30 thoughts on “Bush and Howard melt away to leave Rodney and John increasingly lonely on their iceberg

  1. Hmmm… in the grip of an intense solar minimum sea ice coverage has nearly recovered to normal levels… rather than exceeding them. Doesn’t look like any sort of smoking gun to me Wat. Not really evidence of anything much on either side.

    BJ

  2. The Greens press release makes it clear:

    Greens disappointed at mischief-making

    The Green Party says National Party blogger David Farrar is mischief-making over his attempts to link the Greens to the cocktail party recordings.

    “While it is true that the man who admits to having made the recordings is related to a Green Party staff member, no one in the office, including the taper’s relative, was aware of his plans to make the tape recordings,” Co-Leaders Jeanette Fitzsimons and Russel Norman say.

    “Neither Russel or myself were even aware of the taper’s identity till yesterday when he was named on another blog,” Ms Fitzsimons says.

    “We have checked, and he has never been a Green Party member.

    “The Green Party believes in transparency and honesty we do not condone the secret taping of private conversations.

  3. # big bro Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 9:05 am

    >> Any comment from Frog on Kees Keieser and his connections with the Greens and Sue Bradford?

    We’ve always assumed this guy was a Labour supporter. So if he’s a Green Party supporter, why did he only release tapes of the National Party conference? We’ve always known the Greens have a better chance of winning over soft Labour supporters than soft National ones. Or did he also infiltrate the Labour conference, and find nothing untoward that he could leak?

  4. cherie crawford Says:
    November 7th, 2008 at 1:26 am

    >> I think the reason why the Green had to draw this (figurative picture) of Rodney looking so small, in this silly picture.

    It’s called scaling, you idiot. If they drew him life-size, he wouldn’t fit on the screen!

  5. Speaking of Denial….

    Any comment from Frog on Kees Keieser and his connections with the Greens and Sue Bradford?

  6. cherie – you’re priceless! Rodney the Dominator …I go all quivery when you say that! And the Goliath Greens – well, yes, it seems to be shaping up that way in the polls :-)

  7. I think the reason why the Green had to draw this (figurative picture) of Rodney looking so small, in this silly picture. Is because in real life he’s such a dominator, that the Greens feel threatened by his Political Leadership. But, if you were to move away from the child-like cartoons and distorted figurative picture & draw a ‘real life’ one…..then we’d see Rodney like David & Greens like Goliath (who really think they are dominators) but get ‘shot down’ when Act forms Goverment with National and the Greens are left swimming to shore.

  8. You’ve got it all wrong with the silly picture. A more realitic picture would be of key and Rodney on a ‘titantic’ huge ship & the greens on the block of ice, waving their arms up for rescue.

  9. If you could isolate the commodity from the speculation and the rest of the economy you’d be right Kahikatea. My point is that the price movements in oil are often not purely driven by ordinary market forces. Focusing on price as strongly as BP and some Green commentators have done, is a mistake. Peak oil consequences as well, are not the same thing as the phenomena of having reached that peak.

    The problem is that one of the consequences expected from peak-oil is a massive recession. If we’re having one anyway it is hard to work out how much importance to attach to the oil component of it. The real consequences will appear only when the economy of the planet tries to lift out of recession and we may find that we’ve bought enough time to do some additional substitution during the recession. If we haven’t we won’t get out of the recession as easily as we might expect.

    respectfully

    BJ

  10. “surely the relation between price and volume is an indicator. If the price rises and supply rises as a result, you’re not at the peak. If the price rises and supply doesn’t rise as a result, you are.”

    Yes, but then we are measuring it in United States Dollars. If the value of US Dollars is going down, then it is possible that the real price of oil is not moving, and therefore supply would not move as a result.

    To consider it in real price, you would have to utilise a currency that is not prone to inflation; the best choice in my opinion would be good ole Aurum (Gold)

  11. bjchip Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:44 pm

    >> The reserve levels are actually pretty well known. The (supply) maximum rate of extraction (without damaging the fields) is pretty well known, and declining in all known major fields. That’s what peak oil is about. Price is not an indicator.

    surely the relation between price and volume is an indicator. If the price rises and supply rises as a result, you’re not at the peak. If the price rises and supply doesn’t rise as a result, you are.

  12. # nik Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    >> So you are saying that if it is unknown we must understand it? If it is unknown we can’t know that it is finite? Is that what you are saying?

    no, he’s saying that if we don’t know how soon or how dramatically the problem is going to hit, we should act as if it’s not going to happen at all.

  13. BP

    The reserve levels are actually pretty well known. The (supply) maximum rate of extraction (without damaging the fields) is pretty well known, and declining in all known major fields. That’s what peak oil is about. Price is not an indicator. Demand is determined by the economy in varying sectors..

    How flexible various economies are in their use of the stuff is important.

    Oil is most important to transport. In any recession the demand plummets and the Baltic Dry Goods index is telling you flatly that this is what is happening. However, there isn’t a clear correlation between the prices achieved earlier and this economic event. The economic system is so distorted that its failure can’t clearly be attributed to any one cause, but recession and economic turmoil was part of the peak-oil predictions.

    I think you are over-focused on price, discounting demand issues too much.

    BJ

  14. So you are saying that if it is unknown we must understand it? If it is unknown we can’t know that it is finite? Is that what you are saying?

  15. Reminds me of fwargs oil charts….

    A rising oil price indicates peak oil is upon us.
    A falling oil price indicates peak oil is upon us.
    An oscillating oil price indicates peak oil is upon us.

    We’ve yet to have a stable oil price indicates peak oil is upon us, but I’m sure we’ll see it soon.

  16. BluePeter Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    > Tell me, what conditions would indicate *no* global warming?

    I’d say a fall in global average temperatures sufficient to reverse most of the rise in average temperature over the last 20 years would be reasonably compelling evidence.

  17. Another one of these “everything is a sign of global warming” explanations.

    Tell me, what conditions would indicate *no* global warming? No icebergs off Epsom?

  18. # BluePeter Says:
    November 6th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    > Icebergs off Epsom! Sure will be glad when this global warming thing starts happening….

    actually, global warming means more probability of icebergs off Epsom.

    The main thing that influences how far north an iceberg can float without completely melting is actually the original size of the iceberg. And the biggest icebergs are formed by meltwater getting into cracks in ice sheets, which happens when the world is warming.

  19. fwwog, this is an incredibly weak graphic,
    if you want to find out about graphic fwwog pop along to TUMEKE
    meanwhile fwwog
    get used to being in opposition yet again, and forever a weak party,
    when will you learn amphiban,

  20. “John, John, if you just let met slip into your caucus, we’ll both survive the coming meltdown”.

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