Comments on: General debate, November 23, 2009

By: StephenR

StephenR — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:12:13 +0000

Ah but have you experimented with morning and afternoon posts – people tend to be less grumpy after lunch.

Like or Dislike: 0 0 (0)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:56:01 +0000

You’ve got fans Blue!

The kind of fans that are used to expel bad air.
(It’s a joke, don’t feel bad).

Like or Dislike: 0 2 (-2)

By: BluePeter

BluePeter — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:27:48 +0000

Doing some calibration.

Looks like whatever I post, I will be guaranteed -4 votes, based solely on the fact I’m making a post of any sort.

So the -4 becomes 0 once the “free speech hypocrite” vote is removed.

Like or Dislike: 2 7 (-5)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:26:30 +0000

kiwiblog? kiwiblog? The bite of the white-tailed spider can be nasty and fester badly, causing great discomfort and fear of daylight – kiwiblog.

Like or Dislike: 2 2 (0)

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:07:03 +0000

Well I have Terriers with a simlar tude. There it Is Mark – kill it! Kill the Beast!!!
(ref;lord of th Flies)

No Dogs, all life is sacred
so don’t fuck up
Anyone call you Vital yet?
Naw we got em sleepy again chief
for the best eh?
Sapient!!!!
Did you suscribe to eric francis?
Cos the late news is fascinatin…..
ah well another day, another
you know – i can semd you one more
but only in return for verbal paintings
take your time

Like or Dislike: 0 1 (-1)

By: phil u

phil u — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:48:02 +0000

“..One wonders if some on the left care not about the message, only about the person saying it..”

have you ever been to kiwiblog..?

bluepeter..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

Like or Dislike: 0 2 (-2)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:05:39 +0000

Shunda – as promised, I followed up on your lead and found … a pretender to my throne, but not a bad bloke, by the sounds of it. I’m in discussion presently. By pure chance, I had visitors from the very hamlet the GP promoter is domiciled (way north of you and I)and filled in some other pieces of the puzzle. Hold your subscription for now (don’t fritter it away on the pokies Shunda!) and I’ll keep you in the loop as more details come through.

Like or Dislike: 0 1 (-1)

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:23:22 +0000

Jh Christ you promote war amonst classes – 17th century fool – scurvy to the notion…
What shall we use among our fellows – brutality
Or identification – jh has made his choice!!
Poo to a Goose

Like or Dislike: 1 2 (-1)

By: Shunda barunda

Shunda barunda — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:21:24 +0000

Greenfly have you established who the rightful and true users of “the garden party” are yet?
Can’t join if its not the real deal!

Like or Dislike: 0 0 (0)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:14:17 +0000

Negotiation is safer than batons, fists, tazers and guns.
My, not surprising conclusion.

Like or Dislike: 1 3 (-2)

By: jh

jh — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:01:03 +0000

Tasers safer than batons and fists
Using a Taser to subdue a violent suspect is safer than police batons and fists. That is the surprising conclusion of a study of incidents in which US police used force to tackle a person who was resisting arrest.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18168-tasers-safer-than-batons-a nd-fists.html?DCMP=NLC-nletter&nsref=dn18168

Like or Dislike: 2 1 (+1)

By: BluePeter

BluePeter — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:30:40 +0000

Two down votes for:

“Sent. Thanks Owen.”

Man! Tough crowd!

One wonders if some on the left care not about the message, only about the person saying it.

Like or Dislike: 4 7 (-3)

By: BluePeter

BluePeter — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:31:38 +0000

Sent. Thanks Owen.

Like or Dislike: 4 6 (-2)

By: Owen McShane

Owen McShane — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:02:17 +0000

Blue Peter
I am putting all three up on my web page today.
But I am sending out a Digest with them all in a few minutes.
If you send me your email address I can include you in the list.

Like or Dislike: 1 2 (-1)

By: BluePeter

BluePeter — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:37:37 +0000

I think your essay on tribes was well ahead of its time, and rings true in my experience. Seth Godin wrote a book called “Tribes” recently, touching on many of the points you made.

Are your other articles on the web somewhere?

Like or Dislike: 1 5 (-4)

By: Owen McShane

Owen McShane — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 01:32:07 +0000

BLue Peter.
Re marketing:
I wrote my essays in 1994 and presented them in 1995. Phil U seems to presume the oil companies paid me to write about Tribal Marketing because he assumes the only reason I have ideas is that the oil companies pay me to have them.
I find these essays prescient but I did not foresee the blog tribes etc. Those were such early times. But you can blame me for the ubiquity of “passion”. They all seemed to pick up on it.

Thanks for directing me to Seth Godin.
When I read the heading of his essay “BRand management is so 1999″ why does Whale Rider come to mind?

He seems to have generally regurgitated all my stuff and I find no attributions – at least on the web.

Maybe they are in the books.

Like or Dislike: 0 3 (-3)

By: Owen McShane

Owen McShane — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:33:54 +0000

This is better. I shall let you know when the 1995 papers are up on my website.

During his last years, the late Aaron Wildavsky, then Dean of the School of Public Policy at UC Berkeley, became more and more interested in the role of group ‘culture’ in shaping social behaviour. One of his observations was that the more the individual is incorporated into bonded unit, the more individual choice is subject to group determination.

Aaron was generally regarded as ‘the father of Public Policy’ and in this group of books and papers he was challenging the ‘rational man’ model of decision-making. He was not denying the importance of reason and scientific method, but was emphasising that human behaviour is also modified by strongly held beliefs and traditions, and in particular, by group loyalties.

I suspect if Aaron was still alive he would be setting a bunch of his graduate students onto this episode of the leaked Climate Research Unit emails as a textbook example of how a ‘culture of group belief’ can impact on the behaviour of the supposedly rational and impartial people who are presumed to occupy the scientific community.

These emails may be an early demonstration of one of the downsides of the internet, and of email in particular.

The rapid and prolific communication enabled by email certainly promotes the free and widespread sharing of information and knowhow.

But the same ease of communication may well promote the development of an inward-looking and intolerant tribal culture which can seriously undermine the established disciplines and traditions of the scientific method.

Scientists have always been passionate about their theories. Dawkins, Teller, Feynman, Pinker, Gould and Gliek are hardly famous for their lack of commitment to their beleifs.

But prior to the internet such scientists have tended to be passionate individuals working at their desks within their own studies, and sharing their ideas with suitably sceptical colleagues and graduate students.

Fifteen years ago I presented a paper to the Quest organisation’s 1995 AGM in Florida, on how the internet would promote Tribal Marketing.

The release of the CRU emails suggests suggest that sadly the internet has promoted the development of Tribal Science.

Certainly the key players, as revealed in this collection of leaked emails, have been behaving like members of a fervent and passionate tribe – defending their territory, shaping evidence to support their beliefs and waging war on outsiders.

Wildavsky would be the first to point out that there is no need to call on conspiracy theory, or financial incentives, to explain this tribal behaviour; just the power of the culture of the group.

The CRU team and their internet colleagues had taken on the intolerant behaviour and inemperate language of the fervent tribes that build up around extremist blogs on the Internet.

Like or Dislike: 0 2 (-2)

By: toad

toad — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:22:22 +0000

@phil u 10:44 AM

Many Maori Party supporters are threatening to leave the party

Haere mai koutou ki te Pati Kakariki.

Like or Dislike: 2 1 (+1)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:15:59 +0000

“The question needs to be asked, do we want to be remembered as a party that gave future generations a horrendous debt, or do we want to be known as a party that took a principled stand against a terrible scheme?” the party source said.

Like or Dislike: 3 1 (+2)

By: BluePeter

BluePeter — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:14:17 +0000

It would be great, but I doubt they’ll pull their votes.

The entire ETS is a sham, based on science that now needs to be reinvestigated.

Like or Dislike: 2 7 (-5)