by Metiria Turei
Hone Harawira, in his regular column, Ae Marika talked about going to court with the two young men charged with assaulting John Key at Waitangi this year. Both Labour and the Maori Party co-leaders have responded badly, the first with too much hysteria to be taken seriously and the second in an attempt to distance themselves from one of thier own MPs. Hone says in his article:
John and Wikatana Popata ain’t angels – but then who is? But they do come from a whanau with a deep and abiding commitment to Kaupapa Maori. I have watched these boys grow to young men over the past ten years, and I’ve been impressed by the sincerity and the passion that they bring to the activities that they are involved in, for their marae, their hapu, their iwi, and for Maori people generally.
Sure, sometimes that passion spills over, and sometimes that leads to actions that society might frown upon, but with my record, who am I to criticise? I can recall with distinct clarity putting myself outside the norm and often outside the law to promote ideas and beliefs that we were passionate about when we were young (once upon a time!), and I don’t regret any of it – not for one second.
Labours Kelvin Davis responded in defence of the Prime Minister and with some high passion himself:
“His suggestion, reported in the media, that John Key should meet the pair is particularly farcical given what Hone has said. Does he expect John Key to tell them their actions were perfectly acceptable? What does Mr Key say to all this?”
Well actually, the process of restorative justice could be well be the most constructive response. Giving these young men, passionate about Treaty issues, the chance to talk with the Prime Minister about why their passions run so high and for John Key, the victim in this case, to set out how such violence affects him and his family. His wife and kids would have seen the footage on TV and it was frightening. This is what restorative justice was designed for – to move from hysterical cries for punishment to understanding and restored relationships between victim and offender. It works for much of the rest of the country; it could work here, if the victim wants to proceed that way.
Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples, responding as Maori Party co-leaders but strangely under the banner of the NZ Government, distanced themselves from Hone’s work with his own people, citing the separation of powers and due process:
But our party is also centred on the commitment to respecting due process to the law – it was, after all, the fundamental breach of that process around the foreshore and seabed shame, that motivated so many of us to speak up in the cause of justice. We are also mindful of the doctrine of the separation of powers – which instructs any politician against any actions which could be construed as interfering in the course of law” said Mrs Turia.
Maybe they received some advice from government to distance themselves from Hone but why take it? They owe National nothing. Hone has described the real life complexity of such actions in political circumstances. He is standing up for his community and there is no shame in that. His co-leaders should be standing up for him too.
Published in Justice & Democracy | Society & Culture by Metiria Turei on Tue, March 17th, 2009
Tags: assault, hone Harawira, john key, Kelvin Davis, labour, maori party, pita sharples, tariana turia
More posts by Metiria Turei | more about Metiria Turei
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
I deeply respect Hone Harawira. He’s as sincere, humble and genuine as they come. If I met him otherwise, I’d never pick him as a politician.
This is typical for him: working with the people affected even when others would judge it not to be in his interests.
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Go Hone!
But yeah I actually think this is a perfect case where restorative justice could do a fantastic job.
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Surely this post by Met is a wind up?
Even the Greens would not be as silly as to excuse another example of violent Maori behaviour because these two thugs are “passionate about treaty issues”
Why should key sit down with these two low life’s?, they attempted to assault the man.
Your suggestion that Key has a duty to listen to these thugs is laughable and highlights what a joke the concept of restorative justice is.
Frankly I am sick of the Greens making excuses for Maori violence, where is the comment from Met about yet another child killing at the hands of its family?
Having said that the lest surprising thing in all of this is the participation of that racist thug John Harawira, frankly the man is a joke and in the words of a former PM a “wrecker and hater”
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I guess the greens do promote violence if the cause is right.
But who decides if the cause is right? George Dubaya? Pol Pot? Britney Spears?
There really is nothing new under the sun, Just tired old ideas as ancient as the hills, wrapped up in a new wrapper, in this case a green wrapper
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Well said big bro! The BS excuces for Maori violence have to end….if these had been a couple of White boys ruffeling up Pita Shaples all hell would have broken loose in the PC Maori master race loving media.
Harawira is a thug….(and that could apply to any of that whanau)
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Meyt promoting violence? – can none of you read? No where in her post does she do this. Rather she calls it a crime and suggests a way of dealing with the perpetrators via restorative justice, noting that doing this would be up to the victim to decide. I personally don’t agree – the situation is too politically charged, but that’s another matter.
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I think Key would perceive a discussion as being the outcome that the two perpetrators (or one of the outcomes) wanted all along – they would effectively be rewarded for their behaviour. If I was Key I would take a great deal of satisfaction in merrily rebuffing their request.
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…Key thus being empowered, if you will.
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Hone needs to start behaving like a leader and stop behaving like an activist. Does he even know the difference?
Two thugs assaulted the PM and he is making a deliberate point of publicity supporting them. Takin’ it to da man eh. Truly pathetic, as is the greens support of him.
If Maori leaders expect to be treated with respect they should start showing respect for others. And insisting others do likewise.
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This discussion is a waste of lillypad space. Those guys are, at best downright rude, probably downright dangerous. It’s a matter for the police.
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>>via restorative justice
No.
They’ll have the same justice anyone would get if they assault someone else, and can thank their lucky stars that we’re more forgiving than most countries. They would quite likely been shot if they’d tried that in the UK.
They’re big boys not children. And now it’s time to face the consequences of their actions.
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No argument there. But facing the consequences of actions is exactly what restorative justice is about, as it includes facing the victims of crime. Again, not saying I agree in this case, but it is not a means of avoiding consequences; it can be a much more effective way in fact.
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Valis
Just how much pressure would you put on the VICTIMS of crime to have these meetings if you had the chance to implement the mind numbingly stupid restorative justice programme?
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“restorative justice”
In translation, it means a slap with a wet bus ticket. Get off lightly. Have a talk fest.
No. Violence is not acceptable. Justify this, and you’ll justify any violence just so long as the perpetrator feels passionate about it.
What they need to do is be men enough to admit to actions that were witnessed by the entire population on the TV news.
If that is deemed by a court to be assault, and to me that is a given, then they should be convicted and sentenced the same as anyone else.
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Actually, statistically speaking, they wont get the same justice as everyone else, say, if it was two white females who.. well.. brushed his coat.
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>>two white females
If two white females had assulted the PM, they’d get the same charge.
These guys did not “brush his coat”. And that’s his broken arm, too. See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eyzT_3rETE
Vicious thuggery.
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“In translation, it means a slap with a wet bus ticket. Get off lightly. Have a talk fest.”
Restorative justice is none of these things and further has been shown to reduce recidivism, which surely is a main goal of the justice system.
“No. Violence is not acceptable. Justify this, and you’ll justify any violence just so long as the perpetrator feels passionate about it.”
I’m not trying to justify these actions as I’ve clearly said. You revert to the straw man once again.
“What they need to do is be men enough to admit to actions that were witnessed by the entire population on the TV news.”
That would be great.
“If that is deemed by a court to be assault, and to me that is a given, then they should be convicted and sentenced the same as anyone else.”
No argument from me.
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>>Restorative justice is none of these things and further has been shown to reduce recidivism,
So they make amends with the victim? Fine. If I was the victim I’d request that “making amends” would mean serving some jail time.
Off you go boys….hope it proves “restorative”….
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Valis
“Restorative justice is none of these things and further has been shown to reduce recidivism, which surely is a main goal of the justice system”
And of course you have proof of this?
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Thats classic, the way you are trying to knock restorative justice simply reveals how little you know about it.
You may continue >
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Just can’t let the straw man go can you, BP. I’m not talking about these two blokes, if it weren’t clear enough above. And if you generalise that comment to apply regardless of the crime, then you’ve more interested in revenge than justice.
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Restorative justice is simply another term for being soft on criminals.
I often hear the claim made by the Greens that it works but as yet I have not seen any proof of this.
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Restorative justice is a red herring.
So, the way to get a private audience with the PM is to assault him? I can see every “passionate” half-wit activist in NZ lining up to do just that!
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“And of course you have proof of this?”
Not on me big bro, but I could find it. But given you have never provided any proof for me of your so many unfounded assertions despite uncountable requests, I can’t see why I should bother. You’d ignore it anyway as usual. Go do an Internet search if you’re really interested, which I doubt.
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“So, the way to get a private audience with the PM is to assault him? I can see every “passionate” half-wit activist in NZ lining up to do just that!”
You’re just being a dick now.
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So, Meteria, restorative justice may be constructive, but, in this case, isn’t that like assaulting the PM so you can get a meeting with him? I’ve met Key, but If I have a problem with his Govt, can I hit him too and then get some restorative justice type meeting to explain my grievance further? Why do you speak out and consider that those who assaulted the PM should not be charged for assault but at the same time don’t speak out when parents get investigated for smacking their kids?
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Now there’s a red herring.
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>>You’re just being a dick now.
That’s what restorative justice is. They’re proposing a meeting with John Key. It would benefit them a lot more than it does John Key and is hardly a deterrent, is it. Why would you want to reward people for committing (alleged) assault?
The fact you can’t think through your own stupid recommendations isn’t my problem.
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>>I have not seen any proof of this.
You haven’t done any reading about it (obviously) and yet you are comfortable making ardent criticisms of it?
If only there was proof, -like we see with the amazing turn-around our detainees make after their stay in our ‘correctional facilities’
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“The fact you can’t think through your own stupid recommendations isn’t my problem.”
And the fact that you can’t read isn’t mine. I made no such recommendation.
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Valis
Wow….I suspect you cannot provide the proof hence your emotional and abusive outburst.
I have provided proof on many occasions, when I do you ignore it.
It is a fairly simple request Valis, you claim that restorative justice works, you are the one making the claim and therefore you should be able to back that claim up.
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Lol, big bro pretends to be hurt. Of all the people that post here, you are the most known for all the things you accuse me of.
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So no one can be bothered going to the wikipedia site for ‘restorative justice’ – recidivism?
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Valis
How about you admit that restorative justice is nothing more than a theory?
I would have no issue with that as we could then debate the theory, however when you claim that restorative justice is proven then I will always take issue with you as it is nothing more than a lie.
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Restorative Justice… Lol.
I did a paper dedicated entirly to this concept, very interesting; but it has no place in determining the primary punishment.
The primary offence in this case is an offence against society due to the assault of another member of society; john key should have no say what-so-ever in the punishment for this action.
The secondary offence was against john key himself, so aswel as the punishment enforced by the judicial system JK has an entitlement to take them to court for reperation under tort law, he may choose to sit down and try and negotiate conditions acceptable to both and then have them inforced apon both parties by the court or he may choose to allow the courts to decide just reperations. This is the only place for restorative justice; unfortunatly our justice system is so intertwined that this becomes rather impractical.
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Fair enough. I should not have spoke of proof, but of evidence for it being an effective approach. Those are different things, I admit.
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Ok…where is the evidence?
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Here
http://www.voma.org/docs/connect3.pdf
and would you like evidence of the failure of the prison system too?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rsa-murders/news/article.cfm?c_id=618&objectid=10354648
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WHAT???
“I can recall with distinct clarity putting myself outside . . . . . the law to promote ideas and beliefs that we were passionate about when we were young (once upon a time!), and I don’t regret any of it – not for one second.”
So why bother being a Member of Parliament of you don’t believe in the rule of Law – the only thing that Parliament produces?
WHAT???
“restorative justice was designed . . . to move from hysterical cries for punishment to understanding and restored relationships between victim and offender”
Let’s not bother with punishment for anything then, we’ll just restore relationships that NEVER EXISTED!! The man who burgled my house, took family trinklets on value to no one but us, and threw them ‘in the river somewhere’ when he couldn’t sell them had NO relationship with me that could be restored. He was, and in my view always will be, nothing more than a THEIF, and deserved more than the 3 years he was sentenced to!
WHAT???
“Hone has described the real life complexity of such actions in political circumstances. He is standing up for his community and there is no shame in that. His co-leaders should be standing up for him too.”
This man, who advocates breaking the law, and has NO REGRETS about having done it himself, is not describing ‘real life complexity of . . . political circumstances’, he is condoning and excusing people assaulting others for their own purposes. If he is right, the Pakeha may beat Maori, physically, to a pulp and eradicate their drain on our society’s emotional health and physical welfare. When we have to ‘consult’ with Maori on any- and everything, while Maori leaders don’t have to consult with their Tribes on anything, politicisation of the gravy train has surely reached its terminus.
This man should not be allowed to be a member of parliament until he publicly denounces any and all breaches of the law as wrong – irrespective of circumstance!
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Strings
I guess you think John Key should be barred as well since he has made no effort to enforce the law when the NZpolice were outed for unjust spying on a political party(Greens), or is it only wrong if your at the other end of the spectrum?
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bio
Lol..you call that evidence?
If I offered proof (funded by Exxon) that climate change is a con you would not accept it so why the hell would you expect me to accept that rubbish.
You do not have any real evidence do you?
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PS
the statement
“restorative justice was designed . . . to move from hysterical cries for punishment to understanding and restored relationships between victim and offender”
is utter flimflam. It is first noted in Ancient Rome, where criminals were required to recompense the victims of their crime for their losses as well as suffering the punishment vested on them. The Greeks had lots of it. It was introduced into some schools in England in the 18th century. It precedes the abomination of New Zealand’s cup of tea and a chat to restore a non-existent relationship, as well as New Zealand itself as a cohesive state, by centuries.
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Bioneer
your comment “has made no effort to enforce the law when the NZ police were outed for unjust spying on a political party(Greens)” is surely a joke? Your use of the term “unjust” is the key (no pun intended) here methinks, as you do not dare to use the word ‘illegal’.
Mr. Key must, in my opinion, uphold the law, not the views of a single person, organisation or corporation as to what is ‘just’.
Do you have a real point?
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>Your use of the term “unjust” is the key (no pun intended) here methinks, as you do not dare to use the word ‘illegal’.
sorry I meant ILLEGAL, -I must have assumed people would be annoyed if I didnt mention that it was obviously unjust as well as illegal
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How is Green Party membership affected by this lurch to the looney.
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Bioneer
Can you identify the statute that makes it illegal, as I don’t seem to be able to recall one.
Thanks in anticipation
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John and Witikana clearly were undertaking political action of a physical nature. In terms of “assault’, John Key suffered no more than the average punter at the hands of police protecting the public interest at a crowd gathering – ruffled feathers. The brothers will have been aware of the consequences they would face, and have succeeded in their aim of maintaining focus on issues vital to them. Any court proceeding and subsequent outcome will serve their cause. Any offshoot public debate such as the one on restorative justice is an added bonus. You’ve really got to congratulate them for the effectiveness of their brief encounter with the Crown’s representative.
As for Hone’s support – he is honestly defending the pathway he took to gain his current political status, and supporting his family members on a similar course. He is being faithful to his original cause. MP’s occasionally undertake political action outside the law – I recall a rural National MP driving his tractor up the steps of Parliament in opposition to FART tax. Misguided, but honest and effective.
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“John and Witikana clearly were undertaking political action of a physical nature. In terms of “assault’, John Key suffered no more than the average punter at the hands of police protecting the public interest at a crowd gathering – ruffled feathers.”
Only because they were prevented from executing their intended assault by the diplomatic protection squad.
BTW aren’t the Greens opposed to violence as it seems that all the defence of the brothers is coming from the redgreens?
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Yes restorative justice allows the criminals to meet the victim, but the victim also needs to agree. In this case he does not want to meet them and I while I don’t have much sympathy for John Key’s politics, I don’t blame him in this case. If Key agreed to meet with them, it would also send out a signal that the way to get an audience with politicians is to thump them.
An animal rights group I belonged to made several attempts to get to see ministers through polite requests and were rebuffed each time, even while the animal abusers seemed to have continuous access. If these two get to see the Prime Minister and air their grievances, it will give me an excellent incentive to thump the minister of agriculture and then tell him what I think of him incarcerating animals in a living hell.
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New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act 1969
4AA (1)
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Says
Political neutrality of New Zealand Security Intelligence Service(1) The Director must take all reasonable steps to ensure that—
(a) The activities of the Security Intelligence Service are limited to those that are relevant to the discharge of its functions:
(b) The Security Intelligence Service is kept free from any influence or consideration that is not relevant to its functions:
(c) The Security Intelligence Service does not take any action for the purpose of furthering or harming the interests of any political party.
NOWHERE does this say that they may not monitor a political party. I am yet to be convinced of illegality.
To make the point clear, if a political party were to be formed in New Zealand to front up a terrorist separatist group (as has happened in Ireland with Sinn Fein for instance,) I would EXPECT the SIS to monitor their activities in an attempt to identify conduits between the party and the criminals. Wouldn’t you?
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Storm in a teacup. According to the media reports Key was “jostled”. If I jumped up and down and demanded arrests every time I’ve been pushed or jostled by somebody at a political event who didn’t like my views, I’d be a busy man. Key would have done us all a favour by asking the police to drop the charges and moved on to doing something useful.
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