by frog
United Future has followed the Greens in assessing the two old parties policy platforms and letting voters know before the election which one it will be supporting. It’s a bit harder to tell from it’s media release exactly what policies it based this decision on, but I guess we know from past practice one issue that is always dear to Peter Dunne’s heart:
Speaking at Parliament this morning, National leader John Key did not specify what portfolio Mr Dunne would be given under National but said he looked forward to ‘Peter serving as a minister’.
So I guess you can now add another head to the monster that would be a National-led government? No major surprise there. I’ve suggested before that United Future, when it does have policy, is often to the right of National.
That decision now leaves the Maori Party and Labour in a diminishing minority of parties that won’t let voters know before the election what it is that they will be voting for. You could, I suppose, add New Zealand First to that set too if it were not for it having its mind already made up for it by John Key.
Labour has sent signals that despite wanting to be associated with the Greens again before the election it would rather work with Peters after the election. Which really means that a Labour leaning voter that wants Labour-Greens must now be thinking about party voting Greens to make sure that Labour is forced to negotiate with the Greens rather than Peters.
Published in Campaign by frog on Mon, October 27th, 2008
Tags: john key, labour party, national party, New Zealand First, peter dunne, united future
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
Dunne’s a dork, but what great news that he has played his flaccid hand.
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That monster comment by Mr Key has really hit home, hasn’t it? With current polling, Act and United contribute only 3-4 seats to tip National over the edge. I don’t think it is the same situation as Labour needing 15-20 seats.
Can anyone explain why Labour prefers NZF to Greens? You guys seem pleasant enough…
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Aside from being a Minister, Mr Dunne has sided with National in order to get his beloved Transmission Gulley roading project through. He knows very well that any Labour led coalition involving the Greens will mean this project is “derailed” in favour of focusing funding the much more sensible (and cost effective) upgrading of the Western Line/ Coastal Route.
Mr Dunne is not “serving in the interests of all New Zealanders” as he puts it, he’s serving in the interests of himself and his own “nimby” (not in my backyard) electorate.
Processes in this country are a joke.
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All Winston needs is a cabinet position. We on the other hand, would “startle the horses” and make changes.
BJ
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You Greens are just a vindictive bunch of pricks. His 2 votes for the past govt. meant that The Greens were only offered C&S position. Why do you think, even Labour did not want to get into coalition with you last time? BC you are such a bunch of eco-control freaks, more so than Labour.
Unluckily for NZ, if we get a 5-7 headed Labour led monster we will be a lot more rooted as a country than one under National.
To say that you will not go with National shows more your Communist ideal more than your supposed green ethos. Labour’s increase in CO2 emissions have increased higher than Aust/USA per capita, so much for Kyoto.
But as it is, Green=Communism/control/compulsion/taxation….
Also, since the NZD has fallen so dramatically in recent weeks, this means we will need to pay Russia in USD/EURO to pay for our comittment to Kyoto. Are you still in favour of this as our cash surplus is being Culleneted faster every day?
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“Greens to make sure that Labour is forced to negotiate with the Greens”
Negotiate with what?, you guys have already shown your hand.
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big bro – too naive, think more deeply!
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“Can anyone explain why Labour prefers NZF to Greens? You guys seem pleasant enough…”
Winston can be bought off with a few baubles, while the Greens will try to influence things more widely. Winston will much more easily trade one policy issue off against another, while the Greens generally refuse to do that. Also, they can go to Winston for a quick decision and know they’ll get it, because he makes policy. The Greens co-leaders cannot make new policy so easily on their own.
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“Negotiate with what?, you guys have already shown your hand.”
There’s way more to it than stating a preference. They know we would prefer no deal to a poor one. The longest and most detailed agreement Labour signed in 2005 was with the Greens, and we weren’t even needed for them to form a govt. They know we have to bring the Party along too. The co-leaders do not get to decide this. Also, Labour will want things tied up before Christmas, while that’s not an issue for the Greens. The pressure will be on them, particularly with the Maori Party saying they can go either way.
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Dunnes continued election in Ohariu does not say much for the critical thinking of residents in that Wellington Electorate. Hopefully this latest pandering move will awaken them to what a slime ball he really is
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Weedeater
This may shock you but I agree with your description of Dunne, the man is indeed a slime ball and as far as I know he is still to repay the money stolen from the tax payer at the last election.
Where we will disagree is that while you quite correctly apply this tag to Dunne for his manipulative style and abuse of our electoral system you seem to have been strangely quiet on his activities for the last three years, only now that he has thrown his lot in with the Nat’s do you feel so moved as to comment.
I also find it interesting that you berate Dunne for his abuse of the system while no doubt defending the disgusting and slimy way that Dr Norman manipulated the Green party list to enable him to enter parliament.
But then the Greens are rather good at selective morality.
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Though Russel was at 9 on the 2005 list, he is at 2 on the current list. To bring in someone before him on the old list for a few months, only to be replaced by him at the election is absurd. Once Nandor decided to go, this was the only realistic option and you’d probably have been among those pointing out just how stupid we were if we’d done otherwise. Number 7 was very keen to step aside to let Russel in. Number 8 was not at first, but came around when the media and other members let him know what they thought of his stance. And this whole situation only came about due to the untimely death of a co-leader.
You have no answer for this, big bro, which you know becasue I’ve posted similar many times before and you never respond. That’s what’s slimy.
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have commented with ALCP on Dunne many a time, big bro, as he (along with Anderton) is our nemesis, and stitched up the veto on cannabis law reform which has underpinned the last two coalition support agreements 2002, 2005. Now that was real underhand and dirty because IN 2002 it was right in the middle of the law review inquiry which had found nothing good about prohibition…so due process got trodden on by the biggest bigot panderer in NZ history.
what was sad was the eagerness with which Helen and friends jumped at the opportunity to bury their inquiry (favouring the crime growth industry vested interests and organised crime and dumpin on ordinary Kiwis, it seems)… so much for effective and appropriate public health measures for cannabis…
fyi there is a thread or two on Dunnes latest stunt, on Trademe.http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Threads.aspx?topic=7
lively threads there on Trademe, not as esoteric as frog blog of course, Greens should front up there a bit more as you getting pasted left right and centre..
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Valis
The term of this govt does not end until we elect a new one therefore it is indeed extremely slimy of the Greens to manipulate their party list to get Dr Norman into the house.
You guys often repeat the fact that the party elects the list and therefore you have a duty to see that the next person on that list takes their place, you even admitted it yourself when you said that no8 was happy to “let Russ in”.
It has nothing to do with anything being ‘realistic” or not, unless of course you are happy to admit that you are NOT the party of ethics and principal and simply another party of slime and sleaze that typifies left wing politics.
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Weedeater
I sure hope that the media ask about the details of a Green coalition with Labour, the support for marijuana reform will see the Greens slip right back toward the 5% mark.
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“have commented with ALCP on Dunne many a time, big bro, as he (along with Anderton) is our nemesis, and stitched up the veto on cannabis law reform which has underpinned the last two coalition support agreements 2002, 2005.”
Not arguing with you here at all, but should also note that Dunne’s position changed from 2002 to 2005. In 2002 he blocked all law reform, even for medicinal use. In 2005, he blocked reform only for recreational use. So if Metiria’s medicinal use bill had been pulled from the ballot during the last term, Labour would have been free to support it.
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doubt it Big bro. the 8% already voting green know full well the greens have a cannabis reform policy and obviously are comfortable with it being the low key approach.
the ones who object have already bailed and are probably that 0.1% who support United Future.
anyway if you recall 1999 when the media started asking curly questions about greens, Nandor and pot about 2 and a half weeks out from election day, the greens polling suddenly rocketed from 2% to as much as 9 or 10% (AND GOT THE PARTY ELECTED). In theory if the electorate were better informed by some canvassing of the issue, the greens could become a 20% party…
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“You guys often repeat the fact that the party elects the list and therefore you have a duty to see that the next person on that list takes their place, you even admitted it yourself when you said that no8 was happy to “let Russ in”.”
Please show where we’ve said that we “have a duty to see that the next person on that list takes their place”. You won’t be able to because all we’ve said is that the next person has a right to the seat – that is simply the law. It means they have to agree to step aside, which they are also entitled to do by law. We have no problem with people choosing to do this. It has happened in other parties with no comment from us.
What you purposly ignore is the context of this decision for the individuals concerned. If Nandor had left Parliament without Rod having died, number 7 on the list would have come in, not Russel at number 10 (got his position wrong above). Ironically, that would have been Nandor. I would agree there would have been some unethical manipulation going on if that didn’t happen. But with Russel at #2 on the new list and guaranteed to be in at the next election, #8 and #9 did the right thing for the Party. Nothing slimy about it.
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true Valis, well spotted, but notice nothing much actually happened with med pot anyway- really the impediment all along has been Labour’s lack of political will (and one expects better from them).
I think Labour secretly like the crime growth industry because it has helped them create the illusion that the economy was growing. Dysfunction creates jobs for people mopping up the mess. A MATRIX of dysfuntion makes for a massive sector of grifters…
(none of which is productive of course)
the greens really should be more up front in pursuit of cannabis law reform, we all stand to gain by knee capping the billion dollar black market and focusing on harm reduction and protection of citizens and environment (hemp) – and get some honesty back into NZ politics…
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“really the impediment all along has been Labour’s lack of political will (and one expects better from them)”
Agree entirely. Will be interesting to see what happens if we’re in the fold next time.
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have to admit im really ambivalent about greens sometimes.
on the one hand i want to see them punished for dropping the cannabis ball and letting repression rule the land for the last 9 years, but then i am a true environmentalist myself (greener than green even) and i see that sort of comment from you valis and im hoping there will be a nice big left bloc taking power after nov 8. good luck
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Dunne for Minister of Silly Hairdoooz!
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# samiam Says:
October 27th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
> Dunne for Minister of Silly Hairdoooz!
People always seem to be judging male politicians on their hairdos, whether it be Nandor’s dreads, Pita’s mullet, Don Brash’s comb-over or Peter Dunne’s lunatic fringe.
Imagine the outcry if people judged female politicians on those grounds!
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Dun-der-head?
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“protection of citizens and environment (hemp)”
Didn’t Tanczos get hemp production legalised-or-sumfing?
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“Imagine the outcry if people judged female politicians on those grounds!”
I would happily ‘judge’ female politicians on their hair if anyone had something that wasn’t just ‘shortish’ or ‘long’.
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stephenR…
re hemp – are you allowed to grow it? im not, nor are we allowed to eat the (rich in omega 3,6and9) seed from the ‘legal’ crops. Nor is it being touted as a source of ethanol for biofuel despite being about the most land-efficient crop there is…. (repression factor again, cone of silence etc)
but i suppose all the red tape and liscencing expense for the 20 or so permitted hemp grow-ops creates work for more labour appointed bureaucrats….eh…
anyway if cannabis was decriminalised (in line with all teh public health evidence) hemp would be totally freed up and growing in a relatively unfettered way, just as the Earth Mother intended.
totally agree with dunnes new portfolio: silly haircuts – Dunnehille would be a natural too as Slime Minister of NZ…
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The Optimist said:
Can anyone explain why Labour prefers NZF to Greens? You guys seem pleasant enough…
You’re right, Optimist, we are! I think it’s Labour’s fear of the vitriolic tantrum Peters would throw should he feel he was the second cab (rank eh!)
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>>why Labour prefers NZF to Greens
Because NZFirst won’t bankrupt the country with uncosted, fanciful “policy”.
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Key has said he will not deal with Winston, but he may suddenly change his mind if it is the only way he will get power. Remember Bolger did something very similar.
As a Tauranga voter I have not yet made up my mind on which candidate to vote for. Should it be Winston, so he can prop up a labour-greens coalition government, or should it be Simon to ensure Winston stays out. The problem is I don’t like either of them much, especially Simon with his unashamed greed-is-good philosophy. The candidate I like best is the independent since he will support the will of the people over battery cages, but he hasn’t a show.
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kiore
I know that integrity is a foreign word to most Greens but Key will NOT do a deal with Winston.
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Mr John “Climate Change yes/no, Iraq yes/no, Kiwi Saver yes/no, Working for Families yes/no”, Key? However, Kiore 1, could you think that!
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“I know that integrity is a foreign word to most Greens”
Why is it that the person who’s shown the least amount of integrity on this blog is also the one who talks about it the most?
“but Key will NOT do a deal with Winston.”
And gullible too.
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BP
How’s the Tesla running ?
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>Dunnes (sic) continued election in Ohariu does not say much for the critical thinking of residents in that Wellington Electorate
>
Sadly it says a lot about the residents of his electorate, including me! While there is a lot I don’t like about Mr. Dunne, he is an excellent electorate MP and very involved with the local community. How he keeps up with everything that is going on I don’t know, but if you ask him to attend he’s there, usually with a cheque for his ticket too! Ohariu might prefer he wasn’t in government, but we’re sure glad he’s our MP.
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>>How’s the Tesla running ?
I don’t have one.
Technical innovation always involves piles of dead bodies. Which electric/alt-power car makers will survive?
Who knows…
In a down economy, one would have to bet on GM, Chrysler & Ford over small start-ups like Tesla. My guess is Tesla exists mostly to develop and sell IP….
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Sorry, but your story is not convincing. Apart from being a heck of a guy who turns up to pat kids on the head, can you say how your citizens actually benefit from Dunne’s presence in Parliament? Anything there to make it worth what the rest of the country has to put up with?
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amphibian,
fwwog,
dear fwwogs what i love,
i told yous before to go with NAT.
you could have and you had the timne we gave you,
what do you do, you go with oblivion,
fwwog, fwwog,
how do you do it ,
it will be ten tears ten years before you come back,
yous will have to be bwavw fwwog
this is our time,
ends pq
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you Green do not understand politic,
you sell out to losers,
Rod Donalds principles don’t work.
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