by frog
There is an interesting little debate going between Russel and the Federated Farmers on what the Feds are quaintly calling rural representation (page 22 of pdf):
The Local Electoral Act 2001 has diminished rural representation, a particular concern when councils depend so heavily on rates based on property value. The Act requires strict adherence to a +/-10% quota for the number of people each councillor should represent. The resulting council representation reviews has seen a reduction in rural wards and the number of councillors from rural parts of districts. Federated Farmers then goes on to say that it wants ‘Councils to be given the flexibility to decide representation arrangements’.
Which is where Russel picks up the debate and clarifies exactly what it is that the Feds are asking for:
What this means is that the Feds want a system in which Councils can decide to change their voting system so that rural wards have fewer voters than town wards or city wards.
This will mean that a majority of councillors can be elected by a minority of voters. This is a kind of feudalism in which some people are more equal than others.
This is a fundamental attack on the idea that we are all equal and that town voters are worth the same as rural voters. It will entrench undemocratic minority control over regional councils and district councils.
Toad has an example of just what sort of damage this gerrymandering of electoral systems did in Queensland in the 1970s and 80s. Russel notes:
National’s Agriculture Spokesman, David Carter, said today that ‘the policies and principles laid out in the manifesto largely reflect those in National’s 2008 agriculture and biosecurity policies’.
Hopefully the Fed Farmers’ Manifesto doesn’t also largely reflect National’s democracy policies, because everyone’s vote should count equally. Rural New Zealanders do need a special political voice, but they don’t need a disproportionate political voice that distorts democracy. The Feds seem to imply that those with the most money and land, and thus the most rates, should get the most political voice.
Published in Justice & Democracy by frog on Wed, November 5th, 2008
Tags: , electoral system, Federated Farmers, gerrymander, rural representation, Russel Norman
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
- “This is a fundamental attack on the idea that we are all equal ”
- “everyone’s vote should count equally.”
Apart from Maori, of course, who should have seats reserved specially for them.
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1. wat dabney Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
> – “everyone’s vote should count equally.”
> Apart from Maori, of course, who should have seats reserved specially for them.
I don’t think we need special Maori seats, but the special Maori seats that do exist do not have more representatives per elegible voter in the way that these proposed rural seats do, so they are not a gerrymander.
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It’s just amusing to see Russel so vocal and outraged over some technical voting issue, yet all the while being happy to pander to racists.
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Russel will continue to be “vocal and outraged” until he achieves his utopia of a communist one party state.
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Two party. Remember the Maoi seats.
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One party Wat, Maori will be royalty and receive special treatment and privilege.
……oh hang on a minute
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Maoi? Are those Easter Island seats?
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A vocal Russel …that worries you two nail biters, doesn’t it.
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greenfly
I would just like an honest Russel, I know that is somewhat of a difficult concept for you to grasp but stick with it and you might eventually understand.
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greenfly
And start practicing the following phrase..”John Key, Prime Minister”
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One of the nicest things about the election result in the US was the humility and generosity expressed in the speeches of both McCain and Obama. It is really only too sad that we can’t expect anything similar here, from the looks of things…
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We’d all just like an honest big bro, though it is a difficult concept for him to understand that he just looks like an ass calling someone else a liar when he can’t help doing it himself.
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“It is really only too sad that we can’t expect anything similar here”
Actually John Key has been very civil towards the opposition while labour have engaged in one of the dirtiest campain’s ever.
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What was that phrase again BB? … “John Key, Sub-Prime Minister”?
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Yep, Russell’s concern with one person one vote would be more believable if he also supported the abolition of the Maori seats and their overhang.
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Bryan
How do you see the commitment made to Maori for partnership made in 1840 borne out in our political system without the Maori seats? That is, what would the basic landscape look like.
I prefer to avoid using “majority” and “democratic” as reasons to dispense with them when our entire system political and economic is a result of imposition by a minority (UK) on a majority (Maori). Times may change but those two systems had an enormous and long lasting, even though today, impact on how” it is” in 2008 in NZ.
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Let’s discuss the representation of Maori, Pacific Island, Asian region and women within our political system. Just as the Greens existence hs resulted in a shift by the two major parties toward more environmental, food etc issues within their own policies, the Maori seats and the MP have seen a shift in the political landscape, by the two main parties toward maori policies etc. Without either party how much longer, if at all, would such changes have taken?
I heard John Key say he acknowledged that National needed more Pacific Islanders and maori on its front benches… yet proposed none. In fact in recent times the nats have removed a Maori Women rather than promoted any.
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merlinz: it’s 2008, FFS move on man.
The Maori seats have clearly done nothing to improve the lot of those Maori stuck in the mindset of victimhood and living in poverty,crime and disease. All they have done is give power and capital to Maori elite while distorting NZ’s democratic process.
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“FFS” Bryan look deeper than the surface. You are being naieve or deliberately obtuse if you think the past doesnt walk hand in hand with the present as cause and effect.
You may well be right that they have done nothing to improve the lot of Maori but as long as they and the MPty exist and have a parliamentary voice, issues are heard. A voice, however small is better than silence. There is NO evidence that National, who have had the lion share of governance since 1840 (compared to Labour) have done anything to alleviate those problems which concern you, so having more of them (Nats MPs) and less maori would not seem to progress things on that score. I am not saying Labou has done a good job either.
Given past behaviour of Labour and Nats , I ask again, How do you see the commitment made to Maori for partnership made in 1840 borne out in our political system without the Maori seats? That is, what would the basic landscape look like.
It’s a very european thing to say “a contract is a contract” even if circumstances change over time as long as the contract runs it must be followed, except when it comes to the Treaty.
To date that partnership, between Maori and Britain, has been interpreted/ignored/acted upon almost exclusively in economic and political terms by the reps or inheritors of the British. Resolution of Treaty claims per se will not alleviate the problems you outline, and never could. There has to be a deeper philisophical, emotional , psychological, political and economic shift in thinking. Black and white thinking does not work on this, or many issues.
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I laugh at the name calling and assertion of dishonesty from people who don’t want to hear something. It reminds me of a study years ago about the top financial and political empire builders. The conclusion was that the majority were in actual fact mentally unstable and wanted the power to cover up issues they had, leading to a joke about the small dick syndrome.
I tire of coming to the blog to find their usual negative rubbishing of anything they haven’t got the intellegence or emotional will to understand. I tolerate them as I strongly believe in democracy which is the right for all to express and represent their say.
Yet they try and intimidate with the negative to bully others out of their say. Why they can’t stick to the point and enhance the debate, and it reminds me of many political activists from other parties I have seen during the election, mainly ACT.
I wouldn’t ever vote for parties who need these sort of bullies.
I agree with Russells assertion that what Fed Fasrmers want is a slanting of democracy for power. The assumption that they should have this because of more land or money makes me wonder how much better the land use would be if those with a better life outlook weren’t being locked out by these power games?
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Further the Maori haven’t been asking for greater representation in democracy but to be better heard. My experiences on Marae is that when they debate issues they respectfully listen to all arguements and share there thoughts and concerns until a consensus emerges that unifies the people to go ahead. A lot of Maori have the problem they are gullible to the lack of good in others and end up with the biggest health issues that hold them back. Tobacco companies have been shown up selling to young age Africans lately and P is a scourge from pushers of all races.
I am so pleased I have helped them find a unity, self respect, and sense of purpose by helping them voice their opinion and reestablish the leadership which was destroyed dying for us in World War 2.
Maori Television is the first channel I click to when looking for something on TV as their documentaries and stories are world class, and I learn as much or more from their news coverage although I have only a limited knowledge of their vocabulary.
They have a channel that shames the commercial agenda of the rest of the TV coverage. I would be extremely proud if I was Maori.
A saying of theirs that sums it up.
How can the eyes see if the heart can’t see.
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Hey, we’re talking about farmers here on this thread, not Maori.
Most Maori can’t farm anymore, because past governments orchestrated the alienation of their land.
Oh, yes, and now the seabed and foreshore, under a not so past government!
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