by Russel Norman
I’ve only just realised, after enquiries with the Parliamentary Library, that even though the Nats made the bills being discussed under urgency available in printed form at about 11.35pm last night, they were not being made available in electronic form.
How on earth can the public engage in the discussion if they can’t get access to the bills. So we’ve scanned the bills and made them into PDFs. Here they are:
Sentencing (Offences against children) Amendment Bill
I think an electronic version of the ‘fire at will’ bill is available but I will post it here anyway.
Published in Justice & Democracy | Parliament by Russel Norman on Thu, December 11th, 2008
Tags: bail, bill, biofuel, Education, fire at will, Parliament, repeal, sentencing, urgency
More posts by Russel Norman | more about Russel Norman
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
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NZ Government NAT gave clear intention of the first bills to be introduced in the new Government .
Green people so far out were dreaming and did not notice.
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Russ.
I noticed you spending a lot of time on the PC while you were in the house today, it also happened to coincide with a number of posts appearing on this site under your name.
Given that I pay your wages I would have thought you have far better things to be doing with your time….even for a list MP.
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I always wondered what kind of person would spend their days watching Parliament TV…
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Looks like our Russ was shining some light on national’s secret and urgent legislative program. Thanks for that.
For the life of me I can’t see how that amendment to the Bail Act is urgent! Obviously just a nod and wink to the law & order brigade.
On a different subject, the Nats tax cuts are such a blatant handout to rich people it makes me want to vomit all over a tories brand new mercedes. NZ what have you done!
rant over, as you were
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big bro – a good boss changes the behaviour of his employees through constructive criticism in the form of praise for things done well. A worthless one rules by constant nagging
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@freddy-
I think you misunderstand how dire the economic situation is. The people getting tax cuts are in need of the extra money. As Mr English pointed out they have been getting neglected for a long time now. Why should the poor and those with families get assistance? They clearly chose to have such difficult lives.
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Even if the economic crisis did warrant ramming quickly-drafted bills through without select committee process, it would only warrant doing so for bills related to the crisis. While you could argue that the fire-at-will Bill is intended to address the crisis, (in the form of making it worse by lowering employee confidence) none of the other four will really help.
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@reddeath26
Just to paraphrase:
Do you understand how dire the economic situation is?
The people getting NOT tax cuts are in need of the extra money.
Why should the poor and those with families NOT get assistance?
The ones whom Mr English says have been neglected clearly chose to make things difficult for themselves, by getting locked into a too extravagant lifestyle.
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Hmm, good work Russ/Russ and Green flunkies. Handy.
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I see that the Ministry of Justice site which publishes advice to the Attorney General under s.7 of the NZ Bill of Rights Act is struggling to keep up to date.
http://www.courts.govt.nz/bill-of-rights/index.html
Has the new AG made any reports of inconsistencies with the Bill of Rights Act on the introduction of these bills? for example, I would have thought that the Fire At Will bill would undermine the right to be protected from unlawful discrimination under s.19 BORA and under the Human Rights Act.
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And how does the new Bail bill affect the right not to be arbitrarily detained under s.22 of the Bill of Rights Act?
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@bingo-
Your name is quite fitting (^_-). Although that is assuming you noticed my attempt at satire.
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From what I’ve heard, it actually doesn’t do anything at all, because an earlier judgement still means the law will be interpreted exactly the same way. They’re just de-clarifying it and hoping that will give people the impression they’re tough on crime.
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From what I’ve heard, it actually doesn’t do anything at all, because an earlier judgement still means the law will be interpreted exactly the same way.
Classic! And no doubt that decision will be referred to in the legal advice to the Attorney General. I hope the media make something of it!!
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Sorry, the first para of my last post should have cross-referenced back to Ari.
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100 day plan. The public have already voted for this, so no grandstanding from snappy little poodle parties necessary
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THOSE NASTY BLOODY NATS!!
Anyone would think they had learned nothing from the procedure perfect Labour-led government and it’s master of house procedure The Hon Michael Cullen. Here, for those who aren’t students of Dr. Cullen, is one of his lessons
>>
Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill
First Reading
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance): I move, That the Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill be now read a first time.
Dr Richard Worth: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. Would it not be appropriate for us to see this bill?
Madam SPEAKER: That is not a point of order. [Interruption] The bill is on the Table.
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN: Speaking to the point of order, I say that a copy of this bill was made available to National Party members this morning before their caucus.
Gerry Brownlee: The bill was delivered to us halfway through our caucus this morning. One copy was given to me, and another copy was given to Dr Brash. There are only two copies on this side of the Table, and they were brought into the House just as Dr Cullen was about to speak. This debate should not progress until there are sufficient copies on the Table for every member to have an opportunity to read it.
Madam SPEAKER: I understand that copies of the bill are available for members on the Table.
Gerry Brownlee: I seek leave for the House to adjourn for 20 minutes while the bill is distributed.
Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes, there is. [Interruption] Members, please, we will preserve a little bit of respect and decorum.
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN: Of course, when bills are moved for introduction and passing under urgency, they are tabled subsequent to the motion being approved.
>>
Hansard – hat tip to the provider!
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United Future explicitly stated as part of their education policy that they were opposed to increased use of standardized tests in primary schools.
It will be interesting to see if that election promise is worth a sparrow’s fart.
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Yes, Dave S, Labour played these undemocratic little games on occasion too when they were in Government.
This is a very poor way to legislate. Sue Bradford has already picked up that the Fire at Will Bill will result in some people who are sacked also then being wrongly stood down from the dole for 13 weeks and having no effective means of challenging the stand-down. Labour Minister Kate Wilkinson says that is not Government’s intention, but there is nothing in the Bill to prevent it.
Who know’s how many other gremlins are hiding in this and the rest of these Bills that haven’t been noticed yet.
Rushed legislation not subject to Select Committee or even proper Opposition scrutiny has unexpected and unfortunate consequences.
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Toad
How many un-costed policies did the Green Party campaign on, and which of them would be getting rushed through now if you led a minority government?
One I’m sure of would be the increase in minimum wage, at a time when employment is already threatened by crisis you would be adding cost to loss making businesses by now.
Or do you think not?
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Toad.
As for
>
Who know’s how many other gremlins are hiding in this and the rest of these Bills that haven’t been noticed yet
>
All I have to say to you about that is “Election Finance Act”
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Dave S,
And how many National polices had funding figures attached to them? Vague mutterings like “1.5 billion for broadband” don’t really count as detailed costings either. You’d think the best funded party in Parliament could do better than the Greens surely?
And the other thing is, you’re assuming that the Greens will act as undemocratically as National (and Labour) by rushing legislation through needlessly under urgency. Maybe we would, but until we do, give us the benefit of the doubt, and realise that your assumption is unfounded.
Cheers,
Tane.
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Some are claiming that the reason these bills require little scrutiny is because it’s been obvious that these are what National will pass and so everyone knows all about them.
I’d point out that the Education and Sentencing Bills both contain statements saying that the govt has does not know what they’ll cost to implement. Impact assessment: no idea.
That’s what happens when you shove stuff in quickly without thinking it through.
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Dave S – the answer would be none. The Greens opposed urgency to ram Bills through without proper consultation when Labour was in Government too.
As for the minimum wage, it is (and always has been) set by Order in Council. The Greens’ policy is to change the legislation to provide in statute a formula that would not permit it to fall below 66% of the average wage – but if we had the opportunity to introduce that legislation it would certainly be referred to Select Committee for public submissions.
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“Labour played these undemocratic little games on occasion too when they were in Government.”
They certainly did in the 80s. But not really this century. They used urgency when they needed to get stuff done urgently (or thought they did), due to events (or stuff-ups on their part) which required quick responses.
There’s no reason to do this stuff urgently. Legislate in haste, repent in leisure as the loop-holes and little inconsistencies come back to bit you. We have processes for select committees and public submissions and debate to iron out issues in bills for good reason.
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I should point out that uncosted policies are actually relatively normal in parties campaigning from opposition or the cross-benches, and are in no means the same as policies that are not properly drafted before the campaign or even before they’re added to the order paper. As for being rushed through- I think it would take quite an emergency for a hypothetical Green-led government to put policy through under urgency without sending it to a select committee.
As for National’s urgency? They’re pushing through their “probationary period” bill under urgency, without a select committee, even though it doesn’t take effect until April 2009. Go ahead and try to justify that. I dare you
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Ari,
In Michael Cullens famous words,
“We won, you lost, eat that.”
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“We won, you lost, eat that.”
It was juvenile rubbish then, and it’s still juvenile rubbish now.
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you’re assuming that the Greens will act as undemocratically as National (and Labour) by rushing legislation through needlessly
No assuming about it.
We saw the EFA.
It was, and still is, a disgrace.
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StephenR
Yes, totally juvenile, then and now.
But it feels so good to use it.
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Which is a terrible philosophy to govern by and is likely to see National consigned to a single term. Have fun with it then, I look forward to seeing all their policies reversed under the proper select committee process.
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Ari
A little more than my friends above – for the sake of debate vs. Labour Party rhetorik.
A campaign promise is a campaign promise. They said they would do it and are keeping their word in a way that leaves small business employers able to look at their business prospects for the next year or so and see if they can take a risk on employing an extra employee. If they can, and start looking at the beginning of February when the Kiwi world gets back to normal (well, after the 7s anyway,) they should be in good shape to take on a new employee, with a properly written and legal advice reviewed employment contract, by the start of April.
Seems logical to me.
As for ” policies are actually relatively normal in parties campaigning from opposition ” seems to me that is a newish ‘norm’ that suits where it fits. No sensible family decides to buy something without having an idea of what it’s probably going to cost, but you seem to think it is OK to ask for votes on the basis of ‘we’ll tell you what it will cost you later – it’s only taxes after all’. Somehow I doubt that you will ever get onto the treasury benches with that kind of appeal.
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>>likely to see National consigned to a single term
Dream on. They’ll be there for an easy six, and quite possibly nine.
I predict the Greens will be out next election as the protest Labour vote, that put you over 5%, returns to Labour.
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Thanks very much for the link to the Biofuel Repeal Bill (I’ve just linked to it!). I’ve been trying so hard to stay positive, but today’s news really has been the last straw. There’s also a ridiculous climate change skeptic article given huge prominence in today’s NBR. Feels a bit like we’re running backwards…
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good work publicizing the bills. at least some of our reps are working for the public
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I have just scanned the education bill. Is there anything objectionable in this? I have my doubts about how effective increasing fines for truancy will be, but don’t have any fundamental objections to this.
What is wrong with national standards? The other day I tried to find literacy statistics for New Zealand, and had real difficulty finding any data, but found plenty of data from other countries. I’m guessing the lack of data is simply because the statistics are not collected (although I also cynically entertained the notion that New Zealand does not want its literacy rates compared to some of its Pacific Island neighbours, because they might not look too good). Have I missed something in the detail of this bill?
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“The other day I tried to find literacy statistics for New Zealand,”
If you mean the literacy rate, it’s really a piece of cake to find. What do you mean exactly?
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What on earth is wrong is wrong with the right of a business to fire at will, it comes hand in hand with the right of a business to hire at will. Its called economic freedom. In a civil society there is no such thing as a right to take all the gains without any of the losses.
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I’m still trying to get my head around some of National’s plans.
They aren’t sure about AGW or the ETS so they are calling for discussions about them.
However before these discussions result in any conclusions they decide to scrap the gas/coal thermal power station morratorium and the Biofuels Sales Obligation. So they are guessing what the discussions will produce, or have they already decided what the discussions will produce?
Trevor.
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StephenR,
I meant the literacy rate. My search was not comprehensive. Here are the statistics for NZ which UNESCO has:
http://stats.uis.unesco.org/unesco/TableViewer/document.aspx?ReportId=121&IF_Language=eng&BR_Country=5540
Notice how the literacy rate is not mentioned. In contrast, I can find the literacy rate for many other neighbouring countries easily (for example in Tonga, the literacy rate is 99.2% for adults 15+ and 99.6% for youths 15-24). Where can I find comparable statistics for NZ?
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Hmm, that link doesn’t work when it’s copy-pasted. When I went to look at the table which showed literacy rates there:
http://stats.uis.unesco.org/unesco/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=210
…they didn’t have NZ, or for that matter anything for Oz, South Korea or Japan either. Try Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate#endnote_d1
Or the CIA world factbook. They both say 99%
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Dave- the Green Party tries to account where the money will come and go, but we simply don’t have the resources to both do that and run a successful campaign. If every Party could call on the treasury for costings like the incumbent government could, then there would be no issue. Perhaps our democracy would be a better place if we spent some state money on forcing opposition parties to work off the books. I’d love for every Party in Parliament to have a shot at producing policies that go through the same rigorous analysis as government bills.
What I wanted justified is why a law that is not being implemented until April needs to skip the select committee process, which usually only takes a couple of weeks or a month. There was not a hint from National that they would rush every one of their campaign promises through under urgency and ignore the usual feedback processes that weed out mistakes from laws. I accept that they were elected to follow a different agenda than the one we’ve had for the last nine years, but that does not mean they get the right to ignore the checks and balances on Parliament’s legislative and executive powers- in fact, many of the slogans they campaigned on, such as Labour growing arrogant and out of touch, suggested National would be more consultative and careful in its approach than Labour. What we are getting is a much more arrogant and out of touch government that thinks it can ignore its own campaign slogans, and we have a right to hold it accountable.
Businesses should have the right to fire for any reason relating to performance, productivity, their ability to work co-operatively or simply their ability to keep on a certain amount of staff, I agree. But what they do not have the right to do is fire people because they don’t like their accent, their skin colour, their gender, their family plans, or their socio-economic background. Everyone has a right to fair go at employment, and when businesses can fire people without any right for the employees to say “Hey, I think I was dismissed unfairly”, and have someone make an independent finding with the power to reinstate them.
It’s that last step that National is removing for the first 90 days. You can still decide you want to file a grievance claim for racism or sexual harassment, but all possibility of redress is gone.
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StephenR,
If you read the wikipedia article, you’ll see the value for NZ was an assumption, because statistics were not available. I guess the literacy rate in NZ will be high, but maybe it would be worthwhile for someone to measure it? Maybe this will happen as the result of national standards?
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Aha, yeah I get you samiuela. Something just clicked for me – how do you measure the literacy rates for the *entire* population aged 15+ ? Would like to know how Tonga did it! Like they said, the only real option is to make an assumption…
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