This topic carried on in a later thread:
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/07/20/moving-forward-on-folic-acid-fortification

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The spokesperson for the medical profession says:

“This government has not yet grown up”

.. sticky issue, very sticky!

Key will suffer for this.

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Labour isn’t happy:
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5735752/folic-acid-deferral-a-cheap-cop-out-labour-says/

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Gerrit, have you read any of the material in the links or even what I have already written? The folate is needed before a woman realises that she is pregnant. Givden that about half of all pregnancies are unplanned, by the time these women realise that they are pregnant, the damage to the foetus may already have been done. There are hundreds of thousands of sexually-active women of child-bearning ages who could become pregnant.

Folate is not a medication – it is Vitamin B9 a.k.a. Vitamin M, so it is a dietary supplement. It occurs naturally in wheat, but is removed when that wheat is refined into white flour. This fortification is merely replacing what the bakers have stripped out. It is required by growing cells, so since cancer cells are cells whose growth is out of control, it isn’t surprising that it may lead to increased rates of cancer growth. However NTDs are NOT the only condition which is worsened by below-RDA levels of folate. Most of the population could benefit from increased folate levels.

Trevor.

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Gerrit says:

Rubbish, pregnant women in conjunction with their trained medical professional are easily placed on a folic acid treatment if required.

All it takes is PERSONAL responsibility by the pregnant woman to seek out the medical advice.

Which might sound reasonable, until you think about the need for folates to be present in the woman before and at the time of conception.
PERSONAL responsibility? Hmmm…

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I understand that folic acid is much higher in wholegrain bread than in white bread. Does the naturally-occuring folate in wholegrain bread have the same potential side effects as added folate in white bread?

If there’s a difference in effect, is it just because the fortified white bread has more?

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trevor29,

I call it a tragedy for the families of those going to be affected by NTDs in those 3 years, and a long-term drain on our health and welfare budgets.

Rubbish, pregnant women in conjunction with their trained medical professional are easily placed on a folic acid treatment if required.

All it takes is PERSONAL responsibility by the pregnant woman to seek out the medical advice.

No need for ALL members of the public to take folic acid for just those few women who MIGHT need it.

I suppose next will be high blood pressure medicine, a reasonably high number of people are on that type of medicine. Why not put it in the bread as well?

And how about high cholestoral medicine, we have a supposed obesity epidemic so why not add that to bread (or KFC), and how about the resultant diabetes problem, lets add that medicine to the bread.

Where do you stop taking care of every problem in society by mass mediciation. And where do you say to people, it is your INDIVIDUAL responsibility to take the best medicine (on the advice of the health provider) to take care of your own well being.

Mind you, mass medication of Ritalin might make us all a bit more maniable to each other.

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michaela said:
Fortifying bread with folic acid is unecessary and nothing more than a scam to make extra profits for the manufacturers.

This sounds plausible at first hearing, but it is actually the opposite. The bread manufacturers are opposing it because it would cut into their profits (they believe) due to a combination of increased costs to them and reduced sales to people who want to avoid extra folate. The recent claim from their association that delaying fortification is a victory for common sense backs this view.

The people pushing for fortification are the health authorities, who can see the statistics for and against folate fortification and the benefits shown in the dozens of countries that have already introduced it.

Trevor.

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Key’s callous action will result in the birth of who knows how many spinally damaged babies. You could say. If you were fomenting mischief.

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More information here:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-folate.html

It is also worth noting some of the other benefits of folate levels of at least the RDA, including reduced incidence of dementia, sperm defects, heart disease, strokes,…

Trevor.

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Folic acid has been shown to reduce the risk of babies being born with defects such as spina bifida, but bakers say women would need to eat at least 11 slices of bread a day to make a difference to the health of their unborn child.

This just illustrates the lack of science in the claims from the bakers. The 11-slices a day figure is derived from the number of slices needed to obtain the RDA from bread alone. Unless a person is on a really bad diet and therefore likely to have obvious health problems, they will be obtaining a significant portion of the RDA already. And even if they only eat one or two slices of bread a day and the fortified bread does not top up that level of folic acid to the RDA, it will make a difference to their health and the possibilities of NTDs and other defects in their offspring.

Trevor.

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http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5735500/government-defers-folic-acid-decision-for-three-years/

Trevor.

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I heard a sound-bite on the news this morning saying that Key had put a 3-year delay on the manditory fortification of bread with folic acid. The Bakers Association called this “a triump for common sense”. I call it a tragedy for the families of those going to be affected by NTDs in those 3 years, and a long-term drain on our health and welfare budgets.

The problem hasn’t gone away with this announcement. The New Zealand diet is below the recommended daily allowance for folic acid and it shows in our NTD rates.

Trevor.

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fin said:
“the molybdenum was applied as directed by experts who said it was needed.”

As an expert who has often been misinterpreted, I wonder what actually happened.

Were the original experts that recommended some form of molybdenum supplementation subsequently found to be wrong, or did the molybdenum actually do what it was intended to do?

Were those the same experts as the experts that supplied the directions regarding adding the molybdenum to the fertilizer, or were they even consulted with respect to the rates?

Were the fertilizer applicators actually following those directions or did they apply more than needed to be sure?

Trevor.

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Owen said,
“That too is why farmers up north have to inject cows with copper – it it not because they don’t eat enough greens.”

Some soils are low in copper, however the main reason for copper deficiency in NZ is because we put too much molybdenum on with the fert in years gone by. This binds the copper and makes it unabsorbable.
This point may be quite relavent to the discussion as the molybdenum was applied as directed by experts who said it was needed.

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Trevor,
As I said, I would buy fortified bread at times without much thought. However my supplement taking is not regular so I’m unlikely to be overdoing anything…
To decide whether the study or the review holds most weight would require more reading than I’m up for.
I think you have got the point though. People generally don’t like being told what to do/eat. You can tell me to “just do it” and the govt can tell me to “just eat it”, but I make my own bread so unless it’s going into the flour…
What was your veiw re the healthy food in schools thing?

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fin,

One study of 640 men found “folic acid users were more likely to have developed prostate cancer” but a review of studies of 35,000 people found no increase in cancer risk. Which study is more reliable?

My earlier (wiki) link included other benefits of folate supplements including eyesight, heart, strokes, men’s fertility, etc.

The benefits have been proven in many countries.

To borrow a phrase “Just do it”.

Trevor.

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“Acidophalis yoghurt? Whoop! Whoop!”
I suspect if you did a market survey you would find that there was a general resistance because of the acid in the name.
I know there was with me because at that time I was suffering from acidosis.

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The problem with expecting pregnant women to take folate supplements is that the damage may already be done to the foetus by the time the woman actually recognises that she is pregnant.

Trevor.

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Apparantly we are low in B9 in our diet just as we are low in copper and Selenium.
I don’t know why we are low in B9.
But we have to recognise that there are times when eating the right vegies is not enough. New Zealand soils are dreadfully short of selenium and if the selenium is not in the soil you won’t find it in the vegies. That too is why farmers up north have to inject cows with copper – it it not because they don’t eat enough greens.
So every now and then I take a selenium supplement to keep my skin healthy.
When my aging mother began to suffer ulcers etc when she cut or damaged her skin I recommended selenium pills and the improvement was dramatic.

I believe brazil nuts are high in selenium so you can eat them if you don’t want to buy the Healtheries pills.

I don’t approve of nanny interventions but if they do put folic acid in bread I won’t lose any sleep over it. It is only replacing the B9 lost in processing the wheat into flour.

When I went to grow olives I soon learned that if you live on soil once covered in Kauri forest there will be virtually no boron in the soil. Kauri are notorious for stripping out the trace elements. So we add boron to the soil because otherwise the olives are hopeless. Same with Citrus. They both get yellow leaf.

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