Im a fan of the inquisitorial/continental/civil law systems rather than common law systems myself; the english just seem to screw everything up! The only thing they ever did that was half way decent was create the constitutional monarchy; and that wasint half way decent until we changed it to fit an MMP system, lol

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Sapient; Long as our society bases such things around an adversorial system, someone always seems to get a very raw deal – the written Law and it’s practice usually have a huge difference between intent and actuality.
That’s why when Out in Front says he has ‘faith’ I wince – too much resting on faith; not enough based around fairness..

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The bill certainly needs a select committee process, seemingly alot of bugs to work out.
I have an enquiry; If the place of residence is owned or rented fully by the person whom the order is placed upon, and the partner is a live-in partner of a duration less that one year, who has to evacuate the premises? The partner has no legal right to the place of residence and thus no right to reside there and force the accused out of the house.
Trevors point also has standing, I had a restraining order placed on me by my father for two years, during which time i was not allowed in my previous place of residence (not owned by him but by my grandparents) or to re-aquire my property in the house and yet it was fine for him to come through my place of work reguarly and otherwise breach the distance. Suffice to say, when i got back my property all the items of value were missing.

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“toad Says:
December 17th, 2008 at 3:26 pm

Johan, the grounds for arrest are reasonable cause to suspect an offence has occurred. This is not necessary for the issuing of a Police Order.”

Hang on Toad, the proposed section 124A(2)(a)(i) says the constable must have regard to (all) the considerations then provided, including whether he/she “considers it is likely that has used or is using domestic violence against person B”. This requires a domestic violence incident to have taken place – which in any case entitles the constable to arrest forthwith. I think that as this is a serious imposition on a presumably innocent (until proven otherwise) person’s right to access to his/her own house, a constable will have to meet all the requirements of section 124A(2) before the order may be issued – including an assessment that such offence has occured or is occuring.

My point is that on the current draft the constable is in a position to arrest as easily as he/she is able to issue the order. If the intention is to prevent the occurance of domestic violence this will not be achieved through the current draft that is being discussed. This, to my mind, is already sufficient reason to refer the matter to a select committee.

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Transport Forum has done New Zealand more economic damage in one day than all the Greenies in history.

Dunno, some of the activism has been prety costly…

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This seems reasonable provided it isn’t abused. If it is abused, there is very little here to allow for timely accountability or redress. “Victim” and “offender” are presumed without review or debate. I have faith that the police will do their best to implement this while I’m also mindful of how the usual preconceptions and prejudices may come into play..

For example, the police spied on environmental activists, but apparently did not spy on the Tranport Forum…..the latter being the group that earlier this year planned and executed the disruption of road transport in all major towns and cities earlier this year. The Transport Forum has done New Zealand more economic damage in one day than all the Greenies in history.

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Protection Orders are impossible to challenge.

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Consider a different scenario:
Defacto wife decides to leave defacto husband for someone else. She acquires some bruises, then complains defacto husband beats her up. Police issue a protection order so defacto husband has to leave for 5 days. Eventually he returns – to find everything gone (except the bills), no forwarding address. And he has done nothing wrong. He needs some way of challenging the protection order.

Trevor.

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On the spot protection orders have been around for several years. Ask a few families on the receiving end of false allegations and male suicide.

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Didn’t National pass the DV Act that states false allegations are accepted by the judiciary as long as the complainant is a woman!
Protection Orders are issued on the spot and have been for frigging years!
I should know! Justice is feminist ideology driven by a deceitful gender bias gravy train. Balance the scales before it’s too fucking late !!

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I don’t understand the urgency of all these Urgent bills. Are National ever going to employ the Select Committees to do anything? We pay them quite a bit.

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Mark,
Lol, well you misspelt my misspelling .
I think the government does have a duty to protect its citizens from each other and, in cases such as this, to create provisions to protect an individual from situations which are their own fault.
There is no way that partner battery could be altered in any way by christmas, so there is no need for it to be urgent; but if we dont put as much effort into fixing or halting the decline of the economy then i suspect the rates may go up substantially.
I agree that the court system can be abused and that there are many frivilous or vengeful cases brought before the courts, i think all we can really do is rely on the good sense of the judges and shoot whichever politicians try to interfare with the process.

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Sapient: Porpurtraitor! I love it!!!
I keep coming back to that word ‘alleged’ – and the further reason for an ‘innocent until proven guilty’ pretext.
The Damages start long before justice is delivered.
How long does one wait? Disenfranchisement gets close to the issue of ‘Duty Of Care’ of Government – a fairly basic principle of any civilized country.
Many times both Parties in these cases report an unsatisfactory result.
The Law may need to meet the people half way – the Legal Jargon has a way of straining our Laws to fine sand, where they should stand like a rock. Clearly outlined and unmoving.
It has estranged many from natural justice.
As a social worker I saw many cases of the Police being used as revenge for some personal grievance.
One guy was taken to Court for four years by his ex-wife.
Until the Duty Solicitor wouldn’t take part in another “railroad job” – that was certainly the most memorable pre-trial conversation I’ve heard.
The Economy is in need of urgent and sustained attention – if spying on the Greens is the biggest story then someone has lost the Priority List I reckon.
regards Mark.

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Toad,
The thing is that when a victim in a domestic dispute reports the crime to the police or in some way causes punishment to be incured by the perpurtraitor the response of the purportraitor when relased from any incarceration they may be given is usually to pursue the victim again and exact control or revenge, usually in a more severe manner than the abuse would have been in if the punishment had not taken place. The more severe the punishment the more it will anger the perp and the more damage they are likley to do.
An offender is unlikley to be stopped by a peice of paper when they are enraged, after all their inability to control the rage is, in many cases, likley the source of the problem.
It is sad, but there is really very little that can be done by the police to stop such occurances short of shooting the purp, permenant incarceration, or witness protection (which in NZ isint very plausable). The only way that it can really be battled by government it to encourage an ethic and associated social preasures against the practice or atempting to provide any potential future victim with the tools to recognise a potentially abusive relationship (normally starts with control and verbal aggresion) and the desire to leave (or establish their lack of submisiveness early on in) such a relationship before it is allowed to become violent.
A temporary restraining order would likley do next to nothing and serve only to further enrage the perp. If the goal is to provide safe time for the victim and children the best solution would probally be to give them the option of a stay in a well funded (would need to fund them first though) sanctuary or womens shealter (though there should be the option for men also).

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amuckart said: I may be a Green party member, and share that party’s stand against violence, but I certainly wouldn’t give this bill my support as it stands.

Okay, let’s get the emails rolling in to House Leader Gerry Brownlee and the Minister in Charge of the Bill Simon Power, asking for the Bill to be referred to Select Committee for submissions. It’s not too late to ask them to reconsider.

Although I do have to say that this Bill may justify urgency more than any other in the pre-Christmas rush – in order to mitigate against the usual alcohol-fueled Christmas spousal bashing season.

If it does go through under urgency, I think the Greens should approach it like they did the EFA – while it may not be perfect it’s better than doing nothing.

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16 – 3 now

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big bro
Ponting has been quoted as saying:
“There has been a lot said about their bowlers. As yet they are unproven in Australia.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10548467

As an ex south african I agree with you – yippee.

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Toad

Ockers are 14 for 2, Ponting out first ball…..Yippee

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I’m with Idiot/Savant on this one. This just doesn’t seem like the sort of thing that needs to be shoved through under urgency, and on first reading there are unresolved issues that deserve the attention of the Select Committee process.

I may be a Green party member, and share that party’s stand against violence, but I certainly wouldn’t give this bill my support as it stands.

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Johan, the grounds for arrest are reasonable cause to suspect an offence has occurred. This is not necessary for the issuing of a Police Order.

Sapient, why does your intuition suggest that?

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