I think it needs to be fronted by am MP who is associated with health issues, and who doesn’t have a permissive, libertarian image. The obvious choice would be Sue Kedgley.

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It was her bill by inheritance. Some folks were giving her a hard time for NOT releasing it, so she did. She knew what we were up against, but the clamor wasn’t going to go away.

I never, ever, advocated for her to turn it loose. Not without the spadework and someone counting likely votes and coming up with a surplus. First. The people advocating should have planned ahead before they started.

There was no PLAN and the people fronting the effort should be, as Nandor and I have both pointed out, the sick people who would benefit from the medicine. THEY should be the ones in Women’s Day.

We do the grunt work. It is a LOT harder for an MP to picture kids hanging around the schoolyard inhaling deeply from someone who is suffering and asking for relief from pain. It is a LOT harder to say it is “just another lunatic fringe effort from the Greens” when it isn’t a Green, but a patient in a hospital who is doing the asking.

Even if we help with the wording and the funding and the rest.

respectfully
BJ

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Greenfly – sorry, I misunderstood. I think Met could be very effective in that role, and I am not critical of her work on this bill – the reality is that the movement was not organised and an MP cannot be expected to carry the whole of a difficult load. It needed a grassroots campaign around it.

Actually the decision of who should front the Parliamentary bit next time should be decided at a later stage. It will entirely depend on the tactical situation of the moment.

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Then I am truely puzzled by the criticisms that were cast in the days leading up to the presentation of the bill in Parliament. If we had no confidence that Metiria could do the business, why did we berate her for not doing the business?

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Greenfly

I don’t think Meyt can play the leading role here. The Green party is “tainted” in the eyes of a large segment of the population and anything like this coming from us directly WILL get the Nicky Wagner treatment.

Nandor is better, but still will have “guilt by association” problems with some of them. He is probably able to get to enough of them.

It is a numbers issue. Realistically changing the minds of 30 out of the 80 who voted reflexively. No small task… but targeting the more open minds can get us there. Meyt could and should work the Maori block as they appear to have had VERY little homework on this issue.

respectfully
BJ

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Nandor – I explained myself poorly, it seems. I meant for Metiria to be the Parliamentary face, presenting the issue as a fate accompli, due to the background work already done by ‘us’. Hers should be the MP’s face that launches the 1000 ships (us) and drives home the advantage at the final confrontation – in the House. Her face should also be that on the pages of the Woman’s Weekly, as suggested by Phil, on Breakfast, on cereal boxes if necessary, with a clear, unsullied message.
Perhaps we still disagree.

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greenfly – i totally disagree with you. Not that I think I should front the campaign. I don’t. I am strongly of the view that it needs to be a medipot users who can speak for themself. What well people (I mean that in a relative sense) can do is facilitate and support by doing the grunt work. For example Phil’s library will be v useful.

But by the same token Met can’t do it IMHO. In addition a politician is the last person to run it. A politician will polarise the issue along party lines, and is not equipped for the grassroots activising that campaigns need. Politicians are for end game.

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Nandor – is it improper to ask which causes you are championing now? I read your article in Organic NZ on the food gardens on marae etc. and am delighted that you are a figure in that movement.

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I don’t have to say anything more Phil.

It is up to Nandor if he is game for it … and since this is not going to be an easy little hobby for him to take on in his copious spare time, I suggest that it is up to us to help in some tangible ways.

Establish a fund for this purpose? We still need a fulcrum in the Nat-ACT camp. We can’t count on a member’s bill getting drawn.

If it is an idea of THEIRS, they can’t just pull a Nicky Wagner.

respectfully
BJ

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jh – you have no idea what I think

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Oh look! There’s an elephant in the room! It’s Metiria (sorry about the graphic image!)
Despite yesterday’s result and the accusations that have been leveled, Metiria is the one to do the business. Her ‘indications’ that there were aspects/support/preparation lacking in this particular asault on the ramparts should not be dismissed. Arm the woman, for pity’s sake! Get in behind! Nandor’s tautoko would be invaluable but Metiria’s the Amazon for this cause. We didn’t do our homework, didn’t know what was preventing a successful campaign here and didn’t plug the holes to stop success leaking away.

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“Sorry Nandor… you are probably smarter about this than anyone else, but we have to sell it to the (empty) suits. They have prejudices.”

doesn’t Nandor believe Hailie Selasie is God ((the Almighty)- even though HS responded to the suggestion in the negative))?

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um..!..b.j..

i am not advocating any role for myself..

..(in general..i loathe most of humanity..

..and prefer to keep my distance..)

(all i can offer is the resource of the four + years of collecting/collating the health-news about pot..at whoar..

..so am able to bury their bullsh*t in links/reputable/credible-evidence)

and i totally disagree with yr dismissal of nandor..

..why try to find/train someone else..(let alone build a media/public-image from scratch..)

..when we have nandor..

..freed from the constraints of the green party..

..and when he was in parliament..

..he was one of the most-liked..by mp’s of all political persuasions..

..plus..he gets on/got on gangbusters with the media..

..(their doors are already open to him..)

..and ..y’know..if you’ve ever seen him ‘work’ a room..

..you know he is the silver-tongued orator/charmer of all who encounter him..

(.if he was oirish..we’d say he ‘has the gift of the gab’..)

..and when i wrote before about ‘re-evaluating-assets’..

..nandor would be one of the biggest/most valuable of those assets..

..if he were willing..there would be no-one better..

..(plus..he would get to take care of ‘unfinished-business’..)

(ahem..!..sorry to talk about you in the third person..when you are (sorta) in the room..eh..?..but..y’know..!)

..whaddayareckon..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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On second thought, maybe Nandor IS the person to front it. He probably can get access to folks in parliament more easily.

I don’t think I can guess the who… I know too little and I withdraw my objection. I had not thought of the countervailing advantage.

respectfully
BJ

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Phil

As angry as you are, you are NOT the person to be organizing. You can be effective behind the scenes, supporting communication and providing links to information but this is going to take someone with more subtlety and less confrontation in their style to make it happen.

Confrontation will not make this happen, though it will get press. Any press coverage will not be meaningful unless it focuses on sick people.

Nandor would be MUCH better, but he still suffers from an “image” problem with some segments of the population. Sorry Nandor… you are probably smarter about this than anyone else, but we have to sell it to the (empty) suits. They have prejudices.

You need to find that person and recruit him/her. Then run a reasonable lobbying campaign… no I am NOT available for this. I have to set priorities too, and the climate-change consultation is next Monday.

Don’t make the sick person see the MP. Make the MP go to see the sick person.

Make sure to keep them on point. The “decriminalization” smoke screens are bullsh!t and easily argued. I reckon I beat both those and the actual medpot arguments but I chose to allow the arguments to be made so they could be aired and answered.

However, when you go one-on-one with any MP (or their staff) you have to keep them on point. NOT get drawn on the irrelevant arguments. They have absolutely no ability to do that themselves… the evidence of their comments is clear on that. The method is to cut every one of them off short with the fact that this is about medicine, not decriminalization. They will be able to find nothing to say that does not draw that response.

It tends to force people to stop and think that does. Not telling them they are wrong, but that they aren’t arguing the proper point.

Convincing staff is almost as good as convincing the MP him/herself. Don’t be afraid to spend time on them.

Sapient… I am not offended… the other side of this argument has been doctoring the ball since 1937.

Just curious…

Is there anyone at the party level who does this sort of planning – thinking?

respectfully
BJ

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and the media must be ‘worked’..

..to galvanise public opinion..

..and i disagree with fly..

..in the contention that the nandor-brand is somehow tainted on this issue..

..i think you are the best possible person to front it..

..you will have no problem differentiating to the media/public the differencees between the ‘political/freedom-rights around full legalisation..

..but is one of commonsense..

..and more importantly..

..compassion..

..and you have been ‘gone’ long enough for the media to want to ‘have you’ again..

..and hey..!..’grassroots-activism’..

..eh..?

..feel the power..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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i hope so..

there need to be some re-grouping..

..re-evaluation of assets..

..and judicious use of those assets..

..that these m.ps are so mired in ignorance on this issue..

..must be changed..

..(as a first step.)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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I agree Greenfly that my own advocacy can add confusion. Nevertheless while I think medipot users need to front the campaign, that shouldn’t stop other parties, even those seen as too partial, from expressing ourselves, especially in accusing the Parliament after the fact. But it remains a problem.

To be effective maybe greencross needs healthy people to shoulder some of the more tedious work, but leave the public voice to the sick.

As for the failure of NORML / ALCP? Well its a hard one Phil. I think that the movement has lost a lot of momentum after the failure to achieve reform under the last Labour Govt (for which I accept some blame). Maybe its time for another wave? Maybe this defeat can galvanise us – because it is so transparently wrong.

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Maybe Greenfly… but I wasn’t writing for the general public that time. I was deliberately being insulting to the parliament itself without descending into the invective they truly deserve.

I have no doubt that they DO read the opinion pages… even if some of them move their lips as they do so… and if they have no time for it their staff does it for them.

I don’t fancy my chances, “the moving finger writes and having writ moves on”… but inflammatory speech is good for circulation.

respectfully
BJ

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i agree with what fly and kevyn say..

..this is a time not for crying..but for anger/action..

..that they refused further discussion..

..just further indicts them..

..it is time to stop piss*ng around..

..there needs to be a meet of some sort..(a/la post ge-attempts..)

..we need to fuse this anger into a coherent campaign to push these facts in theses ignorant m.p’sfaces..

..and to generate a public groundswell..to further pressure these ‘representitives of the people’..

..to do just that..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

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