by frog
Animal advocacy group SAFE has just released the results of its animal welfare policy survey, and it was a close run thing for some parties. For last place that is.
SAFE campaign director Hans Kriek, who organised the survey, said the results are disappointing. “The two main parties were simply not interested. Neither Labour or National completed the survey but National did send a brief position statement,” says Hans.
The results are:
- Act 0 out of 10
- Greens 9 out of 10
- Labour 0 out of 10
- Maori Party 3 out of 10
- National 1 out of 10
- Progressive 0 out of 10
- United Future 5 out of 10
- New Zealand First not listed
The Green Party was also the only political party with a comprehensive animal welfare policy. The Greens would support the appointment of a Commissioner for Animals; implement labelling of animal-based products; and ban dolphins in captivity, intensive farming practices, the live-export trade, genetic modification of animals, and animal research that results in severe or very severe suffering.
The 1 missing point must have been our lack of policy on banning exotic circus animals.
Published in Environment & Resource Management | Society & Culture by frog on Wed, October 15th, 2008
Tags: , animal welfare, Commissioner for Animals, SAFE
on the trolls and those who are unable to keep on topic
big bro – this should interest you a good deal, in light of the questions you posed on animal welfare.
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Of course it is of interest to me, animal welfare is my number one concern.
However I want action, not words.
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Better make it happen then.
You can save some animals with 6 MPs, but you could save more with 10.
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Dangermoose – here’s the first of those ten MPs you might want to see back in Parly. Others might have different animal priorities though?
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Really?
You have has six MP’s for a while now and managed to precisely nothing so far.
Make it a bottom line and you have my votes.
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Frog – love that article and have since the day it was published! Disturbing though, that our southern ‘great white hunter’ has been writing environment policy for National. big bro – maybe Eric’s the man for you!
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Action – not talky-talk – required, Greens.
Else it’s only true to say the Greens spout more hot air about animal rights than the other parties.
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A ridiculous statment BP. But at least big bro has said what “action” he wants. What about you?
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BP is right Valis
The Greens have done nothing for animal welfare apart from use the issue to gain votes.
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You accuse us of doing this for cynical reasons only. The same could be said of any policy goals we haven’t yet achieved. The most you can credibly say is that this issue has not been as high on our agenda than other issues (which is different than saying we’d have achieved it if this weren’t the case). To imply further is unfair conjecture that you can in no way substantiate.
I don’t see why this is necessary. I really don’t mind that you have different political views to mine, even when you come across as neanderthal in my view. I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t interested in debate. But I will not accept this sort of character assassination.
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>>A ridiculous statment BP. But at least big bro has said what “action” he wants. What about you?
I would have thought that was self-evident.
Actions, not words. Meaning make the policy a non-negotiable bargaining chip.
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“Meaning make the policy a non-negotiable bargaining chip.”
up until now no one has needed to bargain with the green party. if they get enough votes to make any kind of bottom line conditions it will be great but it’s a chicken and egg argument.
if you don’t vote green you can be guaranteed that no progress will be made on these issues. if they have enough MPs and parliamentary resources they can.
the green’s champion a lot of issues that many consider fringe, but they are the only party that does so in most cases (at least the only party to make it over the 5% line). if you won’t vote for them you can’t complain when they don’t have the numbers needed to be effective in parliament. the more the better.
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The problem is that, while a lot of people strongly agree with some of these animal welfare policies, they are repelled by your Marxist authoritarianism.
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big bro – do you suppose that, given a sizeable increase in the number of Green MPs in parliament (even better, in Government) there would be an equivalent increase in the chances of action on animal welfare? If you do, then give your vote to the Greens. They’ll put it to better use, as far as animal welfare is concerned, than any other party (by a long shot)
(Party vote that is BB)
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Wat
We have an underlying suspicion of Economists, Lawyers, Banks, Big-Business and Governments. Overall I would say you match that pretty well except for the “Big-Business” node. We are not Libertarians because we see a purpose to government beyond catching thieves and preventing foreign invasions, but to accuse us of Marxism is simply wrong.
respectfully
BJ
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“up until now no one has needed to bargain with the green party. ”
How about Labour in 2005?
I don’t remember the Greens making any demands about animal welfare then. If they had, Labour would probably have at least insisted that the recommendations of Regulations Review Committee on battery cages were implemented, considering that all the labour (and National) MPs agreed with it. Labour don’t really care either way and just keep the status quo out of inertia, but for the Greens it is a key policy.
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Valis
Stop being so precious, and dare I say it stop being so naive.
Of course the Greens exploit those of us who have a passion for animal welfare, who else are they going to vote for if not the Greens?
The very reason Animal welfare is not high on the list for your MP’s is because no other party is ever going to do something about it.
If there was another party that took it up as an election platform then I can guarantee that it would all of a sudden become a bottom line issue for the Greens.
You are right about it not being high on the agenda, that is the very reason I will not be conned again by the Green party “well we just did not have the numbers” rubbish.
Do you really think that Animal Welfare is high on the list of priorities for Sue B or Keith?, of course not.
You need to wake up, despite your passionate support for your party you have no right at all to claim the moral high ground, the Greens have shown themselves to be no better than the rest when it comes to morals and ethics.
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Achievements on Animal Rights:
National: 0
Labour: 0
Maori: 0
Act: 0
NZ First: 0
Dunne: 0
Greens : Big, fat 0
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come off it valis..
..the greens have done diddly squat for animal welfare..
in nine years..
..i mean..are they still holding those green party bbq’s..?
..possum skin raffles..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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We are not Libertarians because we see a purpose to government beyond catching thieves and preventing foreign invasions, but to accuse us of Marxism is simply wrong.
…………………….
Is Trevor Loudon wrong to call the Kotare school a “Marxist training school”? +
So why are the Greens civil libertarians?
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Re civil liberty’s, I equate them with a police force that stays in the back ground while people get away with a lot of minor crime (smashng bottles breaking letter boxes, loud music etc)
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big bro – a question just occured to me, in light of your passion for animal welfare – what have you achieved in that field? Surely you will have liberated sheds of battery hens and pigs, saved a Kaimanawa horse, an Auckland island pig, an Enderby rabbit or released a thousand magpies from their traps? I’d love to hear your story.
Cheers.
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jh said: Is Trevor Loudon wrong to call the Kotare school a “Marxist training school”?
Trevor Louden is completely wrong in almost everything he blogs. He is a conspiracy theorist who has even less credibility than Ian Wishart. Louden sees a red under every bed.
I know the Kotare centre very well, and have participated in a number of workshops there. Some of the Trustees and trainers at Kotare are very committed Christians, funnily enough. Do you really think Christians would have anything to do with a “Marxist training school” jh?
Anyway, what has this got to do with Animal Welfare? Just a threadjack I suspect!
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BluePeter and big bro, I can respect a reasonable debate. I’ve admitted that we’ve not put this high on our list of demands and its fine to criticise this (though not entirely consistent since you usually get on our case for any cause not strictly environmental).
The rest is just crap.
Sue Kedgley has done as much as anyone in the country to raise awareness of the battery cage issue. This is important in building support for a cause and not a big fat zero.
“Do you really think that Animal Welfare is high on the list of priorities for Sue B or Keith?, of course not.”
Yes, of course not and I’ve never said that. Different people have different causes, as is the case in every party. How could you think otherwise?
“You need to wake up, despite your passionate support for your party you have no right at all to claim the moral high ground, the Greens have shown themselves to be no better than the rest when it comes to morals and ethics.”
And of course, big bro, you’ve offered nothing to substantiate that Sue K’s efforts were insincere. This is because you have nothing to offer, only conjecture. Its beneath you to do so, or should be.
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The thread was a follow on from what BJ said : “but to accuse us of Marxism is simply wrong. ” .
Trevour Loudon may be a conspiracy theorist but he isn’t always wrong and Christians often adopt radical positions where they support radical social change of one form or another.
When a Reverend lends support to people (allegedly) training to commit terrorist acts that’s a bit suspect. Perhaps he’s saying I support your cause (Maori separatism) but not your methods. Denying there was anything too it all (given the evidence) is another matter.
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I hope bj is right that they Greens aren’t dominated by one view point (ecosocialist).
Still haven’t heard why the Greens have strong civil libertarian values (I’m asking as someone who believes that due to an increasing feeling in the community that a lack of firm action by the authorities is making us cower in our own communities, people are discovering vigilantiism and the empowering feeling it brings).
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“A member of the Green Party told me they don’t know anyone who voted for Bradford. It appears that she has got herself voted almost to the top of the Green Party list by getting her Maoist friends and allies to join the Green Party so they could vote for her, while the majority of Green Party members are quietly appalled by some of her policies. I would love to know who Bradford’s allies within the party are…”
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jh, of course the utopian watermelons are just social engineering – control freak communists in disguise. How could ANYBODY be silly enough to vote for these two faced creeps is beyond my comprehension!
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d4j – that’s a trip that wouldn’t take long!
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If New Zealanders cannot see you slimy twisted greens for what you really are then it will be to their detriment in the long run. Bullshitters always get caught out, splat greenfly !
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Where did that comment disappear to? Oh that’s right , greens can’t handle criticism.
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Frogblog where comment censorship and log in problems abound. The greens cannot fight the good fight!!
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The Greens can face criticism D4J what they should not have to put up with is mindless abuse from the likes of you.
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big bro, your opinion means swat to me, wonder if you so mouthy face to face?
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morning big bro – nice comment! have you time to look at answering my question about animal welfare? Just wanted to know what you have done to save/protect them yourself. My question is on the Animal Welfare thread.
Cheers
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To get back to animal welfare, yes Sue Kedgley has done a great deal for animals, she has 2 private members bills in the house, she has asked a number of parliamentary questions on the subject and she got herself seconded to the Regulations Review Committee that decided that battery cages had to go. No arguments there.
But she does not seem to have much backing from the rest of the party. I personally voted for her at the top of the party list because of her stand for the animals. But others don’t seem to place her very high.
I can’t judge what BB has done for animals. As far as I can tell from his posts he supports hunting and fishing but does not eat factory farmed meat. So he is not a complete vegan, but in comparison with the vast majority of New Zealanders who have no thought at all about what they are eating, he is dong a great deal in preventing animal suffering. The first and best thing all of us can do to make a stand against factory farmers is stop giving them money by buying their product.
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# dad4justice Says:
October 16th, 2008 at 7:49 am
big bro, your opinion means swat to me, wonder if you so mouthy face to face?
………….
Jeez Dad, ever wondered where the marital problems arise from?
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Back to animal welfare, why don’t the greens help stop 1080, which is rapidly killing our Native wildlife?
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Valis
I have never doubted Sue K’s credentials when it comes to Animal Welfare, if only all of the Greens shared her passion we might have seen something done about it.
I said that Sue B and Keith do not place Animal Welfare high on their list of priorities, you agreed with me.
While Sue B’s words and support for Animal Welfare are laudable the fact remains that she has still not done ANYTHING about it, its no different to the words of Helen Clark re carbon emissions, its all well and good for Clark to say she wants to be carbon neutral but as we both know she has done nothing about it.
If you are going to be consistent then you must damn Sue K for her Animal Welfare inaction as quickly as you damn Clark for her inaction surrounding carbon neutrality, you cannot have it both ways.
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“.I would love to know who Bradford’s allies within the party are…”
perhaps how far off the mark you are is indicated by the fact bradford is one of the most respected mp’s in parliament..
..respected by politicians of all stripe..
and..d4j..
..do you dream/have nightmares..about watermelons..?
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Greenfly
“big bro – a question just occured to me, in light of your passion for animal welfare – what have you achieved in that field? Surely you will have liberated sheds of battery hens and pigs, saved a Kaimanawa horse, an Auckland island pig, an Enderby rabbit or released a thousand magpies from their traps? I’d love to hear your story.
Cheers.”
Not much of a story to tell really Greenfly, my participation is financial and anonymous but you can be assured that it is not insignificant relative to my income.
The only direct action I have ever taken resulted in an appearance in court for assault, while I am not proud of what I did it is something that I would do again in a heartbeat if faced with a similar situation.
My long term plans include an animal shelter and a home for so called “vicious dogs”, I am not sure if you are familiar with the work of Cesar Millan but I hope to mirror his achievements in NZ.
I am not sure if you would classify any of that as an achievement, you may well have gathered that I am not really the shouting yelling protester type, I have only protested once in my life and while it was a worthwhile cause it was far from an exhilarating experience.
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D4J
“big bro, your opinion means swat to me, wonder if you so mouthy face to face?”
Anger issue’s D4J?
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Doesn’t answer this though phil:
“It appears that she has got herself voted almost to the top of the Green Party list by getting her Maoist friends and allies to join the Green Party so they could vote for her, while the majority of Green Party members are quietly appalled by some of her policies.”
I respect the left when they stand under a left-wing banner not under an environmental one. It is an accepted lexicon that “green” refers to the biosphere.
The main thrust of the Green Party should be towards a steady state economy and I wonder how Sues welfarism would sit in that model (a demographic who can least afford having the most children).
We do not see the Green Party engine we get palmed off with the Green Chater. The most valid representation of the Green Parties behavior is an anti- capitalist Eco Socialist model.
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Kiore1
“I can’t judge what BB has done for animals. As far as I can tell from his posts he supports hunting and fishing but does not eat factory farmed meat. So he is not a complete vegan”
I detest hunting, it makes me sick to hear those idiots call it a sport.
Fishing is something that I have done and enjoy doing, I am however a catch and release man.
My partner is doing her best to turn me into a vegetarian however I do enjoy meat, my stance on this is that it must be home kill or organically/free range farmed.
I believe that all farmed animals have a right to a quick, painless and most importantly an unexpected death, anybody who has witnessed the terror animals experience at meat works would know why I am so keen on the unexpected death part.
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“Anger issue’s D4J?”
Haha what a drop kick big bro. What a cowardly thing to say. What a pathetic joke you are. Got small dick issues?
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On this thread one is getting the sense of an eerie commaradie between two traditionally opposites on the political continuum, namely BB and Phil
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thanks big bro – that’s really encouraging. I’m going to look at Cesar Millan when I get the chance. I can easily accept that you haven’t yet achieved all that you want to for animals and their welfare, but are sincere in your efforts and plans. Can you see that this might be the case with the Green Party? They clearly are the most like you, in their outspokeness on the issue, they have fronted up to many of these abusive situations and are hampered by similar constraints as yourself, even to the point of being criticised for not being vegans who don’t eat animals or buddhists who wouldn’t swat a (green) fly. I wonder why you, who regard animal welfare so highly, wouldn’t vote for the Greens on that issue alone. What are you giving your vote to? Better taxes? btw – if you regard the abusive and snarky d4j as a disfunctional puppy with little brain, it’s much easier to be sympathetic to his plight
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“perhaps how far off the mark you are is indicated by the fact bradford is one of the most respected mp’s in parliament..
..respected by politicians of all stripe..”
In the same vein John Minto would command a lot of respect if he made it to Parliament.
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Greenfly
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/
The question as to why I would not vote for the Greens on that issue is an easy one to answer, six years of inactivity.
As I have said previously the rhetoric is laudable the actions are nonexistent, it is not good enough for the Greens to claim a lack of numbers as the reason for their lack of success when you see the other legislation the Greens have managed to push through the house.
I want to see Animal welfare as a bottom line, I cannot vote for the Greens in the hope that they MIGHT do something about it given that Jeanette’s replacement is likely to be Sue Bradford.
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bb..
how about you tell us about the animal welfare policies of your beloved rightwing parties…?
(cue long silence..tumbling tumbleweeds..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
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big bro – accepted, but you could vote for the Greens because they are the only party that ever could or would do something about it. Do you think National are going to focus on the welfare of farm animals or that it has even crossed an Act MP’s mind? United Future’s Hunting and Fishing lobby has scampered to the Nats to rally behind the great moosehunting Eric Roy’s of the party and who else.. the Maori party, hey, maybe, but then there is that cultural harvest thing, the albatross and the godwits. Complex business, animal welfare. I’m a beekeeper, does that make me an oppressor of animals? I think also, your presumption about Jeanette and her successor is a bit of kite flying. I don’t see that as ‘given’ at all
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Hey big bro,
How did you witness that?? They don’t exactly give tours…
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Philu
Are you trying to start a flame war?, have they banned you from Kiwiblog?
I have NEVER defended the inaction of the Nat’s or ACT on this issue, I have always been of the opinion that they will not do anything about animal welfare.
Apart from John Banks I have never heard one Nat MP (current or former) talk about animal welfare.
So what was the point of your question Phil if not to start a flame war?
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StephenR
They do when you start your working life as a butcher…
That was enough for me I can tell you.
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Also,
Is being organically/free range farmed a guarantee that they don’t get the same slaughterhouse experience as conventionally farmed animals? Maybe your particular brand is, I don’t know.
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Stephen
“Is being organically/free range farmed a guarantee that they don’t get the same slaughterhouse experience as conventionally farmed animals? Maybe your particular brand is, I don’t know.”
Nor do I, one would hope that is not the case but I cannot guarantee it.
I guess I take solace from the knowledge that the poor sods did not live their lives in a cage.
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Greenfly
I will vote for the Greens as soon as they tell me Animal Welfare will be a bottom line issue.
As you well know this is the only thing that I agree with the Greens on.
I simply could not vote for them in the hope that they MIGHT do something as the rest of your manifesto is abhorrent to me.
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Well if you’re a beef eater, neither conventional nor organic etc live in cages in the first place, so they may both experience the same amount of terror! I think, however that the ‘alternative’ producers would be more willing to answer questions about their slaughter practices than the conventional ones.
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StephenR
I only “home kill” beef and pork, while I could never sit up close to watch the event I have been assured by those who have that the animals have no idea at all what is about to happen.
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Surely, big bro, you side with the Greens on other issues. How about their opposition to the use of endosulphan, a worm killing chemical? That’s a lot of carnage caused to worms (one of the most useful creatures on and under the earth) by this stupid practice, all in the name of sport. Do you side with us on that? there are no other parties calling for the end to that idiotic practice. Where do you stand?
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Greenfly
My second passion is cricket, if an over abundance of worms harms the playing surface then as far as I am concerned it is a case of…spray baby spray!
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How about the plight of our freshwater fishes, big bro? Are you for preserving their habitat, as Metiria has been promoting as she travelled the country on her “Eel tour” or do you not care for the welfare of creatures that live in the water? How about the native galaxid fishes suffering the same agonies as the eels through ruined habitat and greedy overfishing? Are you with us on that or don’t you care? The Greens and their MPs do a great deal more than just lay down impossible to achieve bottom lines in parliament. Remember how well the chicken cage challenge went. Those powerful vested interests can put pay to bottom lines pretty effectively. Solving the problem from the other end is often the best way and you know the Green MPs are doing just that.
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You suckered me big bro – I thought you were serious about animal welfare! More fool me. I retire, dismayed!
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Greenfly
I originally voted for the Greens because like Russ I want clean rivers and lakes, I also thought it was a given that they and they alone would do something about animal welfare.
I am also not sure why you would say I was not serious about animal welfare other than you are disappointed that you could not convince me to vote for the more socialist issues favoured by the Greens simply because I want to see and end to battery hens and pigs in crates.
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“..I guess I take solace from the knowledge that the poor sods did not live their lives in a cage..”
do you take that ‘solace’..as you chew on them..?
..and as you spend so much time here..on that particular issue..
..yet you are a rabid rightie..
..who’se parties don’t even pay lip service to animal welfare..
..do you do any conciousness-raising in those quarters..?
.or do you save it all for here..?
..and your ‘straw-man’ arguments of ‘i could never vote for the greens..untill they..etc etc..’
..are just a pile of horsesh*t really..
..eh..?
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Phool
The day I start to be concerned about what a DPB bludgers thinks about me is the day I will jump in front of a bus.
Given the way you have been “outed” as a fake and a fraud re your educational qualifications I would have thought you might be the least qualified person to pass judgment on anybodies stance on this or any other issue.
BTW, the offer of a job is still open Phool, you can even have school holidays off as you seem to think that is some type of justification for your continuing theft of tax payer dollars.
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“The Greens can face criticism D4J what they should not have to put up with is mindless abuse from the likes of you.”
Before responding to anything else, I just want to say thanks to big bro for this defence! Much appreciated.
kiore1 said:
“But she does not seem to have much backing from the rest of the party. I personally voted for her at the top of the party list because of her stand for the animals. But others don’t seem to place her very high.”
Sue K is currently 4th on the list. After the co-leaders that means only one person is higher. This is hardly being hard done by. On the new list she is 5th, with Metiria shifting to 4th. Its hard to say why, possibly due to Metiria’s being likely to stand for female co-leader when Jeanette retires.
big bro said:
“I have never doubted Sue K’s credentials when it comes to Animal Welfare, if only all of the Greens shared her passion we might have seen something done about it.”
Glad to hear you acknowledge this.
“I said that Sue B and Keith do not place Animal Welfare high on their list of priorities, you agreed with me.”
True, but do note that they support Sue’s legislation without hesitation, which can’t be said of most MPs in the House. This is an entirely uncontroversial issue in the Green Caucus. If we were government, battery cages would be gone by lunchtime. As we have no chance to get more than a tiny bit of our programme through, far too much that’d we’d love to do doesn’t get the attention it deserves. Even having said that, animal welfare has had plenty effort put into it. As kiore1 says:
“… yes Sue Kedgley has done a great deal for animals, she has 2 private members bills in the house, she has asked a number of parliamentary questions on the subject and she got herself seconded to the Regulations Review Committee that decided that battery cages had to go. No arguments there.”
“While Sue B’s words and support for Animal Welfare are laudable the fact remains that she has still not done ANYTHING about it,..”
You mean Sue K. I just don’t see how you can acknowledge her efforts in one breath and insist in the next that she hasn’t done ANYTHING. This is not rational. If you mean she has had no success that has had an effect on the plight of chickens, fine, but one day battery cages will be banned and Sue’s past and future activity will be a big part of why. That is hardly nothing.
“..its no different to the words of Helen Clark re carbon emissions, its all well and good for Clark to say she wants to be carbon neutral but as we both know she has done nothing about it.”
You’re very black in white aren’t you. I don’t deal in such absolutes unless there is good proof. Clark has done very little, but not nothing. And already more than the Nats will ever do I might add.
“If you are going to be consistent then you must damn Sue K for her Animal Welfare inaction as quickly as you damn Clark for her inaction surrounding carbon neutrality, you cannot have it both ways.”
First, neither have been inactive. Second, Sue K has been WAY more active than Helen on these respective issues. Third, Helen has WAY more power, if you hadn’t noticed. It would be entirely *inconsistent* to treat them exactly the same.
“I am not sure if you would classify any of that as an achievement, you may well have gathered that I am not really the shouting yelling protester type, I have only protested once in my life and while it was a worthwhile cause it was far from an exhilarating experience.”
Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of there. Well done.
greenfly said:
“wonder why you, who regard animal welfare so highly, wouldn’t vote for the Greens on that issue alone.”
I for one have never been able to vote on single issues. Though an environmentalist, I even rejected the Green Party overseas in the 80′s, because I wrongly thought they didn’t care about anything else! So I wouldn’t expect big bro to do this unless perhaps there was the rock solid guarantee that it would result in the goal he wants.
big bro said:
“I want to see Animal welfare as a bottom line, I cannot vote for the Greens in the hope that they MIGHT do something about it given that Jeanette’s replacement is likely to be Sue Bradford.”
Sue and Metiria seem both likely to stand. I haven’t heard anyone in the Party say one or the other is a shoo in.
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> I detest hunting, it makes me sick to hear those idiots call it a sport.
It makes me sick to hear people call hunting a sport, too, but I would have thought it has animal welfare advantages as a means of getting food. Surely a duck that gets hit and killed by a bullet in midair goes through much less distress than a hen that gets trucked to a slaughterhouse and lined up on a conveyor belt to wait to have its throat cut.
> Fishing is something that I have done and enjoy doing, I am however a catch and release man.
Being caught with a hook through your mouth must be much more painful and distressing than being felled by a bullet. And if the fish is just being released back into the river to die slowly from the injury to its mouth, it can’t even be justified as being a source of food.
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kahikatea – surely a duck etc… sure, if it is killed outright. Many aren’t. A body full of steel shot and a long bleeding soak in a pond hasn’t much to recommend it. Do you want to hear about paua? Now there’s a sorry tale (clue – they can’t coagulate)
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bjchip,
-”We have an underlying suspicion of Economists, Lawyers, Banks, Big-Business and Governments.”
You really do flatter yourself. The contents of this blog consists in the main of perpetual planning for still more state involvement and control over every aspect of our lives.
As for economists, I’d say “complete ignorance” rather than “suspicion” is nearer the mark.
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greenfly Says:
October 16th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
> kahikatea – surely a duck etc… sure, if it is killed outright. Many aren’t.
thanks, I didn’t know that.
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RE Sue B’s place on the list – the entire membership had the opportunity to rank the list (secret ballot). She came in at number three – that is a lot of friends and allies.
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Janine
Since when do the Greens take notice of the list anyway?
From memory you had no problem rorting the list to get Russ into the house.
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Speaking of Sue B, she seems to have an extremely low profile this campaign.
Are you guys keeping her away from the press lest the public are reminded who it was who made criminals out of perfectly good parents?
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“RE Sue B’s place on the list”
Who ensured the count was fair?
What are the membership numbers?
How does Sue Bradfords popularity in the Green Party compare to the wider electorate?
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I should add that I can appreciate how Sue Bradford would be popular with a left-wing party but I can’t imagine that translating to the general green population.
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Ahem, wasn’t a certain Big-someone just listening to Bradford on the radio?
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jh said: Who ensured the count was fair?
A committee of Green Party members appointed by the Green Party Executive (which no MPs have a vote on), but in which Janine (posting above) took a leading role.
And the commitee did not include any candidates (just to get that issue cleared up before the accusation is, without any evidence, made).
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Oh big bro, you were doing so well engaging in reasonable debate. I’m so sorry to see it end. Why fall off the wagon now, particularly with the same old sh*t we’ve long ago exposed as such?
“Since when do the Greens take notice of the list anyway? From memory you had no problem rorting the list to get Russ into the house.”
Though Russel was at 9 on the 2005 list, he is at 2 on the current list. To bring in someone before him on the old list for a few months, only to be replaced by him at the election is absurd. Once Nandor decided to go, this was the only realistic option and you’d probably have been among those pointing out just how stupid we were if we’d done otherwise. Number 7 was very keen to step aside to let Russel in. Number 8 was not at first, but came around when the media and other members let him know what they thought of his stance. And this whole situation only came about due to the untimely death of Rod Donald.
“Are you guys keeping her away from the press lest the public are reminded who it was who made criminals out of perfectly good parents?”
What we and about 100 other MPs including the National Party did, only affected people who were already on trial for assaulting children with things like pieces of wood and hose pipes. Repealing the s59 loop hole made it less likely that they would get off scott free after such violence against children. Why is it ok for them to do so? What about them do you see as perfectly good parents?
Of course, you know all this as we’ve been round this circle at least half a dozen times in the last few months. At this point you usually stop responding. It seems like you’re just waiting until you think we’ve forgot and they try to slip your cheap shots in. Very high minded of you. I expect we’ll be hearing the same tired lies about Keith and Pol Pot next.
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Just as predicted.
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