by frog
So, dear readers, our story so far…
MPs in Britain make pigs of themselves at the trough of public funding which prompts NZ media to ask about MP expenses in Aotearoa.
The Green Party, always a fan of honest politics, agrees to go public with Parliamentary travel and accommodation expenses.
National and Labour talk about a cross-Party committee to review transparency while cursing the Greens under their breath.
The Green Party makes public its expenses anyway.
Metiria has said:
It is traditionally the role of the Green Party to keep the old grey Parties honest and we will do so again.
There is a need for significant public discussion about how funding to MPs and political parties is managed.
There are complicated issues around political campaigns and party funding for example.
What is not complicated is the principle that the public has the right to know and to make decisions about their own democracy.
Now that the Greens are leading, what odds that National or Labour will suddenly find their courage too?
Published in Parliament by frog on Thu, June 4th, 2009
Tags: MP expenses
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Nil
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Kudos. I was blown away by the amounts the, man! Yes, we can’t compare it with anyone else, yet, though I believe ACT has committed to doing the same.
I imagine you might want to put a little ‘P.S.’ with the amounts spent on GHG offsets? You know that criticism is coming!
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How can we get Ryan Sproull to comment here?
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Why does Russel fly around so much? He’s a list MP. And, supposedly, anti fuel burning activities. Hasn’t he heard of video conferencing over IP?
Offsetting is a Gore-ticket-clipping-cop-out, especially when its on the public dime.
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Why does Russel fly around so much?
We think it’s because he’s Superman, Blue!
He ain’t gonna walk!
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He’s a party leader….. useful to compare with other party leaders I guess.
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Yes, lets see how often the Greens catch a cab while telling the rest of us to cram onto dangerous, smelly and unreliable public transport.
Lets see how often the Greens fly while telling us the damage we are doing by jetting off on overseas holidays.
Or are there special privileges for the nomenklatura?
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Bro – did you consider that the ‘chunk of wood’ that Metiria wears around her neck is there to off-set the carbon she burns while travelling in the Green Party’s private jet? No. You didn’t think it through before firing of, did you Bro.
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> I imagine you might want to put a little ‘P.S.’ with the amounts spent on GHG offsets? You know that criticism is coming!
Thanks for the thought StephenR. I’ll talk to them about posting some numbers on their offsetting. Note they’ve been offsetting from 1 Jan 2007, pay their offsetting personally, and use carboNZero: see http://www.greens.org.nz/node/14802
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The alligator mouth and hummingbird brain brigade finds out how footwear tastes yet again
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Accommodation allowance, Wellington:
# Jeanette Fitzsimons $2,000/mth = $24,000/year
# Catherine Delahunty $2,000/mth = $24,000/year
Maxed out, huh. Is that coming from that taxpayer funded super scheme?
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>>He’s a party leader….. useful to compare with other party leaders I guess.
He’s a party leader of a party demanding we all cut back our transportation activities. His actions are hilarious. Just another “leader” “leading” by example, huh. Never heard of telecommuting?
I shall treat all suggestions of restricting travel to prevent climate change with laughter.
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Offsets – what a con. As if that’s going to make any difference to anything other than Als bank balance.
Just change your behavior, like you demand of everyone else. No more planes for Green Party MPs. Either walk, bike, train or telecommute. Show leadership.
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Oh, and move to Wellington permanently so you don’t have to commute, and save taxpayers money on accommodation allowances. Within walking/biking distance of parliament, of course.
No? Why not?
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BP
Your logic is brilliant but flawed.
First is that we don’t demand that NOBODY takes the plane or private car. What we demand is that the country as a whole support reductions in those activities by supporting alternatives. The alternative to flying would be high-speed rail, if we had any and even then you’d hit the water pretty hard between the islands. So we do indeed walk where we can, fly when we must and buy offsets, putting OUR money where our mouth is. You are simply all mouth here.
Second is that we don’t live in Wellington permanently because no parliamentarian (except those from Wellington) should do so. We know we weren’t elected for life, which is apparently different from your stereotype of us but that’s OK too. We represent people all over the country and must communicate with them all, just like any other good representative would.
Thirdly, what we “demand of everyone else” is a false assertion. We request (not demand) that EVERYONE including ourselves attempt to keep our footprint down. We do not require anyone to give up completely the activities that increase our footprint, but we need to all work to offset the impact of our activities.
In railing about our “demands” when in fact all you are able to offer are false characterizations and erroneous assertions. BP…. it only harms YOU because we know what we do and who we are. You are the one in error.
BJ
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this is the Herald’s talking point of the day …
http://blogs.nzherald.co.nz/blog/your-views/2009/6/5/should-expense-acccounts-all-mps-be-made-public/
will you wreckers and haters attempt to take over the conversation there too?
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>>The alternative to flying
There are many alternatives to flying. Not flying and telecommuting are two.
>>buy offsets,
cheatneutral.com
>>We know we weren’t elected for life
I didn’t work in London all my life. I moved there when I worked there. Same with Auckland. Same with Sydney. Almost all of us move to where the work is, except MPs sucking the public teat, and industry fat cats.
>>We do not require anyone to give up completely the activities
That’s fine. I never started flying to the place of my work, therefore I need change nothing. I own numerous trees. Easy to rationalise, eh.
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>>wreckers and haters
Anyone pointing out an inconvenient truth. There is a cost to be holier-than-thou, and that is you must BE holier-than-thou, else you’ll get blowback.
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Calm down BP. Ranting doesn’t convince anyone.
BTW, I’m happy for the Green MPs to use my low carbon lifestyle * to allow them to travel around the country on essential business.
Who has volunteered their low carbon emissions for you ?
* in 2008 i travelled by car 500km, diesel bus 500km, consumed 36kg of LPG, and purchased 100% zero carbon electricity.
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um..!..did you really think this one thru..?..metiria..?
..it would appear to be fast coming back to bite you on the bum..
farrar is trying to whip up a sh*torm against you/fitzsimons/green mp’s….
..over having 24.000 a year rent in wellington..(the maximum allowed..(!)
..and that rent being paid into your superannuation account..
..which ‘owns’ the houses you both rent..and ‘own’..
..in hindsight..
….this could not have been as ‘clever’ as first thought..eh..?
(and at the time/’way back then’.. when i first heard of this ‘innovative-super-scheme’..
..i thought it was altogether ‘too clever’..
..’a bit of a wheeze’..
..eh..?)
ah well..!..you did open pandoras’ box..eh..?
..we’ll see how it all pans out..
..and um..!..
..yr environmental footprints..?..along with yr carnivorous ways..
..mean you have an elephant-sized one..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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oops..!..farrar-link..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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double-oops..!
. http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/06/mps_expenses_to_be_disclosed.html#comments
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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farrar is trying to whip up a sh*torm against you/fitzsimons/green mp’s….
get over there and sort it out for us Phil.
I’d be in, but my Mum died last night and I’m on the road (12 hours straight)
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Fastbike,
I could fly to my work, given it is overseas, but I choose not to. There you go. I’ve saved tons of carbon. Tons and tons. Lots and lots.
Easy-peasy.
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Also, doesn’t this make a mockery of your argument that everyone, including NZ, must participate in the eco-tax rort, because we’re all INDIVIDUALLY responsible, even though we, as a country, make very little difference?
Fastbike appears to be arguing that it is ok for some people not to participate.
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BP, typical hypothetical BS answer. I provided figures. As usual, you obsfucate and deal in confusion.
I’ve personally pledged to allow my low carbon lifestyle to be a counter to the necessity of MP’s travelling around the country to represent US. That is quite different from you CHOOSING where you want to live or work. I can’t imagine you could see the difference.
And BTW, Green MPs also personally pay for carbon offsets from Landcare Carbon Zero.
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sorry to hear about yr mum..fly..
..and..i wd find it difficult to defend..
..when we have british cabinet ministers falling on swords over acouple of rented porn-flicks..
..an institutional 24 grand ‘playing’ of the system..
..just screams for scrutiny..
..(esp. as metiria did a holier-than-thou sneer at the other mps’..
..goading them to exposure of their own expenses..
..imho..this diplayed a blinding political naievete at best..
..and if all the green mp’s show-up as being ‘in on it’..?
..(and it seems to be hard to see how they won’t..eh..?..)
i think in journalism terms..this is called a ‘breaking story’..
…eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Ha ha….Phool says that Farrar is trying to whip up a storm when the reality is that he is only telling the truth.
Once again the Greens are exposed as hypocrites.
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“..And BTW, Green MPs also personally pay for carbon offsets from Landcare Carbon Zero…”
um..!..excuse me fastbike..!
..let’s overloook .. for now .. how carbon offsets are a modern form of pleniary indulgance..
(ie..sin away..just pay the sin-tax..!..)
..but isn’t that money ‘they pay’ ..actually paid by the taxpayers..?
(correct me if i’m wrong here..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phils got it right.
So long as the media don’t play their “free green pass card” yet again, this one is very juicy! Greens shine light on system, blind themselves in the process. All handed to journalists on a plate.
My, my.
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big bro..your lack of any comprehension of any form of subtlties ..
..let alone basic facts..
..is benchmark-setting..eh..?
..btw..when will you answer the question..of how you..an ‘animal-lover’..
..(yum..!..i love animals!..both fried and roasted..!..)
..how you can politically support former pig concentration camp-commandant..
..roger douglas..?
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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How many Green MPs and associated hangers-on took the ferry, train combo to Dunedin last week (and bus from Christchurch on to Dunedin)? Did they fly? Why?
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anyone interested in joining ‘the vegan party’..?
..slogan:..’feed the world..!..don’t poison it..!’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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y’know..!..turn nz into the paradise it could be..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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BP
>>The alternative to flying
There are many alternatives to flying. Not flying and telecommuting are two.
Which we do. However, because of what people in parliament are REQUIRED to do if they are to do their job which is to represent the country as a whole in the process of self-government, correctly, they have to travel. Your point is simply not valid and the insults continue to flow.
>>buy offsets,
cheatneutral.com
Which is about being unfaithful. It bears not at ALL on whether the offsets we are buying from an accredited agency are valid. NOR is the morality of using carbon offsets comparable to the morality of cheating on your spouse. Another asinine comment. You are not doing well at all here.
>>We know we weren’t elected for life
I didn’t work in London all my life. I moved there when I worked there. Same with Auckland. Same with Sydney. Almost all of us move to where the work is, except MPs sucking the public teat, and industry fat cats.
Go back to the FIRST point. The job of the MP involves travel and unless that MP is from the Wellington region it would be dumb to have a second home in Wellington. Unless someone is independently wealthy and can buy the house outright the mortgage cost will exceed the $2k per month outlay for rent. Get REAL BP. You are just jerking yourself off here.
>>We do not require anyone to give up completely the activities
That’s fine. I never started flying to the place of my work, therefore I need change nothing. I own numerous trees. Easy to rationalise, eh.
BP, you may be doing fine at keeping your footprint down. Nobody here has even begun to try to judge you on that. The point we try to make is that it is important for each of us in our particular station in life, to do what we CAN do and probably a little more than we might be completely comfortable doing, to keep that footprint down.
Your posts remain both wrong and impolite.
Try harder.
BJ
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big bro, in case you don’t get phil u’s “pig concentration camp-commandant” reference in relation to your great hero, I’ve provided a bit of history over at g.blog.
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Fastbike Said
“* in 2008 i travelled by car 500km, diesel bus 500km, consumed 36kg of LPG, and purchased 100% zero carbon electricity.”
100% zero carbon electricity, hahaha there is no such thing.
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With respect, BJ, you’re coming across like a pompous ass
People in parliament are not *required* to travel over the country, especially list MPs. They choose to do so. And they chose to do so using planes, which is hilarious. They can represent people without ever meeting them, and indeed never meet most of the people they do represent face to face.
>>Which is about being unfaithful.
It’s showing what a fraud carbon offsetting is. A penance.
>>The job of the MP involves travel
They don’t need to fly by plane. They don’t need to travel near as often as they do. In times before air travel, they didn’t travel as much as they do now.They choose to.
>>to do what we CAN do and probably a little more than we might be completely comfortable doing, to keep that footprint down
Some people pompously stand up and lecture others on this issue, whilst churning through the air miles. I guess you don’t find it funny, but I do. It also reinforces my view of politicians in general, and the left in particular.
It will be a great day when most of them are fired, and government returns to core business: law and order and property rights.
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I don’t know what BJ is talking about the NZ Parliment worked before the Airplane was invented so why do they need to fly at the taxpayer’s expense.
All Green list MPs should be required to live in Wellington, everyone else has to live close to their job why not them.
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And we have very cheap, instant telecommunications now, too, which they didn’t have then.
There is a way they can avoid almost all of their travel, and still keep in touch. But they choose not to do so. The choose the most polluting way possible.
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I can’t believe BJ is supporting the junk science that is carbon offsets.
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get off the grass..!..blue peter..
..they don’t ‘choose’..it’s the system..
..and hey..!..
..why aren’t you at kiwiblog..
..asking about the national mps’ ‘arrangments’..eh..?
now..there’s another ‘breaking story’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I don’t much care for National either, philu, but at least they understand we can’t live beyond our means.
>>..they don’t ‘choose’..it’s the system..
They do so choose. They could work differently, but they choose to take planes to get around for the same reason the rest of us do – it’s more convenient.
That’s fine, but when they start lecturing others, I shall be here to remind them of their own actions.
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“..I don’t much care for National either, philu, but at least they understand we can’t live beyond our means..”
r u talking about our environmental ‘means’..?
cos’ national is as guilty as labour of that..
..but not really ..eh..?
‘living beyond means’ is yr far-right shorthand/code for ..
..the reason to dismantle the welfare state..eh..?
..so that rugged-individualists such as yourself…
..aren’t ‘burdened’ by social-taxes’..
..eh..?
but i do like yr argument..(when greened..)
..in that ..yes..to a ridiculous degree..
..we are living way way ‘beyond our means’..
(fact:..the melting of the greenland ice-cap..
..would raise the ocean levels by seven metres..)
..how’s them for ‘means’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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that’s a hard line Fly. Angels for your heart Child
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“..the reason to dismantle the welfare state..eh..?”
We need a reason?
“so that rugged-individualists such as yourself…
..aren’t ‘burdened’ by social-taxes’..”
Damn right!
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clever move of the greens to invest their rent into real estate…a decent MP should be out and about within their electorates or conducting party business where ever possible in a frugal fashion naturally. $2000 per month to travel from Katikati to Whitianga ( the Coromandel electorate Jeanette has worked), Thames to Wellington ( for parliamentary business) and everywhere else she is has been required to attend as “Party Co Leader” and back home again is pretty good going Jeantte, congratulations!!! Real value for money if you ask me…
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We won’t be able to afford the welfare state as it is now. It’s unsustainable.
BTW:
Pedestrians and bikers about to get flattened by huge four wheelers. Outrageous.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/2474325/Buses-back-in-mall/
Save our mall! We don’t want flippin’ buses going through there.
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>>$2000 per month
That’s just the Wellington living allowance. And they still haven’t answered who the landlord is it is being paid to. It might be the Green Super Fund, in which case it’s not really rent, is it.
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A Wellington living allowance???
The bludgers eat at Parliament and basically live in parliament buildings.
How can ANYBODY justify a $2000 a month living allowance.
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Funny how National supporters are all worried about spending – except for roads. OMG how they love that $10.7 billion extra to be wasted on state highways in the next decade.
Do they all have motorways fetishes or something?
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Spending money on motorways is not a waste.
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BP
And you are one of the “Jack” variety, but that is your privilege.
When we didn’t have planes of course we didn’t get representatives wandering about the country in them looking into things and making sure that they heard from the people they were trying to represent. Government works better when people have better access to their representatives… but of course, in the NaCT dream only the wealthy really deserve to be represented.
You surely have heard about the “magic rock” that made the farmer so successful…. and we all move a lot faster than we did 100 years ago.
Comparisons to previous centuries are simply a pitiful attempt to push US into that mold. We don’t fit there. We don’t want to go back to then, as you so wish we do.
A real carbon offset is a bit more than a penance BP. Unlike the prayers of the priest to offset some sin, the investment in additional forestry or some other means of reducing carbon is going to do a little good. If everyone on the planet offset 100% would it have an effect? By DEFINITION it has to… though it is implausible as a scenario. The point though is that if 100% offset would fix things the partial offset purchased from a reputable vendor of such, will partially fix things. It is RESPONSIBLE and responsibility is the one thing that NaCT and NatLabs avoid taking no matter what the subject.
I hope to see data from the other parties someday. I am not holding my breath.
BJ
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City council doesn’t listen very hard. I agree. The bus should not be mixed with the pedestrian traffic.
BJ
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jarbury said: Funny how National supporters are all worried about spending – except for roads … Do they all have motorways fetishes or something?
Ah, that explains why Stephen Joyce departed so quickly from the SH20 extension opening. He must have been so excited by the big new motorway that he needed to dash off to relieve himself.
I suppose, to his credit, he didn’t do a “Worth” and coerce someone into assisting him with the task at hand.
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I can see a fair few jokes about the worthiness of various figures coming.
BJ
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I applaud your effort to be transparant. But what you have disclosed are pretty whissy washy. The dollar amount under big category heading??? If you are genuinely want to be transparent, please disclosed the details under those headings. As you might know yourself, the immoral claims on troubled British MPs were on the details (i.e. by Hazel Blears: three Kit Kat Chunkies and a glass of wine from the mini-bar of a posh hotel billed to the taxpayer at £7). I dare you to be to as specific as what has been release for the British MPs. Dont just pretend.
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