by frog
Fairfax Nielson has the Greens up to 8 percent, the Herald Digipoll up to 5.8 percent, TVNZ up to 9 percent, and TV3 also up to 9 percent. Improvements in four out of four ain’t bad. I don’t know if Roy Morgan is also coming out today. I assume so. It’s last result was 11.5 percent, giving us a much improved rolling average on several months ago. It now looks like the Greens are credibly positioned to be (for the first time) the third biggest party in Parliament.
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Woohoo!
Colour me green & paint a big smile on my dial!
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Me too! All 4 poles have the Nat’s winning!
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.. not until they’ve found enough firm coalition partners, they haven’t …
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Andrew W,
Unless you’re in the top 20% of income earners you won’t be smiling for long. And even then, it’s really only the top 5% that’ll make much out of Key and co.
Otherwise, you can look forward to that wee tax cut of yours evaporating into medical bills, private accident insurance, school fees, road tolls……..
If you are one of the top income earners, then I can understand your enthusiasm. If not, you’re like a lamb pushing in line at the freezing works.
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Tane, you’re being shallow, there’s a bit more to it all than tax cuts.
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Andrew,
Yeah there is, like medical bills, private accident insurance, school fees, road tolls…… I also forgot to mention you lose your right to stop your neighbour blocking out your sun and privacy by building a 3 storey townhouse on the boundry.
But don’t worry, Mr Key’s nice smile will ease the pain I’m sure.
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by the way, Tane used to be a National supporter. Shows there’s hope for everyone, eh?
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Tane, I get to pay medical bills and school fees already, urban planning has more to do with local government, the health industry needs to be more efficient.
You obviously like a government prepared to take the initiative to run your life for you, I don’t.
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I’m hoping the Greens crack double digits. But I’m still voting National.
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Hoping will take you a log way in life, AndrewE. I hope you have bought your lotto tickets for this weekend – at least that is one tax that is unlikely to be cut in the near future…
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log… long… maybe I have picked up a cold this morning
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Andrew W,
I’d rather pay $10 in tax than $20 dollars in private health insurance, road tolls, increased user charges and all the other costs we picked up in the ’90s. Look at National’s front bench and tell me it’s not the same as it was back then, and that their real policy agenda isn’t the same as it was under Bolger.
National uses the ‘Gliding On’ meme to perpetuate the myth that public agencies are inherently inefficient; how else can they justify the razor gang they plan to implement? But National can’t even identify this mountain of waste; they closed their own ‘Waste-O-Meter’ down because they came up with peanuts (an embassy in Sweden I think). Most of their ‘savings’ are going to come from KiwiSaver and the R&D fund. To hell with tomorrow, let’s party hard on $20 a week extra (don’t read the fine print).
Finally, right now we don’t have a government running our lives, regardless of National propaganda. But some things are better done in bulk, and publicly funded. Infrastructure, health and education are just some of these.
Vote National if you want, it’s your choice. Just don’t complain when they take more than they give (unless you’re a top 5% income earner in which case you’ll be sweet as).
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It appears that the Bill and Ben party are still under the 5% threshold…
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Naitonal’s policies appear to be the opposite of what we need.
We need more savings -> They cut Kiwisaver
We need to invest in infrastructure -> They cut taxes.
We need to be running surpluses -> They cut taxes.
Sure, Labour cut taxes too, but only after the pressure became irresistible thanks to National’s media allies relentlessly pushing the issue despite 2 years of polls showing strong public resistance to tax cuts.
Labour’s policies were prudent….and National is the party that did not for a moment consider there might be a downturn.
National wants PPPs despite a clear track record overseas of loss of service, reduced transparency and corrupt crony capitalism allied with electoral laws allowing those awarding contracts to see who donated to whom politically.
There are many more such reasons why Labour is to be preferred to national….and Greens to be preferred to either of them.
Last and most important to me, National is also the party that swallowed whole Bush’s lies about Iraq. From English’s comments on that tape, they still see no deception there – despite the complete lack of any WMD or even circumstantial evidence of WMD in Iraq.
Worse, National (Mapp and Power, in particular – both front-benchers today) criticised Labour for losing NZ any chance of a free trade agreement with the US by not joining in the War Based on Lies.
National would have whored the lives of Kiwis for better trade arrangements.
I can never vote for a party THAT screwed up.
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Am I mistaken, or does everyone that has posted here want us to carry on haemorrhagging people to Australia? They have been giving tax cuts for the last nine years, while we haven’t and as a result, they pay lower taxes than we do unless you earn over $200,000. Of course, that does encourage people to move there.
Fact of the matter is that we need tax cuts to keep up, and to enable our economy to carry on growing. Of course, the Greens do not give a toss about the economy and would rather we become a Third World nation, especially as Third World nations have low carbon footprints.
Finally, while you guys are up in the polls, let us not forget that the Greens always poll high before the election, and the numbers do not come on the day.
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The Greens are the only party with policies to seriously tackle the major risks that face our planet and our children.
We’ll be celebrating being the third largest party in parliament, and pushing to clean up parliament and government. We have a lot of hard work ahead, but we’re on the path to being the most popular political party in New Zealand. We’ll also be helping other parties to take on green ideas and ideals, and our call for cleaner politics will gain increasing traction.
I look forward to it.
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Talk repeating the media’s spoonfeeding…
Will veeryone please note:
1/ Australia is not necessarily the greener pasture it is made out to be (did anyone actually read the recent Metro article), and 2/ the numbers emigrating have been fairly consistent for years, and while the absolute numbers may be going up, you have to remember (and the media needs pounding into their heads) is that the population of NZ has risen massively since the 1980s peak emigration numbers under Muldoon then Lange.
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John-ston,
It’s blindingly obvious to everyone apart from National supporters that people aren’t going to Australia for the lower taxes (which don’t exist there anyway).
It’s for higher wages. You know, the money you actually get paid by employers?
The thing that National reduced for 80% of income earners back in the 90s? The thing that Labour hasn’t restored fast enough?
Given National’s rhetoric around compliance costs, the minimum wage and how “…I’d like to see wages drop.”, then the flight to Australia will only increase under a National lead government, as the wage gap increases. Government of the people, by the rich, for the rich.
Like I keep on saying, good if you’re already in that top 5%, not bad for the next 15%, pretty crappy for everyone else.
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fwwog the back benches are the back benches,
you had your chance
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Thanks Tane… that is exactly what needed saying.
BJ
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Tane, do you think that just bumping up wages, presumably through legislation and stronger unions, will result in richer NZer’s, and a higher GDP?
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Tane’s right, low wages are the problem, or more accurately, the symptom. What is less well understood is why New Zealand is a low wage country, and that reason is we are chock full of low value-add businesses.
Until we get a business community that can operate businesses that add significantly more value than today then we’re stuck. Theres nothing any government can do to fix this fundamental problem.
This is related to the oft-quoted productivity issue. We need more productivity, more GDP per employee. The common fallacy is that within the existing businesses if we could only (and this is where you get to insert a phrase, like “lower compliance costs”, or “pay lower wages”) then that would improve productivity. And it might, but only by a smidgen; we need the resources redirected to better businesses with greater value add. Fiddling around the margins just wont cut it.
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“we are chock full of low value-add businesses.”
So what are these high value-add businesses we’re lacking?
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“It’s blindingly obvious to everyone apart from National supporters that people aren’t going to Australia for the lower taxes (which don’t exist there anyway).
It’s for higher wages. You know, the money you actually get paid by employers?”
Yes, higher wages is an attractive option, but then remember that it is also higher after-tax wages. Consider that an Australian on $50,000 only pays $9,000 tax, while a New Zealander on $50,000 would pay $10,510 in tax, that would be enough to tip the balance in Australia’s favour. I am willing to bet that if we matched Australia’s tax rate, it would probably be enough to stop the exodus and probably start reversing it, even if wages remained the same.
Of course, the way to get higher wages is to get a growing economy. How do we get a growing economy? Look to Ireland for your answer.
“Australia is not necessarily the greener pasture it is made out to be (did anyone actually read the recent Metro article)”
Jingyang, I have been to Brisbane on holiday three times, and I have found that it is an attractive option. Indeed, in spite of the Green Party’s seeming hatred of Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen, he did a lot of good for Queensland; he started the process that helped turn Queensland into an attractive state, and let us not forget that he also was behind Brisbane’s rail electrification.
Certainly parts of Australia are not that attractive; however, most people are moving to the Sunshine State and I can see why. We need someone who would be able to make New Zealand an attractive place to live, and while Key may not exactly be that person, he is the best option we have at the present.
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Tane, I’d rather have National’s road tolls than the one’s Labour has given us. Even with the help of record high fuel prices they still aren’t anywhere near the target of 300 in 2010. A target that assumed cheap fuel and 50% traffic growth over the decade. Decieptful power crazed egos run amok.
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john-ston Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
> Of course, the way to get higher wages is to get a growing economy. How do we get a growing economy? Look to Ireland for your answer.
Yeah, we could do what Ireland did. Join the EU, and get massive agricultural and other subisidies transferred from Brussels, providing an inflow of money into our economy and enabling us to cut taxes without cutting government services, and then make use of our proximity to the UK and our open access to other EU markets to attract multinational corporations. sounds like a perfect solution to me.
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john-ston,
Your figures are correct, if you look at income tax only. Throw in Medicare and state taxes and you’ll find the tax takes between Oz and NZ pretty much the same.
Kiwis are going to Oz for higher wages. That whole ‘after-tax income’ is a load of cobblers spun to you by the National Party so they don’t have to mention the ‘W’ word.
‘Bumping up wages’ will also help improve our productivity figures. Why? Because when wages are low it’s cheaper and easier to hire new (low-waged) workers than make capital investments that raise productivity. When workers are expensive, then it’s cheaper to invest in their tools and equipment, thereby raising productivity. Seems simple, yet National deliberately disregards this. My prediction is for productivity to slump under any National government, as it did in the 90s.
National. The change you don’t need (unless you’re already rich)
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Kahikatea, you made an absolutely idiotic statement there. We should do what Ireland did, and that is cut the corporate tax rate down to 10% (they later increased it to 12.5%, but that is still low). As a result, their economy went through the roof – virtually every economist agrees that the cut in taxes resulted in the huge rate of economic growth.
“Your figures are correct, if you look at income tax only. Throw in Medicare and state taxes and you’ll find the tax takes between Oz and NZ pretty much the same.
Kiwis are going to Oz for higher wages. That whole ‘after-tax income’ is a load of cobblers spun to you by the National Party so they don’t have to mention the ‘W’ word.”
Throw in ACC in New Zealand, and the other taxes, and New Zealand still has higher tax rates. We still pay too much in tax in New Zealand, and the only way that you will get taxes down and economic growth up is by having a National government. I used the example of Ireland, you can also look to Hong Kong and Singapore to see more low tax, high growth countries.
Furthermore, having just the same tax rate is not enough. We need to be lower than Australia to be able to overtake them.
“‘Bumping up wages’ will also help improve our productivity figures. Why? Because when wages are low it’s cheaper and easier to hire new (low-waged) workers than make capital investments that raise productivity. When workers are expensive, then it’s cheaper to invest in their tools and equipment, thereby raising productivity. Seems simple, yet National deliberately disregards this. My prediction is for productivity to slump under any National government, as it did in the 90s.”
For starters, the figures I have heard is that the rate of productivity increase actually increased during the 1990s, and that the rate of increase is lower today than it was back then. However, even if productivity did slump in the 1990s, it was because we had a huge surplus of labour that came as a result of government departments being dragged into the modern age. Even if we had the Employment Contracts Act today, our low unemployment rate will mean that wages will likely not decrease.
Secondly, while forced higher wages may act as impetus to higher productivity, it can just as easily act as impetus for businesses to move overseas. Higher rates of economic growth are also an impetus to higher productivity, and unlike your proposed solution, it will mean we keep our businesses and get higher wages at the same time.
“National. The change you don’t need (unless you’re already rich)”
National – the change you need. We squandered the best economic conditions in a lifetime to spend money subsidising the birth of more children through the “Working for Families” program, sing-a-long courses, and so on instead of cutting taxes like Australia did. Now we are paying the price.
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If you want NZ to crash like the US did, then cut corporate taxes. And bumping up wages is the ONLY thing that helps improve productivity figures because when you pay workers, they spend the money and increase demand. When you let corporations keep more money, they give million dollar bonuses to executives, gold plate the bathroom fixtures, and add a jet to the corporate fleet. Don’t do what America did!
The free-trade agreement with China was nuts, too. The cheap Chinese crap they send here is even inferior to the cheap Chinese crap they send to the States. When this junk breaks after a few months, it ends up in landfills.
Also- since that agreement was signed, 2 companies who used to manufacture here have left for low-wage countries. That cost NZ many good-paying jobs. They can’t compete with cheap Chinese labour.
National is taking the country the same way Bush took America. It’s a mistake. Economies grow from the base up, don’t buy into Trickle-down Economics. Even Greenspan admitted it didn’t work. Increase wages, replace high import tarriffs and protect NZ jobs.
And vote Greens!
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