been over half a Gig otherwise.
I’ll point it out again. You can get a correct explanation of just about anything in the dump by reading it on RealClimate.
BJ
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If only there was a political party which looked to the future rather than to short-term economic gains… oh, wait!
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From the RealClimate Comments…
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Ko te Pati Maori, te pati o te he, o te kupapa hoki.
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Ae tautokai, kei te pouri au ki a ratou.
He kaipoti koe ki taua pati?
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Congress May Probe Leaked Global Warming E-Mails
Of course Inhofe is behind this, so we know the results before the probe starts. They only go through the motions in an attempt to provide the wats of the world the thinnest veneer of respectability.
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mcol – that would be a good place to start. Have you access to a copy of the kaupapa of the Maori Party to see if that is in fact the case? That would be an interesting study.
Mind you, if Act can reverse theirs at the sniff of a perk, should we expect any more from Turia and co?
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greenfly – I do have access to the Maori party website, and the concept of kaitiakitanga, among other tikanga Maori values, is given much weight in the party’s constitution.
Personally speaking, I’ve always thought that the Maori party had more mana than the Act party, and so yes – I did expect more. Objectively speaking? It’s probably unfair to hold them to a higher standard, but I think both parties should at least strive to act consistently with the rules they set themselves.
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If there was a fraudulent science conspiracy it would have been uncovered by Echelon as it occured – all the information would be held by NSA back in the US. That George W Bush reluctantly came around to accepting global warming/climate change indicates there is/was no conspiracy known to the Americans.
All that was known would of course be leaked before a major global conference at which little would be achieved – to assist the denialists in gaining public acceptance of this outcome. And making the targeted scientists the guilty men of the time, rather than the governments allowing the inaction.
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mcol – can you leave them a message on their site?
I’ve some pithy phrases, should you need them.
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I have found a credible evidence of fraud among some scientists in the stories about the e-mails.
http://tinyurl.com/yfdj3zn
I suggest that it be read carefully… particularly by the denialists.
I still think Jones needs to resign… but… it might be best if he goes into this with a good “put up or shut up” offense in which he answers all the questions these e-mails raise. I know the answers for most of them… my problems with his staying have to do with the public perception of his office.
On reflection, he has to come out of the castle and defend it. I’m not sure he is temperamentally equipped for this, but it seems to me that it is the only way to spike the more publicly damaging portions of the controversy.
respectfully
BJ
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Kore greenfly. He mema au o te Roopu Kakariki. Kaore au i pai ki te Pati Maori me o ratou Mema o Paremata
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