by frog
Green MP Kevin Hague stole the show at yesterday’s launch of the first Cycleway project…simply by turning up on a bicycle: TV3, TV1
The Greens have been working alongside National on developing a nationwide network of cycle trails—a network that will one day stretch the length of the country.
The Cycle Trail project has a highly successful precedent overseas. The UK National Cycle Network (SUSTRANS) was started with seed funding of £43 million in 1995. The Network now consists of over 10,000 miles of signed cycle routes carrying 386 million journeys in 2008. That usage realised £270 million in health savings and offered potential carbon emissions savings of 493,000 tonnes. For every £1 spent on the UK’s cycle network, they’re now realising up to £18-£40 in benefits, particularly where the cycleway runs through urban areas.
While onlookers marvelled at the branding, Kevin was promoting BikeNZ’s 1.5 Campaign. Have you signed the petition yet? In Kevin’s own words, “If visiting overseas cyclists feel unsafe riding on our roads, their enthusiasm for our cycle trails back home will be muted, at best. The Government’s investment in the cycleway will be lost.”
The Green Party plans to introduce a Member’s Bill to the House which will make it mandatory for a motorist to give a cyclist 1.5 meters of space when passing. It’s one of a suite of measures we’d like to introduce to make cycling safer.
Published in Environment & Resource Management by frog on Wed, November 11th, 2009
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
“If visiting overseas cyclists feel unsafe riding on our roads, their enthusiasm for our cycle trails back home will be muted, at best. The Government’s investment in the cycleway will be lost.”
So this cycleway project is all about encouraging tourists to burn umpteen kilos of fossil fuels flying to New Zealand in order to check out our nice “clean and green” cycle ways?
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But there’s nothing wrong with having tourists wanting to use it too. While it is unlikely to be the deciding factor for many who travel here, it would at least be a low-carbon segment of their trip that might otherwise be spent in another way.
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Sam – looking at it through Key’s opiated eyes, yes.
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Thanks to National Ltd® wages have dropped, food prices are through the roof, water is being privatised, ACC is being asset stripped, overseas banks are ripping us off, unemployment is at a quarter of a million and the Greens are giggling because they received some reflected glory from Mogadon John’s cycle way folly – being constructed at over $73,000 per kilometre.
I suppose there is some sort of social justice in that, at least tourists are being made to feel safe. Shame about the rest of us.
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So, while National Ltd® takes cash from the pension fund to subsidise polluters with one hand, you’re “comfortable” with assisting in the greenwash on the other? That’s like saying you’re happy to hide the bank robber from the police but not drive the get away car.
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Not a matter of where it came from, Valis, the cycleway just doesn’t seem a particularly green project – it mostly seems aimed at tourists. By all means support cycleways for commuters and for recreational cyclists near major population centres (where it isn’t a matter of flying across the world, or loading the bikes on to your SUV and driving to the track, for a ‘wilderness experience’.
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“..I understand some parties will attack even that which they support if it comes from the other side, but we just don’t operate that way..”
valis..easy on the strawman-arguments..eh..?
nobody is advocating attacking the cycleway..
it is just that just that being the reason for the greens not engaging as a true opposition party..
seems a price too high..or low..
(depending on your perspective..)
you just don’t seem to ‘get it’..
or are engaging in a dishonest manner..
(ie..parroting party-line fr whatever reason..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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John Key is a total let down for every wage worker in New Zealand.
So many people losing jobs, Merry Christmas said John Boy on Broke Mountain.
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Only if they were silly enough to have expectations.
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Sam, segments of the Cycleway are meant to cater for domestic tourists and commuters too. Have a read of Kevin’s other blogs.
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I understand the concern about the enviornmental impact of overseas tourism. It’s true that tourism benefits are the main driver for the Government on this project, and the money is all tourism dollars. My sense is that the project is most likely to keep more New Zealanders at home for their holidays, rather than heading overseas (net benefit), and the second largest tourism effect will be for overseas tourists coming to New Zealand to spend more of their time here cycling and walking (net benefit). I would be surprised if there were many additional long haul overseas tourists coming here just because of Nga Haerenga.
And Government is starting to show some understanding that the best returns on investment in the cycling network will come from those sections that work for commuters and local recreational riders as well as tourists – benefits of up to 40:1 on some parts of the British National Cycle Network.
And of course I understand that there are people who feel we should oppose everything the Government does on principle, but my view is that approach would be inconsistent with the core philosophy of the Green Party in relation to how we interact with other people.
By the way, the event yesterday was great to be part of. It was fantastic to see the enormous community, Council and Iwi enthusiasm for the Waikato River Trail and the huge pride taken by the young people who had been working to build the track. I was particularly struck by the large number of people who made a point of telling me that they were personally going to take up cycling, or had already started, as a result of the project. And I had a great ride – especially returning to Cambridge via the Mangatautari road (longer and hillier, but much quieter, safer and more scenic.
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“Why give credibility to this shonkey government”
greenfly there are not really that many people that care what the greens think any way, it could quite possibly give the Greens more credibility with voters if you guys actually hang in there.
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Crikey! Credibility at last! Thank you John Key (may I kiss the hem of your garment Your Majesty?)
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How does assisting National Ltd® to mitigate the opprobrium due for its subsidising of polluters advance Green Party policy? By slopping a great coat of greenwash all over Mogadon John’s pet project you’re doing your own, primary policy significant harm by assisting in creating the perception that this government has even the slightest concern for the environment. Stick to your support of the home insulation programme – that, at least, brings some sort of comfort to New Zealanders.
I note also that while Hague brought his bike to the photo-op, he’s also the Green Party MP with the highest cost of air travel for the three months ended 30 September. How much did he tick up for the jaunt over to the Waikato to snuggle his new mate, The Goober?
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“And Government is starting to show some understanding that the best returns on investment in the cycling network will come from those sections that work for commuters and local recreational riders as well as tourists – benefits of up to 40:1 on some parts of the British National Cycle Network.”
I agree Kevin and while I am not a cyclist at the moment if the planned coastal pathway goes ahead in our area I would say me and the kids will be regular recreational users.
Would be keen to be involved in this project Kevin, if you know any contacts let me know.
ps : while I have been critical of the attitudes of some cyclists on other threads I am not against cycling, I just think that with the driving habits of certain kiwi motorists it is foolish to make a moral protest on a 100kmhr highway.
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kevin..once again..a strawman argument..
i haven’t seen anyone advocating opposing just for the sake of opposing..
i am advocating the greens become a fully-functioning opposition party/advocate for the environment/green concerns..
there is a difference..
and once again..
is a cycleway..known/remembered as keys’-project..
that ..like the insulation program..will go ahead anyway..
..is that ‘our’ concern..?
and more importantly..
enough reason fnot to have a full divorce..
and then treating govt. proposals on a case by case basis..
supporting any we like..
and going hell for leather on the all the other/urgent ’stuff’..
eh..?
this cycleway is not reason enough not to be that opposition party..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“Crikey! Credibility at last! Thank you John Key (may I kiss the hem of your garment Your Majesty?)”
So what, you want to be the sulky kid in the corner that didn’t get his way?.
Greenie pleeeeeze!
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We might then even be able to persuade the cycle dealers to import proper urban commuter cycles instead of inadequate MTBs; for instance large Dutch loop frames with internal gears, mud and skirt guards, and big baskets.
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mining the conservation estate..?..anyone..?
that one was obviously part of the secret agenda of the hollow-men national party election campaign..
a cynical/manipulative campaign of lies..
the greens would do best to just ‘head for the hills’..
rather than share their upcoming approbrium .. for their inaction..
where action is needed..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I’m generally pretty moderate about stuff, but given the ETS results to date, the Emissions joke and the efficiency blow-off I am not willing to give them mindshare.
If they’d been halfway responsive on the ETS or the emissions I’d be more inclined to cut them slack but they aren’t and I’m not. Those are bottom-line issues. Not like the cycleway. Not like ACC. Those are dig in and fight to the death issues and I am not happy and I doubt that any folks with dark green attitudes would be.
On current form they’ll get my “cooperation” when hell is a hockey rink. I reckon that the Greens might do well to tell them that they’re way over the line and if we don’t see some movement in the right direction that’s it. We simply go into full court press on their inadequacies and their arrogance.
This is a “we don’t care because we don’t have to” government. That attitude needs to be spotlighted for every New Zealander to see. It is their principle weakness.
(I gotta find a short and pithy way to say say that about them).
BJ
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BJ
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Have I been missing something? I know big Jerry has me quite concerned but is it all really this bad? Please guys, help me understand why you are all so wound up and despairing.
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does that fit with the mayan 2012 predictions..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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yes..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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(Aside from the bj/phil/greenfly alignment)
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Phil – Yes
BJ
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So BJ what are your main concerns with the govt, do you think they are worse than a Labour govt would have been? educate me, I really am listening.
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Hi Michaela,
You’re absolutely right about NZ cycle importers – in the vast majority of bike shops you’ll see nothing but mountain bikes or road racing bikes catering to the lycra clad ’sports’ riders and largely useless as day to day transport. The wife and I had to custom build bikes with full fenders, racks, pannier bags, baskets, etc.
Good news though – it’s starting to change!!
Velorbis bicycles are available here and selling well, check out:
http://www.urbanbicycle.co.nz/
Cycle Supplies in Christchurch have started importing Pashley bicycles from the UK – look at these beauties:
http://www.pashley.co.uk/lists/classic-bicycles.html
And AvantiPlus in Waitakere are doing all they can to stock commuter bikes from Avanti and Specialized, including some models that come standard with geared hubs, fenders, racks and bags, and are selling 10 commuters for every mountain bike sold.
There’s a shiny new cycleway on Te Atatu Peninsula and the Northwestern cycleway is getting a gap filled near the town end. Every week we see more commuter bicycles.
There’s hope that soon more New Zealanders will stop going places to ride their bicycles and start riding their bicycles to go places!
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(Sleeping with one eye open tonight !)
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The party has historically always supported measures which are an improvement, even if they are only a small one, and opposed measures that make things worse. The cycleway is clearly an improvement.
Obviously, taken as a whole, the activities of the National government have made the country much worse. However, that doesn’t mean that the Green Party shouldn’t support the very few things National does get right, however minor.
Supporting these measures keeps the profile of the Greens up; especially in cases like this where the Greens are the only ones to actually turn up on a bike!
National gets most of the media attention as it is; if the Greens were to abstain or criticise the cycleway, it would harm the party, and possibly even get the old grey parties more votes from people who would otherwise see the party as principled.
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Have I been missing something? BJ what are your main concerns with the govt, do you think they are worse than a Labour govt would have been?
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…and ‘goat track to Mordor’ is pretty funny!
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To understand you’d have to understand that my first priority is the preservation of the planet, and that the emissions targets, working ETS and efficiency goals are bottom line issues.
If it were a choice between going on to the catastrophe without doing what we as a planet can do or putting a Josef Stalin in charge of the planet, I’d take the tyrant. Tyrants are mortal… and temporary in any civilizations history.
Extinction is forever, and it is distinctly possible if we’re unlucky as well as foolish.
However, National went one better on us. Their version of the ETS doesn’t even do nothing… it actively encoudages our industries and businesses to do worse. Which is why I am so violently angry with these traitors to the species.
The other side of this is to consider what a 4th Labour government would have to look like, given that Winston so ably removed himself and his party from any position of power. It would have been us and Maori and Labour. We would have had FAR more power to change things. Assume Labour still screwing us with its support of the property sector. As angry as I am over that I can resign myself to digging out the vaseline… provided we participate honestly try to bring the greenhouse under control. That’s sort of how it works.
No mistake Shunda, I pay heavily under the current system and I am personally less heavily taxed under National than I was under Labour ( though I still can’t buy a decent house ) and I am still p!ssed off with both parties.
However, only one of them betrays my children at such a fundamental level.
The other betrayals are mere annoyances. Sentencing my children to a loss of human civilization, in order to satisfy some banker or businessman’s desire for better quarterly results and a BMW in the driveway… that’s worse than merely criminal.
That’s how I think it is worse.
respectfully
BJ
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A1kmm
You are correct. We must not cut off our nose to spite our face. We can and should still support National’s few positive steps (including the cycleway).
I am not sure however, that a MOU is necessary to do that. That is rather more Kevin’s to answer as I am not sure how important the advantages in consultation that the MOU provides (when National’s representative is actually honest about what his plans are), compared to the advantages of publicly shredding the MOU and telling National “Get stuffed. We’ll support you if you do it right but we’ll not TRUST you again”.
That’s basically where I am going with this.
respectfully
BJ
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Was that because of the ethical manner in which the conducted them selves pre-election? The fair and transparent way in which they have operated in the House? The qualities of fairness they have exhibited toward the less able members of our society? The warm and honest personalities of the main players; Brownlee, Smith, English, Power, Collins, Tolley.. (I can’t go on) in their party, their obvious, deep understanding of the issues that concern the Greens the most – oceans, forests, rivers, wetlands… is this why we TRUSTED them in the first place?
I’m puzzled by that.
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That is something an HONEST businessman understands… and it is now quite clear that some of them regard their obligations to ethical behavior where we are concerned, as an unnecessary burden.
They abrogated their own written commitment, unilaterally.
They are exposed as dishonest businessmen. It pales besides all their other calumny and fraud but it was a minimum standard, the ability to keep to a signed contract with no great obligations attached. They failed even this.
BJ
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. . . allow me: Calamity Kate Wilkinson, Basher Bennett, We’llmissya Lee, David “the farmers’ best friend” Carter, Jonathan “Cigar” Coleman, PPP Heatley, Hollow Don Brash . . . and so on. These are the people the Green Party now, apparently, trusts.
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Thank you BliP – I’d lost heart as the list grew.
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Slight problem – they are tory politicians, not businessmen.
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Damn… I KNEW I was missing something
BJ
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Mogadon John? What have I missed???
You mean the PM’s a Junkie?
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When hell is a hockey rink.
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Its a nickname I purloined from a greater wit than I. It relates to the fact that if The Goober was any more “comfortable” and “relaxed” he’d be dead.
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‘Mogadon John’ is good. I coined ‘Papa Somniferum’ in reference to the opiate of the people but no one took it up.
I was a little dissapointed, but you can’t win ‘em all
(Perhaps people aren’t as familiar with the poppy as I am)
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If labour had won the country would be stuffed about now, I don’t see how you guys can be so anti National when Labour are at least as bad.
I get the left hate right thing, and I get the concern over the environment but I think saying they are the worst govt in 10 years is ridiculous.
At the end of the day it was the left wing making a mockery of legitimate welfare, overly interfering in the lives of citizens and a general smug “we know best” attitude that lead to the situation now.
Perhaps a bit of a stock take of what went wrong is in order instead of bitching and grizzling about the blo@dy torries.
With a bit of humble reflection you might understand why NZers voted the left out and why they are so lagging in the polls.
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Not saying labour was good, though I am at a bit of a loss as to how much difference National has actually made. Aside from gutting the environmental accomplishments what have they really done. Cut out some of the actual civil servants? Created the Auckland Supercity? Good moves but what might labour have done instead? A CGT on housing? LAQC ringfencing?
When I consider the choices, of paying extra in tax and having to put up with idiots interfering in my life, or consigning my kids and their kids to live in a climate change hell, I’ll live with the bureaucrats and do what I can to change them over time, but I won’t toss the baby out with the bathwater.
You understand… I would take my chances with Josef Stalin running the planet if it meant that we’d get action on population control and banksters and fractional-reserve currency and AGW. Not sure I’d agree with his methods of population control but the bottom line is that a tyranny is always eventually overthrown or changed from within, and the knowledge that gives us civilization would remain and we as a species would have a good chance to prosper in time.
Destroy the civilization that gives us books and electricity and understanding of nature, and we’re on a path to extinction. No such thing as maintaining 6 billion Hunter-Gatherer’s on this planet. The odds of humans surviving as a species are definitely diminished in that scenario, and the odds of us remembering a hundredth of what we’ve gained in the past 5 thousand years are slender indeed.
The price of allowing the nanny state to muck about with my choice of child-rearing style is pretty negligible in comparison.
Wouldn’t you agree?
I accept that most New Zealanders did not. They don’t see it from my perspective in general. However, you were asking why I think what I think about this… which is a fair question. I’ve tried to give a full answer.
respectfully
BJ
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Incidentally, the stock-take on what went wrong has been going on and some of my conclusions have been posted elsewhere. Most of these have been addressed in some measure where they concerned Greens. Labour has its own set of troubles… and it would be wrong to simply broad-brush the total set of problems by simply discussing “the left” in this way.
respectfully
BJ
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Shunda – your ‘please help me to understand why National are bad’ doesn’t mesh at all with your statements to date and your reaction to bj’s explanation. You’re vehemently anti-Labour and won’t be dislodged. I reckon. This will stop you from understanding the Green’s views, no matter how much you like kokopu.
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“You’re vehemently anti-Labour and won’t be dislodged. I reckon.”
Greenfly I am not anti the labour movement though, I am a strong supporter of giving the working class man (and woman) and his family a better deal. But this is not what labour are about any more is it.
I was talking to an older gentleman the other day who described himself as a bit of a socialist at heart, as he was talking I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything he said. He then told me he voted National as he thought labour had lost touch with its roots and thought M Cullen was a smug pr!ck. It turns out a large portion of society agree.
Maybe I don’t have the experience of previous national govts to look back on, but I refuse to accept that Josef Stalin would be a better prospect than John Key, hell, John key would probably be a democrat if he was in the US.
BJ,The interfering in the families that was(is) going on in my opinion is a big deal, in 10 years under Labour we saw a rapid decline in all the areas, that on paper, labour should have improved. The problem is blind adherence to ideology and a stubborn refusal to look at the damage it was actually doing, a correction then becomes inevitable.
The difference between my thinking and many of you guys seems to be that I see it as necessary for a left and a right wing and the need to try and balance the two.
We are currently moving away from the left because we had to, balance became the priority. Now the priority is to avoid over correction, which is where the Greens come in, throwing your toys out of the cot due to NZ’s minuscule contribution to global warming is not acceptable, there is work to be done to stop the destruction of our environment here now. We have entered an “act locally” phase in protecting the environment. You need to accept it because national will probably be in Govt for at least another term.
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“BJ sees AGW as a survival issue, while Shunda sees it as a UN conspiracy.”
Not true, I see it as too easily infected with political agendas, and a growing number of environmentalists agree.
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Shunda barunda wrote:
“Maybe I don’t have the experience of previous national govts to look back on, but I refuse to accept that Josef Stalin would be a better prospect than John Key”
Of course he wouldn’t be. But Josef Stalin has nothing to do with the modern Labour Party.
“hell, John key would probably be a democrat if he was in the US.”
true. And Michael Cullen would be a right-winger if he were in France.
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Then you recommend that we take a little ‘humble reflection’.
Oh Shunda.
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LOL! Sorry, but NO ONE here would disagree with that statement, so it can’t possibly be an accurate description of your position unless you capitulated recently when no one was looking. We’ve debated this long and hard with you for months, debates that would never have occurred if the above were true.
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No greenfly, I am putting recent political developments in NZ into perspective.
I want to know if the National party really is as evil as you guys say but frankly it seems like they are bad cause well they just are!!
Perhaps a “top 10 reasons why you can’t work with national” would help me understand why.
I think you are just trying to avoid really dealing with the points I made in my previous post to be really honest.
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Shunda said :
I see it (Anthropogenic Global Warming) as too easily infected with political agendas
Does this mean, Shunda, that you believe that AGM is real?
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Replacing Key with such a person isn’t worth it because the policies would only apply to NZ.
Not that it is possible… I was using it to make a point about the survival issue involved.
Which you still seem to mistake for a politicized propaganda ploy from the left.
Neglecting the proven politicized propaganda promotion by the folks who actually profit from the status-quo, banksters and businesses on the right.
The conspiracy exists Shunda, but it isn’t sourced in the UN or “one world government” people on the left. It is sourced in the EXISTING world government power center, the Bank for International Settlement in Switzerland, and the offices of Goldman-Sachs and EXxon-Mobil. The powers that be have no interest in sharing with anyone, even at the price of their children’s survival. They reckon that they have enough money to protect themselves.
I doubt it.
There will be a day when that wealth becomes an indictment.
People are still fools, easily led and distractable. When the excrement hits the ventilation impeller that will end… badly, but it will end.
BJ
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So what you are saying Valis, is that I am actually a more reasonable person than you gave me credit for?. You keep calling me the conspiracy theorist, I was only repeating what the UN actually said.
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You have to remember what the UN is working against. Not I think, that most of them understand it themselves.
BJ
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Land sakes, Shunda! Surely you jest!
Top 10 reasons – have you not been reading Frogblog lately? You can’t tell me you have no idea of what the issues/instances are that posters here find appalling about the National Government!!
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“Does this mean, Shunda, that you believe that AGM is real? ”
My position is that the science is not settled on the issue.
I also believe that to date AGW activism has had a serious negative effect on the environment, the recent deforestation in my region certainly testifies to that.
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So that’s a ‘No’ to AGW for you.
I want to know if the National party really is as evil as you guys say
I don’t think you do.
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“We have entered an “act locally” phase in protecting the environment. You need to accept it because national will probably be in Govt for at least another term.”
Are you saying we need to act locally because National will be in for another term and the local environment desperately needs protecting from them?
Isn’t that why the Greens shouldn’t be working with National?
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are you just about to call ‘time’ on that time-waster..?..fly..?
it’s about bloody time..!
eh..?
tell the black-hole to f*ck off..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“I don’t think you do.”
greenfly I have a concern for the impact that the govt may have on our environment, I have said I will not vote for them again if they start wrecking the place and mean it. I don’t share the Greens concerns over most of the left vs right ideals and social policy, but that stuff always swings round about after a change in govt.
What is the no 1 issue for the greens with national? Is it the ETS as BJ has said or is it just because they are a centre right govt?
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Just thought I would remind you that the greatest deforestation our country has seen since colonial times happened under the last left wing “environmentally friendly” govt.
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oh look..!
shunda ‘playing reasonable’..
(anyone else got a strong sense of deja vu/groundhog day here..?..)
anyone not getting the realisation this troll has been ‘playing you’..?
(motive..?..unknown..who cares..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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“Are you saying we need to act locally because National will be in for another term and the local environment desperately needs protecting from them?”
Yes my concern is that may turn out to be true.
“Isn’t that why the Greens shouldn’t be working with National?”
It may be, but I don’t think that time is now, it is still unclear whether they will continue labours mis management of the environmet or not.
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So what you are saying Valis, is that I am actually a more reasonable person than you gave me credit for?.
No, I don’t think your position on climate change is reasonable.
Just thought I would remind you that the greatest deforestation our country has seen since colonial times happened under the last left wing “environmentally friendly” govt.
Can’t imagine who you belive thought they were environmentally friendly. Its only the Nats that will make them look that way in retrospect.
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For some people the science will be settled when you can only visit Te Papa in a Waka
?
BJ
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Shunda,
I’m not exactly sure what your position is but the position that we should do nothing unless the climate science is absolutely settled is not a reasonable one for a number of reasons.
Given the science at present we can make a reasonable guess as to the probability of it happening and the probability of it being detrimental. Even assuming it was much smaller than it was, it would still be worth making the change. Even were the chances small, the ‘prize’ is massive, even the runners up are pretty nasty.
Ignoring the climate effect, and thus that which is debatable, to not enforce carbon trading is to steal profits from owners of forests to subsidize the burners of fossil fuels. That is a good that the owners are supplying to the commons and not being paid for and a good removed from the commons by the factories which then don’t pay for that good. Theft.
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They’ve been in power a while now – have any of Labour’s anti-environment policies been reversed? Is conservation better funded? How about environmental education? Does the ’stocktake’ of the conservation estate look like a move in the right direction? Or the road-building programme? Or anything?
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Shunda – you’re willfully ignoring the obvious. I’m surprised people here are willing to go over it all for your benefit. If you read what bj and sapient said, regarding AGW, regardless of your view as to its veracity, you’d understand that the position you’ve taken is wrong.
Wrong old chappie.
You are a straw-clutcher Shunda, dodging and weaving, pulling ‘but ifs’ and ‘what abouts’ out of the air to avoid facing reality (but the beech forests, the smacking, Michael Cullen!! You can’t expect me to take climate change seriously while those outrages are on my mind!!!)
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Here ya go Shunda – have a wee read of this (for example)
http://www.thestandard.org.nz/stupid-stupid-stupid/
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I’m surprised people here are willing to go over it all for your benefit.
You mean willing to go over it all AGAIN. How many times has it been now? Some of you guys are saintly in your patience, I have to say.
Anyway, frog must have been listening, so this thread should now transfer here:
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/11/12/how-the-ipcc-works/
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Perhaps this will appeal to the more visceral side?
http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/10/cameron-russell-supermodels-take -it-off-for-climate-change/
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Visceral? Carnal.
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Naaa…. they don’t actually do anything naughty
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I got to use the UK cycle network about six years ago and I was amazed at how awesome it was. It wasn’t just a tourist and leisure amenity but a real transport network, especially when combined with bike lockers on the trains. One time especially I went to visit friends in a small village 97 miles from London so I took the train and biked from the local station; it took a little bit longer than by car but was still an easy day trip.
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“You mean willing to go over it all AGAIN. How many times has it been now? Some of you guys are saintly in your patience, I have to say.”
Guys this is a blog for crying out loud, its not like I am wasting valuable company time.
And in my defence you guys should be willing to “educate” some one that you clearly think is deluded but is still engaging in conversation none the less.
I am not trolling and I think it is fair to say I have slowly become a lot more civil in my “blogside manner” of recent months. May be I am just an oddity in political no man’s land or just odd, but I certainly don’t have sinister motives for being here as Phil repeatedly suggests.
I will now read all your links out of respect for all the “saintly patience” you have all shown.
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No. You’re just odd fullstop.
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“No. You’re just odd fullstop.”
I’m happy with my oddness BLiP, rather be odd than nasty.
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Thanks Tobias. The British National Cycle Network is the template we have been steering Nga Haerenga (the name of the NZ Cycle Trail)towards -a network of cycling/walking routes, paths and tracks that can be used for tourists, but also work for people commuting to work or school, or just having a good time at the weekend. Without our involvement it seems unlikely to me that it would be moving in this direction.
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i concur with the ‘odd fullstop’..
and would add..’eyewateringly boring’
(‘no disrespect..!..you understand..!..
..this is just how it is..!’..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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shunda: you said “I also believe that to date AGW activism has had a serious negative effect on the environment, the recent deforestation in my region certainly testifies to that.”
New Zealand signed the Kyoto protocol ages ago, as the result of AGW activism. The recent deforestation can’t really be blamed on the fact that we signed the protocol. Instead, the blame should lie with those who mismanaged (or more accurately failed to manage) the transition to a regime which incorporated the Kyoto protocol. When rules were announced, it was only natural for groups such as farmers to “game the system” to maximise their profits or minimise their losses – entirely predictable and a direct consequence of the way those rules were introduce. Had Labour and National acted sooner and with more care, this would not be happening.
Trevor.
PS: Which part of the science of AGW do you not believe is settled?
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Trevor, the more reading I do on the subject to more I realise there are a range of ways to interpret what is going on with the climate.
It is such a broad area of research and includes so much reliance on poorly understood interactions that I think you can pretty much make the “science” say what ever you want it to.
Do we need to prepare? yes I think we do, but we need to do the harder work of promoting a sustainable lifestyle, not hand the bl@ody wolves another market.
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Have to agree with you there. The Green Party favoured a carbon tax rather than an emissions market, but didn’t get support.
The stupid thing about the approach of the NatLabs is that a sustainable lifestyle will probably work out cheaper in the long run anyway, more so with carbon pricing and inevitably when peak oil/gas/coal/uranium strike.
Trevor.
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If New Zealand had actually started introducing measures to limit and then reduce our CO2e emissions when we signed the Kyoto protocol, we would probably stand to make quite a bit of overseas income from it. Successive governments didn’t so now we all pay the price.
Trevor.
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just when to do all of our governments take CO2 emissions seriously and do something about it??? and surely the largest nations which are most guilty of it need to act – look at all the gas gussling cars the US drive yet they keep fuel costs low enough to allow them to drive them .. lets do something for our children and their children before its toooo late
anyway have some fun and play cafe world for a while – at Cafe World Domination
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