I don’t like Frog’s choice of words either, but you’re starting to sound like Shunda now, making things sound other than what they really were. Caved to the minority opinion? Like we were once on the other side but switched under the pressure? That majority you’re referring to still doesn’t know the facts of S59 repeal due to the propaganda of a few, aided and abetted by a derelict media.

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“Violence against children is good business”

To write something like that you must be one of the 20% or so who supported Sue Bradfords legislation, which makes you wonder what it is about the green membership that they caved in to the minority opinion?

Remember too that success in the polls doesn’t necessarily mean support for S59 legislation, you went down whenever that was aired.

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“if someone is capable of building a house to sound building practice, they should be allowed to do it with out a whole lot of red tape.”

but there would necessarily be some red tape in verifying that capability.

“The leaky building crisis was due to registered builders shoddy work”

ie. capable people not performing to this capability.

bj, thanks for your input. considered and rational as usual. appreciated.

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Thanks bjchip for your response, I found that quite interesting.

Greenfly, I had no idea that “lefty” was so provocative, I certainly didn’t intend to cause any great offense by using it.

joy, I certainly believe there should be a building act, I am not suggesting an open slather approach at all. The issue I have is that if someone is capable of building a house to sound building practice, they should be allowed to do it with out a whole lot of red tape.
The leaky building crisis was due to registered builders shoddy work, not the home handy man.

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Shunda,

I trust that most folk would applaud you for wanting to be more self sufficcient.

However, in respect of building (or even renovating/relcocating) a house, I consider it to be very sensible that there are regulations (The Building Act) to try and ensure that the dwelling will be safe, sound, have appropraite insulation, safe electricity, drainage and so forth.

Anyone who believes that they see a major fault in any legislation is free to try and lobby to have the relevent section reviewed.

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shunda – it may seem a trivial point, but if you mean, “people of a left leaning political perspective”, then say it, remembering that many greens think they are neither left nor right, but ‘green’ in their political perspective. When you keep hammering home your lable ‘lefty’, they feel aggrieved, in the way you do when you are described as a fundy. fyi.

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Shunda

My understanding of the legislation is that you can do a lot of stuff to your own house as long as you are the one living in it. There’s supposedly an exclusion in the legislation for that particular condition. I have been looking at building my own house as well and doing my usual job while preparing for a time when the finances might work.

The deal with housing is that this country followed the English model and councils are responsible for a lot of things that they should not be, but to proclaim that this has to do with us is a nonsense. Most of us here regard it (housing) as an area in need of much change.

Leaky-Homes happened in the USA too. The monolithic cladding industry fooled a fair lot of inspectors and buyers and builders back then. The difference however, is that the “council” there isn’t on the hook for how the house is built in any but the most basic ways. When you buy a house there YOU pay an inspector and the sale is conditional until everything the inspector finds is addressed. The seller probably paid an inspector in self-defence. The bank that gives you the mortgage may have their own inspector but the deal is that the council? It doesn’t certify squat. House is found defective you can sue the inspector AND the builder AND the seller (depending on the sales contract) and THEY all have insurance.

Council is not on the hook.

Here councils are looking at ruinous legal reparations and repairs and they reacted to the problem by trying to make more regulations and insisting on registered builders because the registered builders have a lot of clout in the council. Just how this is being laid at our feet I can’t understand. The parliament reacted in a similar vein but that’s still got nothing to do with Greens.

Limited Government? – Appropriate Decision Making. You might consider our drug policies, Our resistance to the monolithic Aussie food regulation organization. A mixed bag if all you are looking for are reductions and limitations but there isn’t an agenda of MORE government and that is just another reason why the misrepresentations about us tend to get us riled. Me anyway… and I have been known to fire the odd shot at those.

Thing is we are NOT in government, and the right keeps regurgitating the opinion that we are, like some indigestible bit of sausage. We regard the current Labour and National block as far closer to each other than either of them are to us. The difference is enough for us to pick a side but there’s no way we LIKE either of them a whole lot.

respectfully
BJ

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“one man’s over-regulation is another man’s open slather so I don’t know how a government is meant to regulate the building industry to allow laymen to build their own homes while excluding cowboys from building shoddy death-traps.”

I’m not even allowed to legally replace a window or reclad the house I’ve got, let alone build a new one!.
The building industry is just one govt intrusion into the kiwi way of life.
Do the greens stand for limited govt or not?
I would have thought the anarchist backgrounds of some of your MPs would have encouraged minimal state intrusion into our lives.
True liberty is missing in NZ and for the life of me I can’t understand why the green party is not confronting this state control freakery, unless of course their is another agenda?

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yeah, don. you totally killed the vibe

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“What a load of rubbish. Wish I not bothered looking at the comments.”

Well you had a long way to read before you came to that conclusion don, thanks for your enlightened dissmissal.
And a wonderful institution the world bank is too.

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now I feel a bit ashamed

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What a load of rubbish. Wish I not bothered looking at the comments.

But Mr Douglass might want to consider the World Banks report that place New Zealand as the second easiest country in the world to do business in. You’d think he would be pleased.

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ummmm

“give me such a patronising reply.” . . . “This is a common tactic of the left, unless an argument is presented in perfect literary form you side track the issue with some insignificant error.”

I’m not sure how I’m meant to know what you mean if you don’t write clearly. omitting a word isn’t a grammatical error. but you are constantly patronising in almost every comment, mister kettle.

one man’s over-regulation is another man’s open slather so I don’t know how a government is meant to regulate the building industry to allow laymen to build their own homes while excluding cowboys from building shoddy death-traps.

but I do hope you get to build your house someday

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nommopilot, I am at a complete loss to understand how you can read my post and give me such a patronising reply.
So because I missed out the word “over” before “regulation” you assume I have some strange sort of anarchist belief system? that advocates “allowing anyone to build anything anywhere”?
Give me a break! and answer my concerns instead of avioding the issues with my gramatical errors.
This is a common tactic of the left, unless an argument is presented in perfect literary form you side track the issue with some insignificant error.

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“Really? is “lefties” deeply offensive to the degree that fundamentalist is to me?”

yes. what do you know about it? you don’t understand me!

“Why do greens not seem to think regulation is a bad thing?”

because a general question like that is nonsensical. some regulation is not only good but completely necessary. some is bad and wrong. your example is bad but it doesn’t follow to say all regulation is bad. in my example earlier allowing anyone to build anything anywhere would be disastrous.

“due to an overly restrictive govt that the greens are part of.”

the greens have voted against the government on confidence and supply for this entire term. they are not part of this government.

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Greenfly are you avoiding the point I was making?

Really? is “lefties” deeply offensive to the degree that fundamentalist is to me?

I mean seriously “fundamentalist” descibes people who burn down abortion clinics, shoot people they don’t like, blow up people with car bombs and crash planes in to buildings.
Is “lefties” really a comparable derogatory term for people of a left leaning political perspective? Perhaps you could give me a better term to use that causes less offense, assuming your not just pulling my leg.
Back to the issue’s I raised.
Do you think my frustration at this over regulated society is illegitamate?.
What is the green party doing to minimise govt regulation and foster the inovation that this country is founded on?.
Why do greens not seem to think regulation is a bad thing?
When you consider that these stupid laws are contributing to the destruction of our environment, I would have thought the greens would see it as an important issue.
An example.
Transit has got an over zealous approach to trees on highways due to the over regulated culture in all of our govt departments.
They have cut down (with DOC) the 1500 year old Matai in south westland, felled a whole lot of other trees on this highway, and now have some 700 – 800 year old Kahikatea in their sights.
THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM WITH THESE TREES KILLING PEOPLE, so why the hell are they cutting them down?
This is the permanent loss of our heritage due to irrational fear becoming legislated into our bloated govt departments.
Equally,inovation is part of our heritage and is disappearing due to an overly restrictive govt that the greens are part of.
Please explain to me what the answer to all this is,if it isn’t removing the current govt and replacing it with another one!

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shunda – how on earth do you reconcile call us ‘lefties’ when you bristle when you get called a ‘fundy’? Do you not realise that you are being provocative with your words or are you, like the dippy big bro, loving to irritate, safe in your online annonominity (spelled however you might want to spell it)?

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“you want to convert me to an un-proven ideological position”

I don’t want o convert you to anything. use your vote how you want to. I find green policies most closely embody the way I want our society to evolve. I’m quite happy for you to vote however you want to.

“tell me why I shouldn’t be frustrated by the things I mentioned earlier, tell me why I should trust the greens not to make things even worse.”

I don’t know the answer. regulations are sometimes costly and restrictive but they do serve a purpose. you may be able to build a house but if anyone could just build one then we’d have a much bigger problem than the leaky homes fiasco. it would result in all sorts of unsafe dwellings being constructed all over the place and cost a whole lot in terms of health, environmental and civil defence consequences.

life is full of frustrations no matter what level of society you’ve settled at. blaming the government might work for you but I find it just causes more frustration.

“You guys don’t want to understand people like me”

are you 14?

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“I’m not suggesting that. if venting about your lot in life on a blog helps go for it.

“You guys are hypocrits”

ouch. stop hurting me.”

Once again, I bring up real issues and lefties move to dissmiss debate, I assume cause its in the to hard basket. You guys don’t want to understand people like me, you want to convert me to an un-proven ideological position on just about everything while expecting me to switch off my eyes and head to the obvious problems this left wing govt is creating.
Tell me why I shouldn’t be frustrated by the things I mentioned earlier, tell me why I should trust the greens not to make things even worse.

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sapient – your nearest Environment Centre will be able to help you. Or you could just start one yourself Ours has developed into an orchard-garden, where we’ve planted apples, plums, berries, vines etc. amongst the annual vegetables and understory of useful (insect attracting/soil improving) plants. So we are covering short and long term food needs. Plus making a very attractive place to be. And a source of plants for the ‘outside community’. And a place where kids can raid fruit (organic)

BluePeter – I do (amongst other things) I live in a ‘food-forest’ and work to develop similar systems for people who want to do the same.

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