by frog
As the Green Party AGM approaches, Jeanette Fitzsimons enjoys her last few days as the Co-leader of the Greens. I wondered what must be going through her mind as she readies herself to hand over the reins of power? What have been some of her highlights? Who are some of the people she most admires? And what is the life of Parliament’s most conscientious MP going to look like without the responsibility of our future resting so heavily on her?
Download: There She Goes: Jeanette Steps Down (MP3 and OGG)
This work is licenced under a Creative Commons Licence.
Published in Media | THE GAME by frog on Wed, May 27th, 2009
Tags: highlights, Jeanette Fitzsimons
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
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Vale Jeanette – an admirable career from any corner; may you find rich rewards in the changes you are making.
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It will be a cold day in hell when I praise Comrade’s Locke, Bradford and “Mad” Delahunty.
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It also reflects the inability of the media to deal with the Green Party as it is – I guess we don’t fit the convenient power structures that are more easy to report.
I believe Jeanette was reflecting that the Greens do our policy making and future planning as a collective and the other MP’s are as effective in their roles.
Consensus decision making is the key to the Green strength and growth and if only society woke up to this they may oppose the processes like the present centralisation of Auckland to Big Brother – not the minnow who writes crap for this blog
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Fair enough, if this is the way the Greens go about arriving at a decision then why are you so opposed to consensus when it comes to the Auckland super city or the people of Wanganui wanting to retain the correct and traditional spelling of the name of their city.
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I would say that a consensus process would best be served by a structure of governance that allows the locals more say over their community environments and not geared to allow central planning systems to dictate what happens. A vote for Aucklanders would be a bare minimum but falls short of true community democracy. In England they now have legislation which allows local government to guide the input of central government in their area. Standard prescriptions don’t work and anyone trying to enforce them are usually trying to make others fit their power or insecurity needs.
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–noun, plural -sus⋅es.
1.majority of opinion: The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
2.general agreement or concord.
Seems pretty clear to me, the majority of people do not want racist seats on the new Auckland super city council nor do the majority of people in Wanganui want the spelling of their city to change.
According to Green party principals they (the Greens) should be in agreement with the people of Auckland and Wanganui, to differ would be the height of hypocrisy.
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The Greens like to champion concensus only when it suits them it seems.
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I suspect that your dictionary doesn’t have an up-to-date political definition of consensus – in the green circles in which I’ve seen consensus policy development used, it is not decided by majority-rule, but by discussion and negotiation until a solution is found which all present can accept – the option to be recorded as dissenting without blocking consensus is used on occasion.
It is not a philosophy of ‘might has right’, but of deep philosophical agreement to newly-agreed or developed ideas, brought out of a round of developers, to be presented to membership as a whole.
This is the foundation for the policies which green membership have input into developing, and is the reason why green politics generally has a much more stable foundation than other, top-down hierarchical systems of political administration.
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Jeanette has been so popular because she was strong to not be mucked around, but showed the feminine process of listening well.
Something I don’t at all see in Rodney Hide, John Banks, Michael Laws – insecurity has been shown as the basis of that type of stance and it is best we get brave enough to chuck it out for the sake of survival.
By the way I am older male and find the process of a big proportion of men so immature. I feel like banging their heads to gether but that isn’t PC.
When we change the process and structure of economics these bullies will no longer get a free lunch and have to work as part of the community.
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Oh? Do tell!
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It is a lot tougher type of leadership to work this way but empowered people have a far stronger process.
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I am reliably informed there were several Green Voters or more in this number.
Wonder how many Referendums Auckland will get over the decisions that need to be made. Keen are we?
Even slight investigation of City Tunnels shows them fraught with problems and hugely expensive (and unpopular with motorists) – the commonsense of the average Kiwi is constantly underestimated.
Maybe they could have a say about their souper city – get a say in the blueprints, plans, statements of intent and direction; in short; do the right thing?
Blind Freddy could organise a Democratic Referendum – you know, let the majority decide???…
Forgetting Democracy can get you unelected pretty darn convincingly in NZ hey?
Parata Nui? Why that could be a favourite pet Valis!
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To gain consensus one MUST have majority support, you simply cannot have consensus without it.
I laughed at your attempt to introduce a new meaning (or as you call it an “up to date” definition) for the word, no doubt that you have done so because the actual definition does not suit the Green’s version of consensus.
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Hilarious!….the destruction of the traditional “family” is at the very heart of “progressive” or “liberal” politics.
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I agree that the common good should be pursued, but how that common good is acheived and what that common good is are the problems here. First one must define the common good and then one must seek the most effective method of obtaining that common good, anything less than the best option being a detriment to the common good.
I aimagine that you view this acheivement of the common good as requiring a progressive taxation system and benefits for the poor, education, health, etc. I would agree on these matters, but the degree is something that must be investigated. I do not personally see much wrong with the present ‘economics’ as removing th profit motive removes devistates the workforce through which the social good may be obtained. A necacary part of pursuing the common good is recognising the ralities of human nature and working with that reality. In many areas benefits far exceed what is optimal, in many areas taxes are far too high, in some benefits are too low, and in some taxes are too low. But we must recognise human nature and the form of the present profit-driven system is prehaps the best system that could actually work in practice.
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and Might is Right, right?
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I certainly think so.
But as soon as that might is behind another opinion what was previously right may be wrong, so therefore while a simple 51% of the might may be all that is needed to make an action right even if the other 49% does not want that action forced apon then, it may not be the most prudent if the choice of actions does not ensure the continuation of might retention.
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I had afew, though that was not one of them.
I do see advantages to a single counsel, but I prefer the method proposed by the writter of the letter that was posted on this blog a wee-while ago. The apperance of democracy is, after all, one of the best ways of retaining such might.
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“I wondered what must be going through her mind as she readies herself to hand over the reins of power? ”
referring to ex co leader Jeanette,
Mount Albert fwog, its in Mount Albert, wheres your girl co leader fwog?
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2Bwoman&hl=en&usg=__YmAHuRAKopmGqOipuwcHBdliol0=&ei=KcUcSumaCpPWlQed1ejmCw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image
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Yet if 15% of the population want to force their views on the remaining 85% then as long as the Greens agree it is the very height of consensus politics.
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May 27th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
> Let me get this clear, if 51%, 60% or in the case of Wanganui 74% of the people want something that is not PC in the eyes of the Green party then that is not consensus.
indeed. Consensus means an agreement of everyone. Redefining the word ‘consensus’ to say that 51% support makes a consensus is just silly. You may as well redefine the word ‘elephant’ as a new name for the colour red.
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It means in each case 49,40,26% have not agreed and the process of convincing these substantial numbers of people to give it a go and concur makes leaders have to engage and listen to the issues involved.
Everyone is complaining about the amount of legislation we all now face in our lives, but maybe if we slowed down the decisions to get true consensus we might not have as many patch ups as the intention of the process would be better implemented.
This becomes a big issue with the sorts of decisions we have to make so appropriate decision making levels are recognised in Green process.
This would mean central government butting out of so many things they now get involved in, local government gets the power of veto as intended in England.
We get those requiring a standard puling their hair out at this point as they would lose control of the order they push others into maintaining for them.
The answer to this is in the way we set up the redistribution of excessive accumultaion – taxes? Henry George in a book Progress and Poverty in the early 1900s talks of land as being the basic resource of freedom and democracy, if you can feed yourself you don’t have to cowtell to others. Rates instead of income tax are shown to be a smarter way of doing this.
Central governent has to then justify its will to spend by getting local community government on side. Money has substituted for land as our basic commodity in the modern world, with cheap fuel allowing unsustainable growth of urban lifestyle. We are reaping this now worldwide but Henry George saw this and thus called his book Progress and Poverty.
The process of making a centrally taxed system or an Auckland supercity a fair and just and humanly uplifting process becomes bogged down and we haave power politics and corruption becoming a common process.
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the problem is that the present make up (of those who achieve the concensus) is so far to the left that new members wont want to get on board ((unless you want to join a “left-wing party” (versus a green party)).
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Something is wrong if we have a disparity between these needs and we have an extreme left and right not hearing each other. I suggest reading Henry Georges Progress and Poverty as he attempts to show that if we don’t hold the right to land and freedom together we lose it. Money and the huge retirement funds are putting us all at risk as they channel their unsustainable efforts into growth to survive. The land based real economy needs wisdom and resting to survive. I will put my money on the earth winning in this conflict
A solution that gives a greater community good, maybe even a future in the present situation, may require these huge super funds to lose, and all the investing around it, but the solutions of land based activity done fairly could give each family about 30 acres to survive on (an extreme model) but an economy based on Henry Georges thinking could move us as far in that direction as we need to to become sustainable again, with the publics goodwill and the respect of the individual. OOOOh Utopia
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..the greens are a major political force in new zealand….
..and ..as a majority party..
..they win an election…
.who becomes prime minister..?
the female co-leader..?
..or the male co-leader..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Green party PM?
That’s hilarious, you must be smoking some really strong stuff today.
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Bro – Green PM The whole party can’t be PM …..
or could we !!!!
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..you still haven’t answered sapients’ question..
..of how can you..as a self-avowed ‘disgusted at cruelty to animals’….
..how can you have as your political hero..
(former) pig concentration camp owner..
..roger douglas..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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i suffered through/watched the post-budget speeches..
..the tweedledee party said nothing new about the tweedledum parties budget..
..and norman was the only one who made any sense…
..the only one who demonstrated he was looking further ahead than the end of his own nose..
..(your man..the pig-torturer..was an exercise in bluster/’harrumph!’..
..and once again demonstrated how he is so much ‘yesterdays’ man’..
..whose riff is now so ‘out of time’/place..)
..the maori party tried..and failed..to put lipstick on a pig..
..(nothing for the poorest..many of whom are their constituents..)
..($32 million..!..for supporting the key/national govt..?
..but key does talk nicely to/’consults with’ them..eh..?..
..let’s hope that makes up for it..eh..?..)
the national party and the labour party are also very much ‘yesterdays’ men’..
…they have both bent the knee to the ‘free-marketeers’ for long..
..they don’t know how to do anything else..
..and the twin-terrors of economic/environmental meltdown are seemingly way beyond their ken..
..who else is there..?
..but the greens..?
..the continued inactions of labour/national will help ensure that ‘turning to the greens’..coming about..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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The man thinks that there is a magic money tree, he is quite happy to saddle our kids with a huge debt and no doubt he is happy to see those same kids continue to pay high tax so lazy bludgers like you can keep stealing from those who work for a living.
Comrade Norman has no idea Phool, it does not surprise me that you think alike.
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..concerns for/about animal welfare..(didya have bacon for breakfast..?..)
..aside from that..your politics are those of the pig-concentration camp owner..
..riffs that are so out of time/place..
..they just evince a ‘meh..!’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Roger Douglas – Prime Zimmerster!!!
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..maybe..while we are waiting..
..you ..bro..
..can answer the pig concentration camp owner question for us..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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I can imagine what it would be like if Sir Roger was once again in charge of the books, I remember what a great job he did last time and I know how much we need him right now.
Still, at least Sir Roger knows what it is like to produce a budget, the Greens will never have that experience.
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I would trust a sow-crater to take care of my books more than a animal libertarian any day.
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Plus there is the question of unwholesome residue from the Pigs – not just the Flu either….
Piggy Muldoon had the Books – when people realized his ’strong-man’ image had the odour of gin, his revenge was to leave one dollar in the Reserve Bank!
No we tried all things Porcine.
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10575235&ref=rss
From unorthodox political beginnings, Green MP Metiria Turei is on the verge of leading a political party. Tomorrow, the Greens decide whether Ms Turei or fellow MP Sue Bradford replaces Jeanette Fitzsimons as party co-leader. Ms Turei’s early political career in the 1990s saw her stand for the McGillicuddy Serious and the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Parties.
She admits back then she never envisaged being in the position she is now, a step away from leading the Greens. She says it is a huge privilege to be part of the Greens, let alone have the chance of being its co-leader
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To put it another way; I would rather trust with my books someone whom does not let their emotions run wild with my financial manners than someone whom lets their emotions run wild and overide whatever small practical ability they have. I would rather let someone who knows how to handle money manage my books than someone known to steal and vandalise things based on their own idiotic moral perceptions. I would rather trust with my financial matters someone who wasint likely to decide the money was better spent in donating to some stupid animal fund.
Id rather trust them to myself than eaither of those individuals, but meh.
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I see Comrade Bradford has moved into a big flash house in Auckland, I guess these are the rewards one receives when one is a member of the nomenklatura.
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Would you like to see Sue Bradford, barefoot, in the kitchen…
hang on !!! you would!!
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Two notes:
First: True, but the implied distinction is between an individual willing to compromise on animal elfare for profit and one not. Since the sow-crater matter is a moderate level in one dirrection i figured I would take a moderate level on the other such that they were comparable.
Second: While a foot fetish is apparently the most common sexual fetish, please never never give me a mental image of the implied situation again. It is prehaps one of the only things that could amke me nausious.
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Don’t swot that Fly; it’s minding the shop!
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He needed ‘burying’ as he’d bitten a human before. Were the keepers/zoo authorities neglegent in having humans in with the tigers, when it’s unnecessary? I suspect so.
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I would have kept him here ok – no, on second thought, one or two of the neighbours would’ve got the point!
Anyway – mankind is a vicious killer – get a tiger, lock it up for life, and tell it not to bite or else!
We are constantly telling birds not to fly, fish not to swim; all the while denying their sentience contains ancestral memory – why even a fly….
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It’s in very poor taste… but… some one asked what would have been going through the keeper’s head as he was being attacked…
along the lines of the policeman at the funeral of his colleague killed in Napier, who said ‘ today we toast you Len…’
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Fly …imhe ….one has enough time to think “FLlCK ! THE TIG…..!
Yep, probably the time given to the shooting victims in Napier – yes it’s unwholesome all right. Proof of a small ‘middle brain’ of the attacker, not that it helps….my cigarette packet says “Smoking May Kill Me!”. What it doesn’t say is “if it doesn’t, something else will”
One thinks of the quote
“To truly live, one must nearly die.”
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I think it would work best with large mammels, things that are profitable to sell for consumption. Ive never tasted rat so I have no idea what it is like, though I would consider it more of a pest than something we need to be preserved. Kiwi/kakapo/kea would be a problem under this approach, though i would think eels and most non-migratory aquatic animals would do good under this schemme. Whitebait maybe not so much considering the nature of thier life-cycle, certainly worth a go though, would be extreemly profitable if it could be worked.
Mark,
I think animals such as tigers and lions would be better worked for game shooting due to thair value as trophies and perceived value in medicine. One of the programes I mentioned was about an african game park/farm; interesting.
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Shooting things in general has a way of turning ugly – had my epiphany there in ‘94.
Guns are all very marvellous engineering – but I saw what they Do often enough – and that was the end of this “Good Keen Bloke”
Besides which we have a lot to learn from animals…..next time I’m down your way – we’ll do a bird-reading!
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Mark – I just came in from feeding my hens; the ducks turned up (they free-range on any slugs that might try to establish themselves in my garden) a fantail flitted in to catch any insects the ducks might stir-up while they fossicked around (I flicked them some grain) and several bell-birds dove and wove about us, stopping to feed on the remaining apples in the trees. Very sanctuary-like.
Will you expand on your epiphany?
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Yes, i quite like the structure of Bonobo society compared to that of the common chimpanzee whose society we presently more closely approximate. Though we seem to be adopting the more promiscuous side of bonobo culture, lol.
Cant stand guns; they make it too easy. Anyone can point and pull a trigger. Bang. no skill really needed. A sword, now thats a weapon that needs alittle skill atleast, one that puts you in harms way too. A honourable weapon. A bow is even better; much more skill required, though relativly less intrusion into harms way. If one wants to use a gun, atleast make it sporting, long distance, use a rifle, sniper even, M107, M110, M200; awesome.
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I was thinking globally, but it does have application in NZ, just not so much in terms of the profitability for land based-animals. Rats are a pest, the devistate the other species, but then again there is the potential profit that you mention. Though imagine the size of the advertising campeigns needed to deplete the stigma attached; would be rather prohibitive.
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Perhaps it comes down to one’s ability to go on destroying beautifull and unique things….watching them die….i felt like a Nazi eventually.
Then someone taught me to read the birds….what their behaviour means….then I started catering to the ozzie wildlife – pet snakes, possums, wallabies echidna’s – tons of birds and many other introduced ‘pets’ as well – I learned to read birds – can give you several anecdotes of messages that came to pass.
Is it a mystery that other life forms can percieve the ether before humans?
That we can in fact, tell the future from them?
Bloody Looney Leftie Greens – but that ain’t what Mother Nature says, and you’ll notice She doesn’t care much What We Think…?
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I’m all ears for your anecdotes.
Sapient – te kiore, the Pacific rat is a different beast from your rattus rattus/rattus norvegicus. Kiore are appealing, small, vegetarian, clean and sweet to eat, plus, they are taonga. Re. weapons, I know of a duck-hunter who uses a ‘black widow’ slingshot and glass marbles! How’s that for giving them a sporting chance! I can hear shotguns right now, out there on the estuary. Steel shot, no finesse.
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Blackbirds hunt in an extended family, their call changes when one of them finds dinner – but not too much – mynah birds are a pest….but yes – that is a sonar locater call (they don’t waste time).
Communication between members of a species is almost universal – most fascinating are whales which communicate in 3-d holographic imagery
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Mark – whales have been suffering appalling interference from shipping and sonar for decades. Their ‘world map’ has been badly scribbled-on. Wonder what they think of that?
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Imo the tsunami was caused by such a device being used too close to an undersea fault line.
It’s also a good device for snapping off ice, see current Maps of Greenland and the Poles…..irresponsible yep – but think of all the gelt! Besides I won’t tell if you don’t…
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I learned to read birds – can give you several anecdotes of messages that came to pass
listening to those would be a pleasant way to pass the evening. All is quite elsewhere….
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Simple; when the Black Cuckatoo’s start sqwuaking – there will be a significant rainstorm in exactly 18 hours (not much use in NZ) – they fight for the most sheltered pozzy on the tree I think.
The other stories can be a bit personal…ah; one day in the Whitsundays, the local Farmer found a white owl dead under the mandarin tree.
He wanted to know what it meant (why ask me?).
It transpired that the Local Council was voting that Day as to whether to concrete his wild bit of Paradise – I told him he’d lose the vote; his land….esoteric I know, but he did.
Practical? Well, I’m having a Coffee with friends in the Garden of a very fashionable Darlinghurst Restaurant….a bushbird(Mix)landed on the fence and wouldn’t take it’s eyes off me – gimme de goosebumps(no joke) – but in six hours a huge fire swept the National Park south of the city and wiped out over 2 million (estimated) wildlife. I knew there was something wrong – but at that time – couldn’t guess what.
Six Black Swans flying into the Sunset. By this time I was so startled by unusual bird life, I actually stopped and got out to watch – they looked for all the world like pall-bearers to me.
So I gets to town and phone Home. Little Brother is hysterical -
“Your Father had turned blue when the Ambulance arrived half an hour ago Mark; How did you know?”
I didn’t, but if I hadn’t noticed the swans (half an hour ago) I’d not have called home either…..go figure.
Oh there’s more – but I don’t live in a Forest anymore – have lost a lot of those sensibilities.
But science says all solids are vibrating molecules – it may be a case of tuning in – of course the World has no use or Value for the World.
I’d rather be out there though – you can trust animals (unless you invade their senses) – did the zookeeper turn his back? – impart a slight? That would do it, most like. Haven’t read the story – but will try to catch up to it.
Science has just taken the top off this phenomena recently – there are lots of dramatic discoveries being made about life all the while
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Surely the keepers of the big cats knew cat-sign and cat behaviour, knowing they would be in there with them?
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Cats can mask their intent rather well – unless you watch what their tails are doing – a certain sweep is an unfailing sign of imminent attack – but having said that I think it’d take a Brave person to fool round with them anyway – or assume they’re tame….certainly I’ve run across animals in the wild that get nothing but respect (and a prayer they’re not hungry) from me.
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