by Russel Norman
Sitting in the House. Gerry Brownlee has just told the House that he has the bills that are to be debated under urgency but he won’t table them.
What this means is that MPs are going to have to vote and debate bills they will not see until it is tabled. This gives the first opposition speaker ten minutes to read the bill before they have to speak on it. And as the Greens are the fifth speaker, it gives us 50 minutes from getting the bill to speaking on it.
Then there is no select committee process for the public to make submissions on the bills.
This is not a democratic way to make law and it is not a way to get good law.
UPDATE – Gerry made the bills available just before the House rose at midnight. So we’ll have a few more hours to read them before we debate them.
Published in Justice & Democracy | Parliament by Russel Norman on Wed, December 10th, 2008
Tags: bail, bill, Education, fire at will, Parliament, repeal, Russel Norman, sentencing, urgency
More posts by Russel Norman | more about Russel Norman
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Remind me again of the Green position on (extreme?) urgency for all stages of the the Electoral (Vacancies) Amendment Bill in the 47th Parliament.
And their position on urgency for all stages of the the Appropriation (Parliamentary Expenditure Validation) Bill in the last Parliament.
Were the changes to Kiwisaver about total remuneration packages that the Greens helped the Government add into an unrelated bill about infant feeding – bypassing not only select committee scrutiny but the entire first and second readings – a “democratic way to make law” or a way “to get good law”?
Business NZ and the EMA was quite adamant that it wanted to submit to a select committee that such arrangements should be allowed (they had, after all, been specifically legislated for less than two years earlier – supported by both Labour and the Greens), what were your reasons for opposing select committee scrutiny on that occasion? When the Greens had recently changed their minds on the issue?
The procedure is poor. And you have every right to complain. But I trust you’ll forgive those who are less that impressed with *this* complaint from you.
[the one about not having copies of the bills is better made - although I'll note that National didn't have copies of those Kiwisaver changes until the committee of the whole!]
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Perhaps you would have had sympathy if your position on democratic procedures wasn’t so dependent on which side of the fence you are on. Perhaps you could have complained about the EFA and Edge’s examples at teh time.
It’s a pity you didn’t. So you are complaining now – tough.
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The EFA wasn’t passed under urgency, it went through the select committee process, which of course was how the numerous problems with the bill were first exposed.
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Good on your Russel for keeping us posted! And many thanks for being there.
Edge may be able to find a couple of instances of the previous government legislating with undue haste, but I’m sure that never before has there been such a huge raft of legislation going through in this way.
What is the hurry?
Don’t they have three years ahead of them, with National plus Act having an absolute majority? Why are they so terrified of allowing Bills to go to Select Committee, where they might be told of flaws in their proposals – even though their is nothing to stop them passing whatever they want anyway? Do they intend abolish the Select Committees?
John K Grinch is stealing Christmas for all of us.
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Russel you have some cheek to moan about democracy, the Greens had no respect for Democracy in the last Parliament so it is a bit rich for you to bang on about it now.
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The EFA wasn’t passed under urgency, it went through the select committee process
And then had lots of amendments that the public did not have a say on.
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I can’t help agreeing with the mob this time. I would like some historic press releases to disprove the Green Partys lack of a strong stance against undemocratic decision making in the last labour government….
Also in National and ACT have an absolute majority and are going to pass legislation regardless why delay it, especially if it reflects the policy they recieved a mandate from the people to implement. Its like unpacking your house, far easier to do all at once, otherwise boxes lie around for ages.
What we should and hopefully will be debating is whether in substance that is the case.
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No, the low for democracy was hit during the EFA when the EFA was rushed through, and didn’t go back to public for submissions. You have no moral high ground on democratic process after that shameful debacle.
Anyway, according to the NZherald, they are following parliaments rules:
“More pertinently, when it comes to advance copies, National says its hands are tied by Parliament’s arcane rules which do not allow the Government at this stage to “publish” bills before they are formally introduced into the House. Moreover, National says Labour is well aware of this.”
Those rules should certainly be changed. Which begs the question – why didn’t LabourGreens do it sometime during the last nine years?
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What a nerve. After the Greens support for the EFA I really dont think you can comment on “democracy” at all.
pot.kettle.black
And yes, we didnt see or hear you complaining about Labour doing this for the last NINE years. Your hypocracy is staggering.
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tough rules fwwog,
watch New Zealand grow under this new NZ
Gvernment Nat,
nobody woill ever want to go back to that socialist crap Labour Helengrand fwwog,
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It is disgraceful that law should be so disrespected as to be rushed through in this manner.
It is exactly this sort of poor behaviour that should be trumpeted in election year.
No limits on advertising and information (even propaganda) in election year I say!! (or any year…)
Less than 3 years to go till the next election. We are watching.
Don’t be a single-termer JK.
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Actually this process is more democratic than the method the Reform government used to slip the petrol tax into the law books. They didn’t even bother with putting a Bill before Parliament. Instead they simply placed a resolution before the House Ways and Means Committee to amend the Customs Act to add a clause creating a motor spirits excise duty. A fortnight later they rushed a Bill through granting exemptions to motorspirits used on farms and boats.
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Maybe we should have a convention that says all specific undertakings in the election campaign of the winning party must be enacted into law within 100 days of the new Parliament being sworn in. Then we would have s battle of well thought out policies and could have two year plus election campaigns!!!
Great stuff, would make honest people out of a lot of politicians!
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Okay, I’m going to link dump for those of you requesting historic press releases on things we’ve found anti-democratic about Labour. I’ll ignore claims of “greenwash” to trim the list down.
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/15515 – Government suppreses chapter 13 of environment report.
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/15162 – Greens negotiate expanded select committee for EFB.
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/14570, http://www.greens.org.nz/node/15035, http://www.greens.org.nz/node/15071 – Greens endorse a voluntary Code of Conduct signed by all the minor parties, aimed at making Parliament a less immature place.
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/14974 – Greens criticise the removal of an accredited journalist from Parliament to placate the Chinese deputy premier.
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/14727 – Calling for direct consultation with the public on Dioxin
http://www.greens.org.nz/node/14553 – Jeanette criticises the handling of the Taito Phillip Field controversy.
If you’d like, I can go farther back than 2006
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Just a note- I’ve posted a list of examples, but it’s probably stuck in moderation due to being very link-heavy.
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Russ –
I’ve been offline for a couple of days, so slow corner – I saw Meyt yesterday, briefly, on the lawn at dinner time, and said this to her, as well –
I take it all back, I officially don’t envy you your job any more.
It is insanity to behave this way, the Nat’s are making it all the more obvious that they have no regard for the due process of law, whether in the House or in the Courts. Never mind any regard for the populace of this country, especially the 65% who didn’t vote for them.
I shudder to think what the outcomes in normal daily life will be, after these first few days of bullying behaviour by the new administration.
Hang in there, Green MP’s, this horrible week will be over by midnite – frog, please pass this on!
Let’s not worry about what next week will bring, make the most of your day to put some ‘life’ into the work/life balance sheet!
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