Comments on: A new lens for US trade relations http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/ hopping along the corridors of power Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:14:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: andrew http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64293 andrew Sun, 09 Nov 2008 06:19:14 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64293 i agree it would be better if the whole of parliament (& the nation) could participate in the negotiating process, but i disagree that the country is "bound" by anything other than a law passed by parliament. we don't "have to" meet any obligations not ultimately authorised by parliament. failing to meet one of the terms of a treaty only costs us in the sense that the other party is not obligated to meet their commitments to us if we don't reciprocate. the main reason parliament has not (to my or your knowledge) rejected any provision of any treaty is that the executive is typically also in control of a majority in parliament - something that mmp at least may help fix i agree it would be better if the whole of parliament (& the nation) could participate in the negotiating process, but i disagree that the country is “bound” by anything other than a law passed by parliament. we don’t “have to” meet any obligations not ultimately authorised by parliament.
failing to meet one of the terms of a treaty only costs us in the sense that the other party is not obligated to meet their commitments to us if we don’t reciprocate.
the main reason parliament has not (to my or your knowledge) rejected any provision of any treaty is that the executive is typically also in control of a majority in parliament – something that mmp at least may help fix

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]]> By: Valis http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64195 Valis Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:05:38 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64195 The point is still that NZ becomes bound by the treaty before the House gets to consider anything. This means no select committee scrutiny nor public submissions. These things happen for the law changes which get used as a surrogate, but that isn't enough in my view. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the law changes were ever rejected, which I don't think the House has ever done. I expect in most cases this is because it would hurt NZ given that we still have to meet the treaty obligations. The law changes are meant to enable this, so not making them would cost us somewhere. The point is still that NZ becomes bound by the treaty before the House gets to consider anything. This means no select committee scrutiny nor public submissions. These things happen for the law changes which get used as a surrogate, but that isn’t enough in my view. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the law changes were ever rejected, which I don’t think the House has ever done. I expect in most cases this is because it would hurt NZ given that we still have to meet the treaty obligations. The law changes are meant to enable this, so not making them would cost us somewhere.

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]]> By: andrew http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64165 andrew Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:56:51 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64165 thanks valis that is indeed the misunderstanding i was labouring under. but still, what kind of provisions of a treaty would the executive be able to execute without a law being passed? seems to me that is as good as a ratification requirement. thanks valis that is indeed the misunderstanding i was labouring under. but still, what kind of provisions of a treaty would the executive be able to execute without a law being passed? seems to me that is as good as a ratification requirement.

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]]> By: Valis http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64073 Valis Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:52:38 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64073 I believe andrew thinks I was talking about the US House, but I was talking about the NZ House. Apologies for not being more clear. I believe andrew thinks I was talking about the US House, but I was talking about the NZ House. Apologies for not being more clear.

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]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64058 kahikatea Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:00:21 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64058 # andrew Says: November 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pm > not quite - treaties signed by the president need to be ratified by 2 thirds majority of senate. eh? you seem to be saying that as if you were disputing Valis's claim that they're different, but your evidence actually backs up Valis's claim. # andrew Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 1:51 pm

> not quite – treaties signed by the president need to be ratified by 2 thirds majority of senate.

eh?

you seem to be saying that as if you were disputing Valis’s claim that they’re different, but your evidence actually backs up Valis’s claim.

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]]> By: andrew http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64055 andrew Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:51:06 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64055 not quite - treaties signed by the president need to be ratified by 2 thirds majority of senate. not quite – treaties signed by the president need to be ratified by 2 thirds majority of senate.

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]]> By: Valis http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64012 Valis Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:09:12 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-64012 Not like the US, as the only thing that comes to the House are the law changes needed as a result of the Treaty, which the Executive commits the country to on its own. Not like the US, as the only thing that comes to the House are the law changes needed as a result of the Treaty, which the Executive commits the country to on its own.

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]]> By: andrew http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63920 andrew Thu, 06 Nov 2008 06:41:08 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63920 nz not so different from usa - treaty provisions still need to be passed into law by legislature after exec has negotiated & signed them nz not so different from usa – treaty provisions still need to be passed into law by legislature after exec has negotiated & signed them

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]]> By: nik http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63792 nik Wed, 05 Nov 2008 05:01:43 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63792 Well, I must just be able to cope for three years even if our election results suck ;) Well, I must just be able to cope for three years even if our election results suck ;)

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]]> By: turnip28 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63784 turnip28 Wed, 05 Nov 2008 04:09:46 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63784 All the american news networks have just called the election for Obama. All the american news networks have just called the election for Obama.

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]]> By: turnip28 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63778 turnip28 Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:50:02 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63778 its up to congress Kahikatea because all treaties need to be approved by the congress unlike in NZ where the executive has the power. Good luck getting a treaty through the special interest groups in the congress, ask the Aussie's how their trade treaty is working out for them. its up to congress Kahikatea because all treaties need to be approved by the congress unlike in NZ where the executive has the power.

Good luck getting a treaty through the special interest groups in the congress, ask the Aussie’s how their trade treaty is working out for them.

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]]> By: kahikatea http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63774 kahikatea Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:36:43 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63774 I like the sound of Obama's trade policy, but is it actually up to the president? or is it up to congress? I like the sound of Obama’s trade policy, but is it actually up to the president? or is it up to congress?

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]]> By: dbuckley http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63770 dbuckley Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:20:08 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63770 Currently 202 vs 80, looking like a landslide unless the west coast gets very red... Given we have troops in Afghanistan, and one of the very few things that President Elect Obama has said he will do is bomb the place, the more pressing question is what is NZ's role going to be in this impending mess? Currently 202 vs 80, looking like a landslide unless the west coast gets very red…

Given we have troops in Afghanistan, and one of the very few things that President Elect Obama has said he will do is bomb the place, the more pressing question is what is NZ’s role going to be in this impending mess?

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]]> By: turnip28 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63769 turnip28 Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:14:51 +0000 http://blog.greens.org.nz/2008/11/05/a-new-lens-for-us-trade-relations/#comment-63769 Well Obama is the new president. We just need to wait for McCain to concede and for the polls to close in CA in like 45min. Well Obama is the new president. We just need to wait for McCain to concede and for the polls to close in CA in like 45min.

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