“It DID turn out that the terrorism legislation was too poorly written to be able to prosecute. So he was very right about that.”

that is just a technical matter he also says he feels at home with them despite the fact that they discussed murdering pakeha for practice. Tame Iti is heard discussing “molotov”.

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That’s a video of Keith speaking against the terrorism bill, not him saying that nothing was going on up in the Uraweras. It doesn’t prove your point at all.

It DID turn out that the terrorism legislation was too poorly written to be able to prosecute. So he was very right about that.

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“keith Locke and others maintain the line that this was just a big over reaction by the police”

really?? I can’t find any press releases by Keith or Catherine on the subject of terrorism that completely dismiss the threat that was posed by those guys in the bush. Same for speeches by them. There were questions raised about the unnecessarily wide net the police cast when they broke into many innocent people’s homes though…

Can you find any, jh?

I did run across a couple of great speeches by Keith on the subject from around that time http://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/terrorism-suppression-amendment-bill-2nd-reading http://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/general-debate-peaceful-political-action http://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/terrorism-suppression-amendment-bill-first-reading tho

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My questions were genuine. Apparently my ignorance is underestimated. I wonder what I don’t know… seriously. And for the record, I bought 2 copies of the freedom fighters album. I’m guessing ‘sub judice’ means can’t say much for legal reasons. Thanks for the update Katie.
Despite my ignorance on the details of the terrorist raids, I still can’t believe that the Happy Valley protestors deserved being subjected to such treatment by the boys in blue/ninjas in black. The trauma to the kids of Ruatoki surely can’t be justified.
Re Mr Iti: It’s a funny sort of terrorist who has the status of a celeb. I would’ve thought a more covert lifestyle was the way to go. Scotty inferes “telephone conversations about carrying out bombings of power plants, armed robberies, pushing farmers off their land, killing white people for practice.” Suerly actual terrorists are aware of the potential for BB to intercept phone calls…
It’s lucky for me the US don’t act similarly to phone conversations relating to Bush and co

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“definitely terrifying for the victims of this debacle who turn out not to be terrorists.”
It is well known that keith Locke and others maintain the line that this was just a big over reaction by the police and I would place catherine delahunty in that camp. It sounds to me like she is trying to have a bob each way.

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jh and libertyscott: I think Catherine is pissed off about the police tromping through innocent bystander’s homes, not the arrest of the guys who were in the bush running around with guns. Read it again, carefully.

It certainly looked to me like the cops bashed down a whole heap of doors that they didn’t need to.

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Is any challenge to the interests of global capitalism, a form of terrorism jh?

Are unions, are calls for international labour standards, environment regulation?

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A more secure world: our shared responsibility
Report of the High-level Panel on Threats, Challenges and Change *
Contents

II. The case for comprehensive collective security
A. Threats without boundaries
17. Today, more than ever before, threats are interrelated and a threat to one is a threat to all. The mutual vulnerability of weak and strong has never been clearer.
18. Global economic integration means that a major terrorist attack anywhere in
the developed world would have devastating consequences for the well -being of
millions of people in the developing world . The World Bank estimates that the
attacks of 11 September 2001 alone increased the number of people living in
poverty by 10 million; the total cost to the world economy probably exceeded
80 billion dollars. These numbers would be far surpassed by an incident involving nuclear terrorism.
http://www.un.org/secureworld/

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Ls; calling the Greens short sighted is a cloacal notion; I for one saw you coming…titles aren’t real darling…we all go home and safe to our loved ones.
And That is the point Scotty, so sorry
another dead end
better than a sheer drop by a long vertical way

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I simply noted the cynical and deliberate attempt to link Green transport/environment protestors with guns amongst the Tuhoe.

The Tuhoe activists were easy to profile for targeting because they were outside the “bi-cultural one nation” Treaty and could be posed as
a “Maori sovereignty threat”.

From there the idea of linking guns with Maori protest activists to terrorism amongst us. It spoke to me of turf (bureacracy) self-justification and using patsies unpopular with then public to sell it.

I note it follows an earlier pattern. After 9/11 to help convince us that the counter-terrorism was a global issue (why we should be allies in the war on terrorism by bringing the threat of violence to the local scene), some threat to a visiting American emerged (Woods, a nice man in black line, our revenge of course is another nice man in black – “44″) and immidiately suspected was anyone with an anti-American profile (no one was charged). Just opposing the idea of the US going into Iraq was enough (and this was one year before they went into Iraq).

It’s about building up the security altar and justifying increasing power to manage the public and intimidate dissidents/silence dissent – thus the natural consequence is increasing police powers to search and interrogate people.

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How disgusting it is to use a phrase commonly said to commemorate those who sacrified to fight tyranny to defend your anarchist radical mates because they talked freely about doing violence to others and had a cache of firearms.

No Catherine, we wont forget the cache of 20 firearms found (thought you believed in peace), the telephone conversations about carrying out bombings of power plants, armed robberies, pushing farmers off their land, killing white people for practice.

There was enough prima facie evidence to be seriously concerned. 155 pages of smoking gun.

The Green Party jumps on bandwagons with far less evidence, rails against US militarism, but when evidence of domestic militarism and enthusiasm for violence is presented – you get all gooey about the people who talk and act like this being “victims”.

Few posts demonstrate how much hypocrisy the Greens have when talking about “non-violence” than this case.

To call this raid a “human rights violation” is an insult to the millions who have suffered at the hands of tyrannies across the world. The people involved knew what they were doing and talking about, they may not have been convicted, but the evidence revealed should at the VERY least mean that the Green Party says nothing.

Or is it all lies and a big conspiracy by the Helen Clark government to bash some Tuhoe people?

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You’ve got very sensitive noses when (eg) the US is involved but when “extravagant rhetoric” is combined with get togethers in the bush (ring- a -ring -a -rosey?) with firearms there’s nothing to see here (except police behaving atrociously). Potential Green supporters might like to judge for themselves.
I see the affidavit is still on line and it is a photocopy with references to “L” all over it suggesting L’s lawyer might have leaked it?
and one more thing…..
Peace !…..

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fin:

as an afterthought, I’ll answer your question – nobody has been found guilty of anything yet, the case has yet to go to trial; the Police still have to prove that they have a case that can be prosecuted.
All details are sub judice still.

jh:

the Pascoe affadavit was ruled inadmissable by the Solicitor General, David Collins, in November 5007; and Fairfax were taken to Court for contempt, for the fact of having published it.

Pascoe chose to allow a public servant (not a sworn officer) take responsibility for the content of the affadavit during the contempt trial, and I have never seen a more appalling piece of manipulation than the use of that young woman, a legal exec in the Anti-Terror Unit’s Auckland office, to excuse the actions of a sworn officer of the NZ Police.

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Thanks, Cath.

We celebrated with some friends from Tuuhoe throughout this week – but yesterday was particularly poignant, leading up to a film showing at the Film Archive of New Zealand, in Wellington, where “Tuuhoe: A History of Resistance” was shown to an appreciative crowd – a documentary which discusses and deconstructs the events of the Waitangi Tribunal visit to Tuuhoe in 2004.

It was teamed with an excerpt from an in-process documentary by Errol Wright, “Dissent”, which uses interviews with prominent speakers to discuss the effects of the raids on public politics and activism within the tino rangatiratanga movement.

Some of us didn’t sleep well last night, aided by the thunder & lightening that passed over our heads in the wee small hours; my thoughts especially were of where I’d been, and what I’d done, two years ago in the aftermath of state terrorists kidnapping my friends.

Arohatinonui ki nga whaanau o Ruatoki me Ruataahuna,
kia kaha e hoa maa, ka whaiwhai tonu maatou, ake ake ake.

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Fin/Sapient….think I have a handle on it – a ‘thumbs down’ means you’ve hit a synapse a little too suddenly.
But REALLY Frog – a like/dislike dichotomy is offering black or white…..no shades of green there are there?
I’d dump that idea – but that’s just me.
Fly; Out of Latex – those snotballs cost a fortune and only drew passing interest – this blog editing is not idealogical, except in the sense that if you’re having a bit of fun, this is probably the wrong place right now.
But with the announcements of all BB’s spying(indicating they haven’t a Clue!) who wouldn’t be disingenuous. It’s an art really…

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