Comments on: Mokihinui – Brownlee’s burp

By: Landa

Landa — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:42:08 +0000

Nobody should accuse southern (low-average-income) writers and artists of being wealthy. But I wonder if anyone told the Judge that some of their best art feeds on images of bare hills and powerlines?

“Tickling the soul” is a pleasant phrase.
And, also from Greenfly:
“I know you haiku.
Not so much manipulate,
but strip away”.
Quite a nice little haiku in itself.

But.

This is an environment discussion, about fresh-water ecology, hills and a need to provide energy.

Please recall the clever and rich people who wish to sell us nuclear power stations. They are cleverer than Greens, and richer than Greens. And they have been practising their arts for decades. And they have super-clever communication armies working for them (for communication, read manipulation – of people involved in the decision). These people are serious, and they don’t muck about. They have been known to resort to murder (usually whistleblowers and people iwho didn’t shut up when sternly instructed to).

Coal is dirty, yes. Wind and waves are expensive, yes (you have to be fussy and selfish to object to them on noise or aesthetics – go visit some Greek islands, where they are part of the charm). Hydro drowns land, yes (this will seem a quaint old geezer argument in a few years, when our coastlines are part-drowned). But anti-nuclear has to be the bottom line.

There are adverse consequences of a failure of installed nuclear technology. Very, very adverse. Such failure may not be mechanical. This means even the cleverest engineers cannot guard against it. And we still need to figure out how to dispose of the waste.

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: frog

frog — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:30:24 +0000

@BJ:

The structure could produce power for centuries… the time limit is entirely up to the maintenance crews. Don’t mis-state or exaggerate… such errors almost always come back to bite.

Fair criticism BJ. I did a check and apparently the proposed Mokihinui dam is rated for 200-400 years, although an earthquake like those experienced last century would rapidly increase the siltation. Lake Perrine is an example of a naturally formed blockage silting up at the head of the Mokihinui gorge – here’s a photo.

Like or Dislike: 0 0 (0)

By: Shunda barunda

Shunda barunda — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:23:21 +0000

“The human eye is relaxed by constant movement, as of trees in the wind, or waves on the ocean”

My favourite is NZ tussock in the wind, nothing quite like Chionochloa rubra blowing in the breeze.
Oh and artists are psychos sapient, but instead of killing people they channel some of that energy into artistic expression and merely treat everybody like crap instead.

Like or Dislike: 3 0 (+3)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:52:25 +0000

Agreed BJ, though there may be more to it than the leverage of a company of wealthy artists. Just as a farmer fights to retain the de-natured farm he spent his life on, so the landscape artist battles to protect the landscape he painstakingly paints. I guess.

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: bjchip

bjchip — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:43:32 +0000

A bunch of artists don’t like the fact that the dynamic grace of the big blades rotating ceaselessly on the horizon would be a visual delight that would make their own efforts pale in comparison? The fact is, these people may be “artistic” but they have no soul. The human eye is relaxed by constant movement, as of trees in the wind, or waves on the ocean, and the ceaseless and rhythmic movement of the blades would add rather than detract from both the landscape and our civilization.

They are NOT qualified to judge a damned thing IMHO… and the notion that wind farms should be stopped based on such lunacy is even greater lunacy.

Like or Dislike: 4 0 (+4)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:13:36 +0000

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By: Sapient

Sapient — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:04:22 +0000

Ah, the non-thinking.

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:31:23 +0000

No.

There are utterences that are tuturu, untainted, original, naive, clean and joyous. Tihei Mauri ora!

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: Sapient

Sapient — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:32:57 +0000

Greenfly,
Doth not each word that cometh from thy mouth, that doth not seek only to bestow information, seek to manipulate thy brother and thy sister? Even then may information be bestowed in such as way as to manipulate.
Each word, each nod and wave, be but a tool with which to alter the thoughts, and through this the mind, of the other.
Is this not the art of debate? Of politics? Of interaction? Of life?

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:14:40 +0000

Poetry? I know you haiku.
Not so much manipulate, but strip away dross, plaque and expose enamel.
Don’t you seek to manipulate the minds of and souls of others?
I do.
Benevolently.

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: Sapient

Sapient — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:58:30 +0000

Greenfly,
No joy in winning an easy battle. The satisfaction is of the challenge.
Not psychopaths, but they, like psychopaths, seek to manipulate the minds and souls of others. May be to different ends but both a successful artist and a successful psychopath must develop said skill into an art unto itself.
Indeed does some art tickle my soul, as does much else. The ability to tickle, and to inspire, lies in all forms of communication, both linguistic and visual.

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:38:59 +0000

Sapient – ha! Indeed. No joy in winning, eh!
Merely satisfying the mind and moving the soul?
I’m for that! Artist are psychopaths? We are the victims of art? Bring it on! It’s easy to filter harmful from inspirational, isn’t it?
Art is most certainly not mechanical – on the contrary, it leaps across mechanical boundaries and tickles the soul. Are you not tickled?

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: Sapient

Sapient — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:29:18 +0000

Greenfly,
You know me, always out to take a loosing arguement; no fun to be had in a winning arguement.
Art is mechanical; merely imitating the real, satisfying the mind, and moving the soul. The first is that which has taken the longest to master; simple imitation with a hint toward the not quite displayed. The second is very much about ratios, shapes, and tints. The last, as calculated and considered, and in the same manner, as a psychopaths manipulation of their victims.

Like or Dislike: 1 0 (+1)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 06:20:18 +0000

Sapient – feeling gladitorial tonight, eh!
Artists in the south are a bolshy and well connected lot. They know Sam Neil.
The secret to Art is out? B*gger! Can you tell me?
Millions of people (?) can make fine art paintings? Please paste link.
Art is bloody, not circuitry. No?

Like or Dislike: 0 0 (0)

By: Sapient

Sapient — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:46:17 +0000

Greenfly,
And being an influential artist gives one credibility in any field outside of art? I would question if it even gave them credibility in art, given the present state of the field it most certainly does not grant them any credibility in declaring something attractive; at least none more than any other human.
Anyway, art is dead. The secrets are out and millions of people can make fine art paintings and sculptures. Hundreds of millions if you consider computer aided art as art.

Like or Dislike: 1 1 (0)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:20:52 +0000

Charitywater.org

Now that’s the way!!!

Like or Dislike: 0 0 (0)

By: greenfly

greenfly — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:18:24 +0000

Sapient – influential artists opposed the wind farm.

Like or Dislike: 2 0 (+2)

By: Sapient

Sapient — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:55:47 +0000

I like the thumbs system, it shows that at least some people are actually reading the posts and thus there is at least some point in arguing with someone whom wont accept they are wrong other than improvement of ones own insight. That said even though most of the thumbs I get are down.

It is a stunning river but unless we stop population growth and per capita energy consumption growth we will need some new sources of energy generation. I would prefer we stopped the growth but we should not say that the river should not be damned under any circumstance as there are situations where it is simply the smart thing to do.
On a related point: WTF! Why one earth did the wind farm down south get turned down? The scenery is hardly as attractive as the locals cite and windmills would probally make it look better in my opinion. It is hypocritical to say that we want more wind generation but then oppose it in the most practical, and thus the first to become economic, places. It is pure NIMBY bullsh*t. The hills around palmy are far more attractive and, while I would rather they were covered in native bush, are not ruined by the windmills but enhanced. The first installations provided enough for palmy, the many more installations since have provided many times more than the city could ever hope to use unless we were to start producing fuels from it.
Sometimes the NIMBY attitude of the Greens and the sustainability goal work well together; wind farms is not one such instance.

Like or Dislike: 3 1 (+2)

By: peterquixote

peterquixote — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:59:11 +0000

fwogblog,
You should get rid of these stupid thumbs up thumbs down like or dislike reports.
Farrar used them to encourage proper right wing thought.

Like or Dislike: 0 4 (-4)

By: kaplan

kaplan — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 00:09:58 +0000

One worries that it is a bit of bait and switch. I mean it’s great if they block this, but not when National use it later to point to how environmentally friendly they are while they rape other natural resources.

Like or Dislike: 2 0 (+2)